Villain Weapon Idea

[Major]

Alright, so I'm working on creating a recurring villain for a low magic campaign. In fact, magic is illegal so most mages are hunted and wanted killed by the enemy.

Anyways, while working on an adventure for the players (mostly new so I go easy on them a lot while they learn), I created a bad guy that I had a lot of fun making and working on the backstory.

Now then, he's going to be using the Magic of Incarnum system mainly for fluff and the fun of someone being able to just create and alter magic to boost themself I found a fun, average level power, to sick on them.

However, I'm trying to figure out what weapon I want this guy to have. He'll be an Evil Incarnate and while Incarnate Weapon gives a flail, I dislike that choice. It doesn't scream evil badass imo.

So, using DM rights I want to change that weapon, however I can't think of any cool weapons that seem evil and badass that are one handed and I don't want to overpower this weapon. So I need something cool, that is on the same powerlevel as the flail.

[ShriekingDrake]

The morning star is pretty imposing . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSNPeJAgBzo

[Gorgondantess]

The morning star is pretty imposing . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSNPeJAgBzo

Actually, that is a flail. Morningstars are poles with spiked pieces of metal at the end, flails are a handle+chain+piece of metal at the end.
Anyways, what is not badass or imposing about a flail? It's a huge spiked metal ball at the end of a chain. Probably the most gruesome weapon I can think of.

[ShriekingDrake]

The morning star flail is pretty imposing . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSNPeJAgBzo

Like I said, the morn--ahem--FLAIL really is quite imposing.

[Major]

I don't know. I guess a big one is scary, but it just didn't seem very evil badass in my mind. I might keep it. I just find it simple a ball on a chain that you are spinning around.

Sure, it is a spiked ball, but most the time you are holding a tiny little wooden handle with a chain and ball...

Given, if I'm the only one who doesn't find a flail scary I might use it just because the other party members are probably in the majority and I'm a minority.

[Thurbane]

http://oi56.tinypic.com/25jxusg.jpg

Looks pretty badass to me. Heck, if a flail is good enough for Yeenoghu...

[HappyBlanket]

It's a heavy metal wrecking ball that can crumple your armor and splinter your bones upon impact.
It's covered in SPIKES of all things, and on every strike you're being impaled by at least two of the things, or if you're lucky just gutted by the lot of them.
And it's attached to a chain. A chain is the most badass part of a weapon this side of a nunchuk.

...Granted the flails in d&d aren't stat'd to be nearly as epic (epic...flail?) as that, but I'm not very familiar with the Incarnum; if an Incarnum's flail has different stats than the one in the PHB, you can probably fluff some more imposing spikes on it. Get your villain to swing around a heavy metal wrecking ball covered in scythes, or barbed wire, or what have you. Describe a more generous chain too, since that alone makes a weapon pretty intimidating.

[Major]

Alright, I'll keep it as a flail. Thanks everyone. I suppose its all the description and how one looks at it.

[Xuc Xac]

Flails aren't scary?


http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs23/f/2007/341/c/d/Witch_King_of_Angmar_by_Francisgenois.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/lotr/images/0/0e/X2757z.jpg
http://padawanjenn.tripod.com/LotR/rotk/witchking2_lrg.jpg

[HalfDragonCube]

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs23/f/2007/341/c/d/Witch_King_of_Angmar_by_Francisgenois.jpg


Well... There it just makes me wonder which way gravity is pointing in that picture.:smallconfused:

Seriously, either the chain is bent to look like that or he's just about to smack himself in the stomach.:smallamused:

[nyarlathotep]

Alright, I'll keep it as a flail. Thanks everyone. I suppose its all the description and how one looks at it.

If you want him to be on a slightly higher power level you could make it a meteor hammer.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well... There it just makes me wonder which way gravity is pointing in that picture.:smallconfused:

Seriously, either the chain is bent to look like that or he's just about to smack himself in the stomach.:smallamused:

He seems to be wielding it like a whip.... :smallconfused:

[Dr.Epic]

Actually, that is a flail. Morningstars are poles with spiked pieces of metal at the end, flails are a handle+chain+piece of metal at the end.
Anyways, what is not badass or imposing about a flail? It's a huge spiked metal ball at the end of a chain. Probably the most gruesome weapon I can think of.

