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View Full Version : Ideas for making a dungeon where time flows backwards?



Sipex
2011-03-22, 03:27 PM
System is irrelevant, it's the basic concept of things.

Basically, the PCs would have to get through a series of completely ruined rooms where their actions work backwards. A good example of this is an endless decanter of water would drain a room of water, not fill it.

The PCs would be able to function normally however, moving about and speaking as normal.

Each room would present a problem which the PCs would have to figure out what happened and cause it in reverse using their resources (ie: Finding a cut rope with a crashed chandelier, the PCs swing a bladed weapon where the rope was originally tied to cause the whole thing to happen backwards.

Thing is, it's hard to pin this, some ideas (the decanter) are more concrete and easy to understand than others (swinging your sword where a rope used to be?)

Is this as convoluted as it sounds? I like the premise and want to run with it but I don't want to be coming up with ludicrous ideas that are only obvious to me.

edit: It would be clear to the PCs that reverse time flow is the theme here. The dungeon would be infecting a town which sits on top of it where all the inhabitants (having been exposed to whatever is causing the effect for a prolonged period of time) would move and act backwards.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-22, 03:39 PM
So, I get xp for making babies?

Sipex
2011-03-22, 03:40 PM
...

note, don't let the players have sex in the dungeon, I really don't want to deal with those repercussions.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-22, 03:45 PM
Contingent Teleport to this dungeon upon death?

erikun
2011-03-22, 03:49 PM
First, I'd like a good explanation of what is happening in this dungeon. "Time going backwards when it doesn't affect the PCs" is a bit vague, and if we have some "real-world" idea of what is going on, we'll be better able to model it under the rules.

From the sounds of things, you want to set things up as a Legend of Zelda-style solution, where each puzzle has one definite solution in the party's inventory. This is a bit different than usual D&D, which has one definite problem and the party has to use whatever is in their inventory to find a way around it. What do you do if they try to bypass it? What if they do bypass it? I would recommend making the lake of water (or whatever) difficult but not impossible to cross, as ingenuity shouldn't be punished.

How do you know the party will have, say, a Decanter of Endless Water when they reach the lake? Is it something they have already? Are you planning on handing it out in the dungeon? How do you know they won't just head back to town and pawn the decanter off? Probably the best bet would be something clearly stating the way to bypass the lake - perhaps writing nearby, or nearby the location of the decanter, giving a hint.

For that matter, how will the party know the dungeon runs "backward" in time? It seems like only specific actions run things backwards.

fusilier
2011-03-22, 03:50 PM
Try to make the first puzzle as easy as possible, or something that they would stumble upon quickly.

For example, in the first room there can be a table with wine spilled on it, and a glass that's obviously been knocked over. Make something about the glass interesting (it's ornately etched, there's something written on it, etc.). Then when one of the characters picks up the glass and it is "righted" the wine can travel back into the glass.

Might take a few simple examples like that before they get it.

Something is lying broken on the floor. When one of the pieces is picked up and placed on a nearby workbench, the entire artifact reassembles itself resting precariously at the edge of the workbench. And so on.

Hmmm, I like this idea, I might have to steal it! :-)

gbprime
2011-03-22, 03:52 PM
...

note, don't let the players have sex in the dungeon, I really don't want to deal with those repercussions.

Don't cover them taking a poo either. The visual of THAT working in reverse... :smalleek:

Edan
2011-03-22, 04:22 PM
Don't cover them taking a poo either. The visual of THAT working in reverse... :smalleek:

They did that in Red Dwarf but with urine. I'm posting the link to the episode summary because it might give some interesting ideas, like getting punched where you have a broken rib heals you etc.

Red Dwarf Time Backwards Episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backwards_%28Red_Dwarf_episode%29)

Nepenthe
2011-03-22, 10:17 PM
My first thought was a trap where stalactites "fall" from the floor to the ceiling.

Bakkan
2011-03-22, 11:27 PM
My first thought was a trap where stalactites "fall" from the floor to the ceiling.

A thought inspired by this: what if time flowing backwards was only the case in some of the rooms, and the theme of the dungeon is just "backwards" in general? In one room, you have the spilled wine puzzle, in the next, gravity is reversed (but not when done to the PCs), in the next, casing cure spell harms and swinging a sword heals, etc (but not for the PCs). This would mean that in every room, the PCs have to figure out what's backwards about this room, because it might not be the same as last time.

You would need some explanation for why the PCs aren't affected, though.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-22, 11:40 PM
How do you enter a place in which time flows backward anyhow? Try to leave it? Without being in it?

mystic1110
2011-03-22, 11:52 PM
so basically you want to make a braid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game))based dungeon?

begooler
2011-03-23, 12:15 AM
so basically you want to make a braid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game))based dungeon?

Looking over that game could give you some great ideas for the mechanics.


What if, at the 'end' of the dungeon, the PCs traverse through it going forwards in time, their previous trip providing them with information they need to solve the puzzles.

One thing you have to come up with is why the reversed time only affects the rest of the environment and not the PCs. Are they on another plane that they are not affected by? Do they have magic items they wear?

MerlinTheWizard
2011-03-23, 01:28 AM
I thought of the game Braid as well.

It's a clever concept, and sounds like it's mostly puzzle based. If I were doing it, I would do everything backwards. Rather than getting the treasure by completing the dungeon, they get the treasure and then have to leave the dungeon. Some of the puzzles won't make sense obviously, but I'd say that's okay. A wizard did it. Plot hole filled.

