No-Magic-Allowed one-shot. How to finish this build? [Archive]

Daftendirekt

2011-03-20, 09:52 PM

Okay, title is self-explanatory. This one-shot is going to be 10th level, no magic or spell-like abilities allowed. DM will give us gear when we start the session. Here's what I have so far for mine:

Water Orc. Stat array he gave us is 17 16 13 14 11 8

17 str (+1 level up, +4 Orc) = 22
16 con (+2 orc) = 18
14 dex
11 int (-2 orc) = 9
13 wis (+1 level up, -2 orc) = 12
8 cha (-2 orc) = 6

Fighter 2, Spirit Lion Barbarian 1,

Feats
1 - Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Weapon Focus (greatsword)
2 - Cleave (fighter bonus)
3 -
6 - Leap Attack
9 - Shock Trooper

With the exception of that Human Paragon, my aim is to go full BAB. I can't think of what PrCs to finish with. Also, think Human Paragon is worth it? We have a custom skill set (mushed together similar ones into groups. Athletics, Acrobatics, Stealth, etc. Also, got rid of class and cross-class and max rank now = your class level, so the 2nd level Human paragon thing is worthless). But +2 to a stat (str) and a free feat are nice.

Don't suggest ToB stuff. Even if DM would allow it, I've never looked at it and don't feel like learning it in one week.

begooler

2011-03-20, 10:36 PM

Are you the lion totem in UA or Champion?

I see 6 levels listed, so I guess you're still looking for the other four. What about half orc, and then picking up both the half orc and human paragons to get a +2 to strength twice, or use your human bonus for another stat? Half orc will also give you additional rage per day.

Doc Roc

2011-03-20, 10:38 PM

Actually, I really like FrostRager. I think all of it's abilities are su, not sla. Human Paragon is definitely a no-go in this situation. Tell me more about what you want to do?

I'm really interested in this.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-20, 10:45 PM

Are you the lion totem in UA or Champion?

Champion. Pounce ftw.

Actually, I really like FrostRager. I think all of it's abilities are su, not sla. Human Paragon is definitely a no-go in this situation. Tell me more about what you want to do?

I'm really interested in this.

I want to make this guy as much of a melee tank/beast as I can. He shall tear **** apart. So, you think I will have enough feats that the human bonus one will be unnecessary? I figured in a pure melee build I'd want as many feats as I could get.

Also, FYI, he'll probably allow a flaw or two. However, they have to be ones that will actually affect me (i.e., no -2 ranged attack on a pure melee guy).

Doc Roc

2011-03-20, 10:54 PM

Champion. Pounce ftw.

I want to make this guy as much of a melee tank/beast as I can. He shall tear **** apart. So, you think I will have enough feats that the human bonus one will be unnecessary? I figured in a pure melee build I'd want as many feats as I could get.

Also, FYI, he'll probably allow a flaw or two. However, they have to be ones that will actually affect me (i.e., no -2 ranged attack on a pure melee guy).

Human is never irrelevant, but human paragon is mostly good when you're constrained by the skill system, in my experience.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-20, 10:56 PM

So, what do you think? Half-Orc or human? I can easily off-set the human bonus feat by taking a flaw. Also, any other feat suggestions anyway? And if not Human Paragon, then I still have 7 levels to fill, unless I go Half-Orc and take its paragon. I may do that, since it's full BAB.

Zaq

2011-03-20, 11:06 PM

Human is fine. Human Paragon doesn't seem to be helping you.

Question: Is Incarnum allowed? It's magical, but it's not spells or SLAs. A few levels of Totemist would be brutal.

If we're sticking with the truly mundane, though . . . hmm. Bear Warrior is awesome, but is supernatural. If you're willing to lose a BAB, maybe about three or four levels of Scout? Skirmish is nice, Improved Skirmish (CS) is better, and with Pounce, it's a fairly reliable source of bonus damage.

Maybe go with some kind of modified Horizon Tripper? It's actually kind of hard to avoid anything magical when you're at this high of a level.

begooler

2011-03-20, 11:06 PM

Yeah, Human Paragon really doesn't do as much for you here, with your skill system and the fact that you don't have a casting class to advance. The extra rage from half orc is nice.

I like the Frost Rager. I'd never really looked at it before. Fist of the Forest in Champion is also nice if you wanted to go with unarmed. (Which could be a good strategy if you don't know what your gear is going to be.) The flavor also befits a totem barbarian.

The two prestige classes could even be combined to good effect, but with the level you are, you are probably better off picking just one of them.

