Where do you go after becoming a lich?

[TheDarkDM]

Okay, some backstory. I'm currently in a campaign where we've reached level sixteen, and will soon be passing into epic. I'm playing a straight Dread Necromancer (yes, I know it isn't op), and am unsure about where to go after 20. The number of available Charisma based casters isn't really riveting, and the various homebrew Epic Dread Necromancers aren't very interesting (save the one that made you a Demi Lich, but that seems to have disappeared). So, Playground, do you have any suggestions as to where to take a 20th level Dread Necromancer lich?

Oh, and we're in Eberron, if you care to know.

[Goonthegoof]

Rainbow servant if you're likely to get to 30, incantatrix if you're allowed to take cross-setting classes or if your defenses need a boost take practised spellcaster and a couple of levels of paladin/monk.

[TheDarkDM]

Hm, Rainbow Servant looks interesting. Sadly, as befits an imperialistic Dread Necromancer, I am Lawful Evil...

Still, this is Eberron...

[Milo v3]

What other qualities does the character have?
Obviously high Charisma, but whats his Second highest?
Why kind of feats does the character have?

Also have you thought of the Frank & K material "Tome of Necromancy". It help's Necromancer's out tonnes. Especially the feats and prestige classes.

[TheDarkDM]

I'm leery of going Tome, as we already put our DM through frequent bouts of depression by trouncing his encounters.

But, as for other abilities, here's where he stands pre-magic:

Str: 10
Dex: 16
Con: 8 (Don't judge :smalltongue:)
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 19

Feats:
Tomb Tainted Soul
Spell Focus (Necromancy)
Greater Spell Focus (Necrommancy)
Spell Penetration
Leadership (Dragonfire Inspiration Bard w. Requiem feat)
Shadow Weave Magic (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting)
Mother Cyst

Human race, with an Imp familiar.

[Alleran]

Str: 10
Dex: 16
Con: 8 (Don't judge :smalltongue:)
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Int: 16
Presuming that INT at the end there should be CHA, only 16? Really? At sixteenth level, you should be well into the 20s once items are factored in.

[TheDarkDM]

Whoops, that is a typo. I'll go back and edit, but no, non-magic Charisma is at a 19.

[Daftendirekt]

Should've gone Necropolitan and saved that feat slot for something besides Tomb-Tainted Soul, but, oh well, too late on that one.

Maybe go Ur Priest?

[TheDarkDM]

My DM was unwilling to allow me Necropolitan, sadly. Otherwise I would have been there like butter on toast.

And sadly, Ur Priest is reliant on Wisdom, which I have none of.

[Milo v3]

The Feats look good especially Mother Cyst, Tomb Tainted Soul is kind of wasted once you reach level 20 though (Great until then though)

Nothings wrong with 8 Con. It's always my dump state.

Complete Mage Suggests Palemaster and I agree. Its a great prestige class with the only one problem (Level One). Doesn't rely on Int or Wis.

But it might not be powerful enough for epic levels though.

[Pentachoron]

Take Epic Spellcasting, after that everything else is trivial.

[Darth Stabber]

Take Epic Spellcasting, after that everything else is trivial.

True enough.

Honestly, any full casting PRC is great(you still want a decent caster level). Archmage, Iot7FV, Palemaster (first level being terrible aside), Loremaster (if you spent a feat or 2 on bloodline/domains), or anything. Anything that gives you bonus feats is the made of win. Epic levels is all about bringing the best feats to the table.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hm, Rainbow Servant looks interesting. Sadly, as befits an imperialistic Dread Necromancer, I am Lawful Evil...

Still, this is Eberron...

IIRC there is an adaptation so you can serve another monster other than Coatls, so for example you change the Rainbow Servant to be a Stripped Servant and instead of venerating Coatls, you could venerate Rakshasas. Just change a bit of the class features and voila (change the access to Good domain for Evil and air for... I don't know Earth?)

[Noneoyabizzness]

gotta agree with a variant on rs like naga apostate, or of course epic spellcasting



or take up wizard and go ultimate magus. you are now immortal the idea of fleshing out a book of spells that you wouldnt know otherwise seems epiclichy to me

[Lyndworm]

IIRC there is an adaptation so you can serve another monster other than Coatls, so for example you change the Rainbow Servant to be a Stripped Servant and instead of venerating Coatls, you could venerate Rakshasas. Just change a bit of the class features and voila (change the access to Good domain for Evil and air for... I don't know Earth?)

There's even a specific type of Rakshasa (the Ak'Chazar from MM3) that focuses on Necromancy magic, so that makes a lot of sense for the proposed character.

[Darth Stabber]

or take up wizard and go ultimate magus. you are now immortal the idea of fleshing out a book of spells that you wouldnt know otherwise seems epiclichy to me

That is probably the best Idea so far. Once you're immortal, covering your bases is just prudent. Really any dual casting PRC that combines DN with another charisma based caster is money, and you have the int to open even more doors. Go for soulcaster, eldritch theurge, mystic theurge (or one of the better versions) via archivist, Jade Pheonix Mage, and Cerebramancer while you're at it. (Is undead meldshaper based on CHA or WIS)

[TheDarkDM]

That is probably the best Idea so far. Once you're immortal, covering your bases is just prudent. Really any dual casting PRC that combines DN with another charisma based caster is money, and you have the int to open even more doors. Go for soulcaster, eldritch theurge, mystic theurge (or one of the better versions) via archivist, Jade Pheonix Mage, and Cerebramancer while you're at it. (Is undead meldshaper based on CHA or WIS)

Yes, this was my thinking as well. I have to ask though, where is soulcaster from? I recognize the others...

Also, because Crystal Keep seems to have suffered a massive blow, are there any Wizard variants that use Charisma?

[Darth Stabber]

Soul caster is in magic of incarnum. It theurges Incarnate (or totemist) with arcane.

You have a 16 base int, so long as you aren't throwing around things that require saves, that is more than sufficient once you have a headband of intellect +4 (all but free by epic levels).

So every time you run out a theurge class, you have to burn 1-3 caster levels to get into the next one. Soulcaster burns two, JPM burns only 1, Mystic theurge burns 3, barring cheese Ultimage magus burns 3.

[gorfnab]

Escalation Mage from Faiths of Eberron might work for you.