Blasting sorcerer

[yugi24862]

I'm building a blaster sorcerer. Yes it has to be a blaster, but I want to optimize it. I'm starting at level 8, all books but no setting stuff. How do I go about building one?

[Lateral]

May I introduce you to the Mailman? (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

[yugi24862]

Yes, but its a kolbold. I'm in eberron and NOT being a kolbold. Thanks for the link though, some good stuff about spells there.

[Lateral]

That build's more of a supremely optimized build, but you can take pretty much everything you need to know about a blaster out of it.

[jiriku]

The kobold part is optional. You can trade your familiar for an ACF (in Races of the Dragon, I think), that gives you the Dragonblood subtype. You'd do this to qualify for the Practical Metamagic feat, which is crazy useful for blasting.

Making a blaster sorcerer is all about combining several different tools from different books into a lovely cocktail of death. Here are some key ingredients:


Spells that increase the volume of spells you can cast per round, such as arcane fusion, greater arcane fusion, and arcane spellsurge.
A prestige class that grants the Improved Metamagic feature, such as incantatrix or dweomerkeeper, or Circle Magic, such as hathran or red wizard. While most of these are Forgotten Realms-specific classes, a supportive DM may allow you to refluff them to be specific to analogous organizations from Eberron.
A small set of low- to mid-level blasting spells that deal good damage for their level, offer no save, allow no spell resistance, or deal untyped damage or force damage (if you can get several of those characteristics on one spell, so much the better)
Feats that reduce metamagic costs, such as arcane thesis, metamagic school focus, residual magic, practical metamagic, and easy metamagic (the planar bubble spell can provide free metamagic for you if you are an outsider from a plane where the right kind of magic is enhanced).
Metamagic feats that improve blasting spells, such as empower, maximize, twin, repeat, split ray, fell drain, or energy admixture.


The recipe:

1. Cast appropriate blasting spell
2. Add metamagic to increase damage output of blasting spell.
3. Use metamagic reducers to minimize or negate the increase to spell level.
4. Use spell multipliers to nova as many spells as you want/need to kill the target.
5. Target is dead. GJ.

The problem with these builds is that they're quite feat-intensive, so you need to get you some bonus feats wherever you can. Also, don't neglect good defensive spells like wings of cover, greater invisibility, greater mirror image, and dungeon delver's fortune, because you are a glass cannon and do not want to be shattered.

[Hazzardevil]

I reccomend that you, if your willing to, try silver pyromancer if you are willing to break the 1st and 5th commandment.
Mind you you've already broken the 7th or 8th so that shouldn't be too hard.
Another idea is to take frostmage from frostburn. It can be gotten into at level 6, a level earlier than most PrC's. It requires 2 feats though that require 13 con.
It is blatantly better than a level of sorcerer since at 1st level it gives you a +1 natural armour bonus to AC.

[dgnslyr]

+1 AC is not very much. That said, any PrC with no CL loss is flat out better than Sorceror, so PrC out ASAP. It's just a question of whether Frost Mage is better than, say, Intantatrix or Red Wizard or something. Still, I think I remember Frost Mage being a rather neat ice-based PrC, if that's what you're looking for.

[yugi24862]

From what I've read, its best to pick one spell and stick to it. If I take arcane thesis (Scorching ray) I can apply both searing spell and firey spell to it for free, giving me two 4d6+4 attacks on any opponent which ignore resistance and do half on immunity. So sorcerer6/incantrix2 focusing on scorching ray for damage sounds good for now, but what other spell should I take? And how can I increase my to-hit with my ranged touch attacks?

[tyckspoon]

Spells:
Wings of Flurry: Point-blank AoE, force damage, Friend-or-Foe intelligent, forces save against IIRC daze. Excellent spell when you need to blast a larger group. CL uncapped, so this one makes really good use of Arcane Thesis's CL boost.
Orb of Fire: Might consider making this your focus spell instead of Scorching Ray. It scales higher (caps at 15d6 damage) and forces a save against Daze as a rider, so it has a debuff application even without putting on Fell Frighten/Drain.

Touch Attacks: Point Blank/Precise Shot are worth considering, because chances are you'll be firing into combat fairly often (mind, if you have WBL, you can probably just buy Precise Shot on one of the archery items.) Otherwise, just keep your Dex up, and there's not too much else that is worth the cost of getting it- you could take Weapon Focus (Ray), for example, but that's a feat that could be another metamagic, or another Arcane Thesis, or Easy Metamagic (Quicken) or something far, far more useful.

