Cha based arcane classes

[Talbot]

Are there any besides Sorc, Bard, and Warlock? Particularly any with skillpoints? I want to make a Crusader/Arcane Class/JPH, but I don't want to do Bardsader, Warlock doesn't work, and I'd like to do something a little more interesting than Sorc.

[neoseph7]

Warmages are also cha based, and have some incentive for higher int=> skill points. But not that I know of otherwise. Maybe use a variant for the classes you've already nixed?

even go so far as to develop your own class (with DMs permission of course) using the generic classes introduced in Unearthed Arcana as a template. If I were a DM and found a player wanted something that wasn't there and had no need to not be, that's what I'd do.

[kiryoku]

does it have to be arcane?

[Cog]

does it have to be arcane?
For Jade Phoenix Mage, yes.

Dread Necromancer is Cha, I believe. If you want skills, though, Bard is pretty much what you're stuck with. It's a pretty flexible class with tons of ACFs, and if there's something particular you don't like about it we can probably help you work around it.

Alternatively, Beguiler would be reasonable if handwaved to cast off Cha instead of Int. Less skillmonkeying, but better chances on opposed checks for your Charm spells and such.

[Dr.Epic]

I thought they were all cha except wizard.:smallconfused:

[Talbot]

For Jade Phoenix Mage, yes.

Dread Necromancer is Cha, I believe. If you want skills, though, Bard is pretty much what you're stuck with. It's a pretty flexible class with tons of ACFs, and if there's something particular you don't like about it we can probably help you work around it.

Alternatively, Beguiler would be reasonable if handwaved to cast off Cha instead of Int. Less skillmonkeying, but better chances on opposed checks for your Charm spells and such.

Well, the things I want from it, in order, are:

1) Ranged blasting (which is why Warlock would have been fun, and why Bard and Beguiler aren't really a good fit).
2) Skillpoints
3) Buffing
4) Versatility

[Noneoyabizzness]

Warmage has all the range shooting you may need as well as eventual medium armor use.

Beguiler has more skills and spell variety.

Dread necro just offers death.

Buffing go bard

[Cog]

I thought they were all cha except wizard.:smallconfused:
Wu Jen and Beguiler are both Int.

We can add Dragon Compendium' Sha'ir to the Cha list, but it doesn't have anything particular that's good here either.

[Zaq]

If Warlock counts, DFA should count also. They're more CON-heavy than CHA-heavy, but their invocations do use CHA (that is, if you choose the ones that allow saves at all). They're about as CHA-based as the Warlock is (maybe slightly less so). They do get 4 + INT skills from a pretty decent list, though.

You might also look into weird casty PrCs. Specifically, I'm thinking Suel Archanamach. I don't know if it'd do what you're looking for, but it's not completely terrible.

Oh, and Spellthieves are technically CHA-based. They have good skills, too. Their casting is just, well, not why you're playing one. The same is true of the Hexblade, but they don't even get good skills. They're clearly not what you want, but I'm just adding them for completeness.

[Talbot]

Actually... would Binder work? Like, would JPH advance their vestiges, or does that not count as "arcane spellcasting class"?

[Zaq]

Binders don't even come close to being arcane casters. Basically nothing outside of Legacy Champion, Uncanny Trickster, and the PrCs in ToM actually advance soul binding. (Shadowcasters at least get to advance with generic "+1 of existing casting class" PrCs. Truenamers, on the other hand, get nothing, including in ToM.) You could try talking your GM into it, but it's a long shot (and there's really nothing to support you by RAW).

[Etrivar]

The only other arcane caster based on Char I can think of is the Spellthief, but that doesn't fit your needs in the least.

[Alabenson]

Well, the things I want from it, in order, are:

1) Ranged blasting (which is why Warlock would have been fun, and why Bard and Beguiler aren't really a good fit).
2) Skillpoints
3) Buffing
4) Versatility

The first major problem you have is that items 1 and 2 are more or less mutally exclusive, any arcane spellcasting class with strong offense is going to be light on skillpoints. Sticking to item 1, you're best choices are either
1) Sorcerer, a little boring but you can meet criteria 3 & 4 with good spells known choices.
2) Warmage, very strong blasting, but lacks any good buffing spells, and doesn't have much versatility.
3) Dread Necromancer, some blasting potential, one or two buffs and moderate versatility, doesn't really excel in any one area though, and the spell selection is fairly narrow in scope.

