Crunch for playing a fallen paladin? (what's fair?)

[Sir_Chivalry]

I have had certain players play paladins before, and a question I find myself asking often is if a player makes a conscious effort to play a fallen paladin (not a blackguard) for the roleplaying challenge of it, how should the penalties of the loss of paladin be compensated? Say a Shadowbane Inquisitor who is a fourth level paladin falls as part of the ongoing plot. The character now cannot turn undead, gain a bonus to saving throws, or smite evil and is not immune to diseases. What is a fair balance, seeing as paladins are not the most versatile class to begin with?

Thank you for the help!

[Cog]

Allow them to use PHBII's retraining rules to convert Paladin levels to Crusader? The fluff even fits - with the loss of their supernatural protections, the fallen paladin is converting their passion into sheer battlefield fervor.

[Seerow]

Allow them to use PHBII's retraining rules to convert Paladin levels to Crusader? The fluff even fits - with the loss of their supernatural protections, the fallen paladin is converting their passion into sheer battlefield fervor.

The Paladin falls and becomes infinitely stronger than he ever was before. Paladins everywhere begin killing small children in an attempt to force themselves to fall.

[Cog]

Paladins everywhere begin killing small children in an attempt to force themselves to fall.
Pff. If they could do that, they were never True Paladins (TM) in the first place.

Besides, if the retraining rules are open anyway, there's no reason falling would be the only way to access them.

[Vangor]

Likely taking a new cause through the Paladin of Freedom, Paladin of Tyranny, or Paladin of Slaughter, with abilities as given to each. "Fallen" to me speaks more than merely not following the code of conduct but more truly breaking this code, else I might suggest a neutral version.


The Paladin falls and becomes infinitely stronger than he ever was before. Paladins everywhere begin killing small children in an attempt to force themselves to fall.

Player to DM: If you let me fall, I shall become more powerful than you had previously imagined for paladins.

[gomipile]

A possible option is Holy Liberator from Complete Divine. Not optimal, but definitely interesting and worthwhile fluffwise, with some okay crunch.

[Thefurmonger]

Say a Shadowbane Inquisitor who is a fourth level paladin falls as part of the ongoing plot.

I had to re-read this a few times.

So... the DM decided that the Pali had to fall due to plot? Hell yes you need to give him something, and if you didn't tell him ahead of time it had better be HUGE.

Thats like "Sorry Mr. Wizard, I have to remove all your spellcasting.... What? Nope you didn't do anything wrong, it has to do with plot, so were good right?.... Put down the knife....."

[Cog]

It's quite possible that the OP meant, 'In the course of the story, the paladin fell'. After all,

...if a player makes a conscious effort to play a fallen paladin...
I don't think we can assume DM dickery here.

[Sir_Chivalry]

It's quite possible that the OP meant, 'In the course of the story, the paladin fell'. After all,

I don't think we can assume DM dickery here.

Indeed this is not DM dickery. I have a player who wants to play a fallen paladin for a short time. Now though Crusader would be good, this also needs to be a secret from the rest of the party, so passive boni would be better than a system overhaul, any ideas?