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ooknabah
2011-03-24, 05:53 PM
Part of the appeal to new gaming books for me is checking out the new art- Particularly whenever a new Monster Manuel would come out and our DM would throw new creatures at us, eventually showing off the picture of the new creature we were now facing.

However, sometimes the art is BAD. Very very bad. Very "oh my god somebody got paid for this" bad. And those times are pretty funny.

My personal favorite is in the 3rd edition MM2, where you'll find "The Boggle". Silliest looking thing ever. It became an in joke in my group that whenever you saw something ugly you'd say "Well, it's no Boggle, but..."

How about you guys? Any favorites?

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I'm not talking about stupid concepts- We all know about the Flumph- just laughably bad art.

Ranos
2011-03-24, 05:55 PM
Nobilis 3E.
Yes, the whole book.

dsmiles
2011-03-24, 05:57 PM
Century Worm.:eek:

'Nuff Said. *shudder*

Ranos
2011-03-24, 06:01 PM
Century Worm.:eek:

'Nuff Said. *shudder*

Oh man, that's just wrong :smalleek:
This one has got to be intentional.

dsmiles
2011-03-24, 06:05 PM
See why I didn't link it or post the pic?

Comet
2011-03-24, 06:18 PM
Mage: the Awakening is a great game, hands down.

The art, though, is horribly uninspiring. I don't own a copy of the book and the art is the biggest reason why. A shame really, as the game itself is great as said.

Another one is Cyberpunk v3. Here, unlike in Mage, the game itself is pretty much bollocks and the art reflects that to a hilarious degree. Imagine Action Man dolls (or Ken dolls or G.I Joes or something) dressed in punk clothes and put into stiff poses with a dodgy colour filter over it all to make it look edgy. Yes, they used dolls to illustrate their cyberpunk. Yes, it sounds crazy enough to make one think that it could actually work to underline some transhumanist themes and such, but no, it really doesn't work at all. It just looks silly.

Boci
2011-03-24, 06:23 PM
Book of Erotic Fantasy. Nothing to do with the nature of the book, its just below average for the most part and bad in quite a few places.

Shademan
2011-03-24, 06:25 PM
Book of Erotic Fantasy. Nothing to do with the nature of the book, its just below average for the most part and bad in quite a few places.

horrible photo manipulation, yes.
should've hired an artist...

The Glyphstone
2011-03-24, 06:27 PM
Mialee. Across all books.

dsmiles
2011-03-24, 06:29 PM
Mialee. Across all books.Ah, yes. Mialee, the space frog.

Reynard
2011-03-24, 06:32 PM
White Wolf really needs to increase it's standards for hiring artists. Character designs change wildly, drunkenly, between different images (or even the same image), while many fail basic anatomy.

Giggling Ghast
2011-03-24, 06:37 PM
A lot of the early Magic art was kinda sucky. I remember looking at cards like Blood Lust and thinking "What the hell am I looking at?"

Jokasti
2011-03-24, 06:41 PM
White Wolf really needs to increase it's standards for hiring artists. Character designs change wildly, drunkenly, between different images (or even the same image), while many fail basic anatomy.

Most of that is stylistic, I think,
Or so the artists would claim.

Doc Roc
2011-03-24, 06:42 PM
Most of that is stylistic, I think,
Or so the artists would claim.

They would claim that because they are creatures birthed of the deep fires, sung to life by the void, and fed only cheetos.

DeltaEmil
2011-03-24, 06:44 PM
Most awful art regarding D&D comes from Dennis Crababble in my opinion. It's because of the thick black lines that the artist uses, I guess.

Reynard
2011-03-24, 06:52 PM
Most of that is stylistic, I think,
Or so the artists would claim.

http://www.img.ie/24434.png

Shademan
2011-03-24, 07:10 PM
Mialee. Across all books.

nah, s'just an accurate depiction of CHA as dump stat

Claudius Maximus
2011-03-24, 07:17 PM
Most awful art regarding D&D comes from Dennis Crababble in my opinion. It's because of the thick black lines that the artist uses, I guess.

Very much agreed, but I think the bigger problem is the gross little bumps he has to draw on everything.

I also dislike the guy who did a lot of the art for Libris Mortis. Everything looks so boxy and weird.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-24, 08:36 PM
Book of Erotic Fantasy. Nothing to do with the nature of the book, its just below average for the most part and bad in quite a few places.

This. There was some horrible things in there. Like if you told a teenager "photoshop this and make it sexy. And creepy. You have five minutes. Go."

Mialee has nothing on this book.

arguskos
2011-03-24, 08:38 PM
Mialee has nothing on this book.
That's only because she's not IN IT, thank god.

Imagine if the Space Frog was in BoEF. :smalleek:

Tyndmyr
2011-03-24, 08:42 PM
Why...why did you put that image in my head?

Eldariel
2011-03-24, 08:45 PM
nah, s'just an accurate depiction of CHA as dump stat

...and I'm an extraterrestrial half-starfish deity...

Shademan
2011-03-24, 09:02 PM
...and I'm an extraterrestrial half-starfish deity...

Im just sayin'. with the rather strange features of an elf and a low charisma score you cant really be surprised at the outcome
and I like it. it is nice to see that ugly adventurers can make it to the pages too

stainboy
2011-03-24, 09:07 PM
Century Worm.:eek:

'Nuff Said. *shudder*

As a 100-year-old giant annelid, I was afraid I'd never find romance. But eHarmony's database matched me with that thing from the back of Clanbook Tzimisce, and a year later we're engaged. Thanks eHarmony!

Ravens_cry
2011-03-24, 09:12 PM
First edition AD&D. There is exceptions, the Intellect Devourer especially impressed me, but golly, wow, there is some BAD art in there. Yes, I suppose it's nostalgic, the same way playing Kings Quest 1 is nostalgic, it's still bad art. I like the Space Frog, she's a nerd and proud of it.

hivedragon
2011-03-24, 09:14 PM
shifter art is generally bad, but this one looks like ml gibson with boobs
http://eberroncamp.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shifters.jpg

The Glyphstone
2011-03-24, 09:19 PM
Im just sayin'. with the rather strange features of an elf and a low charisma score you cant really be surprised at the outcome
and I like it. it is nice to see that ugly adventurers can make it to the pages too

except by all rights, Krusk should have a lower Charisma than her. Cha is also a dump stat for Barbarians, and he's got a racial penalty to boot...except in almost all his pics, he looks great. Or is a pimp, which is also great.

stainboy
2011-03-24, 09:19 PM
Hey, they gotta scare the furries off SOMEhow.

Eldariel
2011-03-24, 09:19 PM
Im just sayin'. with the rather strange features of an elf and a low charisma score you cant really be surprised at the outcome
and I like it. it is nice to see that ugly adventurers can make it to the pages too

...I don't think low Charisma can make you purple...

Shade Kerrin
2011-03-24, 09:25 PM
except by all rights, Krusk should have a lower Charisma than her. Cha is also a dump stat for Barbarians, and he's got a racial penalty to boot...except in almost all his pics, he looks great. Or is a pimp, which is also great.

Maybe Krusk's stats were chosen according to flavor rather than optimization....
Or maybe his primary focus was intimidation, preventing him from devaluing his Charisma.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-24, 09:30 PM
...I don't think low Charisma can make you purple...
Which art are you referring too? If you mean the one with the wand and the floating scroll (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG99_WEB.jpg) in the PHB, it is pretty obvious it is lighting effects that are creating that impression.

Eldariel
2011-03-24, 09:34 PM
Which art are you referring too? If you mean the one with the wand and the floating scroll (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG99_WEB.jpg) in the PHB, it is pretty obvious it is lighting effects that are creating that impression.

Her skin is purplish in just about every art of her ever. Does. Not. Compute.

The Glyphstone
2011-03-24, 09:36 PM
She's a Plum Elf subrace. Their skin is naturally purple.

Eldariel
2011-03-24, 09:37 PM
She's a Plum Elf subrace. Their skin is naturally purple.

I still subscribe to the Mutant Space Frog theory.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-24, 09:46 PM
Her skin is purplish in just about every art of her ever. Does. Not. Compute.
The scan of her picture in the PHB (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20030705a) for whatever reason is a bit purple, though the picture as a hole goes toward the blue end of the spectrum. However, if you actually look in the books, her skin tends toward an orange tone actually. The other scans show this same blueness.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-24, 09:48 PM
...I don't think low Charisma can make you purple...

Oh, if only more people were educated on the dangers of using Charisma as a dump stat. It's tragic really.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-24, 09:53 PM
Oh, if only more people were educated on the dangers of using Charisma as a dump stat. It's tragic really.
Krusk is even bluer (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG25_WEB.jpg). Poor Krusk, Krusk sad at alteration of skin pigmentation in Krusks epidermis. Krusk look like Krusk drink too much colloidal silver. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria)

Arbane
2011-03-24, 10:00 PM
The cover of the Exalted "Savant and Sorcerer" book. Honestly, what were the editors thinking?

(Just kidding. Everyone knows White Wolf doesn't actually HAVE editors.)

Zeofar
2011-03-25, 12:11 AM
Mialee has a Charisma score of 8, and is described as "Frail and graceful in appearance" (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20000626b) (And has higher Dexterity than Intelligence. This picture, by the way, shows her correct coloring). That of Krusk is 6. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/gs/20020217b) I guess Krusk's scarred-up face is supposed to count for something. He's probably rude, to boot.

By the way, don't image search Mialee. Arguskos and Tyndmyr don't know the half of it.

Augmented Lurk
2011-03-25, 04:24 AM
ARGH! CHARISMA IS NOT A MEASURE OF ATTRACTIVENESS!:smallfurious:

Yes, I'm aware that most of you are joking.

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 04:47 AM
ARGH! CHARISMA IS NOT A MEASURE OF ATTRACTIVENESS!:smallfurious:
You'd like to think that, wouldn't you. :smalltongue:

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-25, 05:05 AM
Y'know what'd be nice? Seeing the bad art, instead of just talking about it. :smalltongue:

Just saying, if we're going to gripe about bad RPG art, perhaps we should put our money where are mouths are... heck, I'd like it if, when posting said bad art, the poster would include instances of RPG art that does look good, give us a basis for comparison.