Beyond that, the other classes are
1) Warlock and Dragonfire Adept; invocation users, and thus no good for Jade Pheonix Mage
2) Bard; good skills, buffing, and versatility, but fairly weak blasting capability.
3) Hexblade and Spellthief; neither get 2nd level spells until 8th level, and neither has the blasting ability you're looking for.

I think that more or less covers all of the cha-based arcane spellcasters.

[Amphetryon]

Swordsaged, but you could try to blunt-force your way into it with a ranged Hexblade. You'd probably need to abuse Illumian sigils, Earth Spell, and Sanctum Spell in some combination to make it viable for JPM.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

You didn't specify base classes so here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8664.0)is the comprehensive list on the forum tha

[Psyren]

Actually... would Binder work? Like, would JPM advance their vestiges, or does that not count as "arcane spellcasting class"?

No, but if what you want is a gish Binder, they get their own awesome PrC - Knight of the Sacred Seal, which is full BAB and 5/5 soul binding.

They can also blast pretty well, via vestiges like Focalor or Orthos, or via items with Karsus etc.


You didn't specify base classes so here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8664.0)is the comprehensive list on the forum tha

How long do you plan on perpetuating this ridiculous Candle Jack jo

[Joshinthemosh]

Okay what level are you starting this thing at? Because if you are decently high you could just use the Slippers of Battledancing item from the DMG 2 which gives you attack and damage from Cha instead of Str. Saves taking Weapon Finesse too. Then you can boost Int in place of Str. Can help with that skill issue....but that still leaves the class issue. Another problem with that is it only works with light and one handed weapons which can be workable.

[Talbot]

No idea on level, as it's a backup character.

My problem is this: I want a Crusader/Blaster with skillpoints and dual progression, which means JPH because nothing else progresses Maneuvers and Spells except Windicator, and I don't care about Weejas and would prefer not to be divine. Buffs would be nice, but are probably not in the cards. Starting to look like what I want doesn't exist.

On the other hand, it seems like it'd be fairly easy to go Warblade/Int Blaster/JPH, possibly with a psionic class (unless I'm misunderstanding the transparency rules, which I wouldn't rule out) I just don't particularly want to.

[Zaq]

Well, Crusader doesn't really need CHA. Very few maneuvers actually key off of it, the smite attack is nifty but not really a tragedy to lose, and Indomitable Soul is pretty much just to reduce MAD more than to actually give CHA a specific use. You wouldn't lose much by going Crusader/INT-based caster/JPM. You'd be ever so slightly more MAD, but honestly, not terribly much more so than you would have been to begin with.

That said, the only arcane casters who really get any skills to speak of (ignoring points per level and just looking at the lists) are Beguilers and Spellthieves. Beguilers are a grand old time, of course, but they're very much not blasters—at least not without heavy use of list-expanding tricks like the Bloodlines from Dragon Compendium (not UA), Arcane Disciple, and so on.

So really, INT or CHA be damned; I think your biggest problem comes from the desire to have a skillpoint-rich blaster without devoting your PrC to it (Unseen Seer, anyone?).

[Cog]

I think your biggest problem comes from the desire to have a skillpoint-rich blaster without devoting your PrC to it (Unseen Seer, anyone?).
This. There's three basic things to do in DnD; skills, smashes, and spellcasting. Getting two of them together is pretty easy, but getting everything in one package is going to require sacrifices somewhere.

Or playing a Wizard. But that's a sacrifice of an entirely different kind.

[The Cat Goddess]

Someone needs to make a version of JPM for Psionics...

[Draz74]

There's three basic things to do in DnD; skills, smashes, and spellcasting. Getting two of them together is pretty easy, but getting everything in one package is going to require sacrifices somewhere.

Unless Mystic Ranger is allowed. :smalltongue:

[Talbot]

Ok, what about shenaniganing to get that 2nd level spell, then using Warlock? I assume there's a bloodlines way to do it, at least.

[Cog]

Unless Mystic Ranger is allowed. :smalltongue:
A d8 hit die, no heavy artillery spells, 1/2 caster level, top out at fifth level spells.

Nope. I don't see any sacrifices there. :smallcool:

[Amphetryon]

Ok, what about shenaniganing to get that 2nd level spell, then using Warlock? I assume there's a bloodlines way to do it, at least.

There's a huge debate about whether you can use Precocious Apprentice + UrKrau sigil + Earth Spell to accomplish this sort of thing. Consult your DM.