[IDEA] Anti-Marvel & Anti-DC

[Eerie]

No, it doesn`t mean I hate comics.

The idea is this: to take a comicbook universe and flip the characters around on the Good-Evil axis, while leaving as much as possible unchanged. Basically, the more good a hero was in the original, the more evil he\she will be in the anti-universe, and vice versa.

So, in DC Batman is now the main Gotham villian, only hindered by the valiant actions of Joker, while in Marvel Deadpool remains exactly the same as he was before. :smallbiggrin: Et cetera.

One interesting consequence of this flip is that now there are more superheroes than supervillians, but superheroes on average are weaker.

What do you think? Worth developing?

[Lord Raziere]

.....I COULD see a lovable fool type of Joker person who genuinely wants to cheer up the world with his ranks and jokes while fending off the Dark Knight using trickery and indy ploy.

and all the other villains would be easily infuriated by all the Jokers trickery and prankery and would basically be tricked and trapped into defeat while Batman would be that one guy who keeps his cool and matches him, the one guy whom the Joker believes he can truly redeem using the power of laughter, which is why the Joker won't kill anyone because he believes if he can make them happy they can be redeemed into good people.

[Traab]

Metropolis would have to be sheathed in kryptonite in order to survive. /shiver To elaborate more, that would actually be quite badass. Lex Luthor, the billionaire industrialist, is constantly developing new technology to fend off the advances of this horrific alien invader, bent on destroying them all. Did lex form his own anti justice league in the comics at one point? Basically his own crew of super villains? We would have to bump them up a bit more with some higher end luthor tech, but they could make a semi effective deterrent for supes.

[Blackjackg]

I'm pretty sure that the Joker as a hero (or rather, anti-hero) would basically be Moore's Comedian.

Marvel's done a number of those inversions with their various alternate universes (go go eXiles!). My favorites are the ones with evil Professor X... that dude can be pretty badass when he wants to be. And isn't that pretty much what DC's Bizarro universe is all about?

Always a fun thought experiment, though.

[Eerie]

Metropolis would have to be sheathed in kryptonite in order to survive. /shiver

Awesome, the Emerald City. :smallbiggrin:



To elaborate more, that would actually be quite badass. Lex Luthor, the billionaire industrialist, is constantly developing new technology to fend off the advances of this horrific alien invader, bent on destroying them all.

Actually, I imagine an evil Superman to be more like the original Doctor Doom, or the "Red Son" Superman. Very-Lawful Evil, in other words.

I wonder what evil Wonder Woman would be like...

[Eerie]

I'm pretty sure that the Joker as a hero (or rather, anti-hero) would basically be Moore's Comedian.

I don`t think so. We are inversing the Good-Evil axis. Joker was very evil, so the anti-Joker will have to be very good (though still every bit as chaotic). Not at all like the Comedian was.

[Eerie]

.....I COULD see a lovable fool type of Joker person who genuinely wants to cheer up the world with his ranks and jokes while fending off the Dark Knight using trickery and indy ploy.

and all the other villains would be easily infuriated by all the Jokers trickery and prankery and would basically be tricked and trapped into defeat while Batman would be that one guy who keeps his cool and matches him, the one guy whom the Joker believes he can truly redeem using the power of laughter, which is why the Joker won't kill anyone because he believes if he can make them happy they can be redeemed into good people.

Damn, that`s a great vision. And "why so serious?" in this case won`t be ironic, but a genuine question Joker wants the Dark Knight to answer.

[Prime32]

DC has done this plenty.
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Crime_Syndicate
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Crime_Syndicate_of_AmeriKa

[Eerie]

Well, I would be surprised in no one done it, the idea is kinda on the surface. :smallsmile:

[Kato]

Yay, just Imagine the Fearsome Four (including the hideous Thing (it's even more evil than it looks)) endangering the world protect by Victor Doom, er... Bless? Joy? Happiness? Seems like something's wrong there. Okay, maybe it won't work for everyone. Of course X-Men would be rather easy with the mutant teams just switching sides, overall.
Oh, I got one: Venom vs Spiderman! The evil spider fighting the alien trying tp protect the world (ond of course the alien was originally part of the evil spider) Sure, why not? Doc Oc and the others would be nice support cast.

[The Glyphstone]

Dr. Doom can still be Dr. Doom - Doom is his given name, after all. He's just good, a wise and benevolent ruler of Latveria who employs his technical genius to make the country a miniature utopian paradise, and is constantly fending off the Fearsome Four as they attack and terrorize his people out of jealousy or evilness.

[Eerie]

Victor Doom, er... Bless? Joy? Happiness? Seems like something's wrong there. Okay, maybe it won't work for everyone.

I think it`s better to leave the evil name, but come with an alternative explanation.

