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randomhero00
2011-03-21, 02:59 PM
Would rather have power over earth, air, water, or fire?

Some basics of earth: create immobile armor; gain a ton of temp hps and armor reduction. Good vs ground or underground enemies.

Some basics of air: Best in the open worse in caves and small structures. A repelling tornado of wind surrounds the caster.& Individial knock back enemies.

Some basics of water: best near large amounts of water, worse everywhere else that is lacking water. (Must use what they have packed if desert). Most efficient use of power and longest buffs. Ice shield (1 hit). Tentacle of water (requires 10L of water).

Some basics on fire:
Best everywhere. Explosive damage. Fire shield return X back if struck in melee.

Now I'll deal with the actual numbers later. Pretend they are all balanced. Which would you chose to play? I'm mostly looking for a pole here. But if you want to PEACH then feel free.

Comet
2011-03-21, 03:05 PM
Some basics on fire:
Best everywhere.

I'ma go with fire, then.

For real, though, I'd probably go with air. Seems to have the most utility in variou situations. Are the written out examples the full extent of each elemental power or just examples?

absolmorph
2011-03-21, 03:11 PM
Fire.
JET BOOTS! I launch myself at the enemy, kick their face and MELT IT OFF.

WildPyre
2011-03-21, 03:14 PM
Three questions

1: Is there a comet passing anytime soon? (If yes, then fire)

2: Will there be a lunar eclipse soon? (If yes then water)

3: Can I choose Heart? (If yes... I'd probably still go with fire.)

Gensh
2011-03-21, 03:27 PM
Some basics of air: Best in the open worse in caves and small structures.

Wrong. While you would have the maneuverability advantage in an open area, particularly if you were flying, the smaller the area, the more pressure can build, meaning a stronger wind. That's why it's always so breezy in large cities. So yeah, I choose wind, blow the other guy back and lolcrossbow him to death.

randomhero00
2011-03-21, 03:28 PM
Fire useful as in, it doesn't matter the environment. Not stronger per se.



Three questions

1: Is there a comet passing anytime soon? (If yes, then fire)

2: Will there be a lunar eclipse soon? (If yes then water)

3: Can I choose Heart? (If yes... I'd probably still go with fire.)

I had to lol at this

absolmorph- fire gets this, but not till near max level.


FYI this is for a homebrew game. Thanks for the info

randomhero00
2011-03-21, 04:22 PM
Wrong. While you would have the maneuverability advantage in an open area, particularly if you were flying, the smaller the area, the more pressure can build, meaning a stronger wind. That's why it's always so breezy in large cities. So yeah, I choose wind, blow the other guy back and lolcrossbow him to death.

Yes. but in this game the less air you have work with and to condense and such if in an enclosed area.

Eldan
2011-03-21, 05:03 PM
Water. It's awesome and I love it. Also so damn versatile, and it's everywhere. Even inside of most opponents.

Calmar
2011-03-21, 05:07 PM
Earth. Safety first.

erikun
2011-03-21, 05:07 PM
The element of Surprise tends to work best in most situations. :smallbiggrin:

A bit more seriously, how much should the "element" relate to the character? I mean, I have the idea that standing still is an element of earth; moving quickly is an element of wind. Water is shifting fluidly from position to position, while fire is taking a rapid offense or an aggressive stance. You could also tie the four elements to mental qualities - water to knowledge, earth to wisdom, wind to wit and fire to inspiration.

(I say "wind" rather than "air" because it better embodies quick, decisive movement rather than being breathable.)

On the other hand, I wouldn't agree that an Ice Shield would be water. Yes, ice is a form of water, but so is steam - I have yet to see a system that will allow me to send searing blasts of water vapor at opponents under the "water" option. Something that solidly blocks and attack would be earth; something that deflects it would be water. Dodging would be air (and parrying it fire).

