Mage Hand Question

[Macrado]

I have a group of players that raised a question I can't answer regarding the spell Mage Hand.

There is a barrel of water in front of them (unbeknownst to them, it is actually holy water). They want to use Mage Hand to remove some of the water.

The target for mage hand is: "One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb".

I argued that this won't work since it's hard to classify a quantity of water as a single object. If they put the water in a jar, then the object would be a jar of water, and I'd allow it. But to just lift out 5 pounds of water, I have a hard time agreeing to.

We compromised - since you can technically scoop water with your hands, you should be able to scoop it out with Mage Hand. However, since it's not a matter of simply picking it up anymore, he'll have to make a concentration check every round or spill the water (and lose the spell).

Now, the next part of the equation - this is holy water, not water. Does this count as magical? After all, Holy Water is water that has been enchanted with a Bless spell, correct? Thus the spell should fail regardless on this particular water, right?

So what do you guys think? Can Mage Hand pick up holy water?

[Volos]

Holy Water isn't really magical, it's divine. Magic was used to make it, but it isn't really all that magical itself. The entry on incomporal creatures states that an attack with Holy Water isn't a magical attack, so I would assume the water itself it not magical.

Also, why would spilling the water cause one to lose the spell? Dropping an item with Mage Hand doesn't end the spell. The only clause in the spell about losing it is when the distance between you and the affected object exceeds the spell's range. I don't see why they can't just pick up 5lbs of water and toss it at something. Using Mage Hand to make attacks isn't really possible, but moving the holy water from one place to the other or splashing an unaware target should be easy enough. If someone can see you doing it, they should be able to avoid it with no trouble. Concidering that a round is 6 seconds, and a move action is about half of your turn... moving the object 15 ft in 3 seconds means it's moving at 7mph. That's kinda slow. Yes, I know, catgirls died.

[Macrado]

Loss of the spell was part of the compromise, since I personally felt that lifting a nonsolid object was beyond the intention of the spell. Basically, he has to pass a concentration check each turn as though he were otherwise distracted. If he were distracted by any other means, he'd have to pass a concentration check or else the spell would end, correct?

You make a good point about holy water not being considered a magical attack under normal conditions, so I'll keep that in mind.

[Diarmuid]

While the spell allows for up to 5lb to be held, that assumes you have an object to hold onto.

I would just see approximately how much water you can hold in a cupped hand and let them move that much each round. It's going to be a far cry less than 5lb so they're not going to get the bang for their buck they're looking for, but it also is a compromise that makes sense.

[Forged Fury]

This is when you penalize the players for no one having purchased a 2cp clay mug.

(And subsuquently reward them for figuring out something else that might work, like the fighter's helmet).

[KillianHawkeye]

This is when you penalize the players for no one having purchased a 2cp clay mug.

This is the first time I've ever seen a reasonable excuse for buying that. :smallamused: