Is Karmic Strike or Robilar's Gambit better?

[danzibr]

I could probably answer this for myself if something was cleared up...

For Karmic Strike, it says the opponent has to make a "successful" melee attack against you. Does that mean they have to actually hit you? So a miss wouldn't count? And I assume the instant they hit you they do damage, so Karmic Strike wouldn't cancel their attack, unlike most AoO's.

If that's the case then Robilar's Gambit seems way better. Easier prereqs (well, the BAB is kinda high) and Robilar's Gambit works even if they miss (BUT they get 4 extra damage on you).

[Veyr]

Yes, Robilar's Gambit is better. But remember: they stack.

[Douglas]

Yes, take both. That way if someone actually hits then you get two attacks back at them (assuming Combat Reflexes, of course). And that's not even counting the attacks you get during your actual turn.:smallwink:

[WinWin]

They work well together provided you have a means of generating temp hp or have some kind of vampiric effect attached to your weapon.

One of the major limitations of the 2 feats is reach. Large creatures or polearm wielders will ruin your day. Finessing touch attacks on a high dex build might do the trick, especially if you can get a lot of extra reach. Effects are probably more important than PA. Tripping, Poison and whatever else you can muster.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

They work well together provided you have a means of generating temp hp or have some kind of vampiric effect attached to your weapon.

One of the major limitations of the 2 feats is reach. Large creatures or polearm wielders will ruin your day. Finessing touch attacks on a high dex build might do the trick, especially if you can get a lot of extra reach. Effects are probably more important than PA. Tripping, Poison and whatever else you can muster.

Spiked Chain seems ideal for this kind of thing.

[Ivanovich Redoc]

Unless they are using spiked chain and/or are large+ sized they are hitting you at the edge of their range every time. so add in sidestep and move with the first AoO and hit with the second and take the AoO for moving into a square they don't threaten, or move away and never be full attacked again.

[gorfnab]

Robilar's Gambit + Combat Reflexes + Stormgaurd Warrior + Power Attack = some serious damage potential.

[Zaq]

If you have both, Robilar's is better.

That said, Robilar's can't come online until level 12 at the earliest. Karmic Strike can theoretically come online at level 1 with a human Fighter (or any character with two flaws). That's . . . rather worth something, in my book.

[Optimator]

If you have both, Robilar's is better.

That said, Robilar's can't come online until level 12 at the earliest. Karmic Strike can theoretically come online at level 1 with a human Fighter (or any character with two flaws). That's . . . rather worth something, in my book.

This is pretty much it. One is easier to get but not quite as good.

[Partysan]

Yes, although at level one Karmic strike can be seriously close to suicide.

I don't want to make a new thread fot it so I'll just hijack this one for a short and easy question: if someone has Robilar's Gambit and Evasive Reflexes could they move out of reach as soon as attacked? Robilar's Gambitgrant an AoO, Evasive Reflexes lets you make 5ft steps instead of AoOs, so when someone attacks you you make a 5ft step and can't be attacked anymore. Does it work (assuming you stand at the edge of enemy raech)?

[Sucrose]

Yes, although at level one Karmic strike can be seriously close to suicide.

I don't want to make a new thread fot it so I'll just hijack this one for a short and easy question: if someone has Robilar's Gambit and Evasive Reflexes could they move out of reach as soon as attacked? Robilar's Gambitgrant an AoO, Evasive Reflexes lets you make 5ft steps instead of AoOs, so when someone attacks you you make a 5ft step and can't be attacked anymore. Does it work (assuming you stand at the edge of enemy raech)?

Robilar's Gambit specifically resolves simultaneously with the attack granting the AoO. Therefore, you would still eat the attack, though you could get out of the way of future attacks.

[Essence_of_War]

Yes, although at level one Karmic strike can be seriously close to suicide.

I don't want to make a new thread fot it so I'll just hijack this one for a short and easy question: if someone has Robilar's Gambit and Evasive Reflexes could they move out of reach as soon as attacked? Robilar's Gambitgrant an AoO, Evasive Reflexes lets you make 5ft steps instead of AoOs, so when someone attacks you you make a 5ft step and can't be attacked anymore. Does it work (assuming you stand at the edge of enemy raech)?

Here's Robilar's Gambit:

At the start of your action, you can adopt a fighting stance that exposes you to harm but allows you to take advantage of your opponents' exposed defenses as they reach in to attack you. Anyone who strikes at you gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against you. In return, they provoke attacks of opportunity from you each time they swing. Resolve your attack of opportunity after your foe's attack.

Emphasis mine. So evasive reflexes doesn't work the way you want it to here.

However, if you have a way to generate AoOs before they attack, like say, Hold the Line if you're being charged, then yes you should be able to 5ft step out of the way.

[Partysan]

So I take the attack, but I could avoid the rest of a full attack routine, couldn't I?

[Zaranthan]

Yes indeed.

[DarthCyberWolf]

Then with getting two AoOs every time you're hit, the question becomes: How can you get more AoOs per round? :smallcool:

Other than a high dex, the only thing I know of is Bracers of Opportunity (MIC), but they're only 2/day..

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Then with getting two AoOs every time you're hit, the question becomes: How can you get more AoOs per round? :smallcool:

There are 2 feats in Dragon whose names I forget at the moment that give you extra AoOs, first feat gives 1 extra at -5, second gives 2 extra at -5/-10. They trigger every time you get an AoO, so Karmic Strike + Robilar's Gambit + those feats means you get 6 AoOs whenever someone attacks you.

[dextercorvia]

There are 2 feats in Dragon whose names I forget at the moment that give you extra AoOs, first feat gives 1 extra at -5, second gives 2 extra at -5/-10. They trigger every time you get an AoO, so Karmic Strike + Robilar's Gambit + those feats means you get 6 AoOs whenever someone attacks you.

Improved and Something Combat Reflexes, but they don't give you more per round, just more per trigger.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Improved and Something Combat Reflexes, but they don't give you more per round, just more per trigger.

Right, that's what I meant. You won't be able to pull it off lots of times in a given round, but the first person to hit you each round is likely going to regret it.