As for attacks, something that destablizes an opponent or puts them off-footing would be water. Something like a jet or water knocking them off-kilter or miring their progress. (Earth would simply knock them to the ground or make the ground unpassable.) Similarly, water has the ability to build up over time and release in a sudden burst, or to keep increasing pressure over time.

Given how much I talk about it, I generally associate with Water. :smallredface: Don't forget those other elements, though!

Xanmyral
2011-03-21, 05:18 PM
I would have to choose water, because I'm a sucker for ice spells and water is the closest to it. Besides, if I don't have actual control over ice, controlling water is the next best thing. That, and if I were to have something that can freeze water quickly, then I basically control ice if I can control water. :smalltongue:

Wind does have its uses, the most effective one coming to mind now would be forcibly pulling the air out, and keeping out, of someones lungs. You could reverse that though, and and cause their lungs to burst with enough pressure...

Earth... Well, I'm not a fan. I'm sure it is very useful, but I'm just not one for dirt, stone, and mud.

Fire is... Kind of a one trick pony. You control fire, so by association you can control heat in that you create fire. While controlling heat might be interesting, I don't see many practical uses that are outside of combat.

So, water is the best choice for me really. It has plenty of biological functions, offensive functions, and defensive if used properly. Breathing under water would be a fun little bonus as well, but I think you might be able to pull that off with wind as well.

Lyndworm
2011-03-21, 07:18 PM
I'd have to pick Earth... Did you know that bones, teeth and skin are made largely of minerals? :smallamused:

erikun
2011-03-21, 07:29 PM
I'd have to pick Earth... Did you know that bones, teeth and skin are made largely of minerals? :smallamused:
I believe carbon counts as a mineral.

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 07:33 PM
I pick: Water. The body is about 60% water. You could totally ruin somebody's day. :smalltongue:

Lyndworm
2011-03-21, 07:41 PM
I believe carbon counts as a mineral.

It does indeed. As do calcium, chlorine, chromium, cobalt, copper, fluorine, iodine, iron, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, phosphorus, potassium, selenium, sodium, sulfur, and zinc, just off the top of my head.

Kylarra
2011-03-21, 07:42 PM
Assuming an equally balanced system, fire. Always fire. :smallamused:

Connington
2011-03-21, 07:57 PM
Let's see.

Water: Seriously, who wants to the Super Friends version of Aquaman? You throw water balls at people, and you can make the ground slippery. Yawn. You're really awesome if the adventure is on a boat or something, but if that happens you're probably dating the GM, so you don't have to worry too much anyways. The ice powers do go someway to making you suck less though.

Earth: Okay, you're probably going to have the best defense, which is a highly underrated power. What about offense? That probably consists of throwing rocks, which is okay. Probably not as damaging as Fire, but it's probably way easier to beat someone without killing them, so it washes out. You may be able to have the earth swallow your opponent, which is awesome. Utility? Well, I'm seeing a lot stuff related to precious minerals, but not much else. Maaaaybe the ability to walk through walls, if you get lucky.

Fire: You can burn stuff. What else? You can burn more stuff. Great destructive potential there. If you can't kill it with fire, you obviously aren't using enough fire. But what else can it do? You can't get a non-lethal KO by burning people alive. You can make campfires, putting your powers somewhere on the level of Tenderfoot Scout training. Niiiiice.

Air: Awesome. It probably has the worst base damage of any of the elements, but that's fine, because air lets you shove people around and control the battlefield. The earth guy has powerful armor? That's nice, but no one can even get near you to attack in the first place. Also, flying. Even if the other powers get some sort of flying ability, it can be assumed that Air gets better and/or earlier flight, and flying is awesome. Air also grants you protection against gasses, which is kind of the least cool thing it can do absent an Avatar campaign set in WWI or something like that. Feeling lethal? Take the air out of someone's lungs.

Mando Knight
2011-03-21, 08:01 PM
Aren't you supposed to pick Air and then work your way towards manipulating the other elements?

dsmiles
2011-03-21, 08:04 PM
Let's see.

