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Icedaemon
2011-03-19, 04:52 AM
I did a number of tiny changes to the mechanics of the Walufar setting. As stat-balance is definitely something I am not an expert with, but noone has analysed these yet in the main worldbuilding topic, I thought I should repost them here.



Epic 10.
I am taking the advice of Yora and using Epic 6, though with level 10 being the maximal level that mere mortals can attain. This changes some of the flavour from epic high fantasy to a more grounded one. The lack of common high-level casters also means that mighty magical items and advanced scrolls are not easily found in village cornerstores - all magical items of value tend to have stories behind them and finding a fifth-level spell for your wizard will likely require getting on the good side of a wealthy academy.

That said, while player characters will likely start off at ECL 1 or 2, one should not expect to run into continuous masses of level 1 NPCs - town guards tend to gain some levels over the course of their careers and even farmers should receive XP for, say, 'defeating' droughts. Still, NPCs who are anywhere near the level cap will be very rare.


Massive Damage lowered
The gritty fantasy feel will also modify the massive damage threshold. A character's massive damage threshold equals double that said character's constitution score. The save required to survive massive damage is at least fortitude 15, but with every 5 points by which the damage dealt exceeds the threshold increasing the save DC by 2 points. Note that if a character fails the modified save, but does cross the 15 point mark, that said character is only near-death, with -6 Hp.


Many difficult languages: - this is something that will probably create a lot of flak, but also one of the things I am most adamant about.
I strongly dislike how easy learning languages is in D&D and also how few languages actually exist. Thus, I am placing many, many language barriers on Henariolak. Be prepared to hire native guides to translate for you. Well, that or keep someone who can cast 'tongues' repeatedly around, but native guides will be a lot more fun and allow you sorcerers to pick or wizards to prepare different spells.

Common does not exist on this planet. The only reasonable explanation for the existence of a common language which I have seen was on Pathfinder, where the language of an empire which fell some time ago but had conquered all of the Inner Sea is still considered Lingua Franca. However, since no nation has held such power on Walufar, tough luck. There are many dozens of nations and over half of them have their own language, although admittedly, as on Earth, there are many closely related languages.
Speak language is a bit of an odd one out among skills on this realm. It ought not be a class skill for any class, save perhaps some prestige classes, but ranks in it shall dictate how well any one language is understood.

At rank one, one knows a scant handful of basic phrases and can parrot them, if often incorrectly. Rank two grants the ability to understand the language, if the phrases one hears are simple words spoken slowly, loudly and without accent, as well as use rudimentary phrases to try and converse. One can try to have a conversation, but the grammar will be deeply flawed and one will make many mistakes. Rank three will allow one to speak the language at roughly the same level as a peasant or uneducated commoner. Conversation is easy and grammar mistakes tend not to be too glaring, but one will be stumped if one hears strange terminology or a very unfamiliar dialect. Rank four allows one to speak like a citizen and merchant, someone who has an education and a good grasp of the language. The most esoteric terminology outside one’s area of expertise might still be confusing, but is it not to nearly everyone? Rank five is rarely seen, spoken by people who have such fluent control of language that sesquipedalian loquaciousness does not even surprise them and they can answer in kind with ease. This is currently only witnessed among diplomats, since lawyers and professors of linguistics have not been invented yet. Such people can often even read scientific texts outside their field of expertise without any discomfort.

Most people speak their native language at rank three or four, depending on class and background. When learning languages which are closely related to your own, you pay half cost (as if it were a class skill) and start with one free rank. People who actually have ‘speak language’ as class skill are assumed to already have rank two in these languages. Each positive intelligence modifier further gives characters one free rank of any language from their region. One who learns a third rank of a foreign language in turn has an easier time with its relatives, treating them as if one had that language as a class skill. Additionally, people who live in border regions or multi-lingual lands, such as the River Lords region, will typically have one extra rank of whatever additional languages are spoken there (thus, someone from a Lewari family in the River Lords lands will speak Kopshi, already a related language, at rank 2 or 3.)