But ye, evil Captain America vs. good Red Skull - that would be hard to explain. :smallsmile:

[Jallorn]

Self proclaimed Captain America sees himself as the champion of the common people against the corrupt and manipulative government that has destroyed everything America stands for. Red Skull, well, since there have been several, why not a new one? Red Skull is a government agent in command of an agency not unlike the good SHIELD (assuming SHIELD becomes evil with Fury), who is simply trying to maintain an unstable country and minimize civilian casualties in the face of Captain America's "greater good" crusade.

[Lord Raziere]

No maybe he would be called Doctor Doom because that is what he brings to evil.

He would dwell in a big iron tower and would go around building defenses in the city around him, the citizenry would see him a shining example of progress and humanity and he would basically be doing everything in his power to improve the worlds technology to fight the superhuman threats while forever staving off threats with his intelligence like good Lex Luthor.

as for Spiderman, he would be a power-crazed youth corrupted by the mutation believing that with great power comes the ability to not have responsibility.
The Green Goblin would be Osborn alternate persona constantly telling him to be better and be the best human that he can possibly be.
Doc Oct would be the guy who created sustainable free energy for everyone of course.

As for Captain America, simple he hates the modern world so he wants to bring it down so that it resembles the old 1940's he remembers, too caught up in his nostalgia and old ways to change to the modern world.

[turkishproverb]

Yay, just Imagine the Fearsome Four (including the hideous Thing (it's even more evil than it looks)) endangering the world protect by Victor Doom, er... Bless? Joy? Happiness? Seems like something's wrong there. Okay, maybe it won't work for everyone. Of course X-Men would be rather easy with the mutant teams just switching sides, overall.
Oh, I got one: Venom vs Spiderman! The evil spider fighting the alien trying tp protect the world (ond of course the alien was originally part of the evil spider) Sure, why not? Doc Oc and the others would be nice support cast.

Doctor Iron. There's an alternate continuity with what you've described.

[Mewtarthio]

as for Spiderman, he would be a power-crazed youth corrupted by the mutation believing that with great power comes the ability to not have responsibility.

Nah, for Spidey, I'd go for something more along the lines of:

Uncle Ben's words came back to him. "With great power, comes great responsibility." As he looked at the killer's face, Peter knew he'd forgotten that responsibility, and now his uncle was dead because of it.

Well, no more.

He rained blow after blow on the killer's head, each one enhanced with the proportional strength of a spider, that horrible, haunting face was unrecognizable. He looked grimly over his work. Not enough. No, it was nowhere near enough. The city was full of criminals just like this one. And he, the Amazing Spider-Man, had the power to stop them. The responsibility to stop them. He would make sure they never hurt anyone again.

It's really scary how little you have to change to make Spidey turn evil, to be honest.

[turkishproverb]

...

So...spiderman is the crossbreed of Batman and the punisher?

Huh.

[Julian84]

Hmm how about:

Tony Stark, a vicious, self-absorbed industrialist tries to use his villainous alter-ego, Iron Man, to destroy small communities and villages in rural parts of asia. After massacring a village, he unwittingly leaves behind one boy, who swears to protect the innocent and have his vengeance against Iron Man. Using the old magic of his people, he forges a new identity, the Emerald Avenger, the Ringed Savior, The Mandarin!

[Kato]

Hehehe, I love the idea of Captain America going crazy and trying to bring back 'good old times' as in murdering Russians, Chinese, Germans., etc, putting women back in the kitchen, afro-americans... okay, I'll stop that one here, you know what I mean... and the youth away from all that modern stuff which has destroyed society.Though, I have a hard time imagining this as a serious scenario.


Of course Ironman would be an easy victim... just more Tony stark and less Ironman. Everyone would hate him for being a self-absorbed prick.

[turkishproverb]

Huh. I just inspired turning Mandarin into batman. This feels weird.

Let me try one.

Matt Murdock had grown up on the streets. Week after week, he'd worked hard to get good grades, thinking his father was working equally hard as a prize-fighter. He'd once seen his father beating a man up, extorting money for a crime boss. He ran, getting slammed in the face by a dropped container from an unmarked turck. losing his sight, and gaining enhanced senses and a radarlike ability in return. His father had promised him never to do it again. His father promised him, crying, that he would stop, that he would earn his way honestly, and made him promise to do so as well.

And he tried. He honed his body and mind. A couple years later, his enhanced hearing detected his father refusing to throw a fight for his old boss. The next time Matt saw his father, he was dead. Matt hardened. Virtue, he realized. Honesty and playing it strait got you only pain and loss in this world. He wouldn't be hurt like that again. He trained his body harder than ever, and he listened to the world around him. Even as he moved to college he remembered the names he had heard. Low level dealers and their suppliers, mob bosses and enforcers.