Water: Seriously, who wants to the Super Friends version of Aquaman? You throw water balls at people, and you can make the ground slippery. Yawn. You're really awesome if the adventure is on a boat or something, but if that happens you're probably dating the GM, so you don't have to worry too much anyways. The ice powers do go someway to making you suck less though.
Alternatively, manipulate the 60% of the body that is made up of water. Perhaps turning it to ice.

lightningcat
2011-03-21, 08:07 PM
Fire.
A) I'm a bit of a pyro.
B) If you're smart you can use it for a lot more then simple frontal attacks. Smoke screen, lava traps, weaponsmithing. Heck, just burn the air up in a room and see what happens.:smallbiggrin:

Temassasin
2011-03-21, 08:23 PM
air or water
1.air can be used to manipulate your enemy by pushing their body parts with air (make them punch their friend)
2. water use water in enemies limbs.
pretty much even ... except air can fly




AIR

zorba1994
2011-03-21, 10:50 PM
I pick hydrogen, it's in air, water, is combustible, and is the basis for most of everything cool (hydrogen bonding!). Also, it can be used to start nuclear reactions.


Oh wait, not those elements. I'm going to go with air; flying anyone?

Blue Ghost
2011-03-21, 10:55 PM
Three questions

1: Is there a comet passing anytime soon? (If yes, then fire)

2: Will there be a lunar eclipse soon? (If yes then water)

3: Can I choose Heart? (If yes... I'd probably still go with fire.)

Isn't waterbending weakened under a lunar eclipse?

I choose water, because it's my element. If I'm feeling evil, I'll go for sucking the water out of people's bodies.

Lyndworm
2011-03-21, 11:11 PM
Isn't waterbending weakened under a lunar eclipse?

No, firebending is. Waterbending is strengthened by the moon and a lunar eclipse prolongs that period of strength while weakening their enemies.

Gensh
2011-03-22, 03:42 PM
Yes. but in this game the less air you have work with and to condense and such if in an enclosed area.

Unless we're talking about the elemental plane of earth or a portable hole or some similar location where air isn't literally everywhere, this would not be the case. If you're in a cave, you would simply use the air you had at hand as usual, which though limited in supply, is connected to the air outside the cave. The only way that you could stop an air-user from getting exactly how much air they needed in any situation would be to stuff them in a completely airtight space. As I said, the only real disadvantage to air is that you've got no method of attack other than enhancing the force of projectile weapons that you'd have to be carrying on your person.

LibraryOgre
2011-03-22, 04:09 PM
Given that I live in a city that regularly has 80+% humidity, Water would be amazingly effective. Generally, as a DM I'd disallow any "make the person's water do things", much as I'd disallow turning air in someone's lungs to chlorine or manipulating the carbon in their body via earth manipulation. You want to kill someone, burn 'em to death, knock them off a cliff, or drown them with a massive wave.

However, on the subject of fire. If waterbending is of limited use in the desert, why is fire useful anywhere? Wouldn't you need a source of fire... and a sizable one, at that... to make it work?

Psyren
2011-03-22, 04:14 PM
Shadow.

*sips tea in dark corner*

Temassasin
2011-03-22, 04:21 PM
death decay entropity or chaos

randomhero00
2011-03-22, 04:34 PM
Given that I live in a city that regularly has 80+% humidity, Water would be amazingly effective. Generally, as a DM I'd disallow any "make the person's water do things", much as I'd disallow turning air in someone's lungs to chlorine or manipulating the carbon in their body via earth manipulation. You want to kill someone, burn 'em to death, knock them off a cliff, or drown them with a massive wave.

However, on the subject of fire. If waterbending is of limited use in the desert, why is fire useful anywhere? Wouldn't you need a source of fire... and a sizable one, at that... to make it work?

Perhaps they both need big sources to work with it. But waterbending could gather water from underground rivers and such. From plant life, or other small rodents. Water is about being self-sufficient. IMO its the least flashy.