The basic thing to remember is that whenever the party comes across something, whether it be a puzzle, a battle, or a trap, whatever it is has already been finished and completed. In order to solve it, they have to revert it back to how it started. Examples are (as already stated) emptying something that was full, taking apart a completed jigsaw puzzle, reviving a band of slain monsters, or pushing a rolling boulder trap back up into its hiding spot.

ffone
2011-03-23, 01:47 AM
One option, similar to last poster's ideas, is not to have actual time-magic going on, but just to 'reverse' certain dungeon tropes in a temporal way. The "dungeon" (holy temple or something with a good connotation, if it suits the PCs) has already been tromped through by a rival party, and the PCs have to reverse certain things they did (like un-springing traps and locking doors to reviving unconscious guardians), whether due to mechanical reasons (the machinery of the dungeon will reveal the PCs' sought treasure/macguffin once things all goes into place, like a Zelda puzzle) or magic/religious reasons (what the god or ghost of the place wants).

"Repairing stuff" sounds boring, but maybe you can think of fun things.

Sipex
2011-03-23, 08:27 AM
First of all, I do like to take a leaf out of the Zelda book of dungeon design, several of my planned dungeons have puzzles all based around a theme and several are very zelda inspired. That said, I don't discourage creativity.

In the lake of water example, anything would work, the decanter was just the easiest solution. If a wizard sat there and cast 'create water' over and over it would have the same effect along with any other creative solutions the PCs could come up with.

How this dungeon applies to my campaign:

In my particular example the PCs are hunting down some of the gems used to summon Tharizdun (although they don't know this, they just know they're hunting down gems which a cult they oppose is also seeking). As a part of the flair to my campaign the gems call out and eventually infect a troubled individual. Once this happens a trait of the individual (themed around their trouble) infects an area. It takes a while for the infection to seep in so the PCs have immunity via limited exposure (although if they hung around for long enough I'd start hitting them with the effects as well). At the epicenter of the infection is the dungeon which is themed appropriately.

For this gem the individual regrets something and wishes only that they could turn back time to undo it. Hence the theme of going back in time. The dungeon will be placed underneath a village which is also infected with people moving backwards, speaking backwards, etc.

Also, I can explain away any room because of the effects these gems have. The PCs have already accepted that when one of these things is present, questions like "Why is there a dragon here? It doesn't even make sense." get thrown out the window.


I do like the idea that the theme of the dungeon isn't strictly 'rewinding time' but instead 'backwards' so each room is a different experience. It also keeps me from having to keep track of the idea of rewinding time in more than one puzzle.

So some ideas gleaned so far:
- The aforementioned backwards time room, where your action subsequently undoes something in the room.
- Reverse gravity on everything but the PCs room. Use interactive traps here (like a wandering boulder)
- Reverse power battle. The lower your numbers, the better. This will require some research on my PCs so I can hit the sweet spot, effectively making the weakest player as effective as the strongest usually is. This will also reward PCs who bring along spare, weaker weapons.
- Everdark room. Light sources give off crushing darkness instead of light. Of course, the room will be fully 'lit up' at the start so it'll be interesting watching the PCs puzzle their way out of this one. Also, it's just the thing I've been waiting for to tell sunrods to go eat a lemon.

Cyrion
2011-03-23, 09:35 AM
I'd be tempted to try to do something with time running backwards for the players, too. Recognizing that the gems have done their widdly-woo, the characters find themselves at the end of the dungeon, half the party missing or dead, the wizard with a single Prestidigation spell memorized, and knowing that they failed at a task where failure wasn't an option. They then go through rapid reverse through part of the dungeon and re-experience the events that led to that situation- mechanically, this is probably story exposition, so you'll likely want to keep it short- and arrive at the beginning of the dungeon healthy and fully prepped. Their task is to complete the events going forward in time, but avoid the outcome they've seen.

Set the encounters they've seen to be overpowered or stacked against some of the party's traditional tactics. Allow them to change a few spell choices to take advantage of little-used gems in their spell books, explore different paths of the dungeon, etc.

Just brainstorming here- this idea still needs a lot of work, but it seems like you could do something interesting with the fact that the party know where the dragon is and just how it butchered them.

erikun
2011-03-23, 02:17 PM
If the gem is causing all the problems, then wouldn't taking the gem with the party as they travel begin to affect them with its backward-causality? This would make me very, very cautious about keeping such an artifact anywhere near me. The PCs might need to think of a way to keep the gem from messing up their daily lives before the adventure even begins.

Secondly, is everything backwards or just time backwards? Because lighting a torch wouldn't pull light into it - rather, lighting it would put it out and blowing on it with a strong wind would light it.

Other than that, here's a few ideas of puzzles which the party may or may not get.

- A partially collapsed room, and when they step on the "pressure plate" in the middle of the room, the rubble begins levitating and re-forming into the ceiling. Reflex save to avoid being crushed in the movement and taking damage (or getting stuck, with the party trying to figure out how to get them down).

- An emancipated skeleton. Hand-feeding it and providing it water will "revive" the person, who has learned to backwards-speak (poorly) and gives the party some idea of what is going on.

- Watering a room full of dangerous plants (thorns, briars, Assassin Vines) causes them to "wither" and grow into buds. Similar logic can be applied to poisonous flowers or mold - a Sunrod will help the flowers to "unbloom", or turning off the lights will cause the mold to quickly "ungrow" and take the toxic spores with them.

- An ares has several plant or undead guardians, along with large areas of disturbed ground. Preparing the ground - either tilling it for plants, or making graves for undead - will cause them to plant/bury themselves and stop guarding the way.

- Taking apart a golem in an empty, underground workshop by buying tools in-town, at which point it will calmly sit down and allow a craft check be made to disassemble it.

A lot of these ideas can be bypassed the normal way (frequently combat), but they give other options for players who want to thing of how it relates to the dungeon.