"Inescapable manacles"

[Cieyrin]

My best effort is to start with a set of adamantine manacles (Dungeonscape 32, 2000 gp, 5 lbs, break DC 52, Escape Artist DC 35, hardness 20, hp 15) with an amazing lock (PHB 126, 150 gp, 1 lb, Open Locks DC 40), get them magically treated (DMG 59, 1500 gp, +20 break DC, x2 Hardness, x2 or +50 hp, whichever's greater), have hardening cast on them at CL 20 (SpC 109, 1250 gp, +10 Hardness) and have arcane lock at CL 20 cast on the lock (PHB 200, 425 gp, can't be picked, +10 break DC).

Final stats: Break DC 82, Escape Artist DC 35, Open Lock DC NO (40 in antimagic area), hardness 50, hp 65, 5325 gp, 6 lbs.

Something else I can do to make these better, as currently the weak point is the Escape Artist check, since they're factory spec.

[begooler]

Perhaps instead of something to increase the Escape Artist DC, they have a way to do DEX damage or inflict a penalty on Escape Artist checks.
(A simple poison could do the DEX damage.)

[dgnslyr]

I think I can top that. What's the Will save for escaping a set of "manacles" made entirely out of attractive, scantily-clad, nubile women?

[arguskos]

There are the Mithral Chains of Woe, from the Wyrms of the North article about Balagos. The stats are spoilered below. They're right about the most difficult to escape from thing basically ever. They lack an Escape Artist DC, but I'd imagine it'd be crazy high.
Mithral Chain of Woe: This ancient, rarely seen item may have been crafted in long-ago Netheril, where they captured, subdued, and controlled (as steeds, digging forces, or beasts of burden) large monsters such as dragons. It consists of two mithral manacles that expand or shrink magically (from 3 inches to a 20-foot interior radius) to pass around a living body or stone spar that they're touched to as a command word is whispered (they do not change size if touched to wood or metal). A second command word causes the manacles to shrink again until they touch something solid -- allowing them, for instance, to be put over a man's head and then shrunk to clasp his neck snugly.
To open a manacle or change its size, the correct command words must be uttered by a creature who is directly touching the manacle to be affected. A heavy mithral chain links the manacles of a mithral chain of woe. The chain itself is 5 inches thick, and it has a hardness of 15, 150 hp, AC 9, and a break DC of 40.
The chain and manacles possess a resistance to both acid and lightning (similar to the protection from elements -- acid and protection from elements -- lightning spells cast at 20th level). As a result, those trying to use either of these elements on the item may find their efforts fruitless and even painful (see below).
A creature that strikes the manacles or chain directly or with any sort of weapon (regardless of its conductivity) suffers the effects of a lightning bolt spell, and such attacks cause no damage to the item (beings imprisoned in the manacles at the time don't suffer this damage). Missile attacks don't harm the launcher, but they also leave the chain unaffected.
Typically a mithral chain of woe is used to tether a powerful being to a stone spar or two beings to each other, usually with the chain between them wrapped around a stone pillar or other anchor. (In such a case the horizontal level of such a chain can be altered if both prisoners work together to shift the arc up or down the pillar, which is why this sort of tether often involves passage of the chain through a hole, or slot too narrow for the prisoners to pass through, between the anchor and either prisoner.)
Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, lightning bolt, protection from elements -- acid, protection from elements -- electricity; Market Price: 150,000 gp; Weight: 50 lb.

[Safety Sword]

I think I can top that. What's the Will save for escaping a set of "manacles" made entirely out of attractive, scantily-clad, nubile women?

No sane (straight) man will want to make that check

[Zaq]

How are you getting the manacles on the creature to begin with? If you can get them to hold still for a minute, some Sovereign Glue should take care of that pesky Escape Artist check. If you're slapping them on in the middle of a pitched battle, not so much, but we take what we can get.

[Epsilon Rose]

