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View Full Version : Half-baked Kitsune design idea [3.5/Pathfinder]



Mulletmanalive
2011-03-24, 07:22 PM
Revised attempt B:

D&D Version:

Note: Racial traits that are red additional abilities intended to upgrade the race to Pathfinder standards. If using D&D 3.5, ignore them.

Ninko [Foxfolk] Racial Traits:
Humanoid [Fox, Yokai]: Ninko are humanoids with the Fox and Yokai subtypes and are treated as humans for most purposes, though see Vulpine Spirit below. A Yokai is similar to a fæ, though they are created from other things that get very old. Yokai are treated as fæ and unholy for purposes of exorcisms and the like.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution. Ninko are quick and agile but not hugely reslient, a remnant of their flimsey vulpine bone structure
Medium
Speed: 40ft
Bijuu [Su/Sp]: Ninko, like all Kitsune, are Bijuu and possess one tail. They may select further tails as feats at or beyond 3rd level.
Bite: The Ninko has a pair of fierce jaws that deal 1d6 damage as a natural attack. If you wish to use this in combination with other attacks, it suffers a -5 penalty to hit as a secondary natural attack.
Vulpine Senses: The Ninko have a limited form of Scent that helps little with detection but grants a +8 bonus on Survival checks made to track other creatures when tracking by scent.
Vulpine Spirit: While tricksters, the ninko are still fundamentally foxish in their thinking; they just can't shake it. The ninko can be affected by any spell that can affect animals, though it gains a +5 bonus on saves against these effects unless they also affect humanoids. For similar reason, however, ninko treat all Dexterity and Wisdom based skills as class skills for all classes.
Yokai Resilience: the ninko has DR /Natural equal to its HD. This defence is also ignored by the first blow from freshly washed blades.
Level Adjustment: +1 [D&D only]
Favoured Class: None. The downside of the adaptable flighty nature of a kitsune is that they suck at specialising.


The Tails:

Bijuu Tails:

The defining point about bijuu [tailed beasts such as kitsune and bakeneko] are their tails. Each of these tails carries a specific magical power that can be activated at will, usually by waving the tail. Waving the tail is either a Swift action or a Move action. The powers manifest by a tail endure until the next turn of the bijuu unless stated otherwise; at the beginning of her new turn, the bijuu was the option to immediately wave the tail again. If the creature chooses to do so, the effect remains intact and unbroken with no trace of disruption.

Obviously, there are limits to the number of tails that can be waved at any one time, based on the bijuu's actions and they cannot be waved while the bijuu is Stunned, Paralysed or Unconscious.


{table]Tail |Ability
First tail |Human form: the kitsune can wave its tail to make a change in appearance to a human of their choice; either one seen or an imaginary one. Doing so requires a "tails check" [1d20 + number of tails] against the target's Charisma score. Each point of failure leaves a tell in the disguise. This power grants a +20 bonus to Disguise checks, -5 per tell. This ability lasts for ten minutes and can be renewed with further waves of the tail.

Second tail [Nibi] |Stepping Behind: By waving its nibi, the Kitsune brushes at the edges of the artwork that is reality, making the seams thin and blurry. During any turn that the Kitsune waves this tail, it may Tween as though it were a true Fae with a number of HD equal to twice its total tails.

Third tail [Sanbi] |Foxfire: Foxfire is a kind of magical energy that manifests constantly as an orb balanced on the sanbi of the Kitsune [or sometimes carried in the mouth]. This can be fired as a Standard action; a ranged attack that deals 4d6 damage. Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. Additional energy dissipates if left unstimulated for a whole round. A bijuu may store no more than 2d6 per tail it possesses.

Fourth tail [Yonbi] |Illusionary Aspect: By waving its Yonbi, a Kitsune can make edits to the world around them. The Kitsune counts as casting Major Image, save that it has a duration of "sustained" and lasts as long as the kitsune maintains the image.

Fifth tail [Goubi] |Flight: By waving its Goubi, a Kitsune replaces its other movement speeds with a Fly speed equal to twice their base land speed with perfect manoeuvrability until their next turn.

Sixth tail [Rokubi] |Dream Manifestation: While it continues to wave its rokubi, a Kitsune projects itself into the dreams of a sleeping being within 30ft. While inside, it may replicate the effects of either a Nightmare or Dream. Saves apply as normal. A given target may be affected by this ability no more than once per night, whether they save or not.

Seventh tail [Shichibi] |Possession: Wrapping its Shichibi around a victim [a Standard action during a Grapple; you don't wave this one], a Kitsune is able to penetrate the mind of it's victim and take possession of it. This ability functions identically to demonic possession [see Fiendish codex 1 or BoVD], save that their body is absorbed into the victim too.

Eighth tail [Hachibi] |World-bending Illusion: By waving its hichibi, the Kitsune is able to distort reality more to its liking, or at least, reality in the eyes of those around it. This functions similarly to the Yonbi's power, but instead mimics the spell Mirage Arcana, with a duration based on how long the user concentrates.

Ninth tail [Kyuubi] |All-knowing: the Kitsune becomes able to perceive a great deal. Legend has it that they become all knowing, while in reality, this is more like a highly efficient form of clairvoyance and clairaudience. The Kitsune becomes able to sense things perfectly, without skill checks out to a 1000ft radius. Beyond this, it may make skill checks as if the distance were 1000ft shorter than it actually is.
|In addition, the Kitsune may concentrate on a known point within 100 miles. It loses its local senses and is able to perceive a 300ft radius around the designated point via remote vision and hearing.
|In both these cases, the Kitsune can wave its tail to grant itself the ability to ignore all magical concealment or disguise, including illusions, phantasms, veils and polymorph effects. All creatures appear in their natural form.[/table]

MV Version:

Ninko [Foxfolk] Racial Traits:
Humanoid [Fox, Yokai]: Ninko are humanoids with the Fox and Yokai subtypes and are treated as humans for most purposes, though see Vulpine Spirit below. A Yokai is similar to a fæ, though they are created from other things that get very old. Yokai are treated as fæ and unholy for purposes of exorcisms and the like.
+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution. Ninko are quick and agile but not hugely reslient, a remnant of their flimsey vulpine bone structure
Medium
Speed: 40ft
Agile: Whenever it takes a Defence action, the Ninko adds its dexterity modifier to its defence.
Bijuu [Su/Sp]: Ninko, like all Kitsune, are Bijuu and possess one tail. They may select further tails as feats at or beyond 3rd level.
Bite: The Ninko has a pair of fierce jaws that deal 1d6 damage as a natural attack. If you wish to use this in combination with other attacks, it suffers a -5 penalty to hit as a secondary natural attack.
Vulpine Senses: The Ninko have a limited form of Scent that helps little with detection but grants a +8 bonus on Survival checks made to track other creatures when tracking by scent.
Vulpine Spirit: While tricksters, the ninko are still fundamentally foxish in their thinking; they just can't shake it. The ninko can be affected by any spell that can affect animals, though it gains a +5 bonus on saves against these effects unless they also affect humanoids. For similar reason, however, ninko treat all Dexterity and Wisdom based skills as class skills for all classes.
Yokai Resilience: the ninko has DR /Natural equal to its HD. This defence is also ignored by the first blow from freshly washed blades.
Null Class levels: 1 [d8 HD, +0 BAB, +0 Defence, +0 all saves, 4 + Intelligence modifier skill points, one feat]
Favoured Class: None. The downside of the adaptable flighty nature of a kitsune is that they suck at specialising.


The Tails:

Bijuu Tails:

The defining point about bijuu [tailed beasts such as kitsune and bakeneko] are their tails. Each of these tails carries a specific magical power that can be activated at will, usually by waving the tail. Waving the tail is either a Swift action or a Move action. The powers manifest by a tail endure until the next turn of the bijuu unless stated otherwise; at the beginning of her new turn, the bijuu was the option to immediately wave the tail again. If the creature chooses to do so, the effect remains intact and unbroken with no trace of disruption.

Obviously, there are limits to the number of tails that can be waved at any one time, based on the bijuu's actions and they cannot be waved while the bijuu is Stunned, Paralysed or Unconscious.


{table]Tail |Ability
First tail [Ichibi] |Human form: the kitsune can wave its tail to make a change in appearance to a human of their choice; either one seen or an imaginary one. Doing so requires a "tails check" [1d20 + number of tails] against the target's Charisma score. Each point of failure leaves a tell in the disguise. This power grants a +20 bonus to Disguise checks, -5 per tell. This ability lasts for ten minutes and can be renewed with further waves of the tail.

Second tail [Nibi] |Stepping Behind: By waving its nibi, the Kitsune brushes at the edges of the artwork that is reality, making the seams thin and blurry. During any turn that the Kitsune waves this tail, it may Tween as though it were a true Fae with a number of HD equal to twice its total tails.

Third tail [Sanbi] |Foxfire: Foxfire is a kind of magical energy that manifests constantly as an orb balanced on the sanbi of the Kitsune [or sometimes carried in the mouth]. This can be fired as a Standard action; a ranged attack that deals 4d6 damage. Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. Additional energy dissipates if left unstimulated for a whole round. A bijuu may store no more than 2d6 per tail it possesses.

Fourth tail [Yonbi] |Illusionary Aspect: By waving its Yonbi, a Kitsune can make edits to the world around them. The Kitsune creates a number of glammer aspects equal to the number of tails they possess. Theirs is a limited form of illusion, however, and they can create no more than one creature at a time. For now, refer to the Fear Derrig ability Master of Glammer ability for guidelines (a section on Fae illusions will be nicluded in Fae-o-matic to make this work properly.)

Fifth tail [Goubi] |Flight: By waving its Goubi, a Kitsune replaces its other movement speeds with a Fly speed equal to twice their base land speed with perfect manoeuvrability until their next turn.

Sixth tail [Rokubi] |Dream Manifestation: While it continues to wave its rokubi, a Kitsune projects itself into the dreams of a sleeping being within 30ft. While inside, it may use its Illusionary Aspect ability as a Standard action, creating up to one glammer aspect per HD it possesses. This can be used either to create a Dreamscape or to shape and wander the dreams of the target; this latter option is used to tease facts from the minds of the victim, allowing him to make a Gather Information check on the inside of the victim's mind.

| If you would prefer not to use a Dreamscape, the Kitsune may attempt to inflict any two of Rage, Good Hope, Crushing Despair and/or Fear on the victim. A Will save, DC 10 + number of tails + Charisma modifier, negates both of these effects.

Seventh tail [Shichibi] |Possession: Wrapping its Shichibi around a victim [a Standard action during a Grapple; you don't wave this one], a Kitsune is able to penetrate the mind of it's victim and take possession of it. This ability functions identically to demonic possession [see Fiendish codex 1 or BoVD], save that their body is absorbed into the victim too.

Eighth tail [Hachibi] |World-bending Illusion: By waving its hichibi, the Kitsune is able to distort reality more to its liking, or at least, reality in the eyes of those around it. This ability functions exactly like, and may be combined with, the Yonbi ability to create illusions. In addition, the Kitsune may opt to render a number of aspects semi-real by bending material out of the Hedge to fill in the gaps. Effectively, these sections are actually solid, able to bear weight and stop motion. They have a hardness of 5 and 30 hp per 5ft section. These sections must be assigned when the illusion is maintained each round and cost 1 hp per round [one hit point to have any real sections, not one per section]. Mobile components of the illusion cannot be given substance in this manner.

