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gnomas
2011-03-20, 01:33 PM
I'm currently running a Star Wars SAGA campaign, and the differences between the SAGA rules and other systems such as straight D&D has sparked some discussion at the table. What we like (easy skill system), and what we don't like (two-weapon fighting rules). What really got me thinking was Force powers. For anyone unfamiliar with the rules, force powers are gained by taking the force training feat, and activated by making a use the force check. Powers are per encounter abilities, though there are ways to recover them in combat. It seems to work ok, but doesn't seem like it could be copied rule for rule into a fantasy setting. The Jedi is meant to blend martial prowess and force powers, but I just don't see a full spellcasting class like a wizard working off of this system. The thing is, I also really enjoy the talent based system. Some talents suck more than others, but overall it gives a lot more variety to the classes.

Enough rambling, onto the discussion topic: What are your thoughts on using talent based systems for fantasy settings, and how should magic be incorporated into said system? What's your favourite system for its magic rules?

erikun
2011-03-20, 05:29 PM
That seems pretty unusual of a system; most "talent-based" magic systems don't run off an encounter mechanic. Most of the ones I've seen are found in a point-buy system, and are usable at will - possibly expending a limited resource for each casting. Rolls are sometimes made, generally to-hit or overcoming a target's willpower, so that isn't too unusual.

As for D&D, the biggest problem with feats-for-powers is that you have far too many powers and far too many feats for it to work. Even a sorcerer who got one bonus feat each level would end up with only half the spells they'd normally have. You might be able to balance this by making the spell-feats more useful in general, but that would involve re-writing most of the magic system from scratch.

Melayl
2011-03-21, 01:26 PM
That seems pretty unusual of a system; most "talent-based" magic systems don't run off an encounter mechanic. Most of the ones I've seen are found in a point-buy system, and are usable at will - possibly expending a limited resource for each casting. Rolls are sometimes made, generally to-hit or overcoming a target's willpower, so that isn't too unusual.

As for D&D, the biggest problem with feats-for-powers is that you have far too many powers and far too many feats for it to work. Even a sorcerer who got one bonus feat each level would end up with only half the spells they'd normally have. You might be able to balance this by making the spell-feats more useful in general, but that would involve re-writing most of the magic system from scratch.

Not if each feat gave them access to a group of related spells, say about 3. You'd need to have higher level spellfeats use lower level spellfeats as prereqs, and you'd need to do some work with grouping spells, but you wouldn't need to re-write the entire system.

Just a thought.

gnomas
2011-03-21, 07:03 PM
The force training feat gives the character force powers equal to 1+Wis Modifier. I was thinking of something similar where one talent might give access to all 1st level spells of the conjuration school, for instance.

jedavis
2011-03-21, 10:34 PM
I think that True Sorcery ( http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=20498&it=1 ) sounds rather like what you're proposing, though built around skill checks rather than standard d20 slots and spells. It deals with the main issue mentioned here (feat-to-spell exchange ratio) by making the spells pretty broad. For example, the first talent in the book, Afflict, can be used to give penalties to attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, SR, or caster level checks, and can also be used to deprive the target of a given sense, inflict diseases, and inflict penalties on the target's ability scores. It's a complicated system, but being able to build spells on the fly is a lot of fun.

Similarly, Midnight had a feats-for-spells magic system built on a spell point model. I believe the feats were pretty expansive; you could get access to most schools for a feat, except conjuration and evocation, which were each split into two feats. The feats only granted access to the school, though; you have to buy spells on an individual basis for XP.

Finally, Spellslinger had a feats-for-spells system where taking a feat granted spell slots per day and spells known of a given spell level (so First Circle grants 3 1st level slots and 3 known 1st level spells, Second Circle requires First Circle and character level 4 and grants 3 2nd level slots and 3 known 2nd level spells, and so forth, capping at Fifth Circle for 5th level spells). It was a pretty decent system; we let one of our D&D players' rogue use them to get some low-level casting without having to take a casting class, and it didn't break anything.