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Elric VIII
2011-03-19, 04:38 AM
My character has been put into an odd position and I am having trouble thinking of a good option to resolve it before my next session.

Here's a bit of backstory:

My character is a Cleric/Fighter/Bone Knight and I am LN. I am a strict adherant to my own personal code of honor, such as upholding my oaths and not taking advantage of the innocent.

My actions lean toward LG (or at least I try to make it that way) but I use evil means to achieve them. I control hoards of undead (including a conveniently placed Purple Worm that the party found trapped under a fallen building) and I am currently using them to protect an innocent town from Lizard-people attacks.

My character is rather ruthless toward anyone that impinges upon his honor or threatens his charges or allies. While I will not compromise my values, my character tends to act with bitterness toward Good-aligned characters, but does not act against them.

I am parleying my resentment/bitterness into meaning that I truly dedicate myself to Law (not necissarily the laws).

The Situation:

In keeping with my undead-are-a-means-to-an-end outlook, I wield the weapon Lifedrinker (DMG 227). I am immune to energy drain, like an undead.

Apparently, I have been offending the gods of Evil with my blatant disregard of the "price" of using such a weapon. They have been collecting upon this in the form of exp drain. Upon casting a Commune spell...

Which I was almost unable to do after I left my character in the hands of my party when I had to leave for a while. They just kept full attacking with it, rather than using my 12th level Cleric casting or any of the various wands/trinkets I had on me. This level drained me to within 1000 exp of having a CL of 8.

...I was told by the mass of Evil gods that I was to destroy an artifact that represented the shakey unity of a triad of Good gods. The destruction of said artifact would most likely cause the Good gods to no longer honor their alliance and would shift the balance of power toward Evil.

I have not had a chance to Commune with the Good gods yet, and I do not know IC how to destroy the item, although my DM gloated just enough for me to puzzle it out OOC.


The Decision:

Now, so far I have been presented with the choice of destroying the artifact or preserving it.

I am a melee Cleric and it is a longbow (so I can't even use it while mounted). However, I have been promised "great power" in return for my service, otherwise I will continue to be punished for using the weapon.

Here's the problem, destroying it is a completely Evil act, and protecting it is a very Good act. While my character acts Good, he is not actually Good; it is just a side effect of his original indoctrination. I want my character to puzzle out something to do that is niether protecting nor destroying the artifact.

My Idea:

My first idea is to somehow warp the item into an object of Law. I would especially love something that gives me a few extra CL when I cast Dictum on my Chaotic Stupid party
(the other 4 guys are Chaotic so that they can be murderous hobos, with the exception of the Sorcerer who is played excelently as a bumbling magical dunce).

I have no clue about any actual precedent for altering artifacts, so any help there would be apreciated.

I would also be open to other suggestions that are a bit out of the ordinary.

Thank you.

PetterTomBos
2011-03-19, 04:42 AM
Which I was almost unable to do after I left my character in the hands of my party when I had to leave for a while. They just kept full attacking with it, rather than using my 12th level Cleric casting or any of the various wands/trinkets I had on me. This level drained me to within 1000 exp of having a CL of 8.


I, as a DM, wouldn't have allowed them to. That's be like having your character use XP to make heaps of maic items, before giving them to the rest of the party.

DragonOfUndeath
2011-03-19, 04:43 AM
I, as a DM, wouldn't have allowed them to. That's be like having your character use XP to make heaps of maic items, before giving them to the rest of the party.

Except it seems more of a case of Stupid Controlling than Greedy Controlling
Not using the Cleric casting or Magic Items is a stupid move, not a greedy move.

Toliudar
2011-03-19, 10:33 AM
If the object is in some way emblematic of a union of three Good gods, I don't see how it could be transformed into an object of Law and still fulfill its purpose. Might it not have the same impact as destroying the artifact?

You might need to parse the character's desires - which seem to lean towards the cause of good, albeit in a grumbly and justify-the-means way - from the player's desires - a more powerful character who can better make the other PC's toe your line. Once you know which of these is more important to you, I'm sure you'll figure out ways to justify the decision.

zorba1994
2011-03-19, 10:34 AM
Honestly, you can justify either of the decisions: Protecting it means upholding a standing argument between parties, destroying it means following orders to achieve greater power to further spread laws.