But that's just wishful thinking, now isn't it? :smalltongue:

Augmented Lurk
2011-03-25, 05:14 AM
You notice how it's the fifth thing mentioned in that sentence?

Yora
2011-03-25, 05:24 AM
For a thread about art, this one has a serious lack of images.

Most awful art regarding D&D comes from Dennis Crababble in my opinion. It's because of the thick black lines that the artist uses, I guess.

My all time favorite: The original Monster Manual:
http://the2ndhandstore.org/catalog/images/d&d/MonsterManual-1st.jpg
It's excused for coming from a time when it was probably impossible to find good fantasy artists for your small self-founded RPG. But it's still ugly. :smallbiggrin:

shifter art is generally bad, but this one looks like ml gibson with boobs
http://eberroncamp.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shifters.jpg
Here's an image that should work.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pgte_gallery/95051.jpg
Don't like the artist, though. Half of his female characters look like Angelina Jolie, and all of them look as if they had been stored in car exhausts for half a year.

Most awful art regarding D&D comes from Dennis Crababble in my opinion. It's because of the thick black lines that the artist uses, I guess.
I agree with that. Everything he draws is disgusting. Even when he does not try to be, for a change.

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 05:50 AM
You notice how it's the fifth thing mentioned in that sentence?Makes no difference. It's still a part of Charisma, according to WotC DnD (although an actual dictionary, and/or AD&D 1e, will both tell you different).

Yora
2011-03-25, 05:52 AM
But neither does high Cha bar you from being ungly, nor does low Cha have to make you ugly.

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 06:00 AM
But neither does high Cha bar you from being ungly, nor does low Cha have to make you ugly.I'm just pointing out that attractiveness is a part of WotC DnD's Charisma stat. That's the only point I'm getting at. It's a common misconception (in DnD, not in any real world sense of the word) that attractiveness is not a part of Charisma.

potatocubed
2011-03-25, 06:15 AM
My favourite Mialee picture is the one in the DMG captioned "At high levels Mialee becomes extremely powerful" ...but still can't find a decent hairdresser, it would seem.

FMArthur
2011-03-25, 06:49 AM
At high levels, a wizard will probably be very close to gaining omnipotence, and has been through enormous trials and has more to come. If anything she'd look more disheveled than normal.

Shademan
2011-03-25, 07:26 AM
except by all rights, Krusk should have a lower Charisma than her. Cha is also a dump stat for Barbarians, and he's got a racial penalty to boot...except in almost all his pics, he looks great. Or is a pimp, which is also great.

well then cha is obviously not his dump stat.
maybe his non-existing player is quite the RP'er and wanted a kinda pimpim' barbarian

Gorbash
2011-03-25, 07:42 AM
Darkwood Stalker, Dark Hunter...


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75404.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75403.jpg


And everything else that 'artist' drew.

Yora
2011-03-25, 07:45 AM
Well, it's not as fancy as some other recent stuff, but I think it's very bearable to look at.

Gorbash
2011-03-25, 07:48 AM
It's silly beyond question. Look at the size of that arrow tip! I've seen spears with smaller tips than that. I think the reason why anyone in my group never played those classes is because of that horrible artwork.

Eldariel
2011-03-25, 07:50 AM
The scan of her picture in the PHB (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20030705a) for whatever reason is a bit purple, though the picture as a hole goes toward the blue end of the spectrum. However, if you actually look in the books, her skin tends toward an orange tone actually. The other scans show this same blueness.

Frankly, it's extremely stupid regardless. Whatever it is, it's not the "pale skin" described in the Elves' description.

Spiryt
2011-03-25, 08:03 AM
Maybe I haven't seen enough Mialee pics, but I've never understood the fuse about her...

Skinny, somehow unhealthy looking elf chick with whitchy, sharp face.

Pretty ridiculously clothed, but again, everyone in PHB is, so I still can't see the point. :smalltongue:


Darkwood Stalker, Dark Hunter...

Yeah, those are pretty bad. Can't exactly pinpoint what's wrong, but they're neither pretty nor very informative.

Eldan
2011-03-25, 08:12 AM
Dunno. I liked Rebecca Guay's style ever since I saw her on magic cards. It's a nice change to the rest.

Knaight
2011-03-25, 08:19 AM
Maybe I haven't seen enough Mialee pics, but I've never understood the fuse about her...

Skinny, somehow unhealthy looking elf chick with whitchy, sharp face.

Pretty ridiculously clothed, but again, everyone in PHB is, so I still can't see the point. :smalltongue:

D&D, overall, has decent standards for art. Mialee fails them. That said, she is better than any female picture in Exalted, particularly that one.

Gnaeus
2011-03-25, 08:19 AM
White Wolf really needs to increase it's standards for hiring artists. Character designs change wildly, drunkenly, between different images (or even the same image), while many fail basic anatomy.

Yeah, my favorites were the ones where they would say (for example) "Mummies look just like normal humans", and to illustrate the point they would have a picture on the same page of a mummy looking like a hideous mutant. Having the artists read the supplement, not just "hey Fred, draw us some mummies!" (or whatevers) would have usually been good.

Yora
2011-03-25, 08:35 AM
Dunno. I liked Rebecca Guay's style ever since I saw her on magic cards. It's a nice change to the rest.
Those two are Guays? :smallconfused: In that case they are really not that good, most is much better than that.

Spiryt
2011-03-25, 09:03 AM
D&D, overall, has decent standards for art. Mialee fails them. That said, she is better than any female picture in Exalted, particularly that one.

So she fails some standard for art quality, or people don't like the sheer concept of her look?

Or both?

And it seems obvious that many, many different artist draw her, so it would be weird if they all had failed something.

Dsurion
2011-03-25, 09:19 AM
I'm gonna have to agree with the sentiment that some early Magic: the Gathering art was pretty awful, though some of it was awesome.

Eureka vs. Serra Angel
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=159300&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=202561&type=card
and

Shivan Dragon vs. Drew Tucker

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=228264&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=202426&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=201255&type=card

Yora
2011-03-25, 09:20 AM
The problem with her is, that in every single image over many years in lots of books, the artists somehow messed up when it came to drawing her face. It almost always seems somehow deformed to the point, that I suspect a running gag in the professional fantasy artist community.

Eldan
2011-03-25, 09:24 AM
Those two are Guays? :smallconfused: In that case they are really not that good, most is much better than that.

Fairly certain at least the second one is.



I'm gonna have to agree with the sentiment that some early Magic: the Gathering art was pretty awful, though some of it was awesome.

Eureka vs. Serra Angel
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=159300&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=202561&type=card
and

Shivan Dragon vs. Drew Tucker

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=228264&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=202426&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=201255&type=card

Wait. The Foglio's did MtG art? Huh.

Zombimode
2011-03-25, 09:27 AM
D&D, overall, has decent standards for art. Mialee fails them. That said, she is better than any female picture in Exalted, particularly that one.

You mean this one? (http://encefalus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/exalted_savant_sorcerer.jpg) :smalltongue:

As for Mialee, there ARE pictures of her where she looks more like a woman than a space frog.
Check this one. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97152.jpg)
Yeah, I still wouldnt date her or anything, but at least I recognize her as a female.

Yora
2011-03-25, 09:32 AM
Ahhh.... That one! :smallbiggrin:

MickJay
2011-03-25, 10:05 AM
Wait. The Foglio's did MtG art? Huh.

Quite a lot of it, in fact. At least the early editions.

Silus
2011-03-25, 10:23 AM
Quite a lot of it, in fact. At least the early editions.

Here's an example:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/SilusCrow/Imageashx.jpg

I kinda like it =3

And on a positive note, Wayne Reynolds art = so very pimp. IMO, the standard at which D&D/Fantasy RPG art should be held.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r50/Gorenza/Grazzt_and_Iggwilv_-_Wayne_Reynolds.jpg

Gorbash
2011-03-25, 10:40 AM
Fairly certain at least the second one is.




Wait. The Foglio's did MtG art? Huh.

Both are Guay and both are terrible.

And yes, Wayne Reynolds is the peak of fantasy art.

some guy
2011-03-25, 11:07 AM
Darkwood Stalker, Dark Hunter...

[snip]

And everything else that 'artist' drew.

Huh. Rebecca Guay is actually one of my favourite artists in the 3.5 line. I like the way she makes things look a bit more fairy tale-like and weird. Mind you, some of the things she has on her website I dislike for the same reason. But for D&D I like the way adventurers have a bit of "Yes, we are adventurers, but in a magical and weird world."

But to each his own, I guess.

EDIT: Any thread about awful RPG art would not be complete without a link to WTF, D&D!? (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/).

EDIT the Second:
I'm not sure why, but I really detest the picture for the Helm of Brilliance.
http://www.stargazersworld.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/DMG35_PG259_WEB.jpg

Yora
2011-03-25, 11:09 AM
I like Raynolds for his unique style. You always recognize him instantly and almost everything he does looks cool or badass.

But he does have a strong comic style, which is not always appropriate, so I wouldn't call him the best artist of all.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-25, 11:20 AM
I'm not a fan of Reynolds. He's got issues with perspective, a lot of his pictures are overly busy, and the clothing he draws tends to be pretty stupid even by fantasy clothing standards. For example, Malcanthet:
http://images.cryhavok.org/d/11127-1/Malcanthet+-+Wayne+Reynolds.jpg

Tyndmyr
2011-03-25, 11:23 AM
By the way, don't image search Mialee. Arguskos and Tyndmyr don't know the half of it.

I did. Safe search was off. I deeply regretted this.

Spiryt
2011-03-25, 11:27 AM
I'm not a fan of Reynolds. He's got issues with perspective, a lot of his pictures are overly busy, and the clothing he draws tends to be pretty stupid even by fantasy clothing standards. For example, Malcanthet:

Yeah, from all his pictures I've seen, almost every single one is too detailed and damn busy.