[dgnslyr]

Orb of Force is usually the blast-of-choice, because it hits pretty hard (not as hard as Orb of Element, though), and it doesn't allow Spell Resistance. I don't think it offers a save either.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Orb of Force is usually the blast-of-choice, because it hits pretty hard (not as hard as Orb of Element, though), and it doesn't allow Spell Resistance. I don't think it offers a save either.

Actually Orb of Fire is better, a higher damage cap (15d6 vs. 10d6 IIRC) a much better rider (fort or Daze) and with searing spell is virtually irresistible.

[Noneoyabizzness]

How about

Rogue1/sorc4/unseen seer2/spellwarp sniper1

Can finish both prcs and get sneak attack, divine spell boosts and free known spells, DMV dice ability to turn reflex save spells to ray types and feats.


Skill points don't suck either.

[yugi24862]

The problem is that I cant apply any metamagic to those as I'm level 8 and just got level 4 casting. So I cant put any metamagic on them and only get them 3 times a day. If I Empower scorching ray I get 4d6*1.5+4 on each ray,which averages to 24 damage a ray (48 if they both hit) for a 3rd level slot.

[dgnslyr]

Actually Orb of Fire is better, a higher damage cap (15d6 vs. 10d6 IIRC) a much better rider (fort or Daze) and with searing spell is virtually irresistible.

Ah yes, I forgot about Searing Spell. Energy Substitution (or whatever it's called) is a spiffy 1-level metamagic that let's you switch the element around to whatever you need, I think, so it also gets around the whole "everything resists fire" problem. I think there are some tricks out there to get it to deal sonic damage, too, and sonic is usually considered the least-resisted of the elements, besides, you know, force. With Arcane Thesis, you can break even, and throw in Incantatrix, and you come out ahead in terms of metamagic reduction.

Anyways, Orbs are your best bet for blowing things up. Just one more way that Conjuration is better than Evocation at everything. :smallwink:

[Psyren]

Actually Orb of Fire is better, a higher damage cap (15d6 vs. 10d6 IIRC) a much better rider (fort or Daze) and with searing spell is virtually irresistible.

On the other hand, very few monsters have force resistance/immunity, saving you a feat, and you don't have a miss chance vs. incorporeals either.

[yugi24862]

At my level, orbs are lower damage than a Firey Scorching Empowered Scorching ray and not as many per-day, so cant use them yet. I will take orb of force this/next level to deal with incorpreal/ fire immune foes, but what other spell should I take?

[Dusk Eclipse]

On the other hand, very few monsters have force resistance/immunity, saving you a feat, and you don't have a miss chance vs. incorporeals either.

I would take both to be honest, orb of fore for those pesky incorporeals, and orb of fire for everything else, the save vs. Daze is just too much tempting, and with some metamagic reducers (that you will take if you are a dedicated blaster) Searing Spell won't dink into your higher level slots.

These is just my opinion though, I don't pretend they are the end to all opinions.

[tyckspoon]

At my level, orbs are lower damage than a Firey Scorching Empowered Scorching ray and not as many per-day, so cant use them yet. I will take orb of force this/next level to deal with incorpreal/ fire immune foes, but what other spell should I take?

Arcane Thesis will lower a +1 adjustment to 0, so if you wanted to make it your focus you could still cast a Fiery Searing Orb of Fire right now. Just missing out on the Empower, which is admittedly a pretty big damage boost.

..oh, and you're miscalculating your damage. The Fiery boost gets Empowered, too- see the PHB example of an Empowered Magic Missile for the basis. So you get [(4d6+4) x1.5] + [again.] Average about 27 per ray.

[yugi24862]

Good to know, just thought that if I add a Ring of mystic fire (MiC 125) I can get caster level 11 with Scorching ray, giving me my 3rd ray. If I can get my DM to allow me to take Arcane thesis instead of a meatmagic feat at incantrix 2, I'll go with the orb. So if they all hit will deal [(4d6+4) x1.5]+[(4d6+4) x1.5]+[(4d6+4) x1.5] which avrages at 78 damage, whilst fire orb would be 11d6+11 which avrages at 49 damage, but only 1 to-hit roll. less times per day thought. Which way should I go?

[tyckspoon]

Hmm. Ideally? You'd ask about retraining. Build your character with Arcane Thesis: Scorching Ray now, and in a few more levels retrain it to Orb of Fire. Best of both worlds. If you can't do that, then I'd probably go with Scorching Ray; getting the CL boosts on it makes it very efficient damage, especially for your level. Plus the ability to split targets if you want.