There are the Mithral Chains of Woe, from the Wyrms of the North article about Balagos. The stats are spoilered below. They're right about the most difficult to escape from thing basically ever. They lack an Escape Artist DC, but I'd imagine it'd be crazy high.
Mithral Chain of Woe: This ancient, rarely seen item may have been crafted in long-ago Netheril, where they captured, subdued, and controlled (as steeds, digging forces, or beasts of burden) large monsters such as dragons. It consists of two mithral manacles that expand or shrink magically (from 3 inches to a 20-foot interior radius) to pass around a living body or stone spar that they're touched to as a command word is whispered (they do not change size if touched to wood or metal). A second command word causes the manacles to shrink again until they touch something solid -- allowing them, for instance, to be put over a man's head and then shrunk to clasp his neck snugly.
To open a manacle or change its size, the correct command words must be uttered by a creature who is directly touching the manacle to be affected. A heavy mithral chain links the manacles of a mithral chain of woe. The chain itself is 5 inches thick, and it has a hardness of 15, 150 hp, AC 9, and a break DC of 40.
The chain and manacles possess a resistance to both acid and lightning (similar to the protection from elements -- acid and protection from elements -- lightning spells cast at 20th level). As a result, those trying to use either of these elements on the item may find their efforts fruitless and even painful (see below).
A creature that strikes the manacles or chain directly or with any sort of weapon (regardless of its conductivity) suffers the effects of a lightning bolt spell, and such attacks cause no damage to the item (beings imprisoned in the manacles at the time don't suffer this damage). Missile attacks don't harm the launcher, but they also leave the chain unaffected.
Typically a mithral chain of woe is used to tether a powerful being to a stone spar or two beings to each other, usually with the chain between them wrapped around a stone pillar or other anchor. (In such a case the horizontal level of such a chain can be altered if both prisoners work together to shift the arc up or down the pillar, which is why this sort of tether often involves passage of the chain through a hole, or slot too narrow for the prisoners to pass through, between the anchor and either prisoner.)
Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, lightning bolt, protection from elements -- acid, protection from elements -- electricity; Market Price: 150,000 gp; Weight: 50 lb.

There is a GLARING flaw with those manacles. They're locked with a command word and if the captive is conscious he's going to here it and even if he doesn't I'm fairly certain you can use UMD to fake command words. Also Also, as per usual force and disintegrate work just fine.

As for an actual suggestion, if prisoner cruelty isn't an issue I recommend manacles that deal constant sub-dual damage. It's very hard to escape when horribly unconscious. If movements required engineer the manacles to leave them just barely conscious and if opened (even properly) physically (read by mundane means) do 1 or 2 damage knocking them out.

[Ashram]

Hmm... Maybe have manacles that inflict a Lesser Shivering Touch on the prisoner at your command? 1d6 Dex damage for a 1st level spell, doable as many times as you're willing to pay for. I'd obviously try and get it to be a mental command.

As much as I love Shivering Touch, if you're gonna have manacles that do 3d6 Dex damage for a 3rd level spell, you might as well skip the manacles and just Shivering Touch someone. :smallbiggrin:

[Andion Isurand]

You should make them out of Obdurium from the Stronghold Builder's Handbook.
(30 hardness and 60 HP per inch if I remember right)

get them them Dwarvencraft for +2 hardness and +10 HP/inch

...from someone with the Great Crafter 1st level only feat (Dragon 318) for another +2 hardness and +10 HP/inch

then get a psion with matter manipulation for +5 hardness and +15 HP/inch

[GeekGirl]

I think I can top that. What's the Will save for escaping a set of "manacles" made entirely out of attractive, scantily-clad, nubile women?
As fun as these binding sound, they shall not hold me!! ^_^

well maybe for a little while :P

So what exactly are you trying to hold with these "Inescapable Manacles"?

[Slipperychicken]

Mithral Chain of Woe: This ancient, rarely seen item may have been crafted in long-ago Netheril, where they captured, subdued, and controlled (as steeds, digging forces, or beasts of burden) large monsters such as dragons. It consists of two mithral manacles that expand or shrink magically (from 3 inches to a 20-foot interior radius) to pass around a living body or stone spar that they're touched to as a command word is whispered (they do not change size if touched to wood or metal). A second command word causes the manacles to shrink again until they touch something solid -- allowing them, for instance, to be put over a man's head and then shrunk to clasp his neck snugly.
To open a manacle or change its size, the correct command words must be uttered by a creature who is directly touching the manacle to be affected. A heavy mithral chain links the manacles of a mithral chain of woe. The chain itself is 5 inches thick, and it has a hardness of 15, 150 hp, AC 9, and a break DC of 40.
The chain and manacles possess a resistance to both acid and lightning (similar to the protection from elements -- acid and protection from elements -- lightning spells cast at 20th level). As a result, those trying to use either of these elements on the item may find their efforts fruitless and even painful (see below).
A creature that strikes the manacles or chain directly or with any sort of weapon (regardless of its conductivity) suffers the effects of a lightning bolt spell, and such attacks cause no damage to the item (beings imprisoned in the manacles at the time don't suffer this damage). Missile attacks don't harm the launcher, but they also leave the chain unaffected.
Typically a mithral chain of woe is used to tether a powerful being to a stone spar or two beings to each other, usually with the chain between them wrapped around a stone pillar or other anchor. (In such a case the horizontal level of such a chain can be altered if both prisoners work together to shift the arc up or down the pillar, which is why this sort of tether often involves passage of the chain through a hole, or slot too narrow for the prisoners to pass through, between the anchor and either prisoner.)
Caster Level: 20th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, lightning bolt, protection from elements -- acid, protection from elements -- electricity; Market Price: 150,000 gp; Weight: 50 lb.