Human languages of note include:
Optirian, spoken by several nations in the far northwest. It is closely related to most of the northwestern languages, including Hregmarian, spoken a slight bit east of the lands where Optirian is widespread.
Somewhat south of that, Santian is spoken, along with its relatives, including Alentian.
Sarshen, which has several differing dialects that can occasionally stump those who speak it in a different dialect at ranks less than five.
Heinerek, spoken in the region around the central mountain range. There are many different dialects of the language, of which several are different enough to classify as a separate language, including Rakak and Ninuk, the latter of which is also spoken in northern Retegalafsei.
The most widely spoken human-borne languages in Retegalafsei, however, are Neraai and Jaijaua, neither of which is very similar to the other or Ninuk. Since both are even more different from dwarven and goblin languages, a simplified form of Draconic has become the de jure trade language within Retegalafsei.

Dwarven languages have a lot more in common. All five duregar languages are closely related. The northern dwarf tribes languages are also very similar.
Goblinoid languages are an odd sort. The goblin languages of the northwest are all related, with several of them being close enough to be seen as dialects of each other, but there is an immense mass of them, with almost every tribe having its own dialect.

Hobgoblins, who have gathered into two great nations, used to have many different languages as well, but only five have remained, three of which are spoken in Nrenha-Khugai and the other pair in Dengim-Bhail. In both states, however, one language is rapidly being implemented. Nrenha-Khugai, the older nation of the two by far, has already almost achieved this and all but the most mentally stunted of those who have another native language all speak Khugai-Vrin. They are, however, very different from the northern goblinoid languages.

If the draconic languages were simpler, it is possible that they would already act as a bit of a Lingua Franca. There are only five draconic languages on Walufar. However, until one understands the basics of Draconic, there are immense difficulties in mastering it. The dragons do not accept the concept of loan words – while a phrase which is common in another language used by dragons might be implemented, copying the words of lesser beings is deemed beneath any form of Draconic.

Retegapaukrak, spoken by the blue dragons is currently the most important by virtue of their mighty empire. A greatly simplified form of the language, called Retegapauklannirak, or Lanni-Retegarak is used to facilitate communications between the varied nationalities and species who bow to the Dragon-Emperor. The dragons who live in the central mountains and surrounding jungles tend to speak Vuneipagorkahauknak, while a third language, Serpbahettehaiklag, is used by the dragons who live in the northern regions.
However, learning any one of these except Retegapauklannirak constitutes a problem, as it is notoriously difficult for a non-dragon attempts to learn his or her first draconic language. Thus, rank 1 is phrasebook level, 2-3 are ‘(barely) understands, cannot speak more than some phrases’, 4-5 is rudimentary and crude, 6 is peasant, 7 is merchant and rank 8 is diplomat-level.

Retegapauklannirak has offered an interesting solution, however. It is as simple as most other foreign languages to learn and one who has mastered it can learn Retegapaukrak with ease (as it is closely related). In turn, the other draconic languages are easy to learn for one who is skilled with Retegapaukrak.

The fifth draconic language, is called variations of Old Draconic by mortals. The language is even more complex and byzantine in requirements than the normal varieties, but it is never used to actually converse, for this is the language that is spoken to cast arcane spells. It is almost instinctively known to dragons, but even learning to correctly pronounce the syllables in any given circumstance takes a long time for prospective wizards.

Like goblins, elves and giants also have many different languages with similar roots. However, they control no great lands.

Magical and outsider languages, such as Sylvan, Druidic, Infernal and such are still kept as one tongue. However, like Draconic, they are very alien and complex and likewise have ten ranks of mastery.