Ninth tail [Kyuubi] |All-knowing: the Kitsune becomes able to perceive a great deal. Legend has it that they become all knowing, while in reality, this is more like a highly efficient form of clairvoyance and clairaudience. The Kitsune becomes able to sense things perfectly, without skill checks out to a 1000ft radius. Beyond this, it may make skill checks as if the distance were 1000ft shorter than it actually is.
|In addition, the Kitsune may concentrate on a known point within 100 miles. It loses its local senses and is able to perceive a 300ft radius around the designated point via remote vision and hearing.
|In both these cases, the Kitsune can wave its tail to grant itself the ability to ignore all magical concealment or disguise, including illusions, phantasms, veils and polymorph effects. All creatures appear in their natural form.[/table]

A null level is an idea i've been thinking about for a while; basically, they're just Humanoid HD with no good saves and the creature gains one for every LA they would be forced to have. The major weakness early on is that these HD don't come with any weapon proficiencies unless the race comes with some. Main reason for the bite attack, right there.

Shaking Bounds [Kitsune]:
[I] You have learned the art of jumping around erratically in such a way that it shakes your tails to activate your powers and also makes you tricky to hit.
Prerequisites: Kitsune, Nibi, Mobility
Description: When you take your first Shift action of the round, you count as also Waving a tail and taking a Defence action. Further Shifts grant no additional benefits.

Right, these are the abilities I've settled on for now, with the D&D version trimmed down a little to make up for the fact that you can't actually KILL illusions in D&D. Would anyone be willing to make an example character using either a Samural or a Ninja type class for D&D? Level is up to you, but please no more than 9. Need a nice example for Fae-o-matic.

Sydonai
2011-03-24, 07:50 PM
You should limit the Foxfire to one ball per tail, maybe number of tails plus mouth, and you need to specify what kind of damage it does. Likewise the Illusionary Aspect does "Mental" damage, what does that mean?

Mulletmanalive
2011-03-24, 07:54 PM
You should limit the Foxfire to one ball per tail, maybe number of tails plus mouth, and you need to specify what kind of damage it does. Likewise the Illusionary Aspect does "Mental" damage, what does that mean?

It says "sanbi" not "tails." i.e. the orb is created by the number three tail and just sits there unless discharged. What energy type do you think it aught to be? Fire and Lightning being the obvious ones...[from the legends]

I've adjusted Mental damage to be "Mind-affecting but otherwise untyped damage"

unosarta
2011-03-24, 09:27 PM
Oh wow, this looks fantastic! Absolutely flavorful, from the mythology standpoint, and very versatile, while still fitting in with the flavor. Me likey!

Sydonai
2011-03-24, 09:52 PM
It says "sanbi" not "tails." i.e. the orb is created by the number three tail and just sits there unless discharged. What energy type do you think it aught to be? Fire and Lightning being the obvious ones...[from the legends]

I've adjusted Mental damage to be "Mind-affecting but otherwise untyped damage"

"Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. " There should be a limit to the damage you can do with this, that what I was saying.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-03-24, 11:38 PM
Nice job. However, I would get rid of their ability to use it as part of a move action, it seems too abusable. Instead, note that they can use it twice in a round with a swift and standard action together. (Actions are very valuable in D&D.)

1) Having them check against the form's Charisma score doesn't make sense. Just make it a flat DC 10.

Also, note that the GM should make the check in secret (along with the Disguise check.)

Do they have to make a new Charisma and Disguise check every time they refresh the duration? Can observers tell when they refresh the duration? If the kitsune uses other abilities, does the tail appear and ruin the disguise?

The fact that it can be wildly unreliable is actually pretty cool. You can give them some other neat racial abilities, maybe a claw/claw natural weapon would make sense.

2) Too powerful. The kitsune can make a full attack, then vanish at the end of its turn every turn in combat. This is basically permanent invisibility that you only have to drop when you attack. Readied actions counter it, but it's still ridiculously powerful.

A decent nerf would be to require a DC 20 Charisma check, but you don't want that... Maybe it could require a DC 10 Charisma check, but they suffer a -1 penalty to the check every time they successfully use it per day.

If you want it to be reliable, how about making it require them to not move at all the round before they use it? Alternately, you could make it daze them when the invisibility drops.

3) Foxfire is easy to balance. Make it do only 1d8 damage when used as a swift action, and have it provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for ranged attacks. Let them do 4d8 damage if they use it as a full-round action.

4) Specify that this is a visual, tactile, auditory, and olfactory Phantasm (read up on illusions in the SRD.) Specify that they have to maintain the illusion by using the ability each round or it dissipates instantly. Specify that it requires a Will save to see through it, and that creatures that physically interact with the illusion get a second save. Specify that it can be Large or smaller, or that it can disguise a creature or object of Large size or smaller as something in the same size category.

The mental damage thing is weird, that would make it a Shadow, which isn't mind-affecting. I'd leave it out, since this is better illusory power than most illusionists get. Besides, the Kitsune already has fireballs if it wants to do damage (and creative illusions can lead to plenty of damage.)

5) Looks fine.

6) Gather Information does not work that way. :smallsigh: Instead, I would simply say that the Kitsune gains complete control over the target's dreams, and can extract information or cause fatigue from nightmares on a failed Will save (at a -4 penalty.) Another possible use could be implanting suggestions that are triggered under circumstances of the Kitsune's choosing. The target wakes up on a successful Will save.

7) For a feat? This is getting powerful.

I would allow the target a Will save every round to reject the posession and force the Kitsune out. Maybe let the Kitsune reduce that to one Will save per 10 minutes if it can maintain concentration (in other words, when not in combat.) Note that the Kitsune is dazed on the round that it leaves the target (willingly or not.)

8) I'm sorry... What?
I would say that this works like their 4th tail ability, but that it can be projected on EVERYTHING in a 100' radius.

9) Why not make it simpler? Give them permanent blindsight 60', blindsense 120', and then let them use clairvoyance on anything within 1 mile per level.

Also, the standard for spell-like Will save DCs is 10 + 1/2 level + Charisma modifier.

Mulletmanalive
2011-03-25, 06:15 AM
"Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. " There should be a limit to the damage you can do with this, that what I was saying.

"To a maximum of the Kitsune's HD?


