Gannji's personality - who is he really?

[Edhelras]

At first I thought of Gannji and Enor as only minor characters, just being there to bring Elan&Haley to Tarquin and bring the plot along. But the more we see of them, and Gannji in particular, the more fleshed-out he becomes. In fact, after the latest comic 783, I think of him as a really interesting character.

There is something "real" about him, that I cannot put my finger on.
He's a bounty hunter, but with a sense of both morality and pragmatism to it - so he's far more nuanced than the ordinary, single-minded bounty hunters known from pop culture.
He's cunning, but makes mistakes.
He has a big mouth, but is either cautious or cowardly, but facing death shows extraordinary courage.
He's kinda optimistic in a very sympathetic fashion - but his optimism is frequently misplaced, or at least immediately thwarted by an unexpected turn of events. He generates something of that sympathy we get from Donald Duck when he struggles against and always loses for his lucky cousin Gladstone.
He's an astonishingly good and nice friend to Enor; he's loyal even facing death, he's taking care of Enor, he's accepting Enor's dim-wittedness as it is, and still treating him as a friend.

Despite the relatively few strips we've seen Gannji in, I feel that he has been portrayed as an exceptionally complex and believeable character. I know that I should dislike him, since he's an antagonist, but I cannot help but like him. And I like him in a quite different fashion than I like Redcloak: Redcloak and his ambivalence and complexity is - to me - more part of the comic relief and absurdity of his situation. Like, perhaps, Redcloak could be an antagonist in the Seinfeld universe. Gannji feels too real for Seinfeld, he's more like he's been taken from a "real" psychological movie.

So I wonder; "who" is Gannji? Apart from being his fleshed-out self and created by Rich, who in pop culture can we compare him to? What is his archetype? I have no answers myself, but would like to discuss.

[Lord Bingo]

Well, in short I think that you might compare Gannji (as we see him in #783) to any character in pop culture who is willing to lay down his or her life so that another -usually close relative or lover- may live. There is a slight twist to this, however, in that Gannji is not laying down his life at all: he plans to be resurrected.
He knows that one of them has to die unless they are both destroyed and he is merely hedging his bet. Gannji is like a father figure to Enor and Gannji tells him exactly what he needs to tell him to get him to do what he wants him to do -just like we have seen in earlier strips.
I am not saying that Gannji has maliciously been manipulating a gentle giant all this time. I believe he genuinely cares for Enor an because of that he says and does what he has to to ensure that Enor survives, even if it includes being hurtful and/or telling lies.

[SPoD]

But keep in mind that Gannji's plan involves a huge risk to himself: mainly, that Enor will even be able to raise him from the dead. What if Enor isn't allowed to keep a tip of his tail? What if he loses it? What if he never escapes from the arena? What if he never earns enough money to hire a cleric? Look how long it took Roy to get raised, after all. The risk might not be as great as if resurrection didn't exist, but it's not non-existent.

I'm going to go so far as to say that I think Gannji (and Enor) are "false" antagonists. If they live through this, it's going to be because the OOTS intervened somehow, and they'll become allies against Tarquin. His grudge against Roy will pale in comparison to his grudge against Tarquin. So I don't think it's wrong to like him, because I think he's being written in such a way that he can switch teams and be a likable tertiary "good guy," like Niu or the Katos.

[Edhelras]

Hm. That's an interesting view (responding to Lord Bingo). I'm a father of two little girls myself, maybe my sympathy for Gannji stems from some kind of recognition of that relationship between Gannji and Enor.

However, I'm not certain that Gannji is so merely manipulating Enor in order to get himself resurrected. That plan seems quite shaky and relies on a lot of circumstances. Firstly, Enor would have to survive the upcoming duels, and then escape from the prison. Second, this would either have to happen quite fast, or Enor would need to find a really high-lvl cleric and a lot of diamonds. Raise dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm)would only be possible for 1 day per cleric level after Gannji's death.
Ressurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm) would be possible even if Enor remained imprisoned for many decades - provided that he managed to keep that tail reasonably intact. And it would require Enor to find a lvl 13 cleric and 10000 worth of diamonds - not so easy for the dim-witted Enor who has been relying on Gannji to come up with the good plans.

I'm not saying that Gannji had any better options available - only that actually there in the arena, he faces almost certain and irrepairable death. And STILL he does not betray his friend (as far as we have seen, yet). I agree - that indicates that his feelings towards Enor are almost fatherly, more than brotherly or simple friendship. At least personally, the only people I'm reasonably certain that I would sacrifice myself for, even in the face of certain death, are my children.