Everyone is not literate.
Literacy is not nearly as widespread on Walufar as it is in the Forgotten Realms. Certainly, all wizards, archivists, factotums and others whose skills and powers depend directly on the knowledge they can gather and understand can read - to them this is an essential skill. However, with the other classes, one's country of origin plays a very big role in if they can read. Nearly everyone from Nekrer is literate, since the influence of the wizard-kings leads to knowledge and writing being considered very important. On the other hand, in the backwater swamplands even nobles tend to be illiterate.

One should also note that literacy with languages that use different alphabets must be purchased separately and that the first time one purchases literacy, one will pay four, not two skill points. The different alphabets part also applies to wizards - they only start with literacy with the alphabets of their native language and possibly some secret language which is used to scribe scrolls.


Skills and feats modified:
Knowledge (local) shall be assumed to only touch on a character’s region of origin, unless specified otherwise. Depending on the number of ranks that one has, this explains only information regarding one’s city or shire of birth, hereditary nation, that and group of nearby nations or even in some very specific cases the half of Walufar that one hails from. However, checks for minor information about places far from the core of one’s area of expertise have somewhat higher difficulty classes. Balancing that out is the fact that everyone who is not a complete recluse gains a +5 modifier to checks of knowledge (local) in regard to the last location where they last spent at least two years in by virtue of hearing some gossip and being affected by the actually important events.

Classes other than primary spellcasters gain +2 skill points per level.

Classes:
All the standard base classes can be encountered on Walufar. However, monks are incredibly rare, only seen among dwarves; dreamers in particular. Dwarven monks tend to go in for grappling as much as unarmed attacks. In mechanical terms, all monks are dwarfs or, if the player writes an interesting enough bio, mentored by dwarves.

Charisma-based spontaneous arcane casters are far rarer than wizards, who are hardly seen every day themselves. Charisma-based casters tend to hail from Retegalafsei and Dengim-Bhail, where they tend to have draconic or fiendish blood respectively. However, family lines which have included several wizards, such as the royal house of Nekrulopi, might also have the occasional sorcerer. Obviously, playing members of royal families and people very closely related to dragons is not allowed, by virtue of the connections alone making it unfair on the fellow playing a peasant's son.

Because of their rarity and (usually) high-profile heritage, anyone who wishes to play a sorcerer will need to make a compelling case for it. As pointed out earlier, a sorcerer relies on instinctive understanding of Old Draconic, just like her distant ancestor.

Of course, spontaneous arcane casters who have dragon blood from an ancestor within the last four or five generations often become Dragon Disciples, dragon shamans or something else similar to this. Once again, they are rare outside of the regions where dragons themselves rule, of which currently only one (officially, at least) exists. Charisma-based draconic arcanists who have been raised and educated in Retegalafsei gain +2 skill points per level and count ‘Sense Motive’ among their class skills – they make up the bulk of the diplomatic corps of Retegalafsei. Again, at least when the game starts, playing a diplomat from a distant country will at best come with a dozen or so strings attached - a diplomat does often know sensitive information about one's country of origin and dragons do tend to be paranoid and vindictive when it comes to traitors.

Bards are among the few spontaneous casters who don't have to have a strong magical heritage, but even they are typically from somewhat magical bloodlines. A bard relies not on instinctive knowledge of spells, but on manipulating the world's inherent magical aspects with music.

Intelligence-based spontaneous casters like the duskblade are not met every day either, but they are trained in Nekrer. In their case, spontaneous casting is, flavour-wise, not so much due to great inherent power, but focusing so greatly on the few spells they know that they do not need the amount of revision that wizards require. Despite their magic being charisma-based, dread necromancers are also affected by a similarly short enough list of spells that their existence can be described thus, because necromancers are already one of the major staples of this world.

Among prepared casters, wizards are far more common than Wu Jen, but those exist as well. Wu Jen hail only from the southern lands, where their brand of magic is based so much not on private research, flavour-wise, as it is on an older and slightly more demanding form of arcana discovered and explored by the blue dragons before normal wizardry spread across the world. Thus, Wu jen see wizards as people who take the easy and popular path and thus lack their mental integrity, while wizards see the Wu Jen as mages who insist on archaric and convulted practice. While there were plenty of Wu Jen in the world when civilization was young, the only high-profile surviving colleges are in the lands of the blue dragons. It is not impossible though that some Wu Jen mentored their children or nieces/nephews and passed the knowledge down through generations, in some small southern land.

In recent years, some folk identifying themselves as shadowcasters have also appeared in the open. With one school in Nekrer said to openly teach this sort of magic, these magi are stranger than even the secretive Wu Jen. Shadowcasters are opposed by many clergies, especially the church of Nop, which considers the notion that shadow and darkness can be used as sources of power as a great heresy.

Knights, Marshals and Scouts are seen in all parts of Walufar, though the former two are most common in the northwest. While they used to have plenty of barbarians amongst them in the past, modern-day Bonesmen are often Swashbucklers or Artificers. The former is a combat style that is popular in many regions these days due to the distrust and mild hostility armoured folk who do not wear a guard's uniform (and often, even those who do) can expect inside large cities. Swashbuckler can also be seen as a kind of a base class by the merits of this world. The era of chivalry has passed in the minds of many city-folk and knights who ride into town in barded stallions are often seen as old oppressors who still cling to their glory days.

Given the spread of civilization, it should be no surprise that the barbarian is a class on its way out. The closest and practically only place where human barbarians might come from is the Marshlands, where life is still hard and centralised governments impossible. Dwarven barbarians do not even exist in the known lands, unless some truly extraordinary circumstances come to pass. In Lewarur, practically the only barbarians one is still able to see in one's lifetime are the goblin tribes' elite.

Divine casters are not everyday encounters either. The vast majority of worshippers are laymen, adepts at best. One thing common in fluff but not often explored is the fact that a Cleric is someone who have been granted great magical power by their god, to be used by the cleric to fulfill the god's agenda, not for personal amusement or to gather wealth. A cleric will need to follow the orders of archpriests and divine doctrines, usually to the letter. Those who stray from the path will at the very least end up losing their powers, with the more vengeful gods responding to impudence with often-deadly force. Only in regions where a holy war is ongoing can one expect to see several powerful clerics on the battlefield at the same time.

Druids might have it even worse. Given how rare they are, druids often have nowhere to turn to for guidance, yet the spirits they serve are if anything more demanding of strictly-followed doctrines than several gods. Only the fae can offer accurate interpretations of what a druid should do, yet they are alien in thought, dangerous and always have their own agendas.

Paladins are also uncommon, though there are some orders in nations where the cult of Leen is strong. Paladins of Helm are also found in some regions. As pointed out in another post, since fighting evil is not an inherently good act, a paladin who does not wish to start looking for the nearest arch priest will need to show genuine goodwill. Still, a paladin is not quite as likely to fall from grace as a cleric, since the powers the gods grant them are less intensive.

Archivists are not common arcane casters either, given how only Nekrer has locations which actually teach the trade. While they might not need to atone so often for doing what they personally wish to do, archivists need scrolls like wizards do, yet have a hard time finding any. In addition to that, most gods and clergies consider archivists abominable. Still, on the whole, a paladin or archivist is probably a more reliable healer for a party, unless the PCs decide to become agents of a specific church.

I am very unlikely to allow homebrewed classes and spells, unless I see them as something which has a very interesting flavour which fits Walufar and as something which fills a gap among pre-exisiting spells or prestige classes. If I can be convinced that one of the underpowered base classes (such as the less-potent-than-bards marshals) should get an upgrade, that’s fine and good, but remember that what players get, NPCs can be entitled to as well.


Utility spells and low-magic settings.
While lowering the maximal level and noting that casters are rare might decrease the problem somewhat, one thing that should still be noted is that there are far too many low-level spells which are absurdly useful in mundane situations. While this is fine, even beneficial in a hack & slash campaign, I am not fond of allowing this situation to remain so herein.

