Quick Loading + Rapid Reload redundancy?

[Straymind]

I'm building a flavor character, not looking for optimization, but nor do I want to waste a feat so here's the issue:

Level 7 Ranger
18 Dex
BAB: +7/+2
Weapon Prof (Repeating Heavy Crossbow)
Weapon Focus (As above)
Rapid Reload
Other feats...

Wielding: +1 Darkwood Large Repeating Heavy Crossbow of Quick Loading (whew)
Also: Strongarm Bracers to remedy the large weapon penalty

The goal is to be able to use all 3 attacks provided by Rapid Shot without having to spend Full Round Actions reloading on subsequent turns.

The Question: Does having both the Rapid Reload feat and Quick Loading seem redundant? Again, the goal is to not have a "dead turn" where I am reloading instead of turning my foes into pin cushions.

P.S. Think Heavy from Team Fortress 2 and you aren't far off

[dgnslyr]

If you're a heavy, where, in your build, is your Sandvich? You can't call yourself a heavy unless you can reliable and repeatedly fully heal yourself in a full-round, attack-provoking action, or better.

Also, Weapon Proficience/Weapon Focus is a trap. Avoid it unless it's a pre-req for something I don't remember.

[Straymind]

It's for the pre reqs on a house ruled Order of the (Cross)Bow Initiate.

[Straymind]

Also Sandvich was from an update, Classic heavy prefers a Shotgun, thank you very much

Leetle Baby man.

[Yeturs]

I have no idea if the feat and the enhancement will stack. However, if your goal is to avoid the full round to reload, I can take that down to a move action.

The Collar of Perpetual Attendance Found in this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) article allows for unseen servant 24/7.

That unseen servant can be commanded as a move action to take its own full round action to reload your crossbow. That takes your reload down to a move.

Better then a full round, but I don't know if you need that move action for other things.

(Also, i think a Drow house insignia from Drow of the underdark does the same thing, if your DM wont let you wear a cats collar from an obscure web supplement meant as an April fools joke :smallsmile:)

[Curmudgeon]

Yes, quick loading and Rapid Reload accomplish the same thing: they get the new bolt in place quickly. You've still got to draw back the string, though. On a light crossbow that's just a free action, but on heavier crossbows you can use some additional help. Luckily, the self-loading enhancement (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 116; +10,000 gp) will pull back the string for you.

[Cieyrin]

Yes, quick loading and Rapid Reload accomplish the same thing: they get the new bolt in place quickly. You've still got to draw back the string, though. On a light crossbow that's just a free action, but on heavier crossbows you can use some additional help. Luckily, the self-loading enhancement (Arms and Equipment Guide, page 116; +10,000 gp) will pull back the string for you.

Self-Loading isn't an enhancement, it's a specific weapon, unless you're saying to extract what the difference is from the cost, which I suppose would be 10k. Either way, it'd probably be easier to just take the Self-Loading Crossbow, take Rapid Reload, since it specifically says it stacks, unlike Quick Loading, and then buff that up, so you don't need to bother with a Repeating Crossbow and save yourself feat slots.

[Curmudgeon]

Self-Loading isn't an enhancement, it's a specific weapon, unless you're saying to extract what the difference is from the cost, which I suppose would be 10k. Either way, it'd probably be easier to just take the Self-Loading Crossbow ...
Yes, that 10,000 gp is the extracted cost difference for self-loading.

Considerations of what's "easier" drop away when you realize that every 3.0 item has to be reviewed for any "minor adjustments" needed to make it work in a 3.5 D&D game. From page 4 of the 3.5 DMG:
This is an upgrade of the d20 System, not a new edition of the game. This revision is compatible with all existing products, and those products can be used with the revision with only minor adjustments.

[Cieyrin]

Yes, that 10,000 gp is the extracted cost difference for self-loading.

Considerations of what's "easier" drop away when you realize that every 3.0 item has to be reviewed for any "minor adjustments" needed to make it work in a 3.5 D&D game. From page 4 of the 3.5 DMG:

It's kinda a moot point, considering either way would involve review, plus just using the weapon as-is means less DM adjudication. If the creators wanted to make Self-Loading a weapon special ability, you'd think they would have along side Quick Loading, which didn't occur. In any case, my meaning of 'easier' was in reference to not having to spend an EWP on Repeating Crossbows when Self-Loading + Rapid Reload means free reload and not spending a full round action to load new clip, which none of the mentioned methods, besides the Collar, will actually alleviate.

[mabriss lethe]

Strongarm Bracers (MiC) and a Large sized Light X-bow?

[Firechanter]

"What makes a good soldier?"
"The ability to shoot ten quarrels per minute, in any weather!"

[Straymind]

I am thinking of using the large Heavy Repeater and Strongarm Bracers (MiC) because it fits the character's theme. The DM is a stickler for theme (as am I).

By the way, this board is awesome, thanks everyone. I'm really happy to see a bunch of classic RPG fans in an active forum.

[Firechanter]

OT, but this is really nagging at me:


If you're a heavy, where, in your build, is your Sandvich? You can't call yourself a heavy unless you can reliable and repeatedly fully heal yourself in a full-round, attack-provoking action, or better.

Sometimes I feel as if all these years I've been playing a completely different game.
What the fork is a "Sandvich"? And I must really have been missing out on the healing stuff. Does that mean only 9+ Clerics may call themselves Heavies? oÔ

Nobody else seems to be confused by this statement, so I suppose my 3.5 books must be broken.

[Cieyrin]

Sometimes I feel as if all these years I've been playing a completely different game.
What the fork is a "Sandvich"? And I must really have been missing out on the healing stuff. Does that mean only 9+ Clerics may call themselves Heavies? oÔ

Nobody else seems to be confused by this statement, so I suppose my 3.5 books must be broken.

He's talking about Team Fortress 2, which as a sandwich that heals the user. Heavy is also a reference to a character type in the game, which is a big guy with a massive machine gun, hence the heavy repeating crossbow.

[Firechanter]

...Ah. Okay. So D&D Heavies are not expected to fully heal themselves. I am relieved.