However, subverting the nature of the artifact would probably be chaotic IMO, as it is basically lying to your evil god "employers".


I would probably go for defending it (upholding an existing treaty ≥ doing something to gain extra powers in the future on the lawful scale), but as I said, destroying it can be easily justified.

KingFlameHawk
2011-03-19, 10:54 AM
From what I can see your character uses evil methods to achieve good goals. So is there any good that could come out of destroying the artifact. You said your character is a strict follower of a personal code of honor and follow your oaths and don't hurt innocents. Now I don't actually think you made an oath to the Evil gods and the destruction of the artifact would seem to put a lot of innocents in danger so based on that it would seem the lawful thing to do would be to protect the artifact as it is what your code of honor would do. Also you said that destroying it would shift the balance to evil and I think that a Lawful Neutral would be for perserving the balance.

Elric VIII
2011-03-19, 11:08 AM
If the object is in some way emblematic of a union of three Good gods, I don't see how it could be transformed into an object of Law and still fulfill its purpose. Might it not have the same impact as destroying the artifact?

You might need to parse the character's desires - which seem to lean towards the cause of good, albeit in a grumbly and justify-the-means way - from the player's desires - a more powerful character who can better make the other PC's toe your line. Once you know which of these is more important to you, I'm sure you'll figure out ways to justify the decision.

Hence my conundrum.


Honestly, you can justify either of the decisions: Protecting it means upholding a standing argument between parties, destroying it means following orders to achieve greater power to further spread laws.

However, subverting the nature of the artifact would probably be chaotic IMO, as it is basically lying to you evil god "employers".


I would probably go for defending it (upholding an existing treaty ≥ doing something to gain extra powers in the future on the lawful scale), but as I said, destroying it can be easily justified.

This is a good point.


From what I can see your character uses evil methods to achieve good goals. So is there any good that could come out of destroying the artifact. You said your character is a strict follower of a personal code of honor and follow your oaths and don't hurt innocents. Now I don't actually think you made an oath to the Evil gods and the destruction of the artifact would seem to put a lot of innocents in danger so based on that it would seem the lawful thing to do would be to protect the artifact as it is what your code of honor would do. Also you said that destroying it would shift the balance to evil and I think that a Lawful Neutral would be for perserving the balance.

I was hoping to figure out some way to compromise between the two options. To be honest, I believe my DM thinks that I am going to follow the path of evil in order to gain more power, so I don't want to render his attempt at a side quest useless preparation. I'm lucky I'm not a Paladin, since this almost seems like a sitation to make me accidentally fall. It's a choice between weakening myself and losing my power completely.



One thing that I forgot to mention is that only the Rogue suspects something about my motivations regarding the artifact, and he wants to keep it to use himself. Perhaps there's some type of spell that may be used to preserve the item and protect it?

Elric VIII
2011-03-19, 06:01 PM
Something that I was thinking about was arbitrating a new alliance between the three good gods and then entering into a contract with the evil gods that exchanges the artifacts destruction for power.

My only concern is that this seems rather deceitful, and while I am not entirely dedicated to truth (other than any promises that I explicitly make), making misleading deals is skirting the edge.

Connington
2011-03-19, 07:43 PM
So you want power, you don't want to break the object, but you know (OOC) how to do so?

Acquire In Character knowledge of how to destroy the artifact. Then contact the three good gods, inform them that you can protect their super important artifact in return for protection from the negative effects of Lifedrinker, or some other boon. If your'e feeling bold, threaten to break it, and extort them. Either way, you do a good deed, don't look like a goody two shoes, avoid weakening your character, and get to carry on with your life

Toofey
2011-03-19, 08:32 PM
If you're LN and you have a contract you have a contract. I would say if you even agreed to it in passing and then didn't you could lose all powers related to your alignment.