Nice job. However, I would get rid of their ability to use it as part of a move action, it seems too abusable. Instead, note that they can use it twice in a round with a swift and standard action together. (Actions are very valuable in D&D.)

I use action transparency: the point was to get it so that the Kitsune could wave it's tail three times in a round if that was what it wanted. I'll reconsider it.


1) Having them check against the form's Charisma score doesn't make sense. Just make it a flat DC 10.

Also, note that the GM should make the check in secret (along with the Disguise check.)

Do they have to make a new Charisma and Disguise check every time they refresh the duration? Can observers tell when they refresh the duration? If the kitsune uses other abilities, does the tail appear and ruin the disguise?

The fact that it can be wildly unreliable is actually pretty cool. You can give them some other neat racial abilities, maybe a claw/claw natural weapon would make sense.

The point of the Cha thing was that the only time you encounter Kitsune in tales displaying tails is when they're attractive or interesting people. Others tend to lose their concealment as a result of shock, specifically burning, hence the charisma based thing.

I tried to make it clear that tails function in a rolling manner, so they allow you to sustain them with further actions. The chance of a flaw developing or going away seemed flavourful.



2) Too powerful. The kitsune can make a full attack, then vanish at the end of its turn every turn in combat. This is basically permanent invisibility that you only have to drop when you attack. Readied actions counter it, but it's still ridiculously powerful.

A decent nerf would be to require a DC 20 Charisma check, but you don't want that... Maybe it could require a DC 10 Charisma check, but they suffer a -1 penalty to the check every time they successfully use it per day.

If you want it to be reliable, how about making it require them to not move at all the round before they use it? Alternately, you could make it daze them when the invisibility drops.

Or perhaps just taking away a move action on the round that they emerge. Standard action only and a vanish or the loss of action seems pretty limiting.



3) Foxfire is easy to balance. Make it do only 1d8 damage when used as a swift action, and have it provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for ranged attacks. Let them do 4d8 damage if they use it as a full-round action.


You can't use it as a Swift action at all, just wafting the ball to make it more powerful. Why a Full action? By the time this is available, there are far more powerful options on the market [the warlock's now augmented 6d6 blast for one]. Perhaps putting it down to d6s?



4) Specify that this is a visual, tactile, auditory, and olfactory Phantasm (read up on illusions in the SRD.) Specify that they have to maintain the illusion by using the ability each round or it dissipates instantly. Specify that it requires a Will save to see through it, and that creatures that physically interact with the illusion get a second save. Specify that it can be Large or smaller, or that it can disguise a creature or object of Large size or smaller as something in the same size category.

The mental damage thing is weird, that would make it a Shadow, which isn't mind-affecting. I'd leave it out, since this is better illusory power than most illusionists get. Besides, the Kitsune already has fireballs if it wants to do damage (and creative illusions can lead to plenty of damage.)

The reason i didn't call it Phantasm is that's not what the legends say; Phantasms in D&D only affect a limited number of people, this affects everyone. In my games, that's fine but i was trying to pander to the RAW lovers here. Your next clause is already covered by the "waving of tails" in the description of how these things are used.

The mental damage thing isn't "quasi-real" or whatever that bull is, it's convincing the target that you've cut them and allowing the mind of the vic to do the rest. Short of hiding a hole in the ground, i can't see how this can deal damage. Hence why the tactile element was left out and why it isn't specified to be able to hide fire or whatever.



5) Looks fine.



6) Gather Information does not work that way. :smallsigh: Instead, I would simply say that the Kitsune gains complete control over the target's dreams, and can extract information or cause fatigue from nightmares on a failed Will save (at a -4 penalty.) Another possible use could be implanting suggestions that are triggered under circumstances of the Kitsune's choosing. The target wakes up on a successful Will save.

Does when I use it; there's no real way of interrogating people in D&D. Diplomacy and Intimidate don't really do what actual questioning proceedure does. I'll maybe have a think about this, but frankly, what's wrong with wandering around the guy's surface dream-thoughts, gathering information?



7) For a feat? This is getting powerful.

I would allow the target a Will save every round to reject the posession and force the Kitsune out. Maybe let the Kitsune reduce that to one Will save per 10 minutes if it can maintain concentration (in other words, when not in combat.) Note that the Kitsune is dazed on the round that it leaves the target (willingly or not.)

All of which is covered in demonic possession. In legend, they mostly act as whisperers or allies.



8) I'm sorry... What?
I would say that this works like their 4th tail ability, but that it can be projected on EVERYTHING in a 100' radius.

That seems...more abusable than the Fear Darrig ability somehow.



9) Why not make it simpler? Give them permanent blindsight 60', blindsense 120', and then let them use clairvoyance on anything within 1 mile per level.

Also, the standard for spell-like Will save DCs is 10 + 1/2 level + Charisma modifier.

Honest answer; Darkstalker. Besides, I took my rough figures [600 Kan] from the lore...

Thanks for the feedback, I'll take it into consideration.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-03-26, 01:02 AM
The point of the Cha thing was that the only time you encounter Kitsune in tales displaying tails is when they're attractive or interesting people. Others tend to lose their concealment as a result of shock, specifically burning, hence the charisma based thing.
Charisma is a mental ability score, handsome people can be shallow or awkward. Shapeshifting in D&D doesn't affect mental abilities at all.


The reason i didn't call it Phantasm is that's not what the legends say; Phantasms in D&D only affect a limited number of people, this affects everyone. In my games, that's fine but i was trying to pander to the RAW lovers here
Then make it a Pattern.


Does when I use it; there's no real way of interrogating people in D&D. Diplomacy and Intimidate don't really do what actual questioning proceedure does. I'll maybe have a think about this, but frankly, what's wrong with wandering around the guy's surface dream-thoughts, gathering information?
There's nothing wrong with giving them the ability to pull information out of peoples' heads, but Gather Information does not do that.

RTFSRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm).