Do you know how fast your DM intends you to level? If it's going to be a slower game, definitely go with Scorching Ray; Orb of Fire is going to need 3-4 more levels for its higher cap to give it the edge over Scorching Ray's efficiency.

[Doc Roc]

At my level, orbs are lower damage than a Firey Scorching Empowered Scorching ray and not as many per-day, so cant use them yet. I will take orb of force this/next level to deal with incorpreal/ fire immune foes, but what other spell should I take?

Combust. Combust is the king of all seeds.
Streamers+Maximize sometime soon, if you want to laugh all the way to the bank.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Silverbrow Human (Dragon Magic), Sorcerer 8, Metamagic Specialist ACF (PH2). Any combination of full spellcasting prestige classes would also be suitable, such as Sorcerer 5/ Mindbender (CA) 1/ Incantatrix (PGtF) 2.
Two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (UA), one of which was gained at your 8th character level. Trait: Passionate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#passionate) (UA, optional). Location: Otyugh Hole (CS) to gain Iron Will for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it, optional.

Feats: Empower Spell (H), Practical Metamagic: Empower (RotD) (flaw), Widen Spell (1), Practical Metamagic: Widen (3), Sanctum Spell (CA) (6), Arcane Thesis: Wings of Flurry (PH2) (flaw).
Items: Lesser Metamagic Rod of Maximize x2
Spells Known: Wings of Flurry (RotD) (4th)

Shtick: Use Sanctum Spell outside your 'designated sanctum' to make Wings of Flurry count as a 3rd level spell, which can then be used with a lesser metamagic rod. Your metamagic costs are as follows:
Empower + Practical: +1
Widen + Practical: +2
Sanctum: +0
Lesser Metamagic Rod: +0
Arcane Thesis: -1 per metamagic feat used, but no lower than the spell's original level (3rd due to Sanctum).

That means you can cast a Maximized, Widened, Empowered, Sanctum, Wings of Flurry, at caster level 10, from a 3rd level spell slot. It hits every opponent within 60 feet of you, dealing 60+(10d6/2) untyped force damage, Reflex save (DC 13+Cha bonus) for half, on a failed save a target is dazed and unable to act for one round.

[Doc Roc]

There is a strong argument that thesis just drops the net cost by one, Biff.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There is a strong argument that thesis just drops the net cost by one, Biff.

Not strong enough: (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)


Page 74– Arcane Thesis [Substitution]
Should read, “When you apply any metamagic feats
other than Heighten Spell” Thus if you were to
prepare an empowered maximized magic missile
(assuming magic missile is the spell you choose for
your Arcane Thesis), it would be prepared as a 4th
level spell (+1 level for empowered, down from +2;
and +2 levels for maximized, down from +3).

[Doc Roc]

Not strong enough: (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)

I personally agree, but! I would be remiss to not mention it.

[Zaq]

I was under the impression that flaws could only be taken at 1st level.


A player may select up to two flaws when creating a character. After 1st level, a character cannot take on additional flaws unless the game master specifically allows it (for examples of times when doing this might be appropriate, see Character Traits).

I wouldn't recommend anything that specifically requires the GM to approve it (any more than anything else requires GM approval, of course).

[broli]

the energy sustitutiion feat does not increase the level of the spell slot

what i like as a blasting sorcerer, choose a tipe of energy

say, acid.

get a reserve feat for acid spells, and get the enegry sustitution feat applied to acid spells.

so you get a +1 to caster level for all acid spells, and unless there is a reason not to, ALL your spells are acid.

the tipe of magic is better choosen after you look at the reserve feats and what they do.

[Endarire]

Easy Metamagic ("Dragon") has lesser prereqs than Practical Metamagic. Practical Metamagic requires:

Dragonblood subtype, Spellcraft 8 ranks, any metamagic feat, ability to spontaneously cast 3rd-level spells.

[jiriku]

I'm fond of hail of stone, from Spell Compendium. 1st level spell, 5' radius AoE, deals 5d4 damage, no to-hit, no save, no spell resistance, damage is untyped. This thing really should have been second level. With Arcane Thesis and Sculpt spell, you can throw it in a 20'-radius burst or four 10' cubes. Because it's super low level, you can stack a metric ton of metamagic on it. Higher level spells like orb of fire will eventually out-damage it, but it's essentially impossible-to-avoid damage against everyone but incorporeal creatures, beats down multiple targets far more effectively than the usual mailman damage-dealers, and you'll roll HUGE handfuls of dice, which is an amazing amount of fun.