Pretty good example how with good technique, equipment and stuff, you can still draw pretty bad stuff.

You often have to guess what is what, with all details, and most of them are pretty silly too, so it's not really worth it either.:smallwink:

http://www.waynereynolds.com/Mini%20Pics/PlayersHandbook4e.jpg

Derjuin
2011-03-25, 11:32 AM
3.5 PHB Ranger and Paladin.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG43_WEB.jpg

LOOK AT THE ANGLE OF THAT LEG! And how skinny the boots are!

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG46_WEB.jpg

So stiff! And where the heck is he looking?! Plus, the hat, and the weird cotton-swab-tipped arrows.

Yora
2011-03-25, 11:34 AM
Well, I think it's the same artists who has responsibility for the original Mialee picture. :smallbiggrin:

Derjuin
2011-03-25, 11:35 AM
Well, I think it's the same artists who has responsibility for the original Mialee picture. :smallbiggrin:

I much prefer the Illusionist shown a page after Mialee, though I don't think he ever shows up in a book again :smallfrown:

Here he is:


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG57_WEB.jpg

Edit: Also, the Tome of Battle chapter scenes all look really, really stiff to me. I'll see if I can dredge up some examples.

Edit edit: Apparently Wizards doesn't have an art gallery for ToB, but I know the same artist did other books. Lemme check around...

3x Edit combo: Apparently it's Wayne England, which sort of surprises me because, last I checked, he has some decent Magic: the Gathering art.

Spiryt
2011-03-25, 11:37 AM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG46_WEB.jpg

So stiff! And where the heck is he looking?! Plus, the hat, and the weird cotton-swab-tipped arrows.


Always wondered, why is he carrying giant cotton buds on his back?

Assumed that those are supposed to be torches or whatever, but again, he's an elf, so maybe....

DeltaEmil
2011-03-25, 01:20 PM
One problem that Wayne Reynolds has is that the faces of all his drawn female characters look like a "rat-face".

Also, I don't like how he draws legs or feet. They just seem flat. Aside from that, he's surely one of the better artists for D&D.

PersonMan
2011-03-25, 01:35 PM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moi_gallery/91057.jpg

It's fairly small, but I couldn't find a better picture.

The woman's posture is...I don't know, it looks completely unnatural to me. Like she's posing in a very odd fashion for someone. The guy has a bit of the same problem.

stainboy
2011-03-25, 02:03 PM
The woman's posture is...

...like one of those miniature poseable mannikins that character artists keep on their desks.

And I still like her better than Captain Soul Patch on the right.

Fawsto
2011-03-25, 02:15 PM
... And then I thought "What could be so bad about searching 'Mialee' without safetty turned on?" :smallcool:

Crap. What has been seen cannot be unseen... I will take months to erase all traces of it from my mind, and I will be unable to play arcane casters for a while too... :smalleek:

For your own safety, do not make the same mistake I did. :smallsigh:

Tyndmyr
2011-03-25, 02:25 PM
... And then I thought "What could be so bad about searching 'Mialee' without safetty turned on?" :smallcool:

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Rule 34 is a horrible thing.

The Tygre
2011-03-25, 02:28 PM
Kids, I saw Ted the Mindflayer. You don't even get to talk to me about eye-scarring Mialee artwork until you can say the same. So, because I can't learn a lesson apparently...

http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4382996/Challenge-Accepted.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Challenge-Accepted-HD-1

Spiryt
2011-03-25, 02:31 PM
I'm searching for "Mialee" without any safety, and nothing particularly disturbing comes up.

A lot of people named "Mia Lee" apparently.

I guess my polish google is not so depraved. :smallwink:

Tyndmyr
2011-03-25, 02:35 PM
Search for Mialee D&D.

Or rather, don't. Don't do that at all. San is hard to recover.

Erom
2011-03-25, 02:38 PM
Eh, I just ran the search. Just your typical fan-drawn fantasy porn. As far as it goes, it's actually quite tame, and the artist is at least passable. Nothing really notable there.

Also, like 2 porn images out of an entire google image search? That's not dirty, really, that's remarkably clean.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-25, 02:39 PM
So she fails some standard for art quality, or people don't like the sheer concept of her look?

Or both?

And it seems obvious that many, many different artist draw her, so it would be weird if they all had failed something.
Some of it is just bad, but I like her odd look. She's an elf, not a human with pointy ears. Moreover, she is a wizard, a nerd elf.

Spiryt
2011-03-25, 02:40 PM
I'm searching, and even with search that asks for trouble (Mialee fanart) all options "any" and no filtering, still nothing disturbing, and only one or two 18+ stuff...

I guess my Internet is puritan.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-25, 02:55 PM
That's probably for the best, dear. What is seen, can not be unseen. Serious waste of talent, it's a fairly well done picture on the whole from a purely technical standpoint.

Friv
2011-03-25, 03:05 PM
As far as terrible artwork goes, have any of you see the Big Damned Heroes handbook for Serenity?

*shudders* I'll post an example or two later tonight when I'm at home with my books.

ffone
2011-03-25, 03:17 PM
And on a positive note, Wayne Reynolds art = so very pimp. IMO, the standard at which D&D/Fantasy RPG art should be held.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r50/Gorenza/Grazzt_and_Iggwilv_-_Wayne_Reynolds.jpg

In that pic, Graz'zt literally appears to be pimping. WhichI suppose is very Graz'zt.

Lord.Sorasen
2011-03-25, 03:18 PM
Frostburn is a book mostly of awesome dinosaurs and mammoths and megaloceros riders and giant sticks and such. All these are drawn to be really awesome. However, there's this one race in there...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83537.jpghttp://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Frostburn/Uldra%20by%20David%20Griffith.jpg

The uldra are... I guess it's ok on their own, but compared to everything else in that book there's this almost comical simplicity. It's nice in a way, but because they are never drawn otherwise I could never imagine an uldra in a D&D party at all.

EDIT: Also the way every drawing of them wears the most bizarre looking armor. I guess most classes do that.. But hell, the PHB paladin doesn't seem to.

The_Jackal
2011-03-25, 03:43 PM
Nobilis 3E.
Yes, the whole book.

OMG, yes. I got a look at the PDF for this game, and wow, I never though I'd refuse to buy a game because of bad art. Learn something new every day.

Yora
2011-03-25, 04:44 PM
In that pic, Graz'zt literally appears to be pimping. WhichI suppose is very Graz'zt.
Nah, the two are the most terrible love/hate relationship in the multiverse.
They even have a son. :smalleek:

Though that brat doesn't have the ridicoulously good looks of either of his parents.

I'm searching, and even with search that asks for trouble (Mialee fanart) all options "any" and no filtering, still nothing disturbing, and only one or two 18+ stuff...

I guess my Internet is puritan.
I saw them too. Pass the brain bleach, bro.

Eldan
2011-03-25, 05:04 PM
Both are Guay and both are terrible.

And yes, Wayne Reynolds is the peak of fantasy art.

Really? Reynolds doesn't do much for me, really. I mean, it's well made, sure, but just doesn't seem very inspiring. A bit emotionless, to me, very often, and a tad generic.

Also, he has, like, two possible facial expressions in his art.

Much prefer Di'Terlizzi. Or Guay, in most of her art.

Tiki Snakes
2011-03-25, 05:07 PM
Heh. I'm quietly amused that there are still people online who can be scarred by the kind of material thrown up by searching for 'Mialee' with safesearch off. Bless your cotton socks, folks.

Oh, and though I could find an explanation or two of what Ted the Mindflayer was, couldn't find any of the referenced pictures.

Also in what sense are the uldra not just blue elves?

Yora
2011-03-25, 05:15 PM
Much prefer Di'Terlizzi. Or Guay, in most of her art.
At first I hated the Planescape art. But after some time, you realize that in this one case, the primary, and I think only, artist who illustrated the books shaped the setting as much as any of the writers, if not more.
His artworks are Planescape, and you can't have Planescape without it. It's like the John Williams Musik for Star Wars and Indiana Jones, it's an integral and crucial part of the whole.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-25, 05:16 PM
Do not mock us, you have not seen what we have seen.:smalleek:

Tiki Snakes
2011-03-25, 05:21 PM
Do not mock us, you have not seen what we have seen.:smalleek:

Are you sure?:smallsmile:

Yora
2011-03-25, 05:26 PM
The problem are not so much the pictures: But Mialee Rule 34?
How...? Who...? WHY?! :smalleek:

Ravens_cry
2011-03-25, 05:37 PM
The problem are not so much the pictures: But Mialee Rule 34?
How...? Who...? WHY?! :smalleek:
Did you ever play Day of the Tenticle by LucasArts? There is Rule #34 for Lavern.
The Rule does not lie, the Rule is Truth.
" If it Exists, it Exists."
And so are we Damned.

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 05:48 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with the sentiment that some early Magic: the Gathering art was pretty awful, though some of it was awesome.

Shivan Dragon vs. Drew Tucker

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=228264&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=202426&type=card
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=201255&type=card
Man that dragon is lame. I've always loved Tucker's art.

Really? Reynolds doesn't do much for me, really. I mean, it's well made, sure, but just doesn't seem very inspiring. A bit emotionless, to me, very often, and a tad generic.

Also, he has, like, two possible facial expressions in his art.

Much prefer Di'Terlizzi.
Almost as much as TD's art, that is.

Who else is awesome? Larry Elmore, that's who.

Yora
2011-03-25, 06:14 PM
Elmore has to take full responsibility for the horror of female armor that haunts us to this day. Frazetta was worse, but he never tried to hide the fact this his paintings where on the other side of semi-pornographic.
But Elmore tried to sell us chainmail bikinis as genuine armor. It's unforgiveable! :smallmad:

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 06:59 PM
Elmore has to take full responsibility for the horror of female armor that haunts us to this day. Frazetta was worse, but he never tried to hide the fact this his paintings where on the other side of semi-pornographic.
But Elmore tried to sell us chainmail bikinis as genuine armor. It's unforgiveable! :smallmad:I LOVE me some chainmail bikinis! I'm a huge fan of classic pulp action sword & sorcery novels, and that's really where they come from. Try finding a clothed woman in Howard's Conan stories (1930ish) or Wagner's Kane novels (1975ish). Since he was born in '48, Elmore was probably brought up on Howard's sword & sorcery, since it was either that, Tolkein (1937), or Lewis (1950ish) in that day and age. Can't blame a guy for painting a subject he knows.