He returned with a law degree, and set up shop in his old neighborhood. He took jobs defending mobsters, using every legal trick in the book, as well as several far outside it, to get them off. At night, he rained terror down upon the police and high level mobsters alike, a demonic visage demanding their loyalty as he continued to push out across his neighborhood and into the rest of the city. The mob were worried by this new influence. A masked man taking over their world.

Meanwhile Murdock ingratiated himself with the local mob, becoming indispensable. Eventually he found the voice he'd heard ordering his father to throw the fight. A deep rumble coming from an extremely large man. The next day, he pointed out several disloyal members of Fisks organization. Fisk was pleased, and shouldered him with more work. Soon Murdock had the single greatest knowledge of Fisk's empire on the planet.

He cleaned him out. Stocks were found sold, businesses changed hands a dozen times. Fisk, once a king of the underworld, had been reduced greatly. The next day he found a group of of his associates in his offices. They wanted to know why Fisk had double crossed him. Auditors appeared, asking questions about his funds disappearance, the sales allegedly earning him money.

He was under many charges of tax evasion and other white collar crimes when he was found dead. beaten and shot execution style. The mob was believed responsible. No single family head took responsibility, and distrust built between them

The mob, meanwhile, found Murdock, seemingly innocent in this, got off free, and the remaining mobsters continued to let him cycle their money and defend their men, allowing him access to their information.

Meanwhile, A devil was seen frequently. Yelling at cops, killing attorneys. The families of Mob bosses were found sprayed along the walls. Notes written in blood warned of obedience to the Devil.

Assassins were hired, and beaten to death in front of building serving as fronts. Mostly the mob moved the bodies, but occasionally the police caught on, and raided locations in the process.

The old families were falling, either dead or implicated. More and more Middlemen found themselves dealing with the horned man. More and more suppliers find themselves dealing with a new supplier. More and more Cops found themselves accepting bribes from the scarlet figure in the shadows.

Quiet Matt Murdock, the lawyer who makes point of not being able to see anything, remains neutral, accepting funds for his special brand of defense from whoever offers.

On the streets, the Devil is king. A linchpin that has forced itself into the criminal tapestry, forcing the others out as it did so.



This is New York, where Devil rules from his seat in Hells Kitchen.

[Fjolnir]

I think in MarEVIL, New York looks like "Escape from New York" since a large amount of superheroes operate out of the area, many of whom have global intentions.

Space travel would either be better or worse with the great and benevolent skrull empire, but you would still have to deal with black bolt and the inhumans on the moon...

Also you would just swap Shield and Hydra on the axis, "The boys in green put up the good fight today against Fury's forces"

[Prime32]

Marvel 1602 (http://marvel.wikia.com/Earth-311) has a gentle Hulk as the alter-ego of a rapist Banner.

Marvel: Noir (http://marvel.wikia.com/Earth-7207) has an evil X-Men and a (sort of) good Brotherhood of Mutants. Minus the mutant powers.

[Traab]

The Planet Krypton exploded, annihilating all but one baby, never knowing the truth. Never knowing that the only thing that kept their people from tearing apart the world in super powered terror was their red sun. With its leading scientist Jor-El never guessing the horror he would unleash upon the cosmos, by sending his child to a planet with a yellow sun instead.

Clark was always a bit strange growing up. Odd things would happen around him. And as he grew older, he seemed to grow darker, even as his powers kept pace. He would smile less, scowl more. His temper became more easily frayed, and he was more willing to unleash his strength upon those he felt deserved it. It all came to a head one day, when he learned an industrialist by the name of Lionel Luthor had bought his parents mortgage right out from under them, with the intention of levelling the house he grew up in, and building a new strip mall in its stead. He cornered Lionel, and brutally beat the man to death, crushing him with his strength, then burning the body to ash. Unfortunately, this was all caught on camera. His parents repudiated him, the police were hunting him, and lionels son made a vow that no longer would super powered criminals be able to so easily destroy the citizens of his city.

Spurned by his family, hunted by the law, Clark took on a new name, a new identity. From his fortress of solitude, suspected to be hidden somewhere in antartica, a new threat looms. Lord Krypton, who has sworn to see luthor industries, and all who support him destroyed for ruining his life.

Yeah the name sucks, but I couldnt think of something other than superman, and I wanted a different name, its just not scary enough for a villain with that level of power.

[ArlEammon]

Magneto
Magneto, surviving the Holocaust of Hitler's III Reich, is much the same, only he realizes that Charles is not his enemy. There is no "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" there is only "The Brotherhood of Mutants". He travels Earth rescuing Mutants from corrupt Governments, and has built his own society of Mutants, safe from the persecution of the mundanes. Magneto may apply methods which Charles would object to, but he would never kill anyone who wasn't a threat or isn't in the way. Magneto's government is a Republic, much like the United State's. Those who threaten his society of Mutants are still dealt with accordingly, however.