BTW that's another interpretation of the "Cold blooded" title of the comic: Gannji's prepared self-sacrifice is in a way "cold blooded" - by which I mean it's a deliberated choice, not that kind of impulsiveness by which someone throws himself in harms way and saves a comrade, or walks into a burning house to futilely try to save someone. Also, I guess Gannji is really cold-blooded since he's a lizard?

[Goonthegoof]

I think the 'cold blooded' bit is referring to the way Tarquin was acting.

[Lord Bingo]

I certainly agree that Gannji's plan carries a huge risk, but his only alternative is certain and irrevocable death -or so it seems.

As it is, my guess is that Enor will now throw himself upon Gannji thus shielding him from the crossbow bolts. This will give Elan enough time to convince his father to spare Gannji's life and the lizard is thus thrown back in with the prisoners. Gannji is, after all, a much more developed character than Enor and IMO it is too early to kill him. In this regard I agree with SPoD that Gannji will ally with the Order against Tarquin, though I never thought of the the bounty hunters as antagonists in the first place but more like supporting cast.

[factotum]

Second, this would either have to happen quite fast, or Enor would need to find a really high-lvl cleric and a lot of diamonds. Raise dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm)would only be possible for 1 day per cleric level after Gannji's death.


Gannji is assuming the use of Resurrection here--note that he only asks Enor to take the tip of his tail, whereas you'd need the entire body to perform a Raise Dead. Of course, that makes the plan even *less* likely to work, because it requires more diamonds and a higher-level cleric.

Personally I think Gannji knows they'll both die if they don't fight, and he's trying to save Enor's life at the cost of his own--he doesn't really have an expectation that he'll successfully get resurrected.

[Scarlet Knight]

I think there's a similarity with Clint Eastwood's " Man with no Name". Most of the time his motivation is money & sometimes does crummy things, but he does have an homorable streak, especially compared to other gunfighters he meets.

[LightsOnNo1Home]

I'm going to go so far as to say that I think Gannji (and Enor) are "false" antagonists. If they live through this, it's going to be because the OOTS intervened somehow, and they'll become allies against Tarquin. His grudge against Roy will pale in comparison to his grudge against Tarquin. So I don't think it's wrong to like him, because I think he's being written in such a way that he can switch teams and be a likable tertiary "good guy," like Niu or the Katos.

Alternatively there is about to be an empty slot opening up within the Order. I don't think it's particularly likely, but it's a possibility.

[Trebuchet]

So I wonder; "who" is Gannji? Apart from being his fleshed-out self and created by Rich, who in pop culture can we compare him to? What is his archetype? I have no answers myself, but would like to discuss.

For an archetype, I'd have to go with George Milton from Of Mice and Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men). George is of average stature, intelligent, and with big dreams that he doubts will ever come to pass. He does his best to keep his large, strong, and simple friend Lennie Small out of trouble.

The end scene is different from strip 783 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0783.html), but feels similar to me.

Lennie, having accidentally killed someone, is about to be executed for it. The only way George can see to protect Lennie is to give him a quick, painless death, saving him from a worse fate. Their dreams are over.
Of course, this might be me just going for the obvious. Anytime you have a partnership between a big dim guy and a shorter smart guy who takes care of him, it is hard not to think of George and Lennie.

I agree with factotum that Gannji doesn't really expect to be resurrected. That hope is more of a gift to Enor.

[skim172]

He seems to be just a decent guy. Doesn't seek to be a villain, or to be a hero - just doing his job. He's a bounty hunter. He captured Elan because there was a contract. He didn't help out Roy because that's his policy. And he's a jerk to Roy because he blames Roy for getting the two of them into this mess.

He's not a compassionate bleeding heart, but he doesn't really seem evil. He seems to hold to a fairly upstanding code of contact - he's professional, not greedy, and he's honest. And he's caring for his friend.

He's not evil, but he is an antagonist. He ended up in the position of working against the good guy's interests, without knowing they were the good guys. Gannji and Enor seem to me to be just two regular guys, caught up in something that doesn't really involve them, but they'll end up paying for it anyway.

It bothers me that if the two of them die, that the best anyone will say about them is, "They're jackasses, but they didn't deserve it." Hardly a complimentary epitaph.

Although it strikes me that if one of them lives, then they'll blame the Order of the Stick for the death of the other. It was pursuing this contract that got them into this and it was the fight with Roy that got them into the arena. And there's Elan, sitting up in the booth, with his father, the man that screwed them over. They might not be evil - they might even be good - but they'll be enemies of the Order. If they survive.

[Ceaon]

I think the problem with determining whether Gannji and Enor are evil comes with the problem that is inherent in D&D.

In D&D, most adventurers are good (or at least neutral) people, fighting either to become, powerful, rich and famous, to protect the commoners, to seek redemption, what have you. However, they do this by killing other sentient beings.

In the real world, most jobs that see killing as one of the first options available would be considered evil (note that I say most, and I know in the real world 'evil' is not some quality you have or lack).

In the real world, most mercenaries/assassins etc. would be criminals. In the real world, people like Gannji and Enor would be criminals and evil . However, in a D&D comic, where adventurers are often regarded as good, mercenaries are much easier to envision as non-evil. And so, we see Gannji and Enor for what they are in these last few strips: as sympathetic.

I'm starting to lose my train of thought here, but does anyone understand and/or agree with what I'm saying?

[ThePhantasm]

I think the problem with determining whether Gannji and Enor are evil comes with the problem that is inherent in D&D.

In D&D, most adventurers are good (or at least neutral) people, fighting either to become, powerful, rich and famous, to protect the commoners, to seek redemption, what have you. However, they do this by killing other sentient beings.

In the real world, most jobs that see killing as one of the first options available would be considered evil (note that I say most, and I know in the real world 'evil' is not some quality you have or lack).

In the real world, most mercenaries/assassins etc. would be criminals. In the real world, people like Gannji and Enor would be criminals and evil . However, in a D&D comic, where adventurers are often regarded as good, mercenaries are much easier to envision as non-evil. And so, we see Gannji and Enor for what they are in these last few strips: as sympathetic.

I'm starting to lose my train of thought here, but does anyone understand and/or agree with what I'm saying?

I get it. There is a thin line between a bounty hunter and someone who kills as part of a quest.

[skim172]

In the real world, most mercenaries/assassins etc. would be criminals. In the real world, people like Gannji and Enor would be criminals and evil . However, in a D&D comic, where adventurers are often regarded as good, mercenaries are much easier to envision as non-evil. And so, we see Gannji and Enor for what they are in these last few strips: as sympathetic.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. For starters, in real life, there are mercenaries and they're usually not seen as criminals, provided that their activities are within the bounds of the law. And also, Gannji and Enor are clearly bounty hunters, which in real life is considered a bit more acceptable as cocktail conversation, since bounty hunters generally chase down criminals.

I would argue that in a fantasy context, Gannji and Enor are perhaps more honorable than your typical band of traveling heroes. Such adventurers are often driven by a desire for more gold, xp, items, whatever, and will usually seek out violence. Gannji and Enor display a level of restraint the typical adventurer killing anyone they can within alignment restrictions does not usually have.

In fact, since they clearly display a willingness to abide by the accepted legal code, they're probably better for society as a whole. I mean, when's the last time your D&D character brought a suspect in to be tried in a court of law?

[Edhelras]

For an archetype, I'd have to go with George Milton from Of Mice and Men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men). George is of average stature, intelligent, and with big dreams that he doubts will ever come to pass. He does his best to keep his large, strong, and simple friend Lennie Small out of trouble.

YES!! Thank you! That's exactly the image I had in the back of my mind, I think. Or, at least, I think George and Lennie are very good matches with Gannji and Enor. Truthfully it's many years since I read the book and watched the film, but as I remember it, it's true.

BTW I also came to think about Gilbert in "What's eating Gilbert Grape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_Eating_Gilbert_Grape)", thinking of that very straigth, very decent guy who still gets into some trouble and who strives to fit in, and has a troubled, but very strong relationship to his "dumb" brother. There is something with that relationship: He's frustrated, irritated by his brother's lack of intelligence and stray behavior, but his frustration is not really directed at his brother: Rather, he accepts it as a phenomenon for which his brother cannot be blamed, or held responsible, something external to them both.

Maybe I'm overdoing it, but fact is that this kind of psychological musing struck me when considering Gannji and Enor - and again I think that's a big achievenent by that guy who draws stick figures...

[LuPuWei]

I think there's a similarity with Clint Eastwood's " Man with no Name". Most of the time his motivation is money & sometimes does crummy things, but he does have an homorable streak, especially compared to other gunfighters he meets.

I like this comparison.