Honestly, I find nothing aesthetically wrong with chainmail bikinis. Not everybody feels the same way, and that's ok.

(Also see the work he did for the Dragonlance novels. Only one chainmail bikini in sight, and that's more of a crop-top at that. :smallamused:)

DeltaEmil
2011-03-25, 07:06 PM
No women were chainmail armor (or any armor) in the Conan stories because they were the typical damsel in distress, except for Valeria, who was a pirate-mercenary wearing no stupid things like chainmail bikinis or anything similar idiotic (and she was one of the few people noted to have an approximately 50% chance to kill Conan if he had tried to assault and rape her - yep, that's right, he lusted for her that much that he was willing to ride after her for a long time - fortunately, they get interrupted by a dinosaur-dragon-thingy before they have to fight it out).

tonberrian
2011-03-25, 07:29 PM
I despise almost every piece of artwork by Wayne England that I've seen in 3.5. His poses are incredibly stiff, almost every single piece has them straight on, and those textures ... :smallannoyed:

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 07:42 PM
No women were chainmail armor (or any armor) in the Conan stories because they were the typical damsel in distress, except for Valeria, who was a pirate-mercenary wearing no stupid things like chainmail bikinis or anything similar idiotic (and she was one of the few people noted to have an approximately 50% chance to kill Conan if he had tried to assault and rape her - yep, that's right, he lusted for her that much that he was willing to ride after her for a long time - fortunately, they get interrupted by a dinosaur-dragon-thingy before they have to fight it out).
According to the description, Valeria:

She was tall, full-bosomed, and large-limbed, with compact shoulders. Her whole figure reflected an unusual strength, without detracting from the femininity of her appearance. She was all woman, in spite of her bearing and her garments. The latter were incongruous, in view of her present environs. Instead of a skirt she wore short, wide-legged silk breeches, which ceased a hand's breadth short of her knees, and were upheld by a wide silken sash worn as a girdle. Flaring-topped boots of soft leather came almost to her knees, and a low-necked, wide-collared, wide-sleeved silk shirt completed her costume. On one shapely hip she wore a straight double-edged sword, and on the other a long dirk. Her unruly golden hair, cut square at her shoulders, was confined by a band of crimson satin.
Granted, no chainmail bikini, but no armor at all. On the other hand, Belit (also a pirate):

She turned toward Conan, her bosom heaving, her eyes flashing. Fierce fingers of wonder caught at his heart. She was slender, yet formed like a goddess: at once lithe and voluptuous. Her only garment was a broad silken girdle. Her white ivory limbs and the ivory globes of her breasts drove a beat of fierce passion through the Cimmerian's pulse, even in the panting fury of battle. Her rich black hair, black as a Stygian night, fell in rippling burnished clusters down her supple back. Her dark eyes burned on the Cimmerian.
Wore nothing except a belt! She was definitely not a damsel in distress.

I don't personally see the problem with liking chainmail bikinis. It's a choice that everyone gets to make. I dislike twiggy, effeminate anime heroes. A lot of people here on the forums like them. I don't go around telling people they shouldn't like them the way some people go around saying people shouldn't like chainmail bikinis. (Not referring to you or Yora on that, but I have seen it in other threads.) It's merely an aesthetic choice, since there are no mechanical bonuses or penalties for stylistic choices in armor design in DnD.

People like what they like. It's the way of life.

Shademan
2011-03-25, 08:07 PM
Frostburn is a book mostly of awesome dinosaurs and mammoths and megaloceros riders and giant sticks and such. All these are drawn to be really awesome. However, there's this one race in there...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83537.jpghttp://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Frostburn/Uldra%20by%20David%20Griffith.jpg

The uldra are... I guess it's ok on their own, but compared to everything else in that book there's this almost comical simplicity. It's nice in a way, but because they are never drawn otherwise I could never imagine an uldra in a D&D party at all.

EDIT: Also the way every drawing of them wears the most bizarre looking armor. I guess most classes do that.. But hell, the PHB paladin doesn't seem to.

never understood the point of Uldras. snow-elfgnomes. yes yes, very droll.

averagejoe
2011-03-25, 08:08 PM
I also have to say that I like most of the stuff Guay does. She's far more expressive than most fantasy artists, even if her style's a little weird, and I've seen some absolutely phenomenal work from her.

But that's not what the thread's about!

Try this one:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75437.jpg

Can you tell what's going on with Krusk's legs? I can't. Or how about that drow with his left leg way longer than his right? That's without even getting into the bland colors or the stiff, awkward, unnatural poses.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97158.jpg

Ember's freaking jump kicking a gnoll and it looks like she's frozen in the air while the gnoll's grimacing at the ceiling for some reason.

DeltaEmil
2011-03-25, 08:54 PM
According to the description, Valeria:

Granted, no chainmail bikini, but no armor at all. On the other hand, Belit (also a pirate):

Wore nothing except a belt! She was definitely not a damsel in distress.

I don't personally see the problem with liking chainmail bikinis. It's a choice that everyone gets to make. I dislike twiggy, effeminate anime heroes. A lot of people here on the forums like them. I don't go around telling people they shouldn't like them the way some people go around saying people shouldn't like chainmail bikinis. (Not referring to you or Yora on that, but I have seen it in other threads.) It's merely an aesthetic choice, since there are no mechanical bonuses or penalties for stylistic choices in armor design in DnD.

People like what they like. It's the way of life.I didn't say that Valeria wore any armor (also, seafarers tend not to wear much armor anyway). Just that she fortunately didn't wear chainmail bikini trash or something like that (which is good). And Belit sucked as a fighter. In fact, she couldn't even fight at all. All she had was a bunch of pirates who fight and die for her and her gazongas with which to mesmerize Conan (after he butchered like probably more than half of her crew - only the hypnotic powers of breasts could save her and her mangy marauders, hah). The piarates were of course totally worthless in melee against Conan, who was wearing a scale mail and deflected almost all hits with it. Hah. Sensible armor wins once again.

dsmiles
2011-03-25, 08:59 PM
Sensible armor wins once again.
I don't really see that as a win, as it could just as easily have been a scale mail thong as far as DnD mechanics are concerned. :smalltongue:

Knaight
2011-03-26, 02:07 AM
I also have to say that I like most of the stuff Guay does. She's far more expressive than most fantasy artists, even if her style's a little weird, and I've seen some absolutely phenomenal work from her.

But that's not what the thread's about!

Try this one:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75437.jpg

Can you tell what's going on with Krusk's legs? I can't. Or how about that drow with his left leg way longer than his right? That's without even getting into the bland colors or the stiff, awkward, unnatural poses.

Sure. His hips are merely about a foot off of where they should be, and he has some absurd squat pose. Moreover that axe head is grinding on my nerves, it looks like it weighs about sixty pounds - which is funny, as it has absolutely no business weighing more than one.

grimbold
2011-03-26, 03:49 AM
Frostburn is a book mostly of awesome dinosaurs and mammoths and megaloceros riders and giant sticks and such. All these are drawn to be really awesome. However, there's this one race in there...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fb_gallery/83537.jpghttp://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Frostburn/Uldra%20by%20David%20Griffith.jpg

The uldra are... I guess it's ok on their own, but compared to everything else in that book there's this almost comical simplicity. It's nice in a way, but because they are never drawn otherwise I could never imagine an uldra in a D&D party at all.

EDIT: Also the way every drawing of them wears the most bizarre looking armor. I guess most classes do that.. But hell, the PHB paladin doesn't seem to.

for me that hearkens back to the days of the art in 1E and BECMI

Asheram
2011-03-26, 04:17 AM
Some of the Shadowrun 4 20'th anniversary rulebook is downright awful.
Some of those are cartoonish to the extreme and breaks the theme of the book over its knee.

Yora
2011-03-26, 04:17 AM
I LOVE me some chainmail bikinis! I'm a huge fan of classic pulp action sword & sorcery novels, and that's really where they come from.
You are a bad person. Go stand in a corner and be ashamed.

:smallwink:

Spiryt
2011-03-26, 05:33 AM
I don't really see that as a win, as it could just as easily have been a scale mail thong as far as DnD mechanics are concerned. :smalltongue:

Fortunately, Conan wasn't following D&D mechanics though.... :smallwink:

And it's scale armor :smalltongue:


Moreover that axe head is grinding on my nerves, it looks like it weighs about sixty pounds - which is funny, as it has absolutely no business weighing more than one.

I cannot really tell the weight of the stuff from such picture, if something's unnerving about that axe, it's how the hell it's stuck in the middle of the handle somehow... :smallwink:

AslanCross
2011-03-26, 06:00 AM
Darkwood Stalker, Dark Hunter...


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75404.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75403.jpg


And everything else that 'artist' drew.

Rebecca Guay is a pretty good artist when drawing faerie goddesses and elves. She also did an entire comic book for Magic:The Gathering once and it was pretty awesome. She's not at her best here, that's for sure, but it's far from awful.



My favourite Mialee picture is the one in the DMG captioned "At high levels Mialee becomes extremely powerful" ...but still can't find a decent hairdresser, it would seem.

And to think all she needs is a cantrip. :P



I also have to say that I like most of the stuff Guay does. She's far more expressive than most fantasy artists, even if her style's a little weird, and I've seen some absolutely phenomenal work from her.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75437.jpg

Can you tell what's going on with Krusk's legs? I can't. Or how about that drow with his left leg way longer than his right? That's without even getting into the bland colors or the stiff, awkward, unnatural poses.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97158.jpg

Ember's freaking jump kicking a gnoll and it looks like she's frozen in the air while the gnoll's grimacing at the ceiling for some reason.

