Damage Reduction Logic

[TechnOkami]

So, I was taking a look at damage reduction, an amazing ability, and noticed that creatures of a certain alignment only have vulnerability to a creature which is their antitheses or if they have a properly aligned weapon (and or some other shenanigan which I don't know about).

For instance, if a good creature with damage reduction were to strike an evil creature with damage reduction, they would go through it and deal normal damage to them. The same thing works vice versa.

But because of this, doesn't it make Damage Reduction useless?

I mean, think of it this way: you have a magical damage reducing ability that only your mortal enemies can get through?

...logically it makes no sense to me. :smallconfused:

[No brains]

Ah, but consider: is it that they are mortal enemies BECAUSE they are most effective at hurting each other? And even so, it still remains useful against merely neutral nuisances and people unwilling to dish out for an aligned weapon.

But I digress, I found that strange too. It's not Solar vs. Pit Fiend that would make a close fight, it's Solar vs. Solar (or other strong, good thing).

[dgnslyr]

Well, you're always going to get a close fight when you butt heads with someone with an identical stat-block.

[Moriato]

On the other hand, in the case of devils and demons, they seem to spend a whole lot more time fighting eachother than they do fighting celestial creatures. Who is their real mortal enemy?

[Sacrieur]

Warforged much?

[No brains]

On the other hand, in the case of devils and demons, they seem to spend a whole lot more time fighting eachother than they do fighting celestial creatures. Who is their real mortal enemy?

THAT would be the people on the Material Plane. Outsiders are IMmortal. :smalltongue:

[KillianHawkeye]

On the other hand, in the case of devils and demons, they seem to spend a whole lot more time fighting eachother than they do fighting celestial creatures. Who is their real mortal enemy?

Fixing the DR so it worked on either the Good/Evil axis or the Law/Chaos axis would eliminate this problem.

[Moriato]

THAT would be the people on the Material Plane. Outsiders are IMmortal. :smalltongue:

Heh, I considered this, but mortal does have more than one meaning. In this case it means "deadly" such as in the term "mortal wound".

[Volthawk]

I guess its more about the differences between the concepts. Good is anathema to Evil, so it gets past its defences, and vice versa.

[Zaq]

Basically, it comes down to this.

The fiery hellbeast is raining destruction down on the helpless village of Victimia. They've sent everything they have against it, but their arrows just bounce off its hide, and the few soldiers who get close enough to even poke it with their spears say that they can't even scratch it. You, the savior of Victimia, step in to save the day, for only you have access to the magic relic necessary to slay the evil foe. Do you:

A) Reach for the Sword of Justice, the blade of evil's bane forged by the ancients to defend the innocent?

or

B) Reach for the Sword of Terror, a horrific weapon sharpened on the bones of innocent children and sent by some dire fiend to encourage destruction of the land?

[No brains]

Heh, I considered this, but mortal does have more than one meaning. In this case it means "deadly" such as in the term "mortal wound".

And :smalltongue: means I jest. :smallsmile:
Also mortals are mortal in that epic adventurers are the leading cause of death among outsiders, and a mortal wound would make that mortal die, which mortals do.

Anyway, I'm splitting hares. I should heave that to the 327th layer of the abyss: Lopin' Lapinia.

[Sarco_Phage]

Basically, it comes down to this.

The fiery hellbeast is raining destruction down on the helpless village of Victimia. They've sent everything they have against it, but their arrows just bounce off its hide, and the few soldiers who get close enough to even poke it with their spears say that they can't even scratch it. You, the savior of Victimia, step in to save the day, for only you have access to the magic relic necessary to slay the evil foe. Do you:

A) Reach for the Sword of Justice, the blade of evil's bane forged by the ancients to defend the innocent?

or

B) Reach for the Sword of Terror, a horrific weapon sharpened on the bones of innocent children and sent by some dire fiend to encourage destruction of the land?

Yeah, this is basically the explanation that makes the most sense and is likely the one the designers used when they gave the Celestials/Infernals their damage reduction.

It's a mutual thing. The sacred can cleanse the blasphemous and the blasphemous can defile the sacred. Hence the vampire master Barlowe versus Callahan in 'Salem's Lot, where Barlowe contests his (evil) will against Callahan's (divinely-based) faith. Or Father Merrin versus Pazuzu in the Exorcist.

Or any story where only a holy weapon can harm or weaken the devilish foe, like Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis.

A Solar hitting another Solar with a holy weapon shouldn't do as much damage as a Pit Fiend smacking a Solar with a +3 Greataxe of Desecration, Murder, and Telemarketing.

[Runestar]

B) Reach for the Sword of Terror, a horrific weapon sharpened on the bones of innocent children and sent by some dire fiend to encourage destruction of the land?

I actually find this the cooler option. I recall how in one book of Lone Wolf, I opted for wielding this powerful staff despite it being quite detrimental to your health (you loss a lot of endurance points after each battle). Or using Helshezag to fight the darklords in book12.

Or the soul reaver that raziel wields. :smallamused:

[Gamer Girl]

I mean, think of it this way: you have a magical damage reducing ability that only your mortal enemies can get through?

...logically it makes no sense to me. :smallconfused:


1.Each of the creatures is just so full of the energy type, that they over come the DR. A Demon is SO evil, even to the point that a demon is Pure Evil. This depends on your Multiverse, but you can see demons and other such outsiders as not just 'creatures' by 'living embodiments of an alignment/plane/energy'. So it's not so much that your vulnerable to your mortal enemy, it's that your mortal enemy can simply over come your DR with pure power.


2.It's part of the whole Balance. If you go by the idea that the Multiverse has Rules, as in all the gods and powers set down Rules as to how the Multiverse works. You can see this type of rule coming out of a meeting. Rule-In order to keep the Balance, foes that are mortal enemies are 'vulnerable' to each other. This prevents mass attacks from either side, to make a nice MAD/cold war effect. And it does have the added incentive for the outsiders to 'need' the help of others, even mortals to help in the fight. And that is the reason they come to the Prime so much to get followers and aid.

[Sarco_Phage]

This prevents mass attacks from either side, to make a nice MAD/cold war effect. And it does have the added incentive for the outsiders to 'need' the help of others, even mortals to help in the fight. And that is the reason they come to the Prime so much to get followers and aid.

Actually, it's been pretty much established that if the Tanar'ri ever got their junk together, for example formed an army under Jubilex or Orcus or Zuggt'moy (basically, anyone who isn't totally insane like Demogorgon) they would crush the Devils and Celestials. They're basically like the 40k Orks - an infinite horde that would steamroll the planes were they not kept in check by infighting and the Baatezu's more masterful strategic and tactical advantage.

So, you know. The Demons, by sheer number alone, let alone strength, outnumber each and every creature in the material or elemental planes, by definition. The cold war analogy/MAD implication doesn't work because the Demons cannot be exterminated.