If I were your dm I would be straight up umm.... well something or othering you with this right now. It sounds like if you're truly LN you should do it, Or you can choose to tank the XP and make yourself LG, I'm sure some of the good gods would take you in if they knew you placed good over law and screwed over the evil guys, of course they'll probably want you to destroy the evil thing you can actually use.

dps
2011-03-19, 09:33 PM
If you're LN and you have a contract you have a contract. I would say if you even agreed to it in passing and then didn't you could lose all powers related to your alignment.


It's unclear to me that he entered into any contract. I do think, though, that the circumstances under which it came into his possession may have some bearing on what might be a lawful resolution. Elric VIII, care to elaborate on this point?

Elric VIII
2011-03-19, 09:49 PM
So you want power, you don't want to break the object, but you know (OOC) how to do so?

Acquire In Character knowledge of how to destroy the artifact. Then contact the three good gods, inform them that you can protect their super important artifact in return for protection from the negative effects of Lifedrinker, or some other boon. If your'e feeling bold, threaten to break it, and extort them. Either way, you do a good deed, don't look like a goody two shoes, avoid weakening your character, and get to carry on with your life

I like this, it says I'm willing to do the right thing, but for my own reasons.


If you're LN and you have a contract you have a contract. I would say if you even agreed to it in passing and then didn't you could lose all powers related to your alignment.

If I were your dm I would be straight up umm.... well something or othering you with this right now. It sounds like if you're truly LN you should do it, Or you can choose to tank the XP and make yourself LG, I'm sure some of the good gods would take you in if they knew you placed good over law and screwed over the evil guys, of course they'll probably want you to destroy the evil thing you can actually use.

I never agreed to anything, I cast Commune and asked the question about the exp drain, it doesn't really allow a conversation. I was given an ultimatum.


It's unclear to me that he entered into any contract. I do think, though, that the circumstances under which it came into his possession may have some bearing on what might be a lawful resolution. Elric VIII, care to elaborate on this point?

As I said above, it was an ultimatum. what happened was we rested for the day, having recently acquired the artifact (although we did not know it at that time), and I cast Commune. I asked my question and my DM read a speech, then we had to go. The spell doesn't really allow for a conversation, so I never had a chance to make an agreement.

Toofey
2011-03-19, 10:13 PM
Then I would say you have the option of not destroying the good artifact, but if I were DM I would say that would mean not using the evil item further.

Thing is, it sounds like you want to be playing a LG character or you would just do it.

Callista
2011-03-20, 01:23 AM
Is it at all possible for you to set up a way for the Good and Evil deities to negotiate and work out what your character will do with the artifact?

Your character believes in being honorable and orderly, right? So it seems that rather than betray either side, he would want to bring them into agreement and be up-front with his dilemma, being honest with both sides and hopefully striking a balance.

It will, of course, put you squarely between two feuding groups of gods. Nothing is guaranteed when that happens.

Elric VIII
2011-03-20, 12:46 PM
Then I would say you have the option of not destroying the good artifact, but if I were DM I would say that would mean not using the evil item further.

Thing is, it sounds like you want to be playing a LG character or you would just do it.

That's the idea, my character acts LG, but uses evil means to achieve his goals (undead, evil spells, torture of known evil people). Since I'm a Cleric I can't be LG, due to the fact that I use spells with the [Evil] descriptor. However, my character has established a bit of animosity with the various Good clergies.


Is it at all possible for you to set up a way for the Good and Evil deities to negotiate and work out what your character will do with the artifact?

Your character believes in being honorable and orderly, right? So it seems that rather than betray either side, he would want to bring them into agreement and be up-front with his dilemma, being honest with both sides and hopefully striking a balance.

It will, of course, put you squarely between two feuding groups of gods. Nothing is guaranteed when that happens.

My fear with this approach is that it may end up with the various gods asking my to become a double agent or it would require me to play them off one another.

Is there some sort of God Conference Call spell that I could use to set up a meeting?

erikun
2011-03-20, 02:58 PM
I haven't read all the responses, but from the first post, this is my impression:


Your character is Lawful Neutral, favoring Law (the ideal) over either Good or Evil. Your character does not concern himself (herself?) with Good/Evil morality, as opposed to someone who actively tries to balance the two.
Your character is being blackmailed by the Evil gods. The Lifedrinker sword is not theirs and they have no control over it, but they will keep sending enemies at you as long as you don't follow their demands.
Your character hasn't had the chance to contact the Good gods.
Your character has the Good god MacGuffin in their possesion.
You are trying to decide which action is the Lawful one to choose.

Based on what I know, neither choice is lawful. While your character is bitter to good-aligned folk, that doesn't immediately make him evil (or else, he'd be evil) and so doesn't have a good reason for breaking the MacGuffin. And as he is not evil, he doesn't have a good reason for doing what the evil gods tell him to (beyond extortion).

It looks like your character's best option is to see what decision is in his best interests, both in his health and upholding his oaths. Following the evil gods would prevent him from getting attacked by evil agents, but might get him attacked by good agents. Helping the good gods might get him a number of strong allies against the constant evil threat, but those same allies might object or turn on him due to his methods. Assisting the evil gods might break his personal oaths in the fallout, specifically in regards to the innocent. Aiding the good gods might get him assassinated by a Balor. And so on. Don't just consider his own position, either - if giving the artifact back to the good gods will significantly help the party and the character's family, that's definitely a plus for that option.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about the Good-Evil alignment option. As you've pointed out, the character generally doesn't care. How that single choice shifts his alignment wouldn't be much of a concern of his (unless it actually is) and his actions wouldn't change any even if the shift occurs.

Mando Knight
2011-03-20, 03:11 PM
Your character is being blackmailed by the Evil gods. The Lifedrinker sword is not theirs and they have no control over it, but they will keep sending enemies at you as long as you don't follow their demands.

Or, rather, they shouldn't have any control over it, as it doesn't require a Divine Spell to craft, let alone an Evil one. A similar thing happened in FR, to Evil spellcasters back when Midnight was new at being Mystra (who governs the Weave, the source of spellcasting within the Realms).

Probably the best choice is to deny them blackmail. Destroy the Lifedrinker and contact the Good deities about the breach of domain.

Gray Mage
2011-03-20, 03:27 PM
Strictily speaking, there is no "price" for using a Lifedrinker weapon, and even if it was I don't see how the evil gods would be the ones to "collect" it. They're faking a contract and bullying you into doing what they want, so clearly the lawfull thing to do is sue the evil gods in a court in Mechanus for forgery of contract or some thing like that (I have no idea since I'm not a lawyer). :smalltongue:

But seriously, maybe contact the lawfull gods and ask their opinion? I bet they'd know the what's the lawfull thing to do.

erikun
2011-03-20, 03:28 PM
Probably the best choice is to deny them blackmail. Destroy the Lifedrinker and contact the Good deities about the breach of domain.
Technically you shouldn't need to destroy the sword, as their breach is likely just sending demonic assassins rather than the sword itself. That said, you have a good point - the Lifedrinker's destruction might be required to get the evil gods off your back, or as a heavy bargaining chip with the good gods.

Getting an alliance with Solars, several churches, and a handful of deities might be worth looking for a new sword.

dps
2011-03-20, 04:21 PM
No contractual obligations on your part, so try selling the artifact to someone else. Not guaranteed to get the evil gods off you back, but it's a reasonable lawful solution, and it would favor neither good nor evil.

Elric VIII
2011-03-20, 04:49 PM
Well, the problem is not using the artifact or being attacked by evil creatures, it is the fact that I lose 5000 exp every time I hit anything with my weapon. There is no save or way to fight it, it just happens (regardless of the fact that my character is immune to energy drain).

Contacting Mechanus seems like a good idea. I can give them the artifact, to do with as they please, as a gift. I can then petition them for protection from the exp loss. This seems like the best plan for me, with a backup plan of trying to negotiate between the Good and Evil gods.

Thank you for your help.

ericgrau
2011-03-22, 11:17 AM
Why do you need to serve either set of dieties? Why not ignore their requests or keep the item for yourself or sell it. Not as a dishonorable (and unlawful) trick, but as an open and honest refusal. I'd think maintaining neutrality would best fit your alignment, or a disregard for those to whom you have no loyalty would be best for your pseudo-evil alignment.

You can use a bow while mounted btw it's a DC 5 ride check. You can make ride checks untrained (as a dex check).