[The Glyphstone]

The Planet Krypton exploded, annihilating all but one baby, never knowing the truth. Never knowing that the only thing that kept their people from tearing apart the world in super powered terror was their red sun. With its leading scientist Jor-El never guessing the horror he would unleash upon the cosmos, by sending his child to a planet with a yellow sun instead.

Clark was always a bit strange growing up. Odd things would happen around him. And as he grew older, he seemed to grow darker, even as his powers kept pace. He would smile less, scowl more. His temper became more easily frayed, and he was more willing to unleash his strength upon those he felt deserved it. It all came to a head one day, when he learned an industrialist by the name of Lionel Luthor had bought his parents mortgage right out from under them, with the intention of levelling the house he grew up in, and building a new strip mall in its stead. He cornered Lionel, and brutally beat the man to death, crushing him with his strength, then burning the body to ash. Unfortunately, this was all caught on camera. His parents repudiated him, the police were hunting him, and lionels son made a vow that no longer would super powered criminals be able to so easily destroy the citizens of his city.

Spurned by his family, hunted by the law, Clark took on a new name, a new identity. From his fortress of solitude, suspected to be hidden somewhere in antartica, a new threat looms. Lord Krypton, who has sworn to see luthor industries, and all who support him destroyed for ruining his life.

Yeah the name sucks, but I couldnt think of something other than superman, and I wanted a different name, its just not scary enough for a villain with that level of power.

Superman still works as a name, you just change the intent. He's not a superpowered man, he's superior to man, better and stronger and deserving of ruling over them. An Ubermensch attitude, rather than a protector - like how Red Son did it, but more selfish. Lord Krypton sounds like a cheesy evil overlord, to be honest.

[grimbold]

this is an interesting idea
which is probably why its already been done for most major characters :)
but i think if there was an entire universe like that it would be even cooler

[Jeivar]

The wild but noble Sabretooth squares off against his nemesis Wolverine; A former friend driven insane by the horrible experiment that made him nearly indestructible and gave him giant talons. Now he's on a gory rampage, killing sometimes for money and sometimes for fun, and always bragging "I'm the best there is at what I do!"

Only the similarly powered but killable Sabretooth can stop him.

[AtlanteanTroll]

A good Phoenix? Dear sweet Gods of Olympus, that'd be creepy.

[TheThan]

The X-men
The xmen twist xavier’s dream from one of peaceful human/mutant coexistence into a dream of mutant supremacy. Think Magneto here, instead of trying to be the voice of reason they are a rallying point for genetic terrorism.

Spiderman: Wealthy industrialist Norman Osborn takes up the mantle of the Green goblin in order to rid New York of the Spiderman, who has been terrorizing the city for years with his high flying acrobatic crime.

The punisher: no change, Frank Castle is a vigilante; he fully believes that the means justify the ends. So he’s

Dr. Doom: Dr. Doom would easily be a man trying to bring peace to war torn Eastern Europe. He would be using his mastery of technology and sorcery to bring about world peace, while maintaining each nation’s own sovereignty and independence.

[Eerie]

A good Phoenix? Dear sweet Gods of Olympus, that'd be creepy.

Good Nitro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitro_%28comics%29) would be weird. He fight evil by... well... suicide-bombing it. :smallamused:

[Traab]

The X-men
The xmen twist xavier’s dream from one of peaceful human/mutant coexistence into a dream of mutant supremacy. Think Magneto here, instead of trying to be the voice of reason they are a rallying point for genetic terrorism.

Spiderman: Wealthy industrialist Norman Osborn takes up the mantle of the Green goblin in order to rid New York of the Spiderman, who has been terrorizing the city for years with his high flying acrobatic crime.

The punisher: no change, Frank Castle is a vigilante; he fully believes that the means justify the ends. So he’s

Dr. Doom: Dr. Doom would easily be a man trying to bring peace to war torn Eastern Europe. He would be using his mastery of technology and sorcery to bring about world peace, while maintaining each nation’s own sovereignty and independence.


No, the xmen are Xaviers cadre of mind controlled and brain washed followers. His goal? To eventually control the world, whether behind the scenes as the puppet master of various mind controlled world leaders, or directly as the emperor of earth.

Frank Castle felt he was betrayed by the police he used to work for. None of them were there to protect his family, none of them were interested in catching his families killers. SCREW THE LAW! Now Frank is The Punisher. A man willing to kill anyone he feels deserves it. He slaughters slimy defense lawyers, bought off prosecutors, dirty cops, and the clean ones who dont stop them. He will kill ANYONE he sees as doing wrong, criminal, cop, or that random civillian who just looks away when he sees a purse snatcher run off with some old ladies bag.