[Velaryon]

I'm going to go so far as to say that I think Gannji (and Enor) are "false" antagonists. If they live through this, it's going to be because the OOTS intervened somehow, and they'll become allies against Tarquin. His grudge against Roy will pale in comparison to his grudge against Tarquin. So I don't think it's wrong to like him, because I think he's being written in such a way that he can switch teams and be a likable tertiary "good guy," like Niu or the Katos.

This is along the lines of what I'm thinking. Enor might or might not react quickly enough to try and shield Gannji - there's no doubt in my mind that he would if he could.

In the event that Enor successfully shielded him, Tarquin seems unlikely to spare Gannji. But if anything is going to convince him it would be an impassioned plea from Elan. The question is whether Tarquin would see that act as an opportunity to please his son, or as a chance to give him a "lesson" in how people like Gannji must be dealt with.

If one or the other of them successfully makes it through this, then Gannji and Enor have every reason to stop antagonizing the Order and become their allies, at least as concerns dealing with Tarquin and company. For that matter, if they both die but then get raised later (perhaps Elan will feel guilty that Tarquin misinterpreted his wishes and finance getting them raised), then they have even more reason to want revenge on the dictator.

Either way, I think all hope of Enor and/or Gannji ever making it past the next strip rests squarely on the shoulders of a certain dim-witted bard.

[NegativeFifteen]

Gannji is a good man, who seems reasonably intelligent. It also seems hes been working with Enor for a long time, based on how emotional they were in 783, so he probably knew if Enor would be able to get him raised or not. All things considered, he was looking out for Enor over himself, which has been consistent with his character. He is a man of honor, in his refusal to take advantage of a legal system, and he is loyal to Enor even though Enor seems to frustrate him sometimes. Yes, he is a bounty hunter, but that isn't an evil profession. Sure, he isn't doing it for the act of bringing criminals to justice, but I'm pretty sure most people don't do their jobs because its the right thing to do.

[Mr. Snuggles]

So I wonder; "who" is Gannji? Apart from being his fleshed-out self and created by Rich, who in pop culture can we compare him to? What is his archetype? I have no answers myself, but would like to discuss.
Does EVERYTHING have to conform with previously established standards? Does every single character have to be an archetype? Can't the author, you know, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW once in a while? Just a thought.

[ThePhantasm]

Does EVERYTHING have to conform with previously established standards? Does every single character have to be an archetype? Can't the author, you know, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW once in a while? Just a thought.

This is absurd. /sarcasm

[Edhelras]

Does EVERYTHING have to conform with previously established standards? Does every single character have to be an archetype? Can't the author, you know, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW once in a while? Just a thought.

Why the anger? I just stated that I found Gannji (in particular) and Enor to be surprisingly intriguing, nuanced and interesting characters, even among a cast of characters that are already creating tons of fan discussions. Can't see why it's forbidden to look for ways to engage even deeper with those stick figures, flesh them out even more.

BTW maybe I didn't explain myself properly, I didn't really mean that the author has "stolen" or "imported" these characters. The feeling I got was that there was something unexpectedly "real" about Gannji, and I tried to formulate what exactly it was. Sorry if that offended you.

[Ancalagon]

Can't the author, you know, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW once in a while?

Given that we look at like 2500 or 3000 years (starting with the Iliad) of written stories this assumption seems pretty unlikely.

I doubt anyone could create something genuinely new that is not completely random - and even completely random and nonsensical things (created by bad authors) have been done over and over already.

[Jay R]

Given that we look at like 2500 or 3000 years (starting with the Iliad) of written stories this assumption seems pretty unlikely.

It's worse than you think. The Iliad was a re-telling of a known story.

[Jay R]

Can't the author, you know, COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW once in a while? Just a thought.

According to Aristotle, no. Proper story-telling is mimesis -- imitation. The art comes in making a pleasing arrangement of the elements.

Think about it -- Rich's world is based on D&D. If he had come up with something totally new, the rules jokes wouldn't be funny.

A story idea that's completely new is a story idea that's alien to our lives, and to our thoughts. A character that's not based on characters in real life is an unintelligible character.

[Prowl]

Gannji = Han Solo

Enor = Chewbacca

[JonestheSpy]

I doubt anyone could create something genuinely new that is not completely random - and even completely random and nonsensical things (created by bad authors) have been done over and over already.

Did -did that halfling just hit me int he face with a pineapple? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0515.html)

Bonus points!

[veti]

I think the 'cold blooded' bit is referring to the way Tarquin was acting.

I think "Cold-Blooded" is the single best title of any strip to date.