Yeap, that's a flail because it flails around. So long as you don't give him a 7 foot samurai sword you should be fine. Maybe an axe in case he has to axe someone a question.

[HappyBlanket]

I know the consensus is pretty solid here, but I must ask a question. I was meaning to include it in my last post, but I decided against it.

Question is: Now, after seeing us all comment and agree on the flail being an intimidating and badass weapon... How many of us have ever actually played a character using a flail? Or ever included an important villain who used the weapon?

I ask because, despite viewing the flail as an awesome weapon in reflection, I have never expressed that opinion before. Even now, I find the inclusion of it requires a generous amount of fluffing that other weapons like swords and halberds don't require.

I may be wrong, but I think it's just because...
I'm putting my theory in spoilers, since it doesn't seem like the real reason. I think it's worth at least posting to anybody interested. because there's rarely any incentive to use it (the flail). When we want heroic (read: plot important) characters (or generic characters, ironically), we give them swords. When we want crude characters, we give them axes and maces. When we want cool characters, we give them chains or pole arms.
But a flail doesn't really fit in with any of those archetypes. The heavy spiked ball would suggest a brute, but the chain (especially a long one) suggests someone with finesse. That's not a common archetype.
...Again, stressing that I'm likely wrong.
edit: Wrong, in that this isn't the reason. Not about the flail being an underused weapon.

[Major]

Huh, that is a VERY interesting theory. It's also probably the reason I wasn't connecting with the flail because of the lack of an archtype.

[Thurbane]

I've used a heavy flail in a Power Attack/Improved Trip build...mainly because I didn't want to blow a feat on Spiked Chain.

[HappyBlanket]

But that's just for mechanical reasons, isn't it?

[Sir_Chivalry]

I know the consensus is pretty solid here, but I must ask a question. I was meaning to include it in my last post, but I decided against it.

Question is: Now, after seeing us all comment and agree on the flail being an intimidating and badass weapon... How many of us have ever actually played a character using a flail? Or ever included an important villain who used the weapon?

I ask because, despite viewing the flail as an awesome weapon in reflection, I have never expressed that opinion before. Even now, I find the inclusion of it requires a generous amount of fluffing that other weapons like swords and halberds don't require.

I may be wrong, but I think it's just because...
I'm putting my theory in spoilers, since it doesn't seem like the real reason. I think it's worth at least posting to anybody interested. because there's rarely any incentive to use it (the flail). When we want heroic (read: plot important) characters (or generic characters, ironically), we give them swords. When we want crude characters, we give them axes and maces. When we want cool characters, we give them chains or pole arms.
But a flail doesn't really fit in with any of those archetypes. The heavy spiked ball would suggest a brute, but the chain (especially a long one) suggests someone with finesse. That's not a common archetype.
...Again, stressing that I'm likely wrong.
edit: Wrong, in that this isn't the reason. Not about the flail being an underused weapon.

The soldiers of the God-King in a purely warrior based game I ran used flails as weapons for the reasons stated here. They're scary, they cause a lot of damage, and the PHB tells me I can trip and disarm with them, cool beans. Now they were mooks, but it was interesting when the party couldn't easily loot them for replacement weapons (no one wanted a flail)

I also created a "person-retriever" in my ongoing weekly game. He works for a crime boss and runs down runaway prostitutes and slaves from the black market. He dual wields flails. Why? Because when one scary flail won't do, use two! His boss also uses a two-handed flail.

[Turok117]

Why don't you have the metal parts made out of iron, except this iron has been collected by draining the blood of innocents and the iron then extracted.

Yes, that would require a lot of people. That's why it's so evil :P

[Sir_Chivalry]

Why don't you have the metal parts made out of iron, except this iron has been collected by draining the blood of innocents and the iron then extracted.

Yes, that would require a lot of people. That's why it's so evil :P

That's unbelievably silly and would never work. I am now going to do it in my games!

[Beelzebub1111]

I always thought flails were awesome and badass. the mechanical advantages for tripping and disarming are just a perk.