Ugh, the second one is one of the more ridiculous ones I've seen. It's supposed to be an action shot but due to the awkward poses it just looks so lame.

Now as for Wayne Reynolds---some like his style, some don't. I personally love his style (and I LIKE the textures). Another Wayne, however, is almost universally hated:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm4_gallery/98695.jpg

Wayne England. He just loves drawing a full front view of his figures, leading to an almost xeroxed face. (Note the 3/4 profile lizardfolk guy in the BG, which looks much better).
I actually like some of his pieces, but when he draws warriors?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75624.jpg
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/chk/156.jpg

There's an attempt at detail, but it seems all so stiff. And the way the swords are drawn in the Battle-Mad Ronin's art! They don't look like daisho at all!

dsmiles
2011-03-26, 06:12 AM
You are a bad person. Go stand in a corner and be ashamed.

:smallwink:
I even have the Chainmail Bikini rulebook. :smalltongue:

EDIT: And speaking of bad art...Chaimail Bikini has some of the worst.

Kris Strife
2011-03-26, 06:14 AM
Not only that, but Ember looks so bored as she's kicking that gnoll in the back.

AslanCross
2011-03-26, 06:30 AM
Here's another artist whose work I often dislike: Franz Vohwinkel. There are a couple of pieces of his that I actually do like, but most of the time they seem to have a strange cartoony quality to them that makes it difficult to take the art seriously:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85433.jpg
http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Races_Stone/Maester%20by%20Franz%20Vohwinkel.jpg

Not to mention the very stiff poses:

http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Complete_Divine/Consecrated%20Hunter%20by%20Franz%20Vohwinkel.jpg

Asheram
2011-03-26, 07:06 AM
Here's another artist whose work I often dislike: Franz Vohwinkel. There are a couple of pieces of his that I actually do like, but most of the time they seem to have a strange cartoony quality to them that makes it difficult to take the art seriously:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85433.jpg
http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Races_Stone/Maester%20by%20Franz%20Vohwinkel.jpg

Not to mention the very stiff poses:

http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Complete_Divine/Consecrated%20Hunter%20by%20Franz%20Vohwinkel.jpg

I'm actually somewhat fond of that first picture, but I agree with that they're Very stiff and unnatural.

Zombimode
2011-03-26, 07:10 AM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75437.jpg


Thats only bad because you think he's an half orc. But obviously he is a Fachan (http://pandius.com/fachan.jpg) :smalltongue:
Couldnt find the D&D art sadly where the Fachan looks more like a one armed, one legged and one eyed orc...

Yora
2011-03-26, 07:17 AM
Not only that, but Ember looks so bored as she's kicking that gnoll in the back.
Has nobody noticed Krusks face? that's the worst part of the whole image.

Kris Strife
2011-03-26, 07:21 AM
Has nobody noticed Krusks face? that's the worst part of the whole image.

He's supposed to be ugly and he is a barbarian, so the angry look isn't that surprising.

stainboy
2011-03-26, 08:42 AM
Here's another artist whose work I often dislike: Franz Vohwinkel. There are a couple of pieces of his that I actually do like, but most of the time they seem to have a strange cartoony quality to them that makes it difficult to take the art seriously:


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ca_gallery/85433.jpg
http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Races_Stone/Maester%20by%20Franz%20Vohwinkel.jpg


Allow me to disagree. He manages to make gnomes look non-ridiculous even when one of them is standing next to the Apparatus of Kwalish. (Well, they do look ridiculous, but in a good way.)

AslanCross
2011-03-26, 09:00 AM
Allow me to disagree. He manages to make gnomes look non-ridiculous even when one of them is standing next to the Apparatus of Kwalish. (Well, they do look ridiculous, but in a good way.)

Feel free; I'm ok with people thinking Wayne Reynolds is awful.

I do agree with those who posted above that Dennis Crabapple seems to have a tendency to make everything look utterly revolting.

Here's another I think all of us will agree shouldn't be in an RPG book from this age.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_8.jpg

stainboy
2011-03-26, 09:01 AM
Professional coloring job on top of a sketch from a high school notebook?

Eldan
2011-03-26, 09:03 AM
Well, I couldn't make a sketch like that. :smalltongue:

tonberrian
2011-03-26, 09:08 AM
Well, I couldn't make a sketch like that. :smalltongue:

Standards too high? :smallwink:

Eldan
2011-03-26, 09:18 AM
Awful artist. I'm pretty much limited to stick figures. Everything else ends up in "Is that a human or a horse?" territory.

Anyway. I just remembered this (note the facial expression):

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3519/coverkf.jpg

LOTRfan
2011-03-26, 09:34 AM
Is it just me, or does the structure in the lower right-hand corner have a face? :smalleek:

Yora
2011-03-26, 09:47 AM
Given it's Planescape, it's probably alive as well.

But Her Serenity doesn't look very serene this day.

Why did nobody make a new official edition of planescape books? Planar Handbook doesn't do it justice at all.
This setting is just damn good. Damn, damn, good, good, damn, good, damn, damn. Good.

Spiryt
2011-03-26, 09:47 AM
It's Sigil, so why not?

Also is it supposed to be bad art?

Looks pretty nice to me, and in touch with Sigil feel.

Eldan
2011-03-26, 09:48 AM
I like the piece, in general. It's just that Her Serenity's face just bugs me. The picture is a bit small, though it's the biggest one I could find. If her face was more visible...

ooknabah
2011-03-26, 10:55 AM
Here's another I think all of us will agree shouldn't be in an RPG book from this age.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_8.jpg

... That was my initial example.

"Well, it's no Boggle... Wait, um... er..."

averagejoe
2011-03-26, 11:36 AM
http://132.209.40.23/w4/campagne/images/WotC_Art_Galleries/Complete_Divine/Consecrated%20Hunter%20by%20Franz%20Vohwinkel.jpg

She is clenching that bow so hard!

stainboy
2011-03-26, 12:41 PM
She is clenching that bow so hard!

She? That elf has an Adam's apple.

I didn't notice the tits until you pointed it out. Maybe the artist drew the character as a man, and then found out right before the deadline that the editors wanted a woman?

Spiryt
2011-03-26, 12:50 PM
She? That elf has an Adam's apple.

I didn't notice the tits until you pointed it out. Maybe the artist drew the character as a man, and then found out right before the deadline that the editors wanted a woman?

Yeah, everything looks pretty manly, but then you obviously notice mail surface being raised by the standard issue Rock Hard Boobies....

Your theory sounds quite convincing. :smallbiggrin:

WhiteHarness
2011-03-26, 01:05 PM
I hate anything by Lars Grant-West, especially the armour art in the 3.5 PHB. Blecch!

Yora
2011-03-26, 01:06 PM
He makes some questionable design choices, but his artistic skill seems quite good to me.

averagejoe
2011-03-26, 01:08 PM
Actually I think he's a halfling. Note the footprints next to him.

Still not sure about the gender thing, though.

Yora
2011-03-26, 01:11 PM
Those are breasts. You can't deny it.
Also I think it's a gnome, which explains the manly nose.

Spiryt
2011-03-26, 01:11 PM
Actually I think he's a halfling. Note the footprints next to him.

Still not sure about the gender thing, though.

For all what it's worth, it can be easily the other way around - footprints can be of something that's actually way larger than human.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-26, 01:51 PM
Strangely, even though I can't draw at all, this thread convinced me to take up art. :smallconfused: :smallsmile:

Jay R
2011-03-26, 03:21 PM
Original (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/steve-old-gygax.php?page=10) Dungeons (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9OAJUKUGhA/R6XWWSl4jEI/AAAAAAAAAAM/7RTt0a6_poY/s1600-h/elf.jpg) and (http://www.supermegamonkey.net/2010/03/original_dd_drawings.shtml) Dragons (http://boingboing.net/2010/03/11/original-dd-art-from.html), and nothing else comes close.

Tekren
2011-03-26, 03:24 PM
Late to the party, but Whatev.

Charisma is hilarious. We once had a ranger who had a charisma of 8, and he was the prettiest person in the party.
We had a sorcerer.
The ranger was still the prettiest. We eventually developed the habit of gagging him in town.

I recall the original art for the Spinal Tap card in M:TG looked like a guy... well. It was actually a weird looking monster, but it took a while to see that it was a monster.

Eldan
2011-03-26, 03:28 PM
Original (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/steve-old-gygax.php?page=10) Dungeons (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9OAJUKUGhA/R6XWWSl4jEI/AAAAAAAAAAM/7RTt0a6_poY/s1600-h/elf.jpg) and (http://www.supermegamonkey.net/2010/03/original_dd_drawings.shtml) Dragons (http://boingboing.net/2010/03/11/original-dd-art-from.html), and nothing else comes close.

And you know what? I'd still rate that as a bit better than what I could draw. But it's closer, now.

Spiryt
2011-03-26, 03:36 PM
Original (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/steve-old-gygax.php?page=10) Dungeons (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9OAJUKUGhA/R6XWWSl4jEI/AAAAAAAAAAM/7RTt0a6_poY/s1600-h/elf.jpg) and (http://www.supermegamonkey.net/2010/03/original_dd_drawings.shtml) Dragons (http://boingboing.net/2010/03/11/original-dd-art-from.html), and nothing else comes close.

Lol, that's actually pretty bad. No discussion.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-26, 04:08 PM
Some of the stuff in 1st edition AD&D was worse in my opinion, especially the dinosaurs.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-26, 04:23 PM
Original (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/steve-old-gygax.php?page=10) Dungeons (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y9OAJUKUGhA/R6XWWSl4jEI/AAAAAAAAAAM/7RTt0a6_poY/s1600-h/elf.jpg) and (http://www.supermegamonkey.net/2010/03/original_dd_drawings.shtml) Dragons (http://boingboing.net/2010/03/11/original-dd-art-from.html), and nothing else comes close.

The giant was pretty bad, but the rest was fine for a no-budget, practically armature RPG with a very marginal audience.
You people seem to be pretty picky. Most of that art was totally okay (some was even quite good), but you appear to be looking for reasons to criticize it.