Zaq

2011-03-20, 11:09 PM

Oh, another thing . . . this is a one-shot. Don't put both of your level-up points into STR if doing so leaves you with an odd number. Bump one of your other scores up to an even number.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-20, 11:16 PM

Oh, another thing . . . this is a one-shot. Don't put both of your level-up points into STR if doing so leaves you with an odd number. Bump one of your other scores up to an even number.

Good point.

Also, anything even remotely magic is not allowed. No incarnum, no psionics, etc.

And, while we don't know what our gear will be, he said he'd give it based on our build. So, if I have weapon focus (greatsword), I at least know he'll give me a greatsword of some kind. IIRC, even the gear he assigns will be mundane. I really don't want to do unarmed with this guy, otherwise I'd absolutely be taking FotF.

Maybe go with some kind of modified Horizon Tripper? It's actually kind of hard to avoid anything magical when you're at this high of a level.

Yes. It is. Also, looked up what Horizon Tripper is, and it's kind of a build all on its own. I'm making a Shock Trooper...

Doc Roc

2011-03-20, 11:41 PM

Good point.

Also, anything even remotely magic is not allowed. No incarnum, no psionics, etc.

And, while we don't know what our gear will be, he said he'd give it based on our build. So, if I have weapon focus (greatsword), I at least know he'll give me a greatsword of some kind. IIRC, even the gear he assigns will be mundane. I really don't want to do unarmed with this guy, otherwise I'd absolutely be taking FotF.

Yes. It is. Also, looked up what Horizon Tripper is, and it's kind of a build all on its own. I'm making a Shock Trooper...

So nothing even with (Su) abilities?! That basically locks you into things like Frenzied Berserker.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-20, 11:44 PM

Nah, I think lots of (Su) would be allowed. I don't know. He was rather vague on that >_>

Doc Roc

2011-03-20, 11:46 PM

Nah, I think lots of (Su) would be allowed. I don't know. He was rather vague on that >_>

Then my vote for Frostrager + imperious command + intimidating rage + instantaneous rage. In a game with no magic, the one-eyed scary dude is king.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-20, 11:59 PM

Already expressed my lack of interest in doing unarmed, so no FotF or Frostrager.

Zaq

2011-03-21, 12:00 AM

Then my vote for Frostrager + imperious command + intimidating rage + instantaneous rage. In a game with no magic, the one-eyed scary dude is king.

I agree with, if nothing else, using the good old Barbarian's Celerity here. The Never Outnumbered skill trick is a necessity, but you knew that already.

If Frostrager is allowed, Bear Warrior should be allowed as well, and that lets you turn into a bear. I mean, come on. Only a black bear (you can't get very deep into Bear Warrior by level 10, since you can only qualify at 7 and enter at 8), but still, bear. Frostrager has at least a slight unarmed theme, so if you want to capitalize on that at all, you might want to get Fist of the Forest involved. You did say that you don't want to go unarmed, though, so that should be taken into consideration. Frostrager has other benefits, of course, but given that it takes three entry feats (OK, two entry feats and a feat you were going to take anyway), think long and hard about it if you don't want to use everything it has to offer.

If you do go unarmed, though, look at Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick, both of which are feats in Tome of Battle. They have nothing to do with the ToB system itself and are supremely relevant here.

MammonAzrael

2011-03-21, 12:14 AM

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 12:20 AM

Ah, yeah, I don't think of Frager as unarmed, but I guess it's got that component to it. Whoops! The rest of my advice stands.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 12:23 AM

Why aren't you taking the Barbarian level at your 1st level? As far as i can tell, there is no downside and you're gaining HP.

As for a race, why not Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs)? And if your DM is ok with it, the Dragonborn template can get you mundane flight.

I can quite easily take it as my first level. The order of classtakery is not really the highlight of the thread. The thread is to figure out a good build past what I already have. Also, Water Orc is on the list of possibilities, guess I should've mentioned that.

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 12:24 AM

I can quite easily take it as my first level. The order of classtakery is not really the highlight of the thread. The thread is to figure out a good build past what I already have. Also, Water Orc is on the list of possibilities, guess I should've mentioned that.

Okay, all sources open? :: stretches ::

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 12:30 AM

K, EDIT to my current build on first post. More darkvision and getting rid of light sensitivity is nice.

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 12:34 AM

K, EDIT to my current build on first post. More darkvision and getting rid of light sensitivity is nice.

There are goggles for it. They do something. Source on that, anyone?

Zaq

2011-03-21, 12:35 AM

There are goggles for it. They do something. Source on that, anyone?

Sundark Goggles. Races of the Dragon, p. 123.

Curmudgeon

2011-03-21, 12:36 AM

You've really got to nail down whether Supernatural abilities will be allowed or not; that decision is critical. You can't proceed without knowing that.