Create water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm), Purify Food & Drink (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/purifyFoodAndDrink.htm), Endure elements, Message, Mount, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Create Food and Water, the clerical version of Enthrall, Remove Disease, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Tongues, are one level higher - the orisions and cantrips on level 1 and so on.
Mending and Make Whole are two levels higher. This also goes for the cleric version of Comprehend Languages, making it a level 3 spell as opposed to a level 1 spell.
Remove curse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/removeCurse.htm) only affects one curse per casting.

The spell ‘Tiny Hut’ does not protect from sand- or hailstorms strong enough to cause damage to people.

Floating Disk
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/floatingDisk.htm) has a large (at least 40 cm diameter) silver bowl as it's material component, to make sure that it is not too commonplace.

While not much more complex, the Rope trick (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ropeTrick.htm) spell as understood by me leads to an extradimensional space in the Far Realm. Thus, characters who use it as a hideaway will have to make a will save (DC 12) when entering the space, as well as every fifteen minutes from there on, or go insane, as per the 'insanity' spell. Note that people who have been forced into the extradimensional space and driven insane will be enraged (as per Barbarian ability) when they become aggressive.

Remove disease does not insta-cure all diseases, but gives the target the ability to re-roll the fortitude saves required to resist the diseases, with a circumstance bonus equal to the cleric's level.

Note if you will that this will mean that a hostile cleric can magically induce problems (say, via contagion) earlier than a friendly one can cure them. This should be normal - after all, it is easier to harm than to heal in real life. Note also, that most non-SRD utility spells will likewise be at a higher spell level.

Not all pouches are Bags of Holding
To further balance spellcasters and non-spellcasters, the assumption that a tiny pouch can contain hundreds of different substances is overruled. A wizard who does not want his bat guano mixing with his horse hairs will need dozens of pouches or pockets, as well as a pocket for vials where to keep the holy water, mercury and other liquids. Because these substances are often not easy to pull out, producing the materials needed to cast a spell with more than one material components requires a separate standard action, while spells which require only one component take a move action. The 'Quick draw' feat allows for drawing one component as a free action, or several as a move action.

Finally, given how even mundane spell components are not infinite in any pouch, wizards who partake in long adventures in regions where magic-users are rare can on occasion run out of non-mundane substances they need to cast spells they use a lot (such as, for example, fireflies for the Light spell).

Of course, coins are not exempt from the space problem either. A party that finds a chest full of gold is lucky indeed, buy cannot expect to stuff all it contains into six small leather bags. If they later have to run away, carrying the chest might prove an impediment itself. Of course, this is what henchmen are for...
Other things of note:
Due to Henariolak's distance from most outer planes, summoning celestial creatures is next to impossible and fiendish creatures are rarely easy to call. However, outsiders from Mechanus and Acheron are easily summoned and beings from the transitive planes can be found.

The incantation rules from Unearthed Arcana can be used to replicate sixth- and higher-level spells, though instructions are needed and rituals are quite a fair bit more difficult.

Things to note from other posts:

Weapon proficiencies - in Lewarur and several other nearby nations, the martial weapons list looks different - polearms such as for example Bec De Corbin are martial weapons, while flails and greatswords are rare and exotic. Given how the flail is already a sub-optimal weapon and now also exotic for all non-goblins, the flails new damage rolls are S 1d8 and M 2d4 for flail and S 1d10 M 1d12 for heavy flail should place them on par with weapons like the dwarven waraxe.