[Dr.Epic]

Yeah this idea totally hasn't been done before. *cough* Bizarro Superman *cough*

[Jeivar]

A good Phoenix? Dear sweet Gods of Olympus, that'd be creepy.

A super-telepath mutant messiah wreathed in flame? INTERESTING I say. :)

[Dr.Epic]

You know, this could be fun. Let's do this for some Alan Moore characters:

-Rorschach
-Adrian Veidt
-Codename V

Alright, let's reverse their alignment. First step, determining their alignment.

[Jeivar]

You know, this could be fun. Let's do this for some Alan Moore characters:

-Rorschach
-Adrian Veidt
-Codename V

Alright, let's reverse their alignment. First step, determining their alignment.

. . . okay, those are some of the most morally ambiguous characters EVER. The opposite of neutral is still neutral. I don't think there's any point in trying to reverse those fellas.

[Mewtarthio]

Frank Castle felt he was betrayed by the police he used to work for. None of them were there to protect his family, none of them were interested in catching his families killers. SCREW THE LAW! Now Frank is The Punisher. A man willing to kill anyone he feels deserves it. He slaughters slimy defense lawyers, bought off prosecutors, dirty cops, and the clean ones who dont stop them. He will kill ANYONE he sees as doing wrong, criminal, cop, or that random civillian who just looks away when he sees a purse snatcher run off with some old ladies bag.

Actually, he's now only slightly more unhinged than regular Frank Castle. The whole thing doesn't really work when you throw the antiheroes into the mix. Except for the 90's/Image antiheroes, whose are rather decidedly on the side of evil, but nobody wants to think about those.

[Prime32]

. . . okay, those are some of the most morally ambiguous characters EVER. The opposite of neutral is still neutral. I don't think there's any point in trying to reverse those fellas.The opposite of Rorschach, I'd say, would be a pleasant man with no sense of right or wrong.

[Jallorn]

The opposite of Rorschach, I'd say, would be a pleasant man with no sense of right or wrong.

Except the idea here isn't total opposites, it's good guys become bad guys and visa-versa without changing much in each characters' backstories.

[Dr.Epic]

. . . okay, those are some of the most morally ambiguous characters EVER. The opposite of neutral is still neutral. I don't think there's any point in trying to reverse those fellas.

See what you did there: you made an assumption about the alignment of an Alan Moore character. This thread is about to be derailed by people commenting about how they're Good/Lawful/Neutral/Evil/Chaotic. It's already begun.

[Traab]

Actually, he's now only slightly more unhinged than regular Frank Castle. The whole thing doesn't really work when you throw the antiheroes into the mix. Except for the 90's/Image antiheroes, whose are rather decidedly on the side of evil, but nobody wants to think about those.

I admit to not reading a lot of punisher comics, but isnt he basically the mass murderer of criminals now? Crime bosses, dons and their familes, street gangs, that sort of thing? In this one he is killing EVERYBODY. Its like the robot santa claus from futurama, everyone is on his naughty list for SOMETHING. Everyone is guilty of some misdeed and thats good enough for him. Hes a total psychopath. About the only thing that stops it from being a one man genocide is he usually looks for targets separately instead of just opening fire in time square or something.

As an example, he sees a tv news article about how some crime boss got off due to the efforts of his lawyer and one of the cops suddenly changing his story. He does some research, learns the cop was bribed, and then he goes out and kills all three of them. He sees a purse snatcher run by and he shoots him in the head, along with everyone who didnt at least TRY to stop him. "All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing." In franks mind that makes the good men just as guilty. He is so screwed in the head that he actually thinks he is doing the right thing. In his mind, if he kills enough people, maybe the rest of the world will start doing the right thing! That would hardly make him the first super villain with a messed up view of reality.

[Mina Kobold]

Actually, he's now only slightly more unhinged than regular Frank Castle. The whole thing doesn't really work when you throw the antiheroes into the mix. Except for the 90's/Image antiheroes, whose are rather decidedly on the side of evil, but nobody wants to think about those.

They could be anti-villains? Villains who want to do evil but still end up doing more good despite it.

Or maybe villains with good publicity, saving puppies but using them for evil super-serum tests?

Also, evil Runaways would be interesting.

Learning that their parents are a secret group of heroes protecting the city the kids decide to flee their houses with stolen tech and their newfound powers to cruise around the city and have some fun. But their parents are always on their tail about their criminal behavior as they almost literaly set the town on fire.

Soon the villains of New York hear about it and sends two among them out to recruit them.

[chiasaur11]

Victor Von Doom has been mentioned already, but really?

He's probably the biggest player. Unbreakable will, all kinds of deals with supernatural entities, second greatest scientific mind in the world?

Scary guy. Give him a conscience firmer than his ego, and he's probably the world's greatest hero.