Or I supposed high level water users could call storms and have plenty of water within the hour (bad for an immediate fight...but imagine the sieging power..)

randomhero00
2011-03-22, 04:48 PM
Forgot I never actually answered my own survey.

That is a really tough choice.

I'm a total pyro...but I'd probably end up burning someone/a house down. Honestly, that kind of power, just too dangerous in my hands.

I like earth, but my problem with that is that we really already have technology that mimics most of its abilities. Its a heavy hitter with armor...body armor and machine guns. That carries everything but strength, but we're working on suits for that too.

water vs air- I'll have to go for air, but only because I live in a desert. Otherwise I'd be a lot more interested in water.

Although the more I think about it, the more I realize how much water is constantly around us. Especially in cities. Can you imagine getting stabbed in the chest with a garbage filled ice pick!? lol

And do the person said water control would be just like lame aquaman...here's what a true water mage should be able to do. Really b @ss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXoQpJAl9j8

Yora
2011-03-22, 05:00 PM
I'd pick water, the most versatile outside of violent situations.

Temassasin
2011-03-22, 05:04 PM
really give me one thing water can do that air can't.

Knaight
2011-03-22, 05:18 PM
I'd go with air. For one thing, I'm not too fond of violence, for another its presumably much harder to see what people are doing with air than any of the other three. Plus, its cleaner, leaving dirt, scorch marks, or wetness around just isn't my style.

randomhero00
2011-03-22, 05:19 PM
really give me one thing water can do that air can't.

Instantly kill them (ice spike through the chest)
Instantly give them hypothermia
Water over a wide scale is massively powerful..look at tsunamis.
Create solid cover.
Freeze windows and doors to keep in/out
Redirecting attacks

Basically just a lot more lethal damage, and slightly better defense depending.

OverThoughtName
2011-03-22, 05:30 PM
Fire. People have air in their lungs, which are made out of hydrocarbon-esque materials. I always find it amusing that people forget about that simple prospect of pyrokinesis. Also, who needs to be able to free-fly when you get to make your own super hot-air balloon?

ClockShock
2011-03-22, 05:42 PM
really give me one thing water can do that air can't.

Make things wet

Connington
2011-03-22, 06:07 PM
Redirecting attacks

I'll give you most of the above with qualifiers, but this one doesn't seem right. Redirecting attacks is one of Air's core shticks.

Temassasin
2011-03-22, 07:04 PM
Instantly kill them (ice spike through the chest)
air can do that (sucking the air out of your lungs)

Instantly give them hypothermia
actually that is not instant

Water over a wide scale is massively powerful..look at tsunamis.
look at tornadoes combined they are hurricanes

Create solid cover.
you have me their except i can blow all your attacks off course though water is better at this

Freeze windows and doors to keep in/out
got me their to.

Redirecting attacks
air can do this much better
now look what air can do
1.fly
2.manipulate all the other elements though not as successfully
3.manipulate opponent (though not as well as water)
4. obscure your self with rising dust
5.augment fire and water type powers
i would get the rest now but it's dinner time
v more like around their mouths

randomhero00
2011-03-22, 07:13 PM
Air avoids, water reflects, earth absorbs, and fire destroys.

water defeats fire (because water cools fire)

fire defeats earth (because earth is too stubborn to move)

earth defeats air (because it is immovable)

and air defeats water (because air is even quicker than water)

Can you suck the air from someone? Do you have line of site to their lungs? Doesn't make sense to me, nor have I ever heard it in fiction. But suffocating takes awhile, about 3 minutes if you're sure you want them dead. Water can freeze your veins or fill you lungs with water then freeze them and walk away. Basically water is just faster. More lethal. Yet also very defensive. At least compared to fire.

Tsunomis are much more deadly than earth quakes and tornadoes. Tsunomis have killed way more people in history than either of those two (pretty sure).

Haha, I think I'll change my answer to water, just to be opposite.