Yora
2011-03-19, 10:32 AM
This all seems not a drastic change in balance compared to a "standard" E10 game.
But the Massive Damage variant seems extremely lethal to me. Unless you have a very high point buy, many characters will have Constitution scores of 12 or 14 and dealing 15 damage with a single attack really isn't that hard and if you're a power attacking barbarian it's not even a problem at 1st level. And assuming a 3rd level character with a low Fort class and Con 14, you've got +3 to Fort, which means you need at least a 12 or you die. That's a 60% chance. It's fun when the PCs do it, but everything that increases randomness plays against the PCs on the long run. An NPC or monster usually is only in a single fight for the whole game. The PCs will be in dozens or hundreds of fights. I strongly recommend not going through with this.

And you forgot to remove Rope Trick. I'm pretty sure that you don't want that one in your game. :smallbiggrin:

Boci
2011-03-19, 10:46 AM
Nice setting you have fleshed out, just one thing that's a pet peeve of mine.


To further balance spellcasters and non-spellcasters, the assumption that a tiny pouch can contain hundreds of different substances is overruled. A wizard who does not want his bat guano mixing with his horse hairs will need dozens of pouches or pockets, as well as a pocket for vials where to keep the holy water, mercury and other liquids.

This doesn't help at all, especially not for balance. It can have 2 consequences:

1. A wizard is equally powerful (just a couple of gp poorer), but shopping and character sheet management now take a lot longer, annoying both him and the group.

2. A wizard says screw it and takes escrew material components, resulting in a very small dip in power.

jiriku
2011-03-19, 07:32 PM
+1 to Yora's concern about massive damage threshold. That will have far-reaching negative consequences for PC lifespan, especially martially oriented "front-line" characters who are accustomed to getting hit repeatedly during combat.

Also, when EVERY hit by the PCs triggers a massive damage check for the monsters (which you can expect will happen around level 4-ish), combat slows down significantly and your workload increases.

You will need to significantly increase the number of skill points per level available to all classes in order to "pay the overhead" required to learn languages, unless you intend your campaigns to be extremely provincial and never leave a small region where everyone speaks at least one of a very small set of 1-3 similar languages. I'm thinking you'll need +4 skill points per level for all classes, although +6 would probably be more appropriate for certain classes that rely on language-dependent spells and class features (bards, enchanters, conjurers).

Other than that, well...I see some pain points around class balance, but using E10 (and increasing the level of those utility spells) goes a long way towards minimizing that pain.

Mayhem
2011-03-19, 08:34 PM
The way I see it is, while a wizard is preparing his spells he's arranging his pouches to contain the components he'll need. So wizards don't really need to change too much, it's just sorcerers that need to but even then they only have a few spells so its not a huge deal. But I do agree that a silly little pouch is ridiculous.
Complicating the methods used to aquire all the components is fine though. Maybe involve gather information skill check?

I like your take on spells, I might have to nick your idea for my setting too :smallwink:.

Your take on classes and skills is good too.

Everyone being illiterate is fair, I imagine knowlege(local) can be used to identify signs even if they can't read what they say as such.

Languages, well I think 7 levels is a bit much, 5 would be better. But hey you'll soon find out if it works for you.

Levelled NPCs is fair, 13.33 CR1/2 encounters in a lifetime is easily reachable.

For massive damage, I recommend adding HD into the equation. I know fortitude inproves with level so it already is in a limited way, but it might be worth adding in anyway.

Weapons, definately fair. Regional proficiencies make the world feel more dynamic. If flails are exotic weapons, it's no big deal if they have slightly better damage.

DracoDei
2011-03-21, 08:12 PM
I always assumed that spell component "pouches" were more like bandoleers. It doesn't have much mechanical effect really... now if you require draw actions for components and spell-specific focii as if they were weapons THEN you might be on to something... but maybe only at 1st level since otherwise they can still move (and combine drawing their components for the round with that) and cast. Although casting then moving isn't as viable without Quickdraw so it MIGHT still help a smidge. Maybe just say that weapons are naturally designed towards being drawn (being sturdy enough you can't smash them with your grip, and having projecting handles), so drawing components ALWAYS requires its own action unless one has Quickdraw.

