Spells to Permanency [3.5]

[goken04]

I'm making an epic level wizard for the first time and I thought "It would be great fun to permanency many spells on myself." So I come to the playground! I've searched google, but I can't find any lists of good spells that can be made permanent. So what are your favorites?

[yugi24862]

Arcane sight. Stops all illusions in there tracks, see invis, notice magical disguises.

[sreservoir]

just persist anything vaguely beneficial that you can. at epic levels, the xp cost is basically negligible. all of the core persistable buffs except telepathic bond come out to only 10k xp, including contradictory reduce/enlarge. so basically, you can do it all at 10th level.

[Shadowleaf]

Just remember that Permanency can be dispelled by a Dispel Magic.

It sucks.

[The Glyphstone]

Great Modthulhu: Threads specifically related to 3.5ed belong in the dedicated 3ed/3.5ed forum.

Burble.

[jiriku]

Because of the dispel vulnerability, you should also think of ways to boost your caster level before casting the spells to be made permanent. Prestige classes like red wizard and archmage can do this, and you can benefit from items like the +1 CL ioun stone or a bead of karma. Certain spells can also boost the caster level of your next spell by +1 or +2. If your DM permits the dweomerkeeper prestige class, you can make your permanency effect proof against dispelling by casting it as a supernatural spell.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm making an epic level wizard for the first time and I thought "It would be great fun to permanency many spells on myself." So I come to the playground! I've searched google, but I can't find any lists of good spells that can be made permanent. So what are your favorites?
Everything under 2,000 xp that's not contradictory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#excellentMagic). Seriously. Arcane Sight (120 foot know illusions? Yes please), Comprehend Languages (Why yes, I CAN read that book), Darkvision (if you don't have it naturally), Detect Magic (yes, get it WITH Arcane Sight - you might get dispelled, after all), Read Magic (for ease of scroll use), See Invisibility (better than True Seeing in some ways, due to the no range limitation), Tongues (talk with everyone), Resistance (Sure, it's not going to stack with your Cloak or Vest of Resistance, nor with that Superior Resistance spell from Spell Compendium... but hey, might as well), Invisibility on all your important possessions, and so on.

[Curmudgeon]

Everything under 2,000 xp that's not contradictory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#excellentMagic). Seriously. Arcane Sight ...
Unless you've got protection against this particular spell from Spell Compendium, I'd suggest exercising some restraint:

The subject takes 1d12 points of damage per functioning spell or spell-like ability currently affecting it (maximum 25d12). In addition, any creature so affected that fails its Will save must then succeed on a Fortitude save or be dazed for 1d6 rounds.

[Jack_Simth]

Unless you've got protection against this particular spell from Spell Compendium, I'd suggest exercising some restraint:
Eh, you're Epic, and you're a caster. You can probably afford to spend a feat to keep your caster level up while you dip a level or three into something that gives you Mettle. Then the spell has very little chance of doing anything to you.

Besides: The damage caps, and at those levels, you're likely to have a very large number of buffs up anyway.

[Lateral]

You're an epic spellcaster. Develop a spell that gives you permanent blindsight or something.

[Sacrieur]

You're an epic spellcaster. Develop a spell that gives you permanent blindsight or something.

Couldn't you use contingency to have a spell that protects you from it when you're targeted?

[Jack_Simth]

Couldn't you use contingency to have a spell that protects you from it when you're targeted?

Oh, yes - it's targeted. You could also just cast Spell Turning.

[0Megabyte]

This may not be the thread for it, but I wonder... what if someone tried to make time stop permanent? I mean, not counting the difficulty in actually doing it, what would the effect be?

If I was the DM and a person did that, I can think what I'd do: I'd have them trapped in time stop for an entire real time day. Let's just hope they're something immortal.

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that if someone casts time stop, and another person had time stop in contingency, they'd both be in the same state.

[herrhauptmann]

This may not be the thread for it, but I wonder... what if someone tried to make time stop permanent? I mean, not counting the difficulty in actually doing it, what would the effect be?

If I was the DM and a person did that, I can think what I'd do: I'd have them trapped in time stop for an entire real time day. Let's just hope they're something immortal.

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that if someone casts time stop, and another person had time stop in contingency, they'd both be in the same state.

My personal response to a player who wants it: Nice idea, but you can't afford it until you're level 50. If we make a game that gets to that point, such an item wouldn't be overly broken (though by that point they could just planeshift to their personal demiplane) and do an astral projection or something.
I'm sure someone's got a jerk DM response that would completely mess with any player trying this. Though my kneejerk response is that they spend like a week unable to affect their environment. Surrounded by statues. I really hope that they carry regular food/water, not just something like everlasting rations which renews at dawn. Otherwise, they're going to be really hungry when they get out of it.