Lord Thurlvin
2011-03-26, 05:10 PM
The giant was pretty bad, but the rest was fine for a no-budget, practically armature RPG with a very marginal audience.
You people seem to be pretty picky. Most of that art was totally okay (some was even quite good), but you appear to be looking for reasons to criticize it.

I wouldn't call any of that "good," but the fact that it's from such an early time in D&D's history exonerates it, I think.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-26, 05:12 PM
I wouldn't call any of that "good," but the fact that it's from such an early time in D&D's history exonerates it, I think.

The second paragraph was referring to the thread in general.

averagejoe
2011-03-26, 05:45 PM
Those are breasts. You can't deny it.

Men can have breasts. :smallamused:


For all what it's worth, it can be easily the other way around - footprints can be of something that's actually way larger than human.

Could be, but it's somewhat typical to put references in gnome/halfling drawings just to show how small they are. Plus he has dreads, as a lot of 3.5 halflings seem to. Not conclusive, I know, but it makes me strongly suspect halfling.

Eldan
2011-03-26, 05:50 PM
Or he could be in drag.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-26, 06:02 PM
I know it's fun to make up reasons to criticize sub-optimal art, but do the artists really deserve it? :smallannoyed:

Ravens_cry
2011-03-26, 06:07 PM
I know it's fun to make up reasons to criticize sub-optimal art, but do the artists really deserve it? :smallannoyed:
Well, there is such a thing as Constructive Criticism. Even if the orignal artists never hear it, analysis of the things wrong can help other budding artists improve their own work by knowing what not to do.

GolemsVoice
2011-03-26, 06:13 PM
For me, the most bad art, or rather, dissapointing art, comes with the WoD books, especially the Vampire: The Masquerade series (NWoD is quite stylish, as far as I know)

In many of teh "images", you're lucky if you can even make out what is happening, or IF something is happening at all. Bonus points if the art has nothing to do with whatever the pages around it are actually about. As said, this may be because you don't even really realize what the image is supposed to be about, or if there is something in the image that anything can be about.

On the other hand, they do manage some really stunning pieces.


Regarding D&D, and Warhammer: I hate Wayne England. Seriously.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-26, 06:17 PM
Regarding D&D, and Warhammer: I hate Wayne England. Seriously.
Why? He's not bad at all. He can't do humanoid proportions, but has nice color scene and draws good monsters.

GolemsVoice
2011-03-26, 06:27 PM
I just don't like his style. He's got a very recognizable style, and EVERYTHING he draws always looks so specifically Englandish. It's a matter of personal preferance, as with most artists, I guess.


EDIT: Actually, now that I look at some of his works that I've never seen before (I mostly remember him from his works in the earlier editions of both versions of Warhammer) he seems to have improved somewhat. His style seems less rigid, less angular, smoother. Maybe I like this more because I generally prefer "realisitc" styles to more "unrealistic" ones.


http://animewallpapers.lt/albums/FEDOROS_RULES/FANTASYART/FANTASY-ART-BY-ARTIST-NAME/ADRIAN-SMITH/normal_wayne_england_warhammer_001.jpg

Here's an example of the style I dislike.

Lord Thurlvin
2011-03-26, 06:37 PM
Why? He's not bad at all. He can't do humanoid proportions, but has nice color scene and draws good monsters.

Whether or not an artist's style is bad is subjective. Personally, I consider an inability to do correct humanoid proportions an artistic weakness.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-26, 06:38 PM
Whether or not an artist's style is bad is subjective. Personally, I consider an inability to do correct humanoid proportions an artistic weakness.

Everyone has artistic weaknesses. I challenge you to find one artist with no major weaknesses.

Lord Thurlvin
2011-03-26, 06:40 PM
Everyone has artistic weaknesses. I challenge you to find one artist with no major weaknesses.

A weakness is a reason to criticize a work, isn't it?

Derjuin
2011-03-26, 06:54 PM
Some of Wayne England's art can be pretty good, but most of it seems to have a certain quality to it that makes it seem ...off :smallconfused: I guess "Englandish" is a good term for it :smalltongue:

I wish I could find better examples, but compare these two: the aforementioned Battle-Mad Ronin:


http://magiccards.info/scans/en/chk/156.jpg


to Golgari Rotwurm:


http://store.timezonegaming.com/images/Ravnica/210.jpg


The Wurm looks a lot better than the Ronin to me, in the sense that the ronin feels flat, boxy and generally stiff, whereas the wurm doesn't strike that same chord in me.

averagejoe
2011-03-26, 07:11 PM
I know it's fun to make up reasons to criticize sub-optimal art, but do the artists really deserve it? :smallannoyed:

In the case of, say, not seeing any way a character's legs could possibly attach to them given human anatomy, I'd say yes. There's no excuse for something like that. However, an artist having a disagreeable style doesn't make them bad. For example, I don't tend to care a lot for Ron Spencer (though I have seen a few of his that are pretty great, he tends to be very hit or miss for me, with most of them in the latter), but I would never call him a bad artist. He has his quirks, and I tend to think they look bad, but that's cool. Art would be a lot more boring if stuff like that didn't happen.

tonberrian
2011-03-26, 07:22 PM
I dunno about the rotwurm. The teeth look too long and close together for the jaw to close right, and that bothers me. There's also the fact that it comes straight down. It's especially jarring because I can see the same thing in like three other pictures of his that come to mind. And something about his textures just rub me the wrong way. They feel all flat and dull.

Edit: Can anyone find that image of his where the orc has no jaw? The one from page 131 of Complete Warrior?

SurlySeraph
2011-03-26, 07:31 PM
http://animewallpapers.lt/albums/FEDOROS_RULES/FANTASYART/FANTASY-ART-BY-ARTIST-NAME/ADRIAN-SMITH/normal_wayne_england_warhammer_001.jpg

Here's an example of the style I dislike.

Warhammer art is always wildly inconsistent about the size of bolters, but making the barrel larger than a human head? Seriously?

Another Warhammer art complaint: pieces where you can spend 20 minutes playing "Count the Skulls," but every character has the same facial expression.
http://jedineka.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/warhammer_jedineka1.jpg

Knaight
2011-03-26, 07:32 PM
In the case of, say, not seeing any way a character's legs could possibly attach to them given human anatomy, I'd say yes. There's no excuse for something like that. However, an artist having a disagreeable style doesn't make them bad. For example, I don't tend to care a lot for Ron Spencer (though I have seen a few of his that are pretty great, he tends to be very hit or miss for me, with most of them in the latter), but I would never call him a bad artist. He has his quirks, and I tend to think they look bad, but that's cool. Art would be a lot more boring if stuff like that didn't happen.

On a similar note, one shouldn't be able to refer to that one and have everyone instantly pick up on exactly which picture is meant. Its an indication that something went horribly wrong.

tonberrian
2011-03-26, 07:35 PM
On a similar note, one shouldn't be able to refer to that one and have everyone instantly pick up on exactly which picture is meant. Its an indication that something went horribly wrong.

Seriously.

Amiel
2011-03-26, 11:52 PM
Ah, yes. Mialee, the space frog.
I think calling Mialee a space frog is an insult to space frogs :smalltongue:

AslanCross
2011-03-27, 12:05 AM
I know it's fun to make up reasons to criticize sub-optimal art, but do the artists really deserve it? :smallannoyed:

I certainly was not making up reasons, and if you look at my earlier posts I mention that the "bad artists" that are often mentioned do have pieces where they redeem themselves.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-27, 02:04 AM
I think calling Mialee a space frog is an insult to space frogs :smalltongue:
I don't think that's bad art, though some of it is bad, that's just a strange visaged charachter. If someone draws an ugly person, is it 'bad art' because they are not beautiful by human standards?
If we are going to talk about simple preferences, I hate the Iconic Paladins armour. What in all the upper and lower planes is that supposed to protect? And it isn't even attached at the bottom, meaning it is liable to fly up and hit in her face, while simultaneously flashing everyone in line of sight.
Now this, this is a female paladin in armour. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin)

Reynard
2011-03-27, 02:26 AM
I don't think that's bad art, though some of it is bad, that's just a strange visaged charachter. If someone draws an ugly person, is it 'bad art' because they are not beautiful by human standards?
If we are going to talk about simple preferences, I hate the Iconic Paladins armour. What in all the upper and lower planes is that supposed to protect? And it isn't even attached at the bottom, meaning it is liable to fly up and hit in her face, while simultaneously flashing everyone in line of sight.
I saw some black and white pictures of the iconics, and the one for the pally made it look like the pointless scale flap thing was just that. she seemed to be wearing a full breastplate, and using the flap-thing as decoration.

Looking back at the PHB image, though, :smallyuk:


Now this, this is a female paladin in armour. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin)

Pathfinder artist can't do elbows. I don't think I've ever seen one by him that looks right.

The Tygre
2011-03-27, 02:36 AM
We're not talking about elbows, we're talking about what a good female paladin should look like.

Knaight
2011-03-27, 02:41 AM
We're not talking about elbows, we're talking about what a good female paladin should look like.

I'd imagine that general body proportions that one would expect for a warrior of their species is somewhere high on that list. Given that paladins would usually be humanoid, that includes elbows that actually look like elbows and are where they are supposed to be on the arm. Neither of these traits exists in the example picture.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-27, 03:25 AM
I'd imagine that general body proportions that one would expect for a warrior of their species is somewhere high on that list. Given that paladins would usually be humanoid, that includes elbows that actually look like elbows and are where they are supposed to be on the arm. Neither of these traits exists in the example picture.
It seems to be hidden under the folds of scale armour. But yeah, it really doesn't look like it is there, hidden or not.
Other then that though, she has a calm nobility that I like a lot, as well as armour that looks like it can do more then simply make enemies step on their tongues. Distraction factor aside, that's not going to stop a blade.

I saw some black and white pictures of the iconics, and the one for the pally made it look like the pointless scale flap thing was just that. she seemed to be wearing a full breastplate, and using the flap-thing as decoration.

You mean these pictures? (http://old.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Iconics/) yeah, that is significantly better. Still her midriff is somewhat bare.