Also it would be helpful to know the setting, or at least whether you're playing in Forgotten Realms or not. The FR-only version of the Dark Creature template in Cormyr: The Tearing Of The Weave is worth the +1 level adjustment, if Supernatural abilities are allowed.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 12:38 AM

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 12:44 AM

Win. Those are mundane, so I just have to beg my DM to give them to my character and I can get rid of that Orc Paragon level.

Also, yes Forgotten Realms. Setting specific shouldn't matter. And (Su) is allowed, with a few select things that he might not allow. So, proceed under the assumption that all (Su) is allowed.

Nice idea, Crum. Approval of Dark Template is very high with me. Sneaky Scary Barbarians are the best.

Trapkiller [DS]: Trade Trapsense for the ability to detect traps with Survival (!!) and to disarm them by bashing them to bits! Maybe you’re not quite as experienced as the Rogue (-5 to Survival-checks), but you’re damn good at disarming the mechanical ones (and you have the whatchacall’em spell dudettes to disarm the others; you can still find magical traps!).

Streetfighter [CS Web]: Gets you rid of the stupid Damage Reduction that never did anyone any good, gives you all kinds of wonderful abilities while charging! TATSUMAKI SENPU KYAKU!

Stolen from Being Bane.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 12:59 AM

Could I get a link on that Streetfighter one? Also, YES to Dark template. SOOO worth +1, esp. for a one-shot.

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 01:01 AM

sure can (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)

Honestly, Fighter 2/Lion Totem 7+Dark is probably one of your best options.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 01:06 AM

I dunno, barb 7 seems underwhelming. Trap sense = garbage, this DM almost never does traps. Improved Uncanny Dodge is nice, but it feels like there's better stuff out there. Also, the improved crit thing is situational.

TBH, I've been eyeing Ghost-Faced Killer. Full BAB, easy (and useful!) requirements, and sudden strike. Even if the DM rules out Ghost Step as "too magical", I still have the Sudden Strike.

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 01:07 AM

I dunno, barb 7 seems underwhelming. Trap sense = garbage, this DM almost never does traps. Improved Uncanny Dodge is nice, but it feels like there's better stuff out there. Also, the improved crit thing is situational.

Well, darn. See, most of the best PrCs have things that make them ineligible for your current situation.

I'd rather take Dread Commando.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 01:09 AM

Thus the challenge! The one-shot we just finished was rife with magic, to the point that it took ****ING FOREVER because we were all doing so much magic. One round could take 20 minutes, especially with our Hive Mother beholder doing 9 goddamn things a round.

So, we're trying the other extreme. NO magic. I've no idea what the others are doing yet. I just know I'm doing an Orcish Destruction Machine (of some kind).

EDIT: oooo, dread commando does sound nice. So, Dark Template 1/fighter 2, barb 2, rokugan ninja 1*, dread commando 4. I think that's fairly solid.

*Free dodge, full BAB, Will save, more SA!

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 01:14 AM

Sacrieur

2011-03-21, 01:21 AM

FB any day of the week.

d12 HD, Frenzy, awesome cleave abilities. Any questions?

---

Scratch the greatsword, see if your DM will allow you to pick up fullblade. Then take human and pick up the exotic weapon feat for fullblade.

Additionally drop Improved Bull Rush and head straight for FB. Pick up Great Cleave if you can afford it.

Frenzy + Intimidating Rage + Power Attack + Fullblade + Great Cleave = Lots and lots of dead people.

Supreme Cleave allows you to add +2 damage for every -1 you take from BAB. I would especially consider this route since there are no buffers in your party to help you hit.

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 01:34 AM

FB any day of the week.

d12 HD, Frenzy, awesome cleave abilities. Any questions?

Yeah, how do you cope with one in your party with no magic?

Sacrieur

2011-03-21, 01:52 AM

Yeah, how do you cope with one in your party with no magic?

I want to make this guy as much of a melee tank/beast as I can. He shall tear **** apart. So, you think I will have enough feats that the human bonus one will be unnecessary? I figured in a pure melee build I'd want as many feats as I could get.

Never said it had to be only the enemy :tongue:.

Doc Roc

2011-03-21, 01:55 AM

Never said it had to be only the enemy :tongue:.

I guess you get to buy a ton of marbles, and pray.

Daftendirekt

2011-03-21, 02:23 AM

Nah, going with the Dread Commando build. Final feats are as such:

Power Attack
Improved Bull Rush (fighter bonus feat)
Weapon Focus [greatsword] (flaw)
Cleave (Fighter bonus feat)
Dodge (from Rokugan Ninja)
Mobility
Leap Attack
Shock Trooper