Figure it would just be one different moment in college. A what if pointed out all that has to happen is "My math's wrong? Anything's possible. Wow, thanks!" and he's over his belief in his own perfection, his one major fault. He'll have a purpose, and a duty to the world around him

Evil Richards? He's probably much less involved than regular Reed. Some dank basement, doing abstract science with no concern for the world at all, or what happens when he sells a deathray to SHIELD for mutant cleansing. No active malice, but a mind that brilliant selling tech to any crime syndicate that'll pay? Bad enough without it.

Evil Ben Grimm? Worthless self pitying drunk.

Meanwhile, Sue and Johnny try to be heroes, get framed by Skrulls, and whoopsie daisy, Johnny takes to fugitive criminal better than he should. As the only family he's got left, Sue sticks by him. Reed's responsible for the mess. He provides the payroll. No Fantastic Four, per se.

Evil Stark is probably a free agent most of the time. He's looking out for the bottom line, loose women, and probably will eventually drink himself to death, ridding the world of the issue. If the Stanes and Hammers of the world try to bring him down and free the defense work for honest businessmen, they might have a shot. If his "bodyguard" doesn't deal with them, that is.

Marvel Captain Marvel would just get disillusioned with humanity, and want to ensure its extinction. Figure leaving the broad strokes of space politics the same would work better. Gets far too thorny for the simple moral invert.

Evil Rom Spaceknight is ridding the galaxy of Dire Wraiths... by ensuring they have no species to hide among. Galidor will be safe from their threat, no matter who has to die to make that the case.

Dire Wraiths? Still pure evil. They're the ruttin' Dire Wraiths. They don't do nice.

Death's Head is also identical. In fact, he's probably the original stopping off in bizarroverse for a quick buck after killing his doppleganger

Alternate Highest Anti Terrorism Effort is, in fact, releasing unusual weapons of mass destruction on America to save it from itself, rather than deluded to insane. Devil Dinosaur's mad plot is the best chance to save the world.

Nextwave knows this. They just don't particularly car. Monsters to beat up, places to go, it's the best job in the world.

[AtlanteanTroll]

So, an evil Silver Surfer and a good Galactus. Someone please figure out how this works. Please. You'll get a Cookie. :smallbiggrin:

[Prime32]

So, an evil Silver Surfer and a good Galactus. Someone please figure out how this works. Please. You'll get a Cookie. :smallbiggrin:Exiles did it. (http://marvel.wikia.com/Exiles_Vol_1_87)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Galactus_%28Earth-552%29

[Traab]

So, an evil Silver Surfer and a good Galactus. Someone please figure out how this works. Please. You'll get a Cookie. :smallbiggrin:


Galactus targets worlds overwhelmed by evil. Darkseids planets, anything the brood have taken over, things like that. Realms of horror and pain and death. Though, I suppose in THIS universe, its the New Genesis worlds that good galactus takes over. Thank god Darkseid is there to protect the universe from new genesis' depredations.

[Psyren]

It's really scary how little you have to change to make Spidey turn evil, to be honest.

He made a deal with the devil, after all.

:trollface:

[Dr.Epic]

He made a deal with the devil, after all.

:trollface:

That, like the Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels, never happened.:smallannoyed:

[Prime32]

"Aaaaah! Save me, Lord Mephisto!"
http://marvel.wikia.com/Peter_Parker_%28Earth-615.9%29

[Androgeus]

That, like the Star Wars prequels and Matrix sequels, never happened.:smallannoyed:

The universe is a better place when you deny things that happened.... waaait

[BlackDragonKing]

This is an interesting idea...

Perhaps Anti-Wonder Woman would be much like an actual Greek Goddess; the kind that does whatever the hell she wants and doesn't have any compunctions about doing horrible things to mortals that annoy her.

Hey, Athena turned a woman into a spider for beating her in a contest and made Medusa into a monster for the crime of being a rape victim, and Apollo had a guy beheaded because he equalled him in a fair musical contest until Apollo cheated. Someone imbued with the qualities of the greek gods could just as easily be a depraved, invidious, spiteful hedonist as a defender of truth and justice...

Maybe I'm just speaking as a huge Neil Gaiman fanboy, but I think it might be interesting if the first Despair of The Endless's plan had worked when she set off the events that led to Krypton's destruction and Superman coming to Earth; rather than a paragon of hope and a just defender of the weak, the despair of what happened turned Superman (possibly an older Kal-El who was at least a boy instead of a baby when Krypton was destroyed) into a nihilist that abuses his powers.

The Jokester and Owlman are both concepts that have been explored, but I'd be curious to see how things would go if we turned the rest of the Rogues Gallery of the Batman 'verse upside down. Harley Quinn as the Jokester's sidekick after he rescued her, perhaps? Maybe alternate Poison Ivy would believe that all life was sacred, not just plant life, and be trying to both combat the physical filth in the form of pollution and deforestation but also the moral filth of Owlman and his like. It'd also make a not-killing stance make perfect sense for her; someone that would be saddened by the death of a daisy wouldn't have it in her to kill even the worst criminals, but she would have it in her to stop them from hurting others.