As for the language thing, I think his idea was that parties would find it necessary to hire local translators/guides.

Mayhem
2011-03-21, 10:47 PM
Maybe just say that weapons are naturally designed towards being drawn , so drawing components ALWAYS requires its own action unless one has Quickdraw.

That's a cool idea.


I think his idea was that parties would find it necessary to hire local translators/guides.
That's true, and I suppose there isn't any good way to solve the problem beyond what works for the group.

jiriku
2011-03-22, 12:27 AM
Perhaps it was. In the real world, however, when people grow up in a polyglot region, they learn to speak multiple languages, rather than relying on the paid services of strangers. Most of the people I know who hail from India, eastern Europe, or southeast Asia speak 3 or more languages fluently, and often know at least a smidgin of 4-6 more. And these are normal people (albeit college-educated) with non-language-related vocations, not linguists or professional translators.

That works out to somewhere between 16 and 34 ranks of Speak Language, which is 32-68 skill points if purchased cross-class. And normal people are "supposed" to be almost exclusively levels 1-5, so that represents an enormous investment of skill points compressed into very few levels. +4 skill points per level was actually a slightly conservative recommendation.

I run a game world with no common tongue as well, and I've found that even at a rate of 1 skill rank per language spoken, the lack of common does drive a significant number of PC skill points into the Speak Language skill. Players want to be able to interrogate the prisoner, negotiate with the prince, haggle with the merchant, pump the bartender for information, and whatnot.

DracoDei
2011-03-22, 07:44 AM
Regarding Real Life: Languages are much easier to acquire before the age of about 6 or something...

Thus I suggest possibly keeping the SRD rules for starting languages, but with a much more carefully considered list for each region/race/whatever. The rules in this thread look like they work better for learning languages later in life...

Icedaemon
2011-03-22, 10:38 AM
This all seems not a drastic change in balance compared to a "standard" E10 game.
But the Massive Damage variant seems extremely lethal to me. Unless you have a very high point buy, many characters will have Constitution scores of 12 or 14 and dealing 15 damage with a single attack really isn't that hard and if you're a power attacking barbarian it's not even a problem at 1st level. And assuming a 3rd level character with a low Fort class and Con 14, you've got +3 to Fort, which means you need at least a 12 or you die. That's a 60% chance. It's fun when the PCs do it, but everything that increases randomness plays against the PCs on the long run. An NPC or monster usually is only in a single fight for the whole game. The PCs will be in dozens or hundreds of fights. I strongly recommend not going through with this.

I initially had planned for 'constitution x2'. I'll go back to it.


And you forgot to remove Rope Trick. I'm pretty sure that you don't want that one in your game. :smallbiggrin:

It does not seem to be that broken, though it does seem to have a very odd effect. I'll probably at most change it so that, since 'outside the normal group of planes' means 'in the Far Realm' for me, prolonged stay in the Rope Trick space can and will lead to insanity.


Nice setting you have fleshed out, just one thing that's a pet peeve of mine.

This doesn't help at all, especially not for balance. It can have 2 consequences:

1. A wizard is equally powerful (just a couple of gp poorer), but shopping and character sheet management now take a lot longer, annoying both him and the group.

2. A wizard says screw it and takes escrew heh material components, resulting in a very small dip in power.

I'll probably still keep it for flavour, but make up a mechanic to determine if the wizard actually finds the material components - with only one or two wizardry-oriented nations, there will be regions in the central lands where a mage will lack the requisite components for certain spells.

I should make Eschew Materials a more difficult feat to gain though, if not remove it entirely.


You will need to significantly increase the number of skill points per level available to all classes in order to "pay the overhead" required to learn languages, unless you intend your campaigns to be extremely provincial and never leave a small region where everyone speaks at least one of a very small set of 1-3 similar languages. I'm thinking you'll need +4 skill points per level for all classes, although +6 would probably be more appropriate for certain classes that rely on language-dependent spells and class features (bards, enchanters, conjurers).