Looking back at the PHB image, though,

Oh gods yes.

DeltaEmil
2011-03-27, 03:35 AM
Meh, the female pathfinder paladin still has non-sensical boobs-armor instead of a sensible real heavy plate mail that a woman would wear if she were some kind of knight in full plate armor. But yeah, it's a nice step up compared to other dumb stuff like chainmail bikini or plate mail... with a bare midriff or something equally inane. :smallsigh:

And she doesn't have the typical ratface that Wayne Reynolds draws so often on females.

faceroll
2011-03-27, 03:46 AM
except by all rights, Krusk should have a lower Charisma than her. Cha is also a dump stat for Barbarians, and he's got a racial penalty to boot...except in almost all his pics, he looks great. Or is a pimp, which is also great.

You find Krusk attractive?
wtf

Ravens_cry
2011-03-27, 03:50 AM
There was male breast plate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_cuirass) that followed the bodies curves pretty closely, so the idea isn't completely without real world precedent. Apparently Joel Schumacher wasn't the first to use Bat-Nipples.:smalltongue:

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 04:00 AM
There was male breast plate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_cuirass) that followed the bodies curves pretty closely, so the idea isn't completely without real world precedent. Apparently Joel Schumacher wasn't the first to use Bat-Nipples.:smalltongue:

Well it didn't obviously follow body curves in any way, that would be pretty insane, not to mention pretty impossible to do.

It just had idealized Greek art & stuff image of male torso sculpted on it's surface.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-27, 04:14 AM
Well it didn't obviously follow body curves in any way, that would be pretty insane, not to mention pretty impossible to do.

It just had idealized Greek art & stuff image of male torso sculpted on it's surface.
It still has curves that, like breasted breast plate, allow stronger hits. It still not completely realistic, but it wouldn't surprise me if woman had been commonly wearing armour in that time period that similarly anatomical armour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Augusto_di_pirma_porta,_inv._2290,_03.JPG)wou ld have resulted.

DeltaEmil
2011-03-27, 04:40 AM
No, women in real-life history who did wear any plate armor at all and did actually fight against a bunch of other people bent on killing them did not wear boobie-plate. And there is a difference between boobie-plate, which is non-sense and actually helps the enemy killing you, because you deflect the blow towards your center, and breastplate that doesn't have a sink section on your torso.

Now, this is not a thread about how stupid boobie-armor is.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-27, 04:51 AM
It may be less practical but much less so then say, a hole in your chestplate, a bared mid riff or other equally silly 'armours'.

faceroll
2011-03-27, 04:58 AM
No, women in real-life history who did wear any plate armor at all and did actually fight against a bunch of other people bent on killing them did not wear boobie-plate. And there is a difference between boobie-plate, which is non-sense and actually helps the enemy killing you, because you deflect the blow towards your center, and breastplate that doesn't have a sink section on your torso.

Now, this is not a thread about how stupid boobie-armor is.

The breast parts could be simply decoration and not actually part of the structural integrity of the plate. That, and the handful of women in battle would probably have been masquerading as men. No market for breasties plate.

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 05:27 AM
The breast parts could be simply decoration and not actually part of the structural integrity of the plate. That, and the handful of women in battle would probably have been masquerading as men. No market for breasties plate.

'Decoration' would still weight a lot, and still would let the blows slide towards the center, which could be possibly bad. Generally it would be just hard to profile two decent 'boobs' without screwing optimal geometry too much.

Unless you mean light, delicate decoration, that would simply get smashed by anything, offering not much resistance. Then maybe it could be fine.

As far as topic goes, one couldn't possibly start a thread like that without knowing that it will slide into the idee fixe of tons of 'awful art'. It was only inevitable. :smallamused:


Anyway, speaking of not particularly fortunate art, this one stick in my memory...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/spellcomp_gallery/92242.jpg



Not an bad art, definitely, but for a spell that summons dozens of living maggots under victims skin, it looks kinda.....

cute?

GolemsVoice
2011-03-27, 05:47 AM
Yeah, she seems more (pleasantly?) suprised than freaked out. Like someone summoned a puppy to attack her.

some guy
2011-03-27, 05:53 AM
You mean these pictures? (http://old.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Iconics/) yeah, that is significantly better. Still her midriff is somewhat bare.


Those pictures are nice, but I find the thighs a bit too small. In some cases, laughably small. And I want to be friends with that Jozan, he seems like a pal.





Anyway, speaking of not particularly fortunate art, this one stick in my memory...

[snip]


Not an bad art, definitely, but for a spell that summons dozens of living maggots under victims skin, it looks kinda.....

cute?
Yeah, the victim looks like she's in a somewhat mild puzzlement over the maggots crawling out of her skin, instead of a state of panic and terror.

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 06:29 AM
Those pictures are nice, but I find the thighs a bit too small. In some cases, laughably small. And I want to be friends with that Jozan, he seems like a pal.


Seriously, thighs?

The only picture were thighs are really noticeable, and indeed small is Mialee one, and I would say that's perfectly suitable for character?

some guy
2011-03-27, 07:57 AM
Seriously, thighs?

The only picture were thighs are really noticeable, and indeed small is Mialee one, and I would say that's perfectly suitable for character?

Ah, errr, my English and/or my knowledge of the naming of body area's went a bit faulty there.
I probably meant waist? I'm not even sure anymore.
All I know is that there's something freaky going on with Ember here:
http://old.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Iconics/ember.jpg

LOTRfan
2011-03-27, 08:00 AM
Edit: Can anyone find that image of his where the orc has no jaw? The one from page 131 of Complete Warrior?

I assume you mean one of these two (as they are the only Orc pics in the book)?
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75408.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75438.jpg

dsmiles
2011-03-27, 08:18 AM
As far as topic goes, one couldn't possibly start a thread like that without knowing that it will slide into the idee fixe of tons of 'awful art'. It was only inevitable. :smallamused:
Definitely a topic for it's own thread. Some people like impractical armor, some don't.

tonberrian
2011-03-27, 09:00 AM
I assume you mean one of these two (as they are the only Orc pics in the book)?

Nope, neither of those. I don't even think that second one is in the book.

No, the picture is of (what I assume is) an orc facing directly out of the picture, barely holding a still bleeding severed head in his left hand and an oversized axe in his right, with some relatively simplistic armor.

The really bad part of the image is right under the upper jaw all the way down to his upper torso where everything just fades to black. It looks almost half-finished.

stainboy
2011-03-27, 09:14 AM
I like the Eye of Gruumsh on the top. That dude spells ork with a K.

The one on the bottom left looks like a sentient woman-shaped balloon. The binding around her neck squeezes air into her boobs.

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 09:18 AM
This one?


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75451.jpg

I think effects not too bad, actually looks kinda creepy, which is nice change of pace.

Not the best thing around, but not bad either.

tonberrian
2011-03-27, 09:32 AM
This one?


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75451.jpg

I think effects not too bad, actually looks kinda creepy, which is nice change of pace.

Not the best thing around, but not bad either.

That's the one. I just can't understand what's going on with his mouth. Losing a piece of the body like that just seems wrong, which ruins any atmosphere the piece might have for me.

Yora
2011-03-27, 09:49 AM
I think it's supposed to be somewhere in the shadow.

But the hair!

Eldan
2011-03-27, 09:50 AM
Do not question Kronk's hair! Kronk's hairstylist say Kronk's hair edgy and dark!

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 09:59 AM
I think I would complement his hair even if it was pink baleyage with an porcelain pony in it though.

Anyway, I was wandering though old 3.5 galleries and:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/hob_gallery/89499.jpg

Well..... Looks like Necromancer/Alien/Triceratops LARP to me.

Eldan
2011-03-27, 10:04 AM
Ah, England. I never know what it is about his style, but it's very distinct.

some guy
2011-03-27, 10:35 AM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/rodragon_gallery/94121.jpg

Okay, Blue Bowie selecting his daily atire. I can deal with that. But what's up with the objects and the background? It looks like they were pasted onto the picture, giving it all a very fake look. And the walls?
All the separate parts of the picture look as if they were all just thrown together in one picture. If it was just Blue Bowie by himself, it would just be a silly illustration. But now? I don't even etc.

Miscast_Mage
2011-03-27, 10:36 AM
You mean these pictures? (http://old.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Iconics/)

Why has no-one commented on Ember's lips yet? They just... Gah! They look as if they were pasted onto the picture! In fact, most of the lips in the recent pictures look a little off in some way or another...

And is it just me, or is Krusk actually pretty attractive in this?

some guy
2011-03-27, 10:43 AM
And is it just me, or is Krusk actually pretty attractive in this?

No, it's not just you. But mind you, the Mialee of that series is also pretty attractive.

Eldan
2011-03-27, 11:01 AM
Why has no-one commented on Ember's lips yet? They just... Gah! They look as if they were pasted onto the picture! In fact, most of the lips in the recent pictures look a little off in some way or another...

I think it's just that her entire head looks malformed. The lower half is too big for the upper half.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-27, 11:35 AM
This sketch of Mialee isn't at all bad. She actually looks more like an attractive female elf and not at all like a space frog.

http://old.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Iconics/mialee_color.jpg

Eldan
2011-03-27, 11:36 AM
But she shouldn't look too attractive. She should be slightly below average, having charisma 8.

dsmiles
2011-03-27, 11:43 AM
This sketch of Mialee isn't at all bad. She actually looks more like an attractive female elf and not at all like a space frog.
Well, female elf, at any rate. I wouldn't say attractive. :smalltongue:

Jokasti
2011-03-27, 12:33 PM
Well, female elf, at any rate. I wouldn't say attractive. :smalltongue:

Well, elf, at any rate. I wouldn't say female. :smalltongue:

dsmiles
2011-03-27, 12:35 PM
Well, elf, at any rate. I wouldn't say female. :smalltongue:No adam's apple, so I would (without further evidence) say female. Not that I'd be willing to find out, mind you, I do have standards. :smallwink:

LOTRfan
2011-03-27, 12:38 PM
No adam's apple, so I would (without further evidence) say female.