Gannji and Enor are both reptilian - cold-blooded in the literal sense. But they're shown as anything but uncaring - both of them are willing to make extreme sacrifices for each other. Tarquin, on the other hand, despite being a mammal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html), is entirely 'cold-blooded' in the metaphorical sense.

So the metaphorical sense of the phrase is in direct opposition to its literal meaning. It's a brutal admonition against judging people's character by their species.

[Nimrod's Son]

So the metaphorical sense of the phrase is in direct opposition to its literal meaning. It's a brutal admonition against judging people's character by their species.
...And that's why Enor and Gannji have just breathed their last. If they survive this, then Tarquin gets a reprieve. I'm quite sure their entire purpose in this story was to make people like them despite their "otherness"... and then die tragically (and permanently).

[snikrept]

...And that's why Enor and Gannji have just breathed their last. If they survive this, then Tarquin gets a reprieve. I'm quite sure their entire purpose in this story was to make people like them despite their "otherness"... and then die tragically (and permanently).

If so it would mirror the arc involving Therkla and other such events in the strip (like the goblin getting chucked off the prison ramparts by the elves). If there's a single overarching theme in OOTS it's definitely about the difficulty of framing absolutes of "good" and "evil."

One might argue that their salvation and subsequent joining the OOTS would also serve this function though:smallbiggrin:

[Phishfood]

Gannji is assuming the use of Resurrection here--note that he only asks Enor to take the tip of his tail, whereas you'd need the entire body to perform a Raise Dead. Of course, that makes the plan even *less* likely to work, because it requires more diamonds and a higher-level cleric.

Personally I think Gannji knows they'll both die if they don't fight, and he's trying to save Enor's life at the cost of his own--he doesn't really have an expectation that he'll successfully get resurrected.

That and he probably thinks getting part of his tail out of the arena might be easier than trying to take the whole body. Enor doesn't get to go free after one fight.

[factotum]

...And that's why Enor and Gannji have just breathed their last. If they survive this, then Tarquin gets a reprieve.

Eh? I'm not following the logic--Tarquin has just tried to kill them both with the death of many crossbow bolts, and I fail to see how him doing that is somehow made all better if they don't actually die. Plus, even if your point were sound, BOTH of them don't have to die--just one of them would do; in fact, that would probably be better from a story point of view, because the survivor would end up with a real big grudge against Tarquin that could no doubt cause all sorts of high jinks further down the road.

[Knaight]

Hm. That's an interesting view (responding to Lord Bingo). I'm a father of two little girls myself, maybe my sympathy for Gannji stems from some kind of recognition of that relationship between Gannji and Enor.

... At least personally, the only people I'm reasonably certain that I would sacrifice myself for, even in the face of certain death, are my children.

You don't have any younger siblings do you? Or at least no younger siblings that aren't within a year or two. I interpreted this as far closer to a sibling relationship than a parent-child relationship, for a fair few reasons. Not the least of which being that Ganji has yet to attempt to resolve his failures by living through Enor's successes.

[allenw]

Is it possible that Gannij is *so * clever that he knew that Tarquin would order them executed, *and* that Enor will sacrifice himself to save Gannij, and the whole "kill me and save my tail" speech was just manipulation so that Enor dies and Gannij survives?
I'm mean, I *hope* not, but it's something I could see a schemer like Nale doing (no, I'm not saying that Gannij is secretly Nale :smalltongue:).

[SPoD]

Is it possible that Gannij is *so * clever that he knew that Tarquin would order them executed, *and* that Enor will sacrifice himself to save Gannij, and the whole "kill me and save my tail" speech was just manipulation so that Enor dies and Gannij survives?
I'm mean, I *hope* not, but it's something I could see a schemer like Nale doing (no, I'm not saying that Gannij is secretly Nale :smalltongue:).

No, simply because Enor is painfully easy to manipulate by far more blatant lies. This is the guy who believed the bit about Victory String. If Gannji wanted Enor to throw himself in front of the bolts, all he'd have to do is say something like, "Those bolts are made of Lizardfolk Kryptonite! They would kill me--but they'll bounce off your tough dragon hide!" And Enor would say OK and jump in front of him.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that if Gannji just asked Enor to jump in front of him and protect him, Enor would. So there's no need for that level of double bluffing.

[bladesyz]

You guys are way over-analyzing things. Gannji and Enor obviously has inspirations from both Star Wars and Princess Bride (more strongly the latter, IMO).

They haven't been all that developed either. I don't know why people keep saying they're evil, when they're obviously not. 783 is touching, but it's hardly a huge fleshing out of the characters.