Also, in regards to what you mentioned about Intimidate: a simple application of Intimidate is to interrogate someone. Boost their attitude to Friendly temporarily, and then they'll be Helpful and give you the information they want.


Anyways, that's my feedback on how the rules would work for their abilities. I'll give you some pointers on balance and rules if you write them up and post them here.

Sydonai
2011-03-26, 01:39 AM
Charisma is "force of personality" and a Kitsune's shapeshifting seems more like them forcing everyone to beleive they look different through sheer bullshi##ing then anything else.

A Kitsune is a con-man first and foremost, their abilities should be charisma based.

Mulletmanalive
2011-03-26, 04:51 PM
Revised attempt:

In D&D:

This means that a new tail is gained, as a feat, at 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th, leaving the two most powerful ones hanging, more if you want more feats. The Paragon class helps a lot with this. In theory, you could have the 9th tail by 15th level.

In Pathfinder:

As previously, the first tail is a bonus feat and the rest can be taken as normal feats, meaning that you'd cap out at 17th level, higher if you choose other feats, lower if you took the Paragon class [13th, depending on whether the paragon class has prerequisites].

The Tails:

Bijuu Tails:

The defining point about bijuu [tailed beasts such as kitsune and bakeneko] are their tails. Each of these tails carries a specific magical power that can be activated at will, usually by waving the tail. Waving the tail is either a Swift action or a Move action. The powers manifest by a tail endure until the next turn of the bijuu unless stated otherwise; at the beginning of her new turn, the bijuu was the option to immediately wave the tail again. If the creature chooses to do so, the effect remains intact and unbroken with no trace of disruption.

Obviously, there are limits to the number of tails that can be waved at any one time, based on the bijuu's actions and they cannot be waved while the bijuu is Stunned, Paralysed or Unconscious.


{table]Tail |Ability
First tail |Human form: the kitsune can wave its tail to make a change in appearance to a human of their choice; either one seen or an imaginary one. Doing so requires a "tails check" [1d20 + number of tails] against the target's Charisma score. Each point of failure leaves a tell in the disguise. This power grants a +20 bonus to Disguise checks, -5 per tell. This ability lasts for ten minutes and can be renewed with further waves of the tail.

Second tail [Nibi] |Stepping Behind: By waving its nibi, the Kitsune brushes at the edges of the artwork that is reality, making the seams thin and blurry. During any turn that the Kitsune waves this tail, it may Tween as though it were a true Fae with a number of HD equal to twice its total tails.

Third tail [Sanbi] |Foxfire: Foxfire is a kind of magical energy that manifests constantly as an orb balanced on the sanbi of the Kitsune [or sometimes carried in the mouth]. This can be fired as a Standard action which deals 4d6 damage. Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. Additional energy dissipates if left unstimulated for a whole round.

Fourth tail [Yonbi] |Illusionary Aspect: By waving its Yonbi, a Kitsune can make edits to the world around them. They can create only one aspect of large size or smaller; a figment with the Visual, Auditory and Tactile tags. They usually create an illusionary clone, either for misdirection or flanking, though illusionary weapons are difficult to dodge and deal Mental damage [Mind-affecting but otherwise untyped]. Creating an illusionary wall to hide behind is often surprisingly effective.

Fifth tail [Goubi] |Flight: By waving its Goubi, a Kitsune replaces its other movement speeds with a Fly speed equal to twice their land speed with perfect manoeuvrability until their next turn.

Sixth tail [Rokubi] |Dream Manifestation: While it continues to wave its rokubi, a Kitsune projects itself into the dreams of a sleeping being within 30ft. While inside, it may use its Illusionary Aspect ability as a Standard action, creating up to one illusionary aspect per HD it possesses. While inside, it can use Gather Information as if dealing with a crowd to learn the victim's secrets or can attempt to change the emotional state of the victim after waking by using a Bluff check [with a -10 because people are able to ignore their dreams surprisingly well. Success is equal to a [I]Crushing Dispair, Fear, Hope or Rage spell with a duration of one day.

Seventh tail [Shichibi] |Possession: Wrapping its Shichibi around a victim [a Standard action during a Grapple; you don't wave this one], a Kitsune is able to penetrate the mind of it's victim and take possession of it. This ability functions identically to demonic possession [see Fiendish codex 1 or BoVD], save that their body is absorbed into the victim too.

Eighth tail [Hachibi] |World-bending Illusion: By waving its hichibi, the Kitsune is able to distort reality more to its liking, or at least, reality in the eyes of those around it. The kitsune can create a number of Figments equal to its HD and may combine them into objects with a size larger than Large. No creature created in this manner may have an attack bonus greater than the kitune's HD pluss tails.

Ninth tail [Kyuubi] |All-knowing: the Kitsune becomes able to perceive a great deal. Legend has it that they become all knowing, while in reality, this is more like a highly efficient form of clairvoyance and clairaudience. The Kitsune becomes able to sense things perfectly, without skill checks out to a 1000ft radius. Beyond this, it may make skill checks as if the distance were 1000ft shorter than it actually is.
|In addition, the Kitsune may concentrate on a known point within 100 miles. It loses its local senses and is able to perceive a 300ft radius around the designated point via remote vision and hearing.
|In both these cases, the Kitsune can wave its tail to grant itself the ability to ignore all magical concealment or disguise, including illusions, phantasms, veils and polymorph effects. All creatures appear in their natural form.[/table]


Comments, concerns, power-levels? I'm kinda blinded by the lore at the moment so i can't seem to be objective.[/QUOTE]

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-03-26, 05:51 PM
Human form: the kitsune can wave its tail to make a change in appearance to a human of their choice; either one seen or an imaginary one. Doing so requires a "tails check" [1d20 + number of tails] against the target's Charisma score. Each point of failure leaves a tell in the disguise. This power grants a +20 bonus to Disguise checks, -5 per tell. This ability lasts for ten minutes and can be renewed with further waves of the tail.
I'll reiterate this: the target is the Kitsune, so why would it have to check against its own Charisma score? Shapeshifting doesn't change the target's mental ability scores like Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, so there's no point to making the difficulty of the disguise based on a creature's Charisma score.