Toofey
2011-03-22, 11:37 AM
A Hero would take the hit, and face up to the fact that he wants to do good in the world. It may screw your character in the short term but becoming good would be a hell of a story and should capture your DM's imagination.

If you're actually LN, and this weapon is the most useful thing to your goals, and you can't use the other weapon, than strict utility would demand that you comply with the demands of the evil gods.

It sounds like your DM has put you between a rock and a hard place. Time to either disprove the idea that you're good, or embrace it. Seems like you're all out of middle ground in that regard. Not that you're necessarily evil, but... **** or get off the pot.

Elric VIII
2011-03-23, 02:55 PM
Why do you need to serve either set of dieties? Why not ignore their requests or keep the item for yourself or sell it. Not as a dishonorable (and unlawful) trick, but as an open and honest refusal. I'd think maintaining neutrality would best fit your alignment, or a disregard for those to whom you have no loyalty would be best for your pseudo-evil alignment.

You can use a bow while mounted btw it's a DC 5 ride check. You can make ride checks untrained (as a dex check).

The thing is, my cleric went from being a LG cleric of Heironeous to a LN cleric of an ideal. Considering Bone Knight consists of forging a suit of armor and allowing it to slowly graft itself to your body in order to become pseudo-undead, I'm thinking that it'd be hard-pressed getting divine power from good gods. The thing about the artifact is that the good gods seem indeferent to it since it is the last shread of an undesirable alliance.

Also, it's a longbow. Only shortbows can be used while mounted.


A Hero would take the hit, and face up to the fact that he wants to do good in the world. It may screw your character in the short term but becoming good would be a hell of a story and should capture your DM's imagination.

If you're actually LN, and this weapon is the most useful thing to your goals, and you can't use the other weapon, than strict utility would demand that you comply with the demands of the evil gods.

It sounds like your DM has put you between a rock and a hard place. Time to either disprove the idea that you're good, or embrace it. Seems like you're all out of middle ground in that regard. Not that you're necessarily evil, but... **** or get off the pot.

My character is a reluctant hero. The reason I'm pursuing a third path is because my character is strongly Lawful. My hope is that it will be something a little more interesting. I'm going to speak to my DM about it, but he assumes that I'm taking the Evil path, but that is the least likely thing for my character to do.

Severus
2011-03-23, 03:08 PM
I would chuck lifedrinker and refuse to let the god and evil gods drag me into their mess.

Toofey
2011-03-23, 09:14 PM
My character is a reluctant hero. The reason I'm pursuing a third path is because my character is strongly Lawful. My hope is that it will be something a little more interesting. I'm going to speak to my DM about it, but he assumes that I'm taking the Evil path, but that is the least likely thing for my character to do. I've been speaking as a DM in this thread to this point, my character (who's admittedly lG) would tell him that if he wants to do good, and that's why he's lawful, than he's already good, and he should follow his heart, especially if taking the evil path is so adverse to him.

edit: sorry bad B code

Ytaker
2011-03-23, 10:20 PM
The text for lifedrinker, which is the basis for your artifact I presume, explictly mentions that the weapon is supposed to be used by undead and constructs who don't suffer its problems. As such, the evil gods have no authority over it at all, or reason to punish you.

They are using chaotic and unlawful magic on you to get you to do their will and break up a lawful alliance. Unless there's some sort of contract limiting divine involvement they are allowed to do so, and are likely not subject to the authority of any court in mechanus.

You can't do anything in particular to them. There are no easy lawful options to take. Talking to your DM is the best bet.

Elric VIII
2011-03-23, 11:10 PM
I've spoken to my DM, he's basically said that I can't get the Lawful gods involved because they don't care. It seems that he wants to limit me to these two choices, niether of which particularly suit me.

I'll probobly just get a Souldrinking weapon from BoVD, it's only 1 negative level per hit, but it ends up being much cheaper, so I can pile on the upgrades.




The text for lifedrinker, which is the basis for your artifact I presume, explictly mentions that the weapon is supposed to be used by undead and constructs who don't suffer its problems. As such, the evil gods have no authority over it at all, or reason to punish you.

The artifact is a Good-aligned longbow. Lifedrinker is my weapon.

Another_Poet
2011-03-23, 11:16 PM
Couldn't your character choose to protect the item, not because protecting it is Good, but because your character doesn't give in to the threats of a bunch of evil jackasses?

Seems consistent with having a strong code of personal conduct, and it doesn't make you Evil or Good.

Elric VIII
2011-03-23, 11:21 PM
Couldn't your character choose to protect the item, not because protecting it is Good, but because your character doesn't give in to the threats of a bunch of evil jackasses?

Seems consistent with having a strong code of personal conduct, and it doesn't make you Evil or Good.

Yeah, that's going to be the fate of the artifact when I get a Souldrinking weapon.

Toofey
2011-03-24, 02:05 AM
Yeah, i hadn't considered telling both sides to stuff it, which may well be the Most LN thing to do, there is still the chance your DM is railroading you.

big teej
2011-03-24, 09:10 AM
now, it could be because I woke up within the last half hour...

but I cannot help but feel that your DM is just trying to screw with you.

I'd talk about it with him OOC "why is this happening? an explanation. I demand one!"

:smalltongue:

at least that's what I'd do if a DM sprang something on me with no heads up/reasoning/justification whatsoever.

Quietus
2011-03-24, 09:44 AM
It sounds to me like the DM probably put Lifedrinker in the hands of an NPC, didn't count on it either being captured or used, and now is trying to retcon the problem by ensuring it *can't* be used. Regardless, it definitely sounds like railroading to me... and I'd say that you should go to the Good gods, and trade protection of the artifact for protection from Lifedrinker's inexplicable exp drain. Not because it's the Good thing to do, but because Lifedrinker is a good weapon and you want to keep using it, and you have a bunch of jerkasses in the lower planes being tools.

Epsilon Rose
2011-03-24, 11:07 AM
I have to agree, this does seem like a fair bit of railroading.


Strictily speaking, there is no "price" for using a Lifedrinker weapon, and even if it was I don't see how the evil gods would be the ones to "collect" it. They're faking a contract and bullying you into doing what they want, so clearly the lawfull thing to do is sue the evil gods in a court in Mechanus for forgery of contract or some thing like that (I have no idea since I'm not a lawyer). :smalltongue:

But seriously, maybe contact the lawfull gods and ask their opinion? I bet they'd know the what's the lawfull thing to do.


It sounds to me like the DM probably put Lifedrinker in the hands of an NPC, didn't count on it either being captured or used, and now is trying to retcon the problem by ensuring it *can't* be used. Regardless, it definitely sounds like railroading to me... and I'd say that you should go to the Good gods, and trade protection of the artifact for protection from Lifedrinker's inexplicable exp drain. Not because it's the Good thing to do, but because Lifedrinker is a good weapon and you want to keep using it, and you have a bunch of jerkasses in the lower planes being tools.
If you can't get either of these to work I'd go for a variant. If some third party doesn't care trick the evil gods into doing something that they would care about (perhaps using the sword in Sigil so when they impose their will they run headlong into the lady of pain) and get the sword thing resolved as an aside.

That or you could try playing them against each other, getting them both to pay you and possibly weakening both sets of gods.

Elric VIII
2011-03-24, 11:13 AM
The thing is, I have talked to my DM and he's assured me that he doesn't mind me using Lifedrinker. I assume that if I choose to follow the Evil gods I would get it back, unless he's just screwing with me.

This campaign has been rather light on RP (namely only me and one other are actually trying to play characters that aren't Chaotic Stupid), but I wanted to at least try.

The actual resolution of this will be this Sunday, so I guess I'll just bite and do what's mechanically best for me.

Master_Rahl22
2011-03-24, 11:35 AM
I agree with talking to your DM OOC to make sure he's not trying to use this to nerf you through some IC railroading. Assuming that is not the case, I like either going to Mechanus or defending the Macguffin for you own reasons because screw those evil gods.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Hmmm, well then maybe the DM is trying to get the party to RP more and using the plot hooks your character provides. I'd go with the idea someone gave of making a deal with the good gods, perhaps even extorting better terms out of them but leaving you protecting the artifact for reasons other than "because it's the Good thing to do".