As for Anti-Bane, perhaps if he had grown up outside of prison, with someone that encouraged both his strength and intellect but also gave him a strong sense of honor and justice, he could serve as the Anti-DC's batman stand in even better than the Joker.

[AtlanteanTroll]

As for Anti-Bane, perhaps if he had grown up outside of prison, with someone that encouraged both his strength and intellect but also gave him a strong sense of honor and justice, he could serve as the Anti-DC's batman stand in even better than the Joker.

See, Bane's a problem. He's been a good guy at points.

[Julian84]

Hmm, going after Dr. Epic and Prime 32's Rorschach (in which he's a pleasant enough guy with no sense of right or wrong), I suddenly decided he sounds like a serial killer. :smalleek:

As for Veidt, he's already evil, so to speak, or at most chaotic neutral. So wouldn't he be a full-fledged good guy?

Evil V would just be a brutal vigilante who goes after racial and social minorities and kills off the leaders of England's just government.

Edit: And isn't Hope Summers basically the idea of a good phoenix? :smallconfused:

Though a good phoenix would totally be cool, but she would probably be a Mary Sue.

... Good Phoenix vs. Evil Hope. The mind, it is blown.

[Traab]

See, Bane's a problem. He's been a good guy at points.

Every character has switched roles at some point or another.

[Yora]

Magneto
Magneto, surviving the Holocaust of Hitler's III Reich, is much the same, only he realizes that Charles is not his enemy. There is no "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" there is only "The Brotherhood of Mutants". He travels Earth rescuing Mutants from corrupt Governments, and has built his own society of Mutants, safe from the persecution of the mundanes. Magneto may apply methods which Charles would object to, but he would never kill anyone who wasn't a threat or isn't in the way. Magneto's government is a Republic, much like the United State's. Those who threaten his society of Mutants are still dealt with accordingly, however.
I think X-Men would pretty much be the same, only with the sides switch. It's one of the few superhero franchises I like because both heroes and villains are in a somewhat grey area but eventually have the same goal but chosing different ways of agression and appeasement. I have no problem imagining Cyclops and Wolverine as cold blooded murderers, while having Mystique and Sabretooth trying to stop them.

It would probably more interesting to have only half of each teams switching sides while leaving the other half on their own side and exploring the new group dynamics.

Maybe I'm just speaking as a huge Neil Gaiman fanboy, but I think it might be interesting if the first Despair of The Endless's plan had worked when she set off the events that led to Krypton's destruction and Superman coming to Earth; rather than a paragon of hope and a just defender of the weak, the despair of what happened turned Superman (possibly an older Kal-El who was at least a boy instead of a baby when Krypton was destroyed) into a nihilist that abuses his powers.
Imagine an evil Death! :smalleek:

The universe is a bearable place since no matter what, at the end there's a kind woman who feels compassion for all the dying. If she turns evil, than it's a bleak universe indeed.

[Sotharsyl]

An alternate Spider-Man,different power source and a mix of his original back story and one of the most talked about new arcs:
"With great power also comes great responsibility" that is what his Uncle Ben taught him but should it not follow that when the Universe bestows upon someone great responsibility they should choose someone with great powers or at least bestow them upon him after the responsibility.

Uncle Ben could probably clear this up for him,if he wasn't a still warm corpse wright now,the first of the family to confront the criminals in a attempt to save their lives from the bandits who were intent on not only stealing everything in the house but also murdering all the witnesses.

Peter,who originally had planned to skip out and go to a wrestling match,also jumped into the fray but his attempts at fighting were ineffectual to say the least so the thug he was fighting merely broke his kneecaps for now while his uncle got a skull shattering blow to the head.

The bespectacled teen could only watch as the killers were debating his aunt's fate,as in what they would do to her before killing her,and desperately think only one thing "Responsibility,Responsibility,Responsibility but no Power".

The world may laugh at puny Peter Parker,but let them laugh his intelligence and knowledge of physics made him a geek but damn it he was the best geek there was and so he was chosen by the head cheerleader Mary-Jane to.....be the one who tutors her goth "best friend" Liz for physics.

Liz who eventually roped him into doing several ceremonies with her,no nobody was nude at those just a lot of memorizing from grimmoires and chanting and so with all the saints he knew and God himself not giving him the second part of the bargain Peter started whispering:

-"Oh lord Mephisto Prince of Lies please I offer you my soul in exchange for only power equal to my responsibility I pledge by the Dark Goat..."

Neither of the robbers lucked up to see a small spider appearing in a cloud off smoke on the ceiling and crawling towards Peter.