...unless you're saying that they have a harder time imitating high-Charisma humans. The way I'm reading this, they can only disguise themselves as a specific human, so that would make sense. If that's the case, you may want to rephrase that. Say, "...requires a tails check against the normal Charisma score of the human being imitated." If I'm reading this right, this could lead to weird things, like an adventurer wearing a cloak of charisma to keep a Kitsune from disguising itself as him. What about temporary effects like eagle's splendor?


Stepping Behind: By waving its nibi, the Kitsune brushes at the edges of the artwork that is reality, making the seams thin and blurry. During any turn that the Kitsune waves this tail, it may Tween as though it were a true Fae with a number of HD equal to twice its total tails.
This ability is extremely powerful, as it amounts to ethereal jaunting. I'd make it only work for a number of rounds per day equal to the Kitsune's level.
Are Kitsune able to see what's happening in the real world while they're between?


Foxfire: Foxfire is a kind of magical energy that manifests constantly as an orb balanced on the sanbi of the Kitsune [or sometimes carried in the mouth]. This can be fired as a Standard action which deals 4d6 damage. Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. Additional energy dissipates if left unstimulated for a whole round.
Ah, making it be summoned as a wave and fired as a standard action works great. I'd say that it does 1d6 damage per tail, to make it scale well.
Does it deal fire damage, or is it typeless? It just says "4d6 damage".
The part about waving is odd... It means they do an extra 2d6 if they summon it, wave as a move action, then fire, which is okay if it's 5d6 when they first get it. I would specify that they can't move while charging it up over consecutive rounds, to prevent crazy things like a Kitsune wandering through a dungeon with a few hundred dice of damage charged up.


Illusionary Aspect: By waving its Yonbi, a Kitsune can make edits to the world around them. They can create only one aspect of large size or smaller; a figment with the Visual, Auditory and Tactile tags. They usually create an illusionary clone, either for misdirection or flanking, though illusionary weapons are difficult to dodge and deal Mental damage [Mind-affecting but otherwise untyped]. Creating an illusionary wall to hide behind is often surprisingly effective.
Specify the range of the effect. There's no such thing as "Mental damage", say it's just damage, but make sure you cap it. I'd say it's safe to say that they can't deal more damage than half their level per round (no-miss damage is very powerful.)
What does "weapons are difficult to dodge" mean? Why not just say that they can attack and automatically hit?
You must allow a Will save to disbelieve and negate when the illusions are interacted with.


Flight: By waving its Goubi, a Kitsune replaces its other movement speeds with a Fly speed equal to twice their land speed with perfect manoeuvrability until their next turn.
This doubles their move speed at level 12. And apparently it stacks with movement enhancements. I'd recommend you just give them a 60' fly speed to prevent abuse.


Dream Manifestation: While it continues to wave its rokubi, a Kitsune projects itself into the dreams of a sleeping being within 30ft. While inside, it may use its Illusionary Aspect ability as a Standard action, creating up to one illusionary aspect per HD it possesses. While inside, it can use Gather Information as if dealing with a crowd to learn the victim's secrets or can attempt to change the emotional state of the victim after waking by using a Bluff check [with a -10 because people are able to ignore their dreams surprisingly well. Success is equal to a Crushing Dispair, Fear, Hope or Rage spell with a duration of one day.
These effects must allow Will saves. They're also pretty powerful, since the Kitsune can put the effect on his entire party. Maybe limit the spell-like effects to once per day?


Possession: Wrapping its Shichibi around a victim [a Standard action during a Grapple; you don't wave this one], a Kitsune is able to penetrate the mind of it's victim and take possession of it. This ability functions identically to demonic possession [see Fiendish codex 1 or BoVD], save that their body is absorbed into the victim too.
I don't have the rules on that to reference...


World-bending Illusion: By waving its hichibi, the Kitsune is able to distort reality more to its liking, or at least, reality in the eyes of those around it. The kitsune can create a number of Figments equal to its HD and may combine them into objects with a size larger than Large. No creature created in this manner may have an attack bonus greater than the kitune's HD pluss tails.
I thought that the illusions didn't need to make attack rolls?
How does combining the objects work? Can you combine every other one to get half as many Colossal sized objects? Does the range improve for this one?


All-knowing: the Kitsune becomes able to perceive a great deal. Legend has it that they become all knowing, while in reality, this is more like a highly efficient form of clairvoyance and clairaudience. The Kitsune becomes able to sense things perfectly, without skill checks out to a 1000ft radius. Beyond this, it may make skill checks as if the distance were 1000ft shorter than it actually is.
In addition, the Kitsune may concentrate on a known point within 100 miles. It loses its local senses and is able to perceive a 300ft radius around the designated point via remote vision and hearing.
In both these cases, the Kitsune can wave its tail to grant itself the ability to ignore all magical concealment or disguise, including illusions, phantasms, veils and polymorph effects. All creatures appear in their natural form.
You might want to explicitly call it Blindsight.

Mulletmanalive
2011-03-26, 06:38 PM
Based on your comments, i'm going to assume everything i've written is nonsense and start over.

I'll be back when i've finished.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-03-26, 07:19 PM
Based on your comments, i'm going to assume everything i've written is nonsense and start over.

I'll be back when i've finished.

I was the only one who commented. At least wait for a second opinion. :smallsmile:

unosarta
2011-03-26, 09:46 PM
I'll reiterate this: the target is the Kitsune, so why would it have to check against its own Charisma score? Shapeshifting doesn't change the target's mental ability scores like Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, so there's no point to making the difficulty of the disguise based on a creature's Charisma score.