Hmm... +2 skill points per level, perhaps. I'd be hesitant to hand out more, certainly not +6. Giving party-face-skillmonkeys like the bard at least +4 is definitely an option though.


Maybe just say that weapons are naturally designed towards being drawn (being sturdy enough you can't smash them with your grip, and having projecting handles), so drawing components ALWAYS requires its own action unless one has Quickdraw.

Ooh. I like this.

Thank you all for the constructive critique and any and all compliments. I'll modify accordingly later today or tomorrow. Anything else that needs to be added/changed?

erikun
2011-03-22, 03:34 PM
Please note that most characters will have only 2 ranks in a language at first level, with the exception of Bards and such, and will need to wait until level 8 before they can even speak their native tongue well. While I can understand wanting to make foreign languages difficult to learn, they aren't that difficult, and characters would need to wait until 5th level before they can do more than grunt basic phrases at each other.

I also doubt that you meant for any NPC with basic conversational levels to be 8th level or higher.

Mayhem
2011-03-22, 03:41 PM
I would also allow a feat taken at first level to give full proficiency in one language if you're keeping your language system it the way it is.

Maybe metamagic effects cannot be applied without the material components even if you have escew materials? How about if escew materials has the prerequisites: Knowlege(arcana) 5 ranks, and ability to cast second level spells.

Icedaemon
2011-03-22, 06:29 PM
I suppose I did make the language system change while still planning on a standard 20-level progression... I might change it to 4-5 ranks as opposed to 7, though the difficult outsider and draconic languages will remain incredibly complex still.

jiriku
2011-03-22, 08:36 PM
Trick is, if 5 ranks = proficiency, and Speak Language is a cross-class skill for you, then you can't get 5 ranks until level 7.

To make this work, you'd really need 4 ranks to be basic proficiency (since you can have 4 ranks in something at level 1), and to grant those 4 ranks free as part of the starting package. As DracoDei suggested, your system is well-suited to learning foreign languages, but doesn't really model well the idea of someone who grows up in a multi-lingual household and learns 2-3 languages before they hit puberty.

erikun
2011-03-23, 03:55 PM
I suppose I did make the language system change while still planning on a standard 20-level progression... I might change it to 4-5 ranks as opposed to 7, though the difficult outsider and draconic languages will remain incredibly complex still.
If you want to keep it at 7 (max), then perhaps you could give Speak Language as a class skill for everyone, and anyone who would normally get it (Bards, Aristocrat, etc.) instead gains double ranks when they invest skill points. This allows your Bards and such to quickly pick up multiple languages, or pick up new languanges quickly, while everyone else can easily gain language proficiency by 2nd level (5 skill ranks).

Of course, you still have problems with intelligence-lacking fighters being unable to speak and tie their own shoes, but that's more an issue with the skill system overall.

Icedaemon
2011-03-24, 05:39 AM
Languages have been simplified - 5 max ranks for normal languages, 8 max for very complex monster languages. Most people speak their native languages at ranks 3 or 4 and only very rare individuals learn rank 5 of a foreign language.

Massive damage threshold is, again, 2xCon. I will not under any circumstances add HD to it though - HD makes for things with too many hit points to begin with. Now, at least, people will not easily shrug off having their jaw cleaved in half.

Rope Trick can now drive a user insane.

Drawing spell components costs actions.

Mayhem
2011-03-24, 06:37 AM
Those language rules are really good, I'd play them :smallsmile:.
The massive damage rules in Conan d20 are 20, so the average man in your world will have that same number. Just something for a reference.

jiriku
2011-03-24, 10:18 AM
The rope trick penalties are pretty harsh, but... I like them. It reminds me of 1e and 2e D&D, where casting certain spells involved grave risks that couldn't be avoided, so you'd only use them when you were desperate.