Since the shrinking/growing is a command word, any Wildshape (or similar transformation/shrinkage) might get you out before the captor can take whatever action the command words are (swift?).

If you want them to be truly Inescapable, one idea is have some ridonkulous mundane preparations like the ones mentioned, make it project an AMF (don't know rules about that, whether it's possible or not to have an item of AMF).

Also, if you can find some way to deal continuous nonlethal damage (ideally mundane, like squeezing really hard, perhaps?), keeping your prisoner unconscious can do wonders for preventing escape.

Sinister Idea: have the gauntlets mimic the effects of Aboleth Mucus (or apply/inject a dose every 3h or so), and make them so they let the captive breathe air or something. Tell your captive that, even if he does escape, he'll have to deal with not breathing for 3 hours. Bonus points if the only bodies of water for 30min are sewers or something similarly humiliating.

[Jarian]

Aren't there a pair of manacles in the MiC that subject the wearer to a field of antimagic?

Might be worth a slightly lower overall array of DCs if every magic means ever for escaping is turned off.

[hivedragon]

IMO the best way to contain/transport competent captives is with a wand of flesh to stone

[only1doug]

My best effort is to start with a set of adamantine manacles (Dungeonscape 32, 2000 gp, 5 lbs, break DC 52, Escape Artist DC 35, hardness 20, hp 15) with an amazing lock (PHB 126, 150 gp, 1 lb, Open Locks DC 40), get them magically treated (DMG 59, 1500 gp, +20 break DC, x2 Hardness, x2 or +50 hp, whichever's greater), have hardening cast on them at CL 20 (SpC 109, 1250 gp, +10 Hardness) and have arcane lock at CL 20 cast on the lock (PHB 200, 425 gp, can't be picked, +10 break DC).

Final stats: Break DC 82, Escape Artist DC 35, Open Lock DC NO (40 in antimagic area), hardness 50, hp 65, 5325 gp, 6 lbs.

Something else I can do to make these better, as currently the weak point is the Escape Artist check, since they're factory spec.

make them a cursed magic item that reduce dexterity, now they'll need a remove curse to attempt to remove them and the dex reduction will still apply until the handcuffs are removed.

[Ernir]

Aren't there a pair of manacles in the MiC that subject the wearer to a field of antimagic?

Might be worth a slightly lower overall array of DCs if every magic means ever for escaping is turned off.

There's Shackles of Silence in the MIC, which can have a very similar effect.

There are actual Antimagic Shackles in the BoED, too. Don't think they were reprinted in the MIC.

[cfalcon]

You can UMD a command word, but you'd assume that it would be one of the harder to guess ones- after all, normally command words are meant to be triggers, but here is one that is meant to be a key. Presumably it would suffer very large penalties to "activate blindly".

If you hear someone give the "lock" command words, that doesn't mean you know the "unlock" command words, however.

Also my favorite for transporting of prisoners was when the party took on a higher level rogue and wizard, brother and sister. When they finally subdued them, stripped them down, tied them up, and carried them each in a sack. So each of the muscle characters just had a sack full of naked tied up bad guy, until they found their way back to town.

[only1doug]

Also my favorite for transporting of prisoners was when the party took on a higher level rogue and wizard, brother and sister. When they finally subdued them, stripped them down, tied them up, and carried them each in a sack. So each of the muscle characters just had a sack full of naked tied up bad guy, until they found their way back to town.

I'd guess you were lucky that the rogue didn't have escape artist skill then, because getting out of a sack is what escape artist is for.

[Skaven]

Honestly I don't think any item of this kind should ever lack an escape artist DC.

Its what the skill is for, and its a big slap in the face of characters that invested heavily in the skill. You may find yourself manacled maybe once or twice in an entire rogue characters lifespan, and to just get told 'no' after investing 15 skill points would be highly frustrating.

[VirOath]

You can UMD a command word, but you'd assume that it would be one of the harder to guess ones- after all, normally command words are meant to be triggers, but here is one that is meant to be a key. Presumably it would suffer very large penalties to "activate blindly".

A command word is a command word, doesn't change anything about it. UMD is about tricking magic itself, it's trained only and anyone can just guess command words. It's literally using your own force of personality to press and mold a magic item rather than blindly poking about.

It also requires a larger investment than most skills just to do anything with it. And if you already blindly activated an item, you still don't know the command word for it, it only lowers the DC by 2.