I don't know, my first grade teacher had an adam's apple....

dsmiles
2011-03-27, 12:39 PM
I don't know, my first grade teacher had an adam's apple....
Are you sure it was "all woman"? :smalltongue:

LOTRfan
2011-03-27, 12:42 PM
:eek::eek::eek:

Oh my god, I hate you so much right now... :smallyuk:

EDIT: Although I wouldn't be surprised if that evil witch wasn't...

averagejoe
2011-03-27, 01:19 PM
Those pictures are nice, but I find the thighs a bit too small. In some cases, laughably small. And I want to be friends with that Jozan, he seems like a pal.

You'd think so, but then he steps on your face instead of just putting away his damn mace or something.


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75438.jpg

Wow. That's pretty awful.

lesser_minion
2011-03-27, 01:27 PM
The picture used for Lightning Gauntlets (MiC) and Armguards of Disruption (MoI) is one of my least favourite. The fact that the artist saw fit to submit it in the first place astounds me. The fact that it was used in two different D&D sourcebooks... Did WotC actually care about anything they were printing?

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 01:30 PM
This?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mic_gallery/91030.jpg

Derjuin
2011-03-27, 01:35 PM
Maybe this one:


http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc273/xilobucket/LightningGauntlets.png


Edit: I think the picture originally appears in Magic of Incarnum, because that character is used elsewhere in the book to depict the Soulborn.

lesser_minion
2011-03-27, 01:35 PM
This?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mic_gallery/91030.jpg

No, not that one. It's the first picture listed here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20050909a

Admittedly, I have seen worse in this thread, but nothing that really provokes quite the same reaction.

Edit: Derjuin has the right one. It appeared in MoI first, then MiC (I actually thought it was used for lightning gauntlets both times, but evidently not).

Yora
2011-03-27, 02:00 PM
I think its pretty good.

dsmiles
2011-03-27, 02:02 PM
Maybe this one: Is she double jointed in the hips or something? Who stands like that?

Spiryt
2011-03-27, 02:07 PM
I think its pretty good.

Don't think it's good, can't say it's really awful in any way. Just some girl and electrical energy.

Asheram
2011-03-27, 02:14 PM
I think I would complement his hair even if it was pink baleyage with an porcelain pony in it though.

Anyway, I was wandering though old 3.5 galleries and:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/hob_gallery/89499.jpg

Well..... Looks like Necromancer/Alien/Triceratops LARP to me.

Who invited the Warhammer troops to the party?

NotScaryBats
2011-03-27, 03:15 PM
I feel the need to link to Something Awful's "WTF D&D" - where they make fun of bad rpg art: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/

Asarlai
2011-03-27, 05:04 PM
I feel the need to link to Something Awful's "WTF D&D" - where they make fun of bad rpg art: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/

Thank you for that link. This picture (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/fiend-folio-3e.php?page=15) had me dying of laughter, though the whole list was hilarious.

lesser_minion
2011-03-27, 05:11 PM
I think its pretty good.

I can't point out anything objectively horrible about that pic, but I just really don't like it. Seeing it get recycled did not do anything to sell it to me.

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-27, 07:18 PM
No adam's apple, so I would (without further evidence) say female. Not that I'd be willing to find out, mind you, I do have standards. :smallwink:

A wee bit harsh, are we? She does look a little sickly, but has a pretty face and a female-looking bodyshape.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-27, 07:49 PM
Wow. That's pretty awful.
Why? Very nice colours I think, maybe not atmospheric or spooky, but the colours and textures are nice, and the contrast between her calmly twisting his wrist to disarm the orc and his "gwah?" isn't bad. All in all, I don't see your problem with this.

dsmiles
2011-03-27, 08:07 PM
A wee bit harsh, are we? She does look a little sickly, but has a pretty face and a female-looking bodyshape.I did say it looks female, just not attractive.

Derjuin
2011-03-27, 08:18 PM
I don't know how awful it appears to everyone else, but the ghoul picture in the MM has always made me think it looked really out of place.


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG119.jpg

Purple skin on an undead, and its head looks REALLY displaced from its shoulders. Oh, and its mouth looks like...bloody mangled up hamburger :smallyuk: The coloring of its ribs kinda throws me off, too, like it has flanges or something that protrude from the skin and cast a shadow.

averagejoe
2011-03-28, 12:23 AM
Why? Very nice colours I think, maybe not atmospheric or spooky, but the colours and textures are nice, and the contrast between her calmly twisting his wrist to disarm the orc and his "gwah?" isn't bad. All in all, I don't see your problem with this.

For one, it doesn't look like she's twisting his arm, it looks like he's holding his arm at an awkward angle and she's resting her hand on it. It doesn't help that the scimitar is just kind of falling lazily to the side, to the point that it basically looks suspended in the air, and it's hard to tell what's going on with that in general. It doesn't even look like they were in combat; if anything, it just kinda looks like the monk walked up to the orc and twisted his arm slightly.

Don't get me wrong, I actually dig the style a lot. It kinda harkens back to the older styles of fantasy art without looking cheesy or dated. I like the details on the orc's armor a lot, and 1) having an actual background, 2) having a background that seems like it was drawn by someone who's been outside before, and 3) I dunno I just like temperate forests as settings. I agree with you about the colors as well; the whole "red vs. blue" thing is a particularly nice touch. Maybe it was disingenuous to give that terse, "Wow, that's pretty awful," so apologies.

However, the point remains that there's an action scene going on and there's nothing dynamic about it. It's okay for have monks in combat to have expressionless faces; however, it should be intense expressionlessness, not boredom. The orc is little better; he just looks kinda mildly surprised. It's like they're putting on a show, not actually fighting. There needs to be some strain in their poses and some intensity in their expressions. This artist seems like he'd do better with some still shots. As it is, the action just looks fake and boring.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-28, 04:20 AM
I admit it's not very dynamic, but I like the colours and textures too much to call it awful.

potatocubed
2011-03-28, 06:06 AM
Who invited the Warhammer troops to the party?

Presumably the guy who hired an ex-Warhammer artist to do the art. :smalltongue:

Eldan
2011-03-28, 06:08 AM
England did Warhammer art? Makes sense: it's spiky.

Miscast_Mage
2011-03-28, 06:24 AM
The thing that bugs me is her wrist. What in Hextor's name is that bump on it? Hells, her wrist is general just seems off. Her cleavage also bugs me, but when 90% of fantasy/sci-fi artwork shoves a pair of boobs in your face one way or another, you get used to it.:smallannoyed:

GolemsVoice
2011-03-28, 07:33 AM
Wayne England was one of THE Warhammer artist for a while, at least the old rulebooks I read gave me this impression. You could hardly turn a page in the old Warhammer 40K rulebook (3rd edition? I don't really know) without stumbling upon some spikey-haired/armored guy with with veins big enough to tow ships with and either a frontal look, ar a strange verision of a profile that made all faces have this / angle.

Eldan
2011-03-28, 07:40 AM
Hmm. Must have been less common in Warhammer Fantasy. I switched to 40k relatively late, and never saw much of him. And everything's spiky in Warhammer anyway.

averagejoe
2011-03-28, 06:07 PM
I admit it's not very dynamic, but I like the colours and textures too much to call it awful.

The stuff I talked about kind of gave it (to me) an uncanny valley look to it which I maybe reacted to a bit strongly. I did apologize for just calling it, "Awful."

Chainsaw Hobbit
2011-03-28, 07:30 PM
I did say it looks female, just not attractive.
Why?


I don't know how awful it appears to everyone else, but the ghoul picture in the MM has always made me think it looked really out of place.


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG119.jpg

Purple skin on an undead, and its head looks REALLY displaced from its shoulders. Oh, and its mouth looks like...bloody mangled up hamburger :smallyuk: The coloring of its ribs kinda throws me off, too, like it has flanges or something that protrude from the skin and cast a shadow.

Yes, that is bad. Some of the stuff in there was a lot worse though.

dsmiles
2011-03-28, 07:37 PM
Why?You really wanna go there? :smallconfused:

Shadowleaf
2011-03-28, 08:25 PM
I have a few offenders:

http://img1.wantitall.co.za/images/ShowImage.aspx?ImageId=Clanbook-Tzimisce%7C51K4B7QY8ML.jpg

Seriously. This man is supposed to be an ancient, insane, badass Vampire. The artstyle is just... Ugh.



http://img2.wantitall.co.za/images/ShowImage.aspx?ImageId=Book-of-Shadows-Mage-Players-Guide%7C51VCRGRCVYL.jpg
The fashion police called. Even they won't touch you nor your MS Paint spell effects.



This:

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/7208/pic1t.png

Compared to this, a few pages later:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9171/pic2mf.png

Beowulf DW
2011-03-29, 12:16 AM
Ah, errr, my English and/or my knowledge of the naming of body area's went a bit faulty there.
I probably meant waist? I'm not even sure anymore.
All I know is that there's something freaky going on with Ember here:
http://old.enworld.org/Pozas/Pictures/Iconics/ember.jpg

Good lord, you're right. Her figure resembles that of a man.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-29, 02:10 AM
Good lord, you're right. Her figure resembles that of a man.
To be fair, that may have been intentional. Many of the more extreme female body builders (http://www.buzzinn.net/img/bizarre-and-odd/the-strongest-woman-in-sweden/the-strongest-woman-in-sweden01.jpg) and runners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Osaka07_D2A_Torri_Edwards.jpg), trimming down body fat to the minimal possible, remove the fat deposits that help define 'feminine' to the human brain, like hips. I guess the artist was going for an ascetic, athletic look. Or it's just bad.:smalltongue:

Erom
2011-03-29, 08:31 AM
The whole gallery seems to have the problem though, it's not ember specific. It's like everything below the waist has been shrunk by 10% or so.

Kris Strife
2011-03-29, 08:50 AM
I thought it was her head. Something about her head and face just seems... wrong.

Ravens_cry
2011-03-29, 09:44 AM
I feel the same way about the Mialee picture. The face feels really pasted on, not centred right.