Gensh
2011-03-22, 08:49 PM
[B]Do you have line of site to their lungs? Doesn't make sense to me, nor have I ever heard it in fiction. But suffocating takes awhile, about 3 minutes if you're sure you want them dead. Water can freeze your veins or fill you lungs with water then freeze them and walk away.

I'm not entirely sure why you think that someone suffocating from having water in their lungs will pass out more quickly than having the air ripped out of their lungs entirely, likely causing them to implode upon themselves. And this isn't D&D, so line of sight is irrelevant. I know that you said this was related to homebrew, but you haven't provided those sort of relevant statistics. More specifically, though, since we're talking about real-world type applications of power here, rather than standard fantastic ones, the level of water control required to slow molecules down fast enough to make freezing a viable tactic would be comparable to the level of air control required to generate electricity via ionization. In that case, an air-element lightning sniper would be pretty much untouchable unless the earth-element carbon guy was within range.


Wouldn't you need a source of fire... and a sizable one, at that... to make it work?

The typical explanation is that fire guys somehow make the air denser around them and then use their power like a glorified zippo. Otherwise, you get the Shyamalan movie. Well, there were a lot of other things wrong with that too, but they're not relevant.

randomhero00
2011-03-22, 09:03 PM
I'm not entirely sure why you think that someone suffocating from having water in their lungs will pass out more quickly than having the air ripped out of their lungs entirely, likely causing them to implode upon themselves. And this isn't D&D, so line of sight is irrelevant.

Water is faster in that regard because its a fire and forget. The air mage has to sit there and concentrate to keep up the suffocating. And this is assuming a water mage can't simply freeze your heart or brain instantly killing you with a look. No one else, even a fire mage, can kill you so quickly.

Another nice, semi evil use of water would be to flood a Bank. Once everyone leaves freeze the cameras and break them. Then freeze locks and shatter them and go to town with money.

Basically water is one of those elements that excels at creative and dynamic thinking, but is bad for unilateral think (such as fire).

Gensh
2011-03-22, 09:19 PM
Water is faster in that regard because its a fire and forget. The air mage has to sit there and concentrate to keep up the suffocating. And this is assuming a water mage can't simply freeze your heart or brain instantly killing you with a look. No one else, even a fire mage, can kill you so quickly.

It's not so simple, though. If there are four equally-powerful mages, then imagine the sorts of things the other three would be able to do. Let's say they all, for some sadistic reason, want to wreck some dude's lungs, they would be equally effective: water fills them, air pops them, fire...uh...burns them...internally, and earth...actually, earth doesn't really have the right tools for this situation, but someone more familiar with the element could probably think of something. Just because there's a trope of the cold and calculating ice/water mage doesn't mean that the other four don't have the same utility value...except probably fire because it's made of d4s, and the only thing those are good for is being stepped on.

Lyndworm
2011-03-22, 09:31 PM
earth...actually, earth doesn't really have the right tools for this situation, but someone more familiar with the element could probably think of something.

My first thought is to shred their lungs from the inside using inhaled dust particles, but I'm not sure how cheesy that is. I'm assuming that these theoretical elementalists aren't capable of messing with the body's base components, of course. (IE, no shattering bones from the inside and using them like flying razors in a macabre tornado of gore and death.)

Gensh
2011-03-22, 09:45 PM
My first thought is to shred their lungs from the inside using inhaled dust particles, but I'm not sure how cheesy that is. I'm assuming that these theoretical elementalists aren't capable of messing with the body's base components, of course. (IE, no shattering bones from the inside and using them like flying razors in a macabre tornado of gore and death.)

I thought of that but was having difficulty in trying to figure out the point where dust becomes too insignificant to count as earth. I mean, if you don't stop at a reasonable point, earth-users could just kill everything with invisible razors. On that note, though, I once designed a character whose backstory involved him surgically implanting gem-studded netting in his muscular tissue so that he could force his body to move even if it was overcome by fatigue or if he had to fight without any earth around. The 3.5 Control Body on self trick, basically.

erikun
2011-03-22, 09:51 PM
Sand is quite easy to get into lungs and exceptionally hard to get out of them. It would be rather difficult to force enough sand into their face to block up the lungs, though, and if you can do that you'd have better luck just using it to block their throat (or crush their windpipe, with the right force).