...unless you're saying that they have a harder time imitating high-Charisma humans. The way I'm reading this, they can only disguise themselves as a specific human, so that would make sense. If that's the case, you may want to rephrase that. Say, "...requires a tails check against the normal Charisma score of the human being imitated." If I'm reading this right, this could lead to weird things, like an adventurer wearing a cloak of charisma to keep a Kitsune from disguising itself as him. What about temporary effects like eagle's splendor?
It is, from reading the ability, the second option.

Charisma represents a character's force of personality. It does not represent their physical beauty, or even their mental beauty. All it does is show how they interact with other things around them. A good way to think about it:

Intelligence: The way a creature makes decisions. Creatures with a high Intelligence will make better decisions faster. A creature with no Intelligence does not make decisions.

Wisdom: How a creature sees the world around it. Creatures with high Wisdom are able to notice things around them, not only physical things, but also about people (hence Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive being Wis based).

Charisma: How the world sees a creature, and how the creature sees itself (they go sort of hand in hand). Creatures with a high Charisma will be noticed more. They will have more force of personality. Creatures with no charisma will have no personality.

Thus, it is harder for a Kitsune to impersonate a creature with a higher Charisma, because they have a stronger force of personality. If the Kitsune doesn't do it successfully, they give other creatures "tells" about the disguise.


This ability is extremely powerful, as it amounts to ethereal jaunting. I'd make it only work for a number of rounds per day equal to the Kitsune's level.
Are Kitsune able to see what's happening in the real world while they're between?
Except for the fact that they cannot, ever, interact with creatures in the physical world.

And considering that it is a demiplane, it is highly unlikely that they are able to see the real world.


Ah, making it be summoned as a wave and fired as a standard action works great. I'd say that it does 1d6 damage per tail, to make it scale well.
Does it deal fire damage, or is it typeless? It just says "4d6 damage".
The part about waving is odd... It means they do an extra 2d6 if they summon it, wave as a move action, then fire, which is okay if it's 5d6 when they first get it. I would specify that they can't move while charging it up over consecutive rounds, to prevent crazy things like a Kitsune wandering through a dungeon with a few hundred dice of damage charged up.
If it per tail, as you are advocating, it would be 7d6 for swift+move+standard action. At level nine (since they are gotten as feats). Considering that they spend a full round action and their only swift action for the round, that is actually a bad deal. 8d6 isn't much better, but seriously.

Also, the suggestion that it cannot be used while moving is a worthy one. Or, maybe, it cannot be used out of combat, which would give the Kitsune more mobility and still remove the problem, as compared to the other suggestion.


Specify the range of the effect. There's no such thing as "Mental damage", say it's just damage, but make sure you cap it. I'd say it's safe to say that they can't deal more damage than half their level per round (no-miss damage is very powerful.)
What does "weapons are difficult to dodge" mean? Why not just say that they can attack and automatically hit?
You must allow a Will save to disbelieve and negate when the illusions are interacted with.
If they are summoning weapons, presumably it is dealing damage as the weapon. Also, difficult to dodge probably means it gains a bonus to Attack rolls, not that it automatically hits, which is what you appear to be assuming.


This doubles their move speed at level 12. And apparently it stacks with movement enhancements. I'd recommend you just give them a 60' fly speed to prevent abuse.
You have to spend a swift or move action to use it. So, no. Honestly, using this means they can't use pretty much any other of their abilities. Think about it; the Kitsune uses their swift to gain a fly speed. If they want to use another ability and still move, they get no standard. If they want to use another ability and still use their standard, they don't get to actually move, meaning that gaining the fly speed is completely worthless.


These effects must allow Will saves. They're also pretty powerful, since the Kitsune can put the effect on his entire party. Maybe limit the spell-like effects to once per day?
I agree on will saves. Also, why do you think that Rage or Good Hope are really that powerful? Good Hope just gives you a +2 to some stuff, and Rage is a +2 to Strength and Constitution, +1 to Will saves, and a -2 penalty to AC. Not that powerful, especially considering the level they are given at.


I thought that the illusions didn't need to make attack rolls?
How does combining the objects work? Can you combine every other one to get half as many Colossal sized objects? Does the range improve for this one?
He never said that the weapons auto-hit.


You might want to explicitly call it Blindsight.
What does blindsight have to do with anything? This effect is far more powerful than blindsight and rightly so.

Mulletmanalive
2011-03-28, 03:54 PM
Revised attempt B:

Note: Racial traits that are red are specific to MV. Please ignore them if you are using D&D or Pathfinder

Ninko [Foxfolk] Racial Traits:
Humanoid [Fox, Yokai]: Ninko are humanoids with the Fox and Yokai subtypes and are treated as humans for most purposes, though see Vulpine Spirit below. A Yokai is similar to a fæ, though they are created from other things that get very old. Yokai are treated as fæ and unholy for purposes of exorcisms and the like.
+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution. Ninko are quick and agile but not hugely reslient, a remnant of their flimsey vulpine bone structure
Medium
Speed: 40ft
Agile: Whenever it takes a Defence action, the Ninko adds its dexterity modifier to its defence.
Bijuu [Su/Sp]: Ninko, like all Kitsune, are Bijuu and possess one tail. They may select further tails as feats at or beyond 3rd level.
Bite: The Ninko has a pair of fierce jaws that deal 1d6 damage as a natural attack. If you wish to use this in combination with other attacks, it suffers a -5 penalty to hit as a secondary natural attack.
Vulpine Senses: The Ninko have a limited form of Scent that helps little with detection but grants a +8 bonus on Survival checks made to track other creatures when tracking by scent.
Vulpine Spirit: While tricksters, the ninko are still fundamentally foxish in their thinking; they just can't shake it. The ninko can be affected by any spell that can affect animals, though it gains a +5 bonus on saves against these effects unless they also affect humanoids. For similar reason, however, ninko treat all Dexterity and Wisdom based skills as class skills for all classes.
Yokai Resilience: the ninko has DR /Natural equal to its HD. This defence is also ignored by the first blow from freshly washed blades.
Null Class levels: 1 [d8 HD, +0 BAB, +0 Defence, +0 all saves, 4 + Intelligence modifier skill points, one feat]
Favoured Class: None. The downside of the adaptable flighty nature of a kitsune is that they suck at specialising.