Regarding a double timestop.
Someone here had a story about their wizard (perhaps in 2nd ed) who would timestop at the start of a fight to buff/end the fight. The BBEG had a contingency up so that he cast timestop anytime someone else did the same. Poor player ended up facing the BBEG alone in the timestop for 3 rounds until his own ended. At which point, the BBEG had 2 rounds of his own timestop left to wreck the party

I'd say, if two people are in a timestop together (cast together or something), they can affect one another normally as if there were no timestop at all. But their ability to affect their environment/others is still limited by the timestop.

[Moriato]

This may not be the thread for it, but I wonder... what if someone tried to make time stop permanent?

Permanency has a list of spells it works on, and time stop is not one of them, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, thinking about the vulnerability to being dispelled, isn't there a metamagic feat out there that makes it so when the spell would normally be dispelled, it's instead just suppressed for a few rounds? Would that work in conjuction with permanency?

[Jack_Simth]

Permanency has a list of spells it works on, and time stop is not one of them, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, thinking about the vulnerability to being dispelled, isn't there a metamagic feat out there that makes it so when the spell would normally be dispelled, it's instead just suppressed for a few rounds? Would that work in conjuction with permanency?
Sort of (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#tenaciousMagic). It's Epic, and it only applies to one spell, but it exists.

Now, if you're using Tenacious Magic(Miracle), and you're doing things like Miracle(Read Magic), Miracle(Arcane Sight), and so on, you'll do well...

[Infernalbargain]

Permanency has a list of spells it works on, and time stop is not one of them, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, thinking about the vulnerability to being dispelled, isn't there a metamagic feat out there that makes it so when the spell would normally be dispelled, it's instead just suppressed for a few rounds? Would that work in conjuction with permanency?

While you can't make time stop permanent, you can persist it, at which point it is effectively permanent.

[Jack_Simth]

This may not be the thread for it, but I wonder... what if someone tried to make time stop permanent? I mean, not counting the difficulty in actually doing it, what would the effect be?
There's a couple of basic ways to go:

Over the course of the next eternity, you get 1d4 rounds of actions. Your next standard action is in.... 100d100 years. Roll up a new character so we can get on with the game, OK?

You now have infinity rounds of apparent time to do with as you will. Of course, you can't affect anything while it lasts. Which is forever. You've successfully pulled yourself out of the timestream completely, and can have no effect on anything at all. Roll up a new character, unless you want to dispel yourself and waste all that XP.

And variations.

[Frog Dragon]

While you can't make time stop permanent, you can persist it, at which point it is effectively permanent.
Actually, you can't. Wizards specifically said no to this at one point.

[Jack_Simth]

Actually, you can't. Wizards specifically said no to this at one point.
Sorta. Yes, the thing that said 'no persistent time stop' is on the Wizards website - however, it was The FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnDFAQ11272001.pdf) - which was, for all practical purposes, written by one person - and contains stuff that is pretty much made up - for instance, it says the Bard's Countersong is treated as a spread - which the actual rules themselves don't specify - and has such wonderful things as making critters immune to critical hits also immune to the ranger's favored enemy damage bonus.

Not everyone accepts the FAQ.

[Moriato]

and has such wonderful things as making critters immune to critical hits also immune to the ranger's favored enemy damage bonus.


Really? That used to be true in 3.0, I wonder if it's a holdover that never got updated.

[Jack_Simth]

Really? That used to be true in 3.0, I wonder if it's a holdover that never got updated.
Ah, looks like it is. The 3.0 version of the FAQ said you can't persist Time Stop, so that's the one that came up on Google. The 3.5 FAQ doesn't appear to address the Time Stop / Persistent Spell issue at all. Sorry, my bad on the Ranger bit. That was officially reversed (at least as far as the FAQ is concerned).

Ah, relatively recent FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a

[Firechanter]

and has such wonderful things as making critters immune to critical hits also immune to the ranger's favored enemy damage bonus.

Really? oÔ Heavens, the FAQ just lost 100 Cred points with me. It is obvious that 3.5 wanted to do away with this idiotic restriction. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I will take the FAQ with a much larger grain of salt now.

[Jack_Simth]

Really? oÔ Heavens, the FAQ just lost 100 Cred points with me. It is obvious that 3.5 wanted to do away with this idiotic restriction. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I will take the FAQ with a much larger grain of salt now.
I was actually looking at the wrong FAQ - the final 3.5 FAQ had since reversed that particular ruling.

[Curmudgeon]

The FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnDFAQ11272001.pdf) ... has such wonderful things as making critters immune to critical hits also immune to the ranger's favored enemy damage bonus.
The Ranger's favored enemy ability has been recategorized; it was precision damage in 3.0, but not in 3.5 D&D.

From Improved Manyshot [Epic] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedManyshot):

Special: Regardless of the number of arrows you fire, you only apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage or the ranger’s favored enemy bonus) once. Creatures that are not subject to critical hits are not subject to precision damage, so that would provide different consequences depending on the status of the favored enemy ability.

[Narylinn]

Resurrecting thread for anyone else who happens to find it as a search result.


Just remember that Permanency can be dispelled by a Dispel Magic.

It sucks.

Edit: Now I'm confused, because I see that further up in the description of permanency in the section about applying it to spells made permanent on the caster, it says "This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell." This seems to contradict the "not on you" part further down. Was this addressed in any errata, or is there something I'm misunderstanding?

Original post:
The spell description of permanency explicitly says "Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal." Unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this would mean that if you'd made, e.g., resistance permanent on yourself by having cast permanency, it could not be dispelled by dispel magic, but if you'd made it permanent on another creature, it could be. Thus, permanency works just fine for spells like arcane sight, comprehend languages, etc. since they couldn't be dispelled so easily. (My assumption is that the statement would also mean those permanent personal spells would likewise could not be removed by greater dispel magic, but probably would be by Mordenkainen's/mage's disjunction.) You would still be vulnerable to reciprocal gyre, though you'd still be fine having permanent versions of detect magic, read magic, and resistance on yourself since they're all 0-level spells and reciprocal gyre does damage by spell levels of active spells, so presumably 0-level spells don't matter for its effect.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Say you hired an NPC Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to use Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) on you at some point after casting the following spell (and thus you no longer need to retain the feats used to cast it):

Detect Magic, with Snowcasting (Frostburn), Sculpt Spell: 20 ft. radius spread (+1, CA), Selective Spell (+1, SS), Flash Frost Spell (+1, PH2), Explosive Spell (+2, CA), Energy Substitution: Electricity (CA), Born of the Three Thunders (CA), Fell Drain Spell (+2, LM), Fell Frighten Spell (+2, LM), Fell Weaken Spell (+1, LM), Widen Spell (+3, PHB), Sanctum Spell (CA), Invisible Spell (CS), Heighten Spell (+9, PHB), Earth Spell, and Arcane Thesis (PH2). Plus Permanency.

If you have Incantatrix (PGtF) for Metamagic Effect, you could add those to the spell after it's cast. Otherwise be sure you have enough feats (or metamagic rods) to have all of the above at the same time, or pick feats to exclude starting with Fell Drain/Frighten/Weaken, or Sculpt and Explosive and Selective. You could also say you hired one or more NPC Incantatrix to use Cooperative Metamagic to apply one or more of those metamagic feats to the spell when you cast it.

Have the Swift Concentration skill trick (CS), this you'll keep forever. Skill tricks only cost two skill points, take any you think will be useful.

What this does: You concentrate on your permanent Detect Magic to make it active for the current round (swift action with Swift Concentration). Heighten 9th + Sanctum + Earth Spell makes it an 11th level spell, it ignores spell resistance. In a 40-ft. radius spread around your character that excludes your character (not your square, just you), it covers the area in invisible frost forcing balance checks (Invisible, Flash Frost), deals 11 sonic damage and 11 electric damage to everyone in the area with no save (Flash Frost, Energy Substitution, Three Thunders), and anything damaged by it is Shaken (Fell Frighten), receives a negative level (Fell Drain), and takes a -4 penalty to strength (Fell Weaken). All creatures in the area (except yourself) who take damage from it must also make a Fortitude save or be stunned (Three Thunders), any who failed that must also make a Reflex save or be knocked prone (Three Thunders), and any who fail that Reflex save are also knocked away from you to the outer edge of the spell's effect, taking damage for the distance traveled (Explosive).

This is an effect you can activate as often as you want by concentrating on the Detect Magic, and once per encounter you can do so as a swift action with Swift Concentration. A given creature may only be affected by this spell's Fell Frighten/Drain/Weaken effect once ever, but all the other effects will be delivered each time it's activated.

[Mr Adventurer]

I don't think whether you were concentrating would make a difference. You'd be a real party pooper.

[Roland St. Jude]

Resurrecting thread for anyone else who happens to find it as a search result.Sheriff: Don't do that.