Doing otherwise is DM fiat to negate a character investment to make a check hard or impossible. When you build a character to literally be awesome at something and find yourself with a mass produced magic item (IE, anything not an artifact) that uses a command word and you are told that you can't make the check, it sucks and feels as though you've just been robbed.

If you don't like the way UMD works, be up front and change it, or ban it. Don't blindside your players.

But aside from the AMF manacles, everything mentioned here can be defeated by a stilled, silent Knock spell. And yes, even in a wand.

[ooknabah]

Isn't this what "Imprisonment" is for?

[VirOath]

Well, since you are talking about 9th level spells now, craft contingent Freedom.

At the level that Imprisonment is an option, the situation isn't one that comes up. There is little reason for it, as there are options for almost every reason why you would want to hold a person. Domination is option long before Imprisonment.

[Jack_Simth]

Step 1: Make sure the prisoner is unconscious before you start.
Step 2: Remove everything that could potentially be used for magic from the prisoner.
Step 3: Slap a Necklace of Adaptation and a Ring of Sustenance on the prisoner.
Step 4: Put the prisoner in a Portable Hole.
Step 5: Cast Forbiddance inside the portable hole.
Step 6: Close the portable hole.

He's now on another plane, that is immune to dimensional travel, and has the only actual entrance closed. Unless he can dispel the forbiddance (or can Plane shift... with no components... and has SR...), he's stuck. No spell above 5th level required.

[ooknabah]

Well, since you are talking about 9th level spells now, craft contingent Freedom.

At the level that Imprisonment is an option, the situation isn't one that comes up. There is little reason for it, as there are options for almost every reason why you would want to hold a person. Domination is option long before Imprisonment.

At the great expense you would be putting into the creation of this miracle manacles, hiring a Wizard to cast Imprisonment or trying to cast it off a scroll would be a pretty economical answer that is available well before you could cast it yourself.

[Cieyrin]

So what exactly are you trying to hold with these "Inescapable Manacles"?

I suppose it's my fault for not being more specific in their intended usage, as, given I just finished watching Tales of Symphonia: Tethe'alla, I was interested in looking into making an expy of Regal (with a shirt that's actually a shirt. I understand getting around the manacles requires a different type of clothing but, really, he could have done well with a modified Hawaiian shirt).

As such, since Regal was made of money at an earlier part of his life, he could afford to get some manacles that he was less likely to bust out of if he changed his mind about his self-imposed sentence. Basically, the manacles are for a willing prisoner, so I'm looking for methods of improving the manacles in a way that keeps them on him but doesn't utterly cripple him so that's he's unplayable.

Andion Isurand's post gave me more in the way of what I'm looking for, though I still lack a method of improving Escape Artist that doesn't involve setting Dex to 0 and leaving the character perpetually paralyzed. :smallannoyed:

[VirOath]

At the great expense you would be putting into the creation of this miracle manacles, hiring a Wizard to cast Imprisonment or trying to cast it off a scroll would be a pretty economical answer that is available well before you could cast it yourself.

And that's assuming there is just a wizard of 17th level to hire to do that.

And if that's the answer, Hire A Wizard is the answer to everything. And it's bad enough that that statement is a claimed balance between Wizards and Fighters.

[only1doug]

As such, since Regal was made of money at an earlier part of his life, he could afford to get some manacles that he was less likely to bust out of if he changed his mind about his self-imposed sentence. Basically, the manacles are for a willing prisoner, so I'm looking for methods of improving the manacles in a way that keeps them on him but doesn't utterly cripple him so that's he's unplayable.



make them a cursed magic item that reduce dexterity, now they'll need a remove curse to attempt to remove them and the dex reduction will still apply until the handcuffs are removed.

Cursed Manacles of inescapability.... -20 to escape artist but only for the purpose of removing the manacles.... (and remove curse required or manacles cannot be removed if originally put on of own free will)

These manacles were originally the property of Houdi Harrini a famous performer who wowed his audiences with his escapology tricks. The manacles originally gave a +20 to escape artist checks to remove them but an angry wizard cursed them to the opposite function causing Houdi to drown when he failed to escape in time.

[Cieyrin]

Cursed Manacles of inescapability.... -20 to escape artist but only for the purpose of removing the manacles.... (and remove curse required or manacles cannot be removed if originally put on of own free will)

These manacles were originally the property of Houdi Harrini a famous performer who wowed his audiences with his escapology tricks. The manacles originally gave a +20 to escape artist checks to remove them but an angry wizard cursed them to the opposite function causing Houdi to drown when he failed to escape in time.

Hmm, neat idea. I may use that.