Lemonus
2011-03-22, 09:58 PM
Air. It would help with Epic Ninja Moves, and it will let you fly. Also, kinda hard to fight when someone just sucked all the air out of your lungs. And couldn't you make the air around someone solid (or something to that effect) and stop them from moving?

Temassasin
2011-03-22, 10:10 PM
yep and you could make them move that way to

randomhero00
2011-03-23, 11:38 AM
It really depends on power levels I suppose.

If air is strong enough to become so thick as to hold someone or explode their lungs, then I'm sure a water elementalist could screw with their blood and bodily fluids. Basically a literal brain freeze. Or make them bleed everywhere.

Air is good and all, its the most versatile. But fire and water are more lethal followed closely by earth (earth depends more on the situation).

This actually sounds like a fun RPG.

Also, don't forget, if air can fly then water can breathe underwater, and earth can burrow. And fire...um I guess has heat resistance.

Gensh
2011-03-23, 03:57 PM
If air is strong enough to become so thick as to hold someone or explode their lungs, then I'm sure a water elementalist could screw with their blood and bodily fluids. Basically a literal brain freeze. Or make them bleed everywhere.

Still going a bit too far, there. Popping someone's lungs with air would be just as easy as making a wave with water; it's even the same motion. Conversely, a person's bodily fluids would likely be protected by their aura or whatnot - the attended objects get a save clause. Blood, in particular, would be difficult to affect if the classical associations are in place, as it's the air humor.

erikun
2011-03-23, 04:10 PM
I wouldn't think that bursting a person's lungs would be very easy unless you had full control of the air within their lungs already. If you only had control of the air outside, simply blowing a strong wind in their face won't force enough air into their lungs to cause them to burst - and if you do have that much control of air, you could easily just lift them off the ground and toss them anywhere you'd want.

randomhero00
2011-03-24, 11:12 AM
I wouldn't think that bursting a person's lungs would be very easy unless you had full control of the air within their lungs already. If you only had control of the air outside, simply blowing a strong wind in their face won't force enough air into their lungs to cause them to burst - and if you do have that much control of air, you could easily just lift them off the ground and toss them anywhere you'd want.

+1 exactly. And if air had that much power, again, water would have something similar. Why wouldn't the lungs be protected by some "aura" as well? If anything forcing air into someones lungs would be very very difficult as they could close their mouth. I would actually think making a vacuum bubble around their head the easiest way. You'd pop their ear drums, all the air would rush out of their lungs, and they'd choke to death.

Whereas water doesn't really even need to freeze. It just needs to stop your blood flowing to your brain. Or do something similar to air and force water down their lungs. Or maybe make them sweat so much they get instantly dehydrated to a dangerous degree.

Either way, I think an elementalist system like this would be a blast to roleplay.

Earth could swallow you. Fire is obvious. They'd each have their own power and unique ways of using it. Makes me want to make a game like this.

Reminds me of the last airbender but a lot more deadly/mature audience.

Gensh
2011-03-24, 01:06 PM
I would actually think making a vacuum bubble around their head the easiest way.
That's actually closer to what I meant, though more of a reverse wind tunnel sort of thing. Really, each element has its own advantages. Except fire. There are only so many things you can do with a power that is exclusively destructive.

Mystral
2011-03-24, 05:36 PM
Void.


I have to type this so I can post.

tordirycgoyust
2011-03-24, 11:03 PM
Earth. It can do just about everything water can(just imagine for a moment Katara as Gaara in the above video(or some shapesand shenanigans)), if not quite so quickly or gracefully, and works on a wider range of more readily available materials.

Fhaolan
2011-03-25, 12:17 AM
There's only one real choice.

Metal

*throws devil horns*