Elric VIII
2011-03-25, 12:29 AM
EDIT: Ninja'd. Hmmm, well then maybe the DM is trying to get the party to RP more and using the plot hooks your character provides. I'd go with the idea someone gave of making a deal with the good gods, perhaps even extorting better terms out of them but leaving you protecting the artifact for reasons other than "because it's the Good thing to do".

I suppose that's possible. I have to give him a chance. Based on the outcome I might just retrain feats to DMM Persist after I've made a deal with the devil (for the greater good, of course :vaarsuvius:).

Dr. Steve
2011-03-25, 02:54 AM
Have you thought about entrapping it deep within the Earth where no one knows it's whereabouts? Effectively it's unusable as an artifact of good (no one can get to it), but ends up being perfectly protected and thus undestroyed (so good gods don't throw a tantrum). I think this works pretty well.

So, effectively use Imprisonment on the Artifact?

Grollub
2011-03-25, 06:25 PM
correct me if im wrong here... but..

Have you looked at a possibility of taking this "good aligned" bow.. and your "evil aligned" sword.. and going off on a tangent, to do a quest or try to get them merged into 1 weapon. Maybe the good/ evil cancel out and your left with a rocking weapon in the name of law.

if thats not a possibility at all, just get the "good" bow.. trade it in , go evil, and use the lifedrinker without penalty. Seems like you going evil would fit the party better since they are all murderous hobos anyway...lol

Grollub
2011-03-25, 06:27 PM
if nothing of the above suits your fancy.. you could always take both weapons throw them into Mount Doom or whatever and tell all sides to go take a flying leap

:smallsmile:

cfalcon
2011-03-25, 08:29 PM
Given that your DM randomly had Gods come and start draining your XP every time you swing your weapon, I don't think getting a different weapon is going to help you out any. They'll just get angry about that too, right?

Elric VIII
2011-03-26, 12:35 AM
if nothing of the above suits your fancy.. you could always take both weapons throw them into Mount Doom or whatever and tell all sides to go take a flying leap

:smallsmile:

This is his actual, original plan for destroying the bow.

NichG
2011-03-26, 12:48 AM
You're going for the pre-eminently lawful thing to do. I'd say, start making very specific deals. Don't listen to ultimatums, they're the bullying of powerful beings confident that they don't need to actually bind themselves in any sort of deal, that their power can just force you do to as they say. Instead, make a compact with the good gods: say that you will return the artifact to them in exchange for a blessing that protects you from what the evil gods are doing to you, or if that isn't on the table, one that exactly balances whatever penalties the evil gods inflict upon you for using Lifedrinker (i.e. get drained 1000xp by evil, gain 1000xp from good).

After all, you're basically holding the fates of three gods in your hands and you have the will and means to destroy it. Assuming they're unwilling to outright stop you with raw power, that should make them sit up and take notice.

Alternately, for extreme points, make clever deals with both sides that weaken both sides or get them embroiled in conflict, so as to maintain the balance but lessen the influence the gods as a whole have on mankind.

Elric VIII
2011-03-26, 01:24 AM
You're going for the pre-eminently lawful thing to do. I'd say, start making very specific deals. Don't listen to ultimatums, they're the bullying of powerful beings confident that they don't need to actually bind themselves in any sort of deal, that their power can just force you do to as they say. Instead, make a compact with the good gods: say that you will return the artifact to them in exchange for a blessing that protects you from what the evil gods are doing to you, or if that isn't on the table, one that exactly balances whatever penalties the evil gods inflict upon you for using Lifedrinker (i.e. get drained 1000xp by evil, gain 1000xp from good).

After all, you're basically holding the fates of three gods in your hands and you have the will and means to destroy it. Assuming they're unwilling to outright stop you with raw power, that should make them sit up and take notice.

Alternately, for extreme points, make clever deals with both sides that weaken both sides or get them embroiled in conflict, so as to maintain the balance but lessen the influence the gods as a whole have on mankind.

Good points. The protection idea was what I wanted to try, just getting is from the Lawful gods (AKA my gods) rather than Good.