[Mordaenor]

Oooh! Oooh! Let me try something a little different....

In a nearly deserted part of the city stands an old, worn down building, surrounded by a high stone wall and barbed wire. Run by a corrupt police force, those kept there are tortured, brutalized, and persecuted. These so-called "heroes" have been locked away as they would see law and order torn down in the name of justice and freedom, and it is only their strength and ingenuity that helps them escape time and again to do battle with an oppressive goverment and its leaders: a cold-hearted tyrant who calls himself "Commisioner" and his chief enforcer, known only as "The Batman"

Welcome to Arkham Asylum.


Hmmmm.... not sure if that translated as well as it did in my head.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Every character has switched roles at some point or another.

Oh hey thar' Commisioner Gordon, how are you doing? Joker? Penguin?

[Mina Kobold]

Oh hey thar' Commisioner Gordon, how are you doing? Joker? Penguin?

The Joker's turned good and even sane several times now.

The rest seem to be correct, though. :smallsmile:

[H Birchgrove]

Someone wanted opposites of Alan Moore characters? :smallbiggrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w

Codename V would be a Big Brother-type dictator. Or a nationalist terrorist fighting against a multi-cultural, anarcho-syndicalist Utopian England. :smallamused:

Edit: Have I been what the cool kids call "Ninja'd"? :smallconfused:

[AtlanteanTroll]

The Joker's turned good and even sane several times now.

The rest seem to be correct, though. :smallsmile:

Huh... Well thanks. :smallredface:

Also he's always been sane, the problem is that he's too sane. Well, according to some sources.


During the events of "Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth", it was hypothesized by Arkham psychologists that the Joker actually existed in a state of almost "super-sanity". That he actually redefines his own personality every day, which explains why sometimes he appears as a horribly sadistic lunatic, and others as a simple mischievous clown.

:smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Also he's always been sane, the problem is that he's too sane. Well, according to some sources.

:smalltongue:

That changes wildly depending on who's writing him. One of the many problems I have with comics in general.

[AtlanteanTroll]

That changes wildly depending on who's writing him. One of the many problems I have with comics in general.

I said one source right? And yeah, you gotta' know what you're looking for.

[Erts]

COUGH
It's (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Owlman_(Qward)) been (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Jokester) done (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JLA:_Earth_2) before. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_on_Two_Earths) Has no one mentioned these characters and stories yet?
I think it would be nice if more stories featured these characters, but really, this has happened before. Usually they are not stand alone comics, rather, some kind of cross over. Definitely would be nice to seem them on their own without charcters crossing over.

[TheEmerged]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but has anybody mentioned the "Evil Fantastic 4" from the series Planetary? That version of Reed has a particularly twisted power remix...

[Traab]

Oh hey thar' Commisioner Gordon, how are you doing? Joker? Penguin?

Hmph, gorden doesnt count, this is superheroes and villains dammit. I dont see the commish wearing a cape and cowl, do you? And technically, I count him as switching sides every time he has randomly decided that batman is evil and needs to be arrested, when a month earlier he was eagerly activating the bat signal to get his help stopping some criminal.

[Eerie]

OMG. Can you imagine the horror that is evil Squirrel girl?

[turkishproverb]

Hmph, gorden doesnt count, this is superheroes and villains dammit. I dont see the commish wearing a cape and cowl, do you? And technically, I count him as switching sides every time he has randomly decided that batman is evil and needs to be arrested, when a month earlier he was eagerly activating the bat signal to get his help stopping some criminal.

Usually it depends upon the activity.

And gordon going evil is obvious: Nixon level bad cop.

[Gaelbert]

I'm pretty sure that the Joker as a hero (or rather, anti-hero) would basically be Moore's Comedian.

Except the Comedian wasn't supposed to be a good guy. He was evil. Maybe a more nuanced evil than most evil superhero characters, but a bad man none-the-less.

[Hadessniper]

Upright citizen Peter Parker is known by all New Yorkers to be a community leader, but in reality he is the criminal mastermind Spider-Man. When his uncle was killed young Peter Parker remembered his credo 'with great power comes great responsibility' he knew he had to do something about the wild unchecked crime in New York. He decides to gain control of it and force New York's underground to become a better class of criminal. He runs the criminal element of New York from his front business The Daily Bugle with his second in command J. Jonah Jameson.

They use their front to run a smear campaign against their greatest enemy, the green goblin. Because of this the whole on New York thinks Norman Osborn is an evil psychopath but in reality he is the only one who knows the truth about Peter Parker. Hunted by Parker's criminal empire and unjustly thought a villain by the populace he uses his homemade tech to fight a guerilla war against Spider-Man and all of his interests. The war ultimately leads to Norman accidentally killing Parker's girlfriend, Gwen Stacy, daughter of the corrupt police captain George Stacy.