The Tails:

Bijuu Tails:

The defining point about bijuu [tailed beasts such as kitsune and bakeneko] are their tails. Each of these tails carries a specific magical power that can be activated at will, usually by waving the tail. Waving the tail is either a Swift action or a Move action. The powers manifest by a tail endure until the next turn of the bijuu unless stated otherwise; at the beginning of her new turn, the bijuu was the option to immediately wave the tail again. If the creature chooses to do so, the effect remains intact and unbroken with no trace of disruption.

Obviously, there are limits to the number of tails that can be waved at any one time, based on the bijuu's actions and they cannot be waved while the bijuu is Stunned, Paralysed or Unconscious.


{table]Tail |Ability
First tail [Ichibi] |Human form: the kitsune can wave its tail to make a change in appearance to a human of their choice; either one seen or an imaginary one. Doing so requires a "tails check" [1d20 + number of tails] against the target's Charisma score. Each point of failure leaves a tell in the disguise. This power grants a +20 bonus to Disguise checks, -5 per tell. This ability lasts for ten minutes and can be renewed with further waves of the tail.

Second tail [Nibi] |Stepping Behind: By waving its nibi, the Kitsune brushes at the edges of the artwork that is reality, making the seams thin and blurry. During any turn that the Kitsune waves this tail, it may Tween as though it were a true Fae with a number of HD equal to twice its total tails.

Third tail [Sanbi] |Foxfire: Foxfire is a kind of magical energy that manifests constantly as an orb balanced on the sanbi of the Kitsune [or sometimes carried in the mouth]. This can be fired as a Standard action; a ranged attack that deals 4d6 damage. Waving the sanbi accumulates additional dice at a rate of two dice per action spent waving. Additional energy dissipates if left unstimulated for a whole round. A bijuu may store no more than 2d6 per tail it possesses.

Fourth tail [Yonbi] |Illusionary Aspect: By waving its Yonbi, a Kitsune can make edits to the world around them. The Kitsune creates a number of glammer aspects equal to the number of tails they possess. Theirs is a limited form of illusion, however, and they can create no more than one creature at a time. For now, refer to the Fear Derrig ability Master of Glammer ability for guidelines (a section on Fae illusions will be nicluded in Fae-o-matic to make this work properly.)

Fifth tail [Goubi] |Flight: By waving its Goubi, a Kitsune replaces its other movement speeds with a Fly speed equal to twice their base land speed with perfect manoeuvrability until their next turn.

Sixth tail [Rokubi] |Dream Manifestation: While it continues to wave its rokubi, a Kitsune projects itself into the dreams of a sleeping being within 30ft. While inside, it may use its Illusionary Aspect ability as a Standard action, creating up to one glammer aspect per HD it possesses. This can be used either to create a Dreamscape or to shape and wander the dreams of the target; this latter option is used to tease facts from the minds of the victim, allowing him to make a Gather Information check on the inside of the victim's mind.

If you would prefer not to use a Dreamscape, the Kitsune may attempt to inflict any two of Rage, Good Hope, Crushing Despair and/or Fear on the victim. A Will save, DC 10 + number of tails + Charisma modifier, negates both of these effects.

Seventh tail [Shichibi] |Possession: Wrapping its Shichibi around a victim [a Standard action during a Grapple; you don't wave this one], a Kitsune is able to penetrate the mind of it's victim and take possession of it. This ability functions identically to demonic possession [see Fiendish codex 1 or BoVD], save that their body is absorbed into the victim too.

Eighth tail [Hachibi] |World-bending Illusion: By waving its hichibi, the Kitsune is able to distort reality more to its liking, or at least, reality in the eyes of those around it. This ability functions exactly like, and may be combined with, the Yonbi ability to create illusions. In addition, the Kitsune may opt to render a number of aspects semi-real by bending material out of the Hedge to fill in the gaps. Effectively, these sections are actually solid, able to bear weight and stop motion. They have a hardness of 5 and 30 hp per 5ft section. These sections must be assigned when the illusion is maintained each round and cost 1 hp per round [one hit point to have any real sections, not one per section]. Mobile components of the illusion cannot be given substance in this manner.

Ninth tail [Kyuubi] |All-knowing: the Kitsune becomes able to perceive a great deal. Legend has it that they become all knowing, while in reality, this is more like a highly efficient form of clairvoyance and clairaudience. The Kitsune becomes able to sense things perfectly, without skill checks out to a 1000ft radius. Beyond this, it may make skill checks as if the distance were 1000ft shorter than it actually is.
|In addition, the Kitsune may concentrate on a known point within 100 miles. It loses its local senses and is able to perceive a 300ft radius around the designated point via remote vision and hearing.
|In both these cases, the Kitsune can wave its tail to grant itself the ability to ignore all magical concealment or disguise, including illusions, phantasms, veils and polymorph effects. All creatures appear in their natural form.[/table]

A null level is an idea i've been thinking about for a while; basically, they're just Humanoid HD with no good saves and the creature gains one for every LA they would be forced to have. The major weakness early on is that these HD don't come with any weapon proficiencies unless the race comes with some. Main reason for the bite attack, right there.

InfiniteNothing
2011-03-30, 12:39 AM
Hmm... Well, the base race looks good. Not sure about the tails, though. You'll need someone else to judge those.

Mulletmanalive
2011-03-30, 02:50 PM
Please see the first post; I'm currently working on the MV example critter but i don't really know what to do with the D&D one; it's an oriental character, so it seems like it should be a samurai or ninja or something but all of the homebrew versions of these things are so ridiculously complicated that I really can't be bothered for fathom them.

So here is my challenge, someone who feels up to it, create a level 5-9 character with as concise a stat block as you can make using this race so I can include it in Fae-o-matic thread [with full credit]. Please.

Oh, and call it, if you're going to make it.