[Major]

That's unbelievably silly and would never work. I am now going to do it in my games!


Same >:D

Except since it is a soulmeld it'd be made with soul energy. Darn he sucked out souls to make his weapon :P

[Xuc Xac]

Why don't you have the metal parts made out of iron, except this iron has been collected by draining the blood of innocents and the iron then extracted.

Yes, that would require a lot of people. That's why it's so evil :P

I did the math on this once because I wanted to know how many people you would need to make a sword from the iron in their hemoglobin. You can get about 1-2 grams of metallic iron from each person depending on how big they are and how much you squeeze them. Estimate about 1 gram per person if you just drain their blood and 2 grams if you run them through a rendering plant. For a single 3.5 pound long sword, you would need to drain the blood from 1600 to 3000 people. If you converted the blood in small batches and spaced it out over time, you could actually use donations from living people. Imagine a holy sword that was made from the blood collected over many years from the annual "blood oath" ceremony of an order of paladins.

[Sacrieur]

Keen mercurial greatsword with improved crit anyone?

[Safety Sword]

Imagine an unholy sword that was made from the blood of innocents collected over many years from the annual "blood bath" ceremony of an order of blackguards.

Fixed? OK, so my message was short... sue me server!

[Xuc Xac]

No, because that was already the default assumption.

[Safety Sword]

No, because that was already the default assumption.

You think the default assumption was an order of blackguards who ride out once every 13 years to wipe out entire villages until they have the blood required to create an unholy blade?

[Major]

Honestly I liked the evil sword killing idea much better than the blood donation one :P But that's just cause it's awesome.

The "fix'd" made me very happy.

[Safety Sword]

Honestly I liked the evil sword killing idea much better than the blood donation one :P But that's just cause it's awesome.

The "fix'd" made me very happy.

It's just how I'd do it :smallwink:

[Xuc Xac]

You think the default assumption was an order of blackguards who ride out once every 13 years to wipe out entire villages until they have the blood required to create an unholy blade?

Did you not see the post that brought up the blood iron in the first place?


Why don't you have the metal parts made out of iron, except this iron has been collected by draining the blood of innocents and the iron then extracted.

Yes, that would require a lot of people. That's why it's so evil :P

It seems that everyone would automatically go "making iron weapons from blood is EVIL!" That's why I thought a bunch of paladins doing it would be a subversion of the idea.

[Xuc Xac]

You think the default assumption was an order of blackguards who ride out once every 13 years to wipe out entire villages until they have the blood required to create an unholy blade?

Did you not see the post that brought up the blood iron in the first place?


Why don't you have the metal parts made out of iron, except this iron has been collected by draining the blood of innocents and the iron then extracted.

Yes, that would require a lot of people. That's why it's so evil :P

It seems that everyone would automatically go "making iron weapons from blood is EVIL!" That's why I thought a bunch of paladins doing it would be a subversion of the idea.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Would a weapon like this do vile damage considering the way it was crafted?


(P.S. 'Villain' in the title is misspelled)

[Major]

I saw the original comment on it and even posted that I liked the idea. However, the "fix'd" when he flipped it made it funny.

Edit: Villain? That is the...ohhh opps. *corrects&

[big teej]

at the risk of having been ninja'd

I'd like to suggest the morningstar carried by the bugbear. (artwork in MM)

that thing certainly looks scary to my players :smallbiggrin:

[HappyBlanket]

I like the idea of paladins make a sword of blood :o
It's not like blood is inherently evil. The paladin sword is fantastic because it represents a great amount of devotion over several ages. The blackguard sword is evil because it represents a great amount of bloody murder.

edit: In retrospect, damn this is off topic.

[Spiryt]

Lol, this topic had gone to serious WTH quickly... :smalleek::smalltongue:


Anyway, if someone is going to make sword out of blood iron, he can as well make super evil "100 % human content" sword....

Iron from blood, carbon for making it steel and for forge fires, bone and possibly leather for handle....

:smalltongue:

[ClockShock]

Use a shotgun. Flailing that: grenades.

Evil villains cheat, right?

If you're not yet sold on the silly flails, a decent mace or hammer might do the job. Make it nicely crafted and it's a flail without the string.