[Forged Fury]

I'm just not a fan of Hail of Stone because it has a casting time of one round. Sam reason I don't love Sleep. Way too easy to get interrupted and at that level the Concentration check isn't trivial in case someone happens to decide to attack the guy waving his arms and saying gibberish in that one round.

[Doc Roc]

I'm fond of hail of stone, from Spell Compendium. 1st level spell, 5' radius AoE, deals 5d4 damage, no to-hit, no save, no spell resistance, damage is untyped. This thing really should have been second level. With Arcane Thesis and Sculpt spell, you can throw it in a 20'-radius burst or four 10' cubes. Because it's super low level, you can stack a metric ton of metamagic on it. Higher level spells like orb of fire will eventually out-damage it, but it's essentially impossible-to-avoid damage against everyone but incorporeal creatures, beats down multiple targets far more effectively than the usual mailman damage-dealers, and you'll roll HUGE handfuls of dice, which is an amazing amount of fun.

Holy CRAP. Nice find!

[jiriku]

I'm just not a fan of Hail of Stone because it has a casting time of one round. Sam reason I don't love Sleep. Way too easy to get interrupted and at that level the Concentration check isn't trivial in case someone happens to decide to attack the guy waving his arms and saying gibberish in that one round.

The long-ish casting time is a downer. However, it can be mitigated. Repeat Spell lets you get the benefit twice while only taking the risk of an extended casting once. The Rapid Spell metamagic feat will reduce it to a standard action (and will do so at no cost, if you have Arcane Thesis: hail of stone). Arcane spellsurge will reduce it to a standard action, and the Rapid Metamagic feat or the Metamagic Specialist ACF even makes that work when metamagic is applied (and of course you WILL be applying metamagic).

Once it's down to a standard action, it's also eligible for folding into arcane fusion and greater arcane fusion. That is all kinds of sick.

Again, not saying the casting time isn't a drawback, but the game gives you the tools to manage that drawback at the cost in a modest investment of feats and spells that can also be useful elsewhere in the build. And with sufficient twinning, fusing, and empowering, I've gotten the damage up to several hundred hp per round. And it is a lot of fun to say "rocks fall, everyone dies" right before you cast the spell. :smalltongue:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I was under the impression that flaws could only be taken at 1st level.

I wouldn't recommend anything that specifically requires the GM to approve it (any more than anything else requires GM approval, of course).

The second sentence of the portion you quoted presumes that a character is created at 1st level. The first sentence supersedes that, thus when creating a character higher than 1st level you can freely place your flaws at any of those levels, as long as it's during character creation, without a requirement of DM approval. Regardless, you could instead take both flaws at your 1st character level, get Arcane Thesis at 6th, then either retrain it at 8th to Wings of Flurry, or trade out the spell it was originally applied to in order to reassign it to Wings of Flurry, though that's a bit iffy.

[Psyren]

Holy CRAP. Nice find!

It is often cited for Spellwarp Snipers as well. Doing so has the drawback of adding a to-hit roll, but the benefit of course is adding SA dice.

In addition to raising the spell level, the damage should be bludgeoning and subject to DR imo.

[HalfDragonCube]

Doesn't Hail of Stone have a 5gp material component cost? Paying every time you use it can be a little annoying.

A friend once recommended Enervation to me. It inflicts 1d4 negative levels with no save, just a ranged touch attack to hit. Add things like split ray to boost it. I'm not to sure if it counts as blasty, but it's a brilliant attack.

[Psyren]

A friend once recommended Enervation to me. It inflicts 1d4 negative levels with no save, just a ranged touch attack to hit. Add things like split ray to boost it. I'm not to sure if it counts as blasty, but it's a brilliant attack.

Oh it's excellent. Just don't be surprised when you gradually find your party in cemeteries and golem factories if you overly rely on it.

[JaronK]

Oh it's excellent. Just don't be surprised when you gradually find your party in cemeteries and golem factories if you overly rely on it.

Nasty trick: have a really good undead controller (like a Dread Necromancer with a Rod of Defiance and a Lyre of the Restful Soul) in the party. Optimize Ray of Enervation. Kill the living with it. Suddenly your DM will naturally start putting you against undead and constructs all the time. This is the best possible way to get powerful undead for your Dread Necromancer!

Metagaming at its finest.

JaronK

[jiriku]

Huh, you know, I did that by accident with a succubus in the same party with a DN once. The DM's "challenge for me was three ghasts spellstitched with summon undead II. DN rebuked all of them. So he controlled undead who could summon undead. I'm pretty sure the DM regretted that one. :smallsmile: