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Amoren
2011-03-26, 10:42 PM
So, I just want to get a quick glance over for this character I'm making and was looking for anyone to glance over it to see if there's something they could do to improve it or fix something I have over looked. A note, the campaign is only allowing base classes and races from the PHB, but prestige classes, feats, and alternate class features are allowable from any WotC book (or at least, with DM approval). And a personal note, I'm looking for a rogue flavored assassin, not a wizard/cleric or whatever base class leading into an Assassin, thanks. :D

Current Build: Human Rogue 3/Hit and Run Fighter 2/Assassin 2, next level picking up Telflammar Shadowlord, and after finishing that filling off the rest of the levels with Assassin.
Template: Shadow-Walker (bought off at level 3 for 3,000 xp)

Stats: Str 12, Dex 21 (17 base, +2 Shadow-Walker, +2 for leveling at 4 and 8), Con 14 (16 -2 from Shadow-Walker), Int 18, Wis 16, Cha 15

Feats: Blind-Fight, Able Learner, Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Spring-Attack

Alternate Class Features:
Penetrating Strike (lose trap sense, gain half sneak attack die against creatures immune to sneak attack while flanking).
Hit and Run Warrior (lose tower and heavy armor proficiency, gain +2 Initiative and deal dexterity bonus as damage when striking flat footed targets)

Spell-Like Abilities: Shadow Mask 3/day, Dimension Door 2/day. Darkness 3/day (all from Shadow-Walker, caster level equal to character level)

Skill Ranks: Balance 5, Bluff 10, Disable Device 10, Disguise 4, Hide 10, Jump 5, Listen 5, Move Silently 10, Open Lock 6, Search 10, Sleight of Hand 10, Spot 5, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 10

Equipment (27,000 starting gold)

+2 Rapier (8,000g)
+1 Mithril Chainshirt (2,000g)
Chronocharms of the Laughing Rogue and Horizon Walker (1,000g total)
Bracers of Murder (8,000g)
Boots of Elven Kind and Dexterity +2 (6,500g)
Master Work Hidden Sleeve Blade (hidden in left arm, used for Death Attack)
Master Work Buckler
Traveler's Cloak with two hidden pockets
Master Work Thieve's Tools (kept in hidden pocket)

This leaves roughly 500g to spend on items, which I'm unsure of what to get (although a wand of cure light wounds would be nice, but I'm a bit short for that). In the future I plan to get a Sleeve Blade with the Assassin Dagger enchantments to aide with his death attacks, but that's 8,000g down the line.

Ernir
2011-03-27, 12:00 AM
A weakness of your is your inability to deal with stuff that flies. At least pack a ranged weapon. There will be times when you won't be able to get into melee with everything you wish to eviscerate. My thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851) has a few cheap-ish solutions to your lack of flight, too.

Are you playing this in a party of full casters? If so, I'd skip the +2 rapier and beg them to cast Greater Magic Weapon on it instead, starting at next level (caster level 8 = +2 weapons). Cheaper in the long run.

You can get the Mobility feat as an armor enhancement (MIC 13).
What are you doing with the Able Learner feat?
Are you aware of the Craven feat, from Champions of Ruin? It has nasty drawbacks, but it does great things to your damage output.

Find more stuff with the [Teleportation] descriptor. Shadow Pounce is very good, and you want more uses of it.

Here's a recent thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187477) on a similar subject. Note the 5th post in particular, much of the advice there should apply.

Amoren
2011-03-27, 12:51 AM
Able Learner was mostly to allow me to increase disable device and other rogue skills through the fighter levels, as well as the Telflammar levels (since Shadowlords don't get disable device as a class skill). I could probably go without it and take another feat, or give up the extra skill points to go halfling for the small size and dex bonus, but that's iffy since I'm a fan of skills.

I don't consider Mobility as an armor enhancement to count for feat and class prerequisites, and my DM's the type that he probably won't allow it either.

Yes, I'm aware of Craven, and in the original design of the build (planning on going without Shadow-Walker and picking up 7 levels of Assassin to cast Dimension Door before picking up Shadow-Lord, I had two-weapon fighting and Craven by this level). However, upon deciding that Shadow-Walker was all sorts of awesome for the sheer fact of its large list of SLA's for a cost of 3,000xp, I decided to pick it up and take Shadow-Lord at level 8, which meant getting Blind-Fight, and the Spring Attack feat chain by level seven. As it is, I'm probably going to pick it up at level 9, then start investing in the TWF feats at level 12, and getting Darkstalker somewhere after that (although I would love to get it earlier).

And I'm unsure of what the party will be right now. As it stands, we've got two people in the party (a level 8 fighter and a level 8 fallen paladin). I believe one person joining us is planning on going Wizard/Nightmare Spinner, so I may be able to talk him into casting Greater Magic Weapon, but he'll have to have an Extend Metamagic Rod or the feat to have it last all day.

A good note about the lack of range weapons, usually I have my rogue characters possess a large amount of daggers to use on their person. However, a crossbow of some type would probably help and fit into the Assassin flavor I'm going for.

Sacrieur
2011-03-27, 02:45 AM
I look at this and think Batman.

Amoren
2011-03-27, 04:22 AM
Quick question, what are everyone's opinion on Boots of Striding and Springing (+10ft movement speed, +5 jump) vs. Boots of Elven Grace (+5 move silently)? If I was going a halfling I'd probably definitely get the movement speed to bring myself back to average, since there would be a racial bonus to move silently anyway. Of course, I just can't get into the image of a halfling assassin as much as I can a human one (if only because I can imagine a lot of cool sleeve blade death attacks), so I'm leaning to sticking human.

And I'm also leaning towards sticking with a +1 Rapier instead of the +2. 4,000g for a plus one to hit and damage might... not be worth it at this point. Especially since there's a lot of items I can get with that gold that would be very useful (such as a Handy Haversack for item storage and quick potion retrieval, and have another 2k gold ready for other stuff).

Warlawk
2011-03-27, 02:06 PM
Quick question, what are everyone's opinion on Boots of Striding and Springing (+10ft movement speed, +5 jump) vs. Boots of Elven Grace (+5 move silently)? If I was going a halfling I'd probably definitely get the movement speed to bring myself back to average, since there would be a racial bonus to move silently anyway. Of course, I just can't get into the image of a halfling assassin as much as I can a human one (if only because I can imagine a lot of cool sleeve blade death attacks), so I'm leaning to sticking human.

And I'm also leaning towards sticking with a +1 Rapier instead of the +2. 4,000g for a plus one to hit and damage might... not be worth it at this point. Especially since there's a lot of items I can get with that gold that would be very useful (such as a Handy Haversack for item storage and quick potion retrieval, and have another 2k gold ready for other stuff).

I would go with the springing and striding instead of the elven boots. Even if you aren't a halfling, the extra movement will always be nice while the extra move silent is nice, it's something you're already going to be focusing on. I would also go with a +1 weapon for now and use the extra cash for other nice utility items. +1 ab/damage is just not that big a deal when you're on a tight budget.

One thing to remember about a Halfling assassin... there are a lot of very vulnerable points at the ankles, knees and especially the groin and upper thighs. Because of the mobility required in those joints armor tends to be a bit weak there (No mechanical effect obviously, but something you can play up in RP). Strongheart halflings tend more toward human-ish tenancies than the usual stereotypes you see for halfings, they don't buy into the whole "little people" gimmick and will probably mess you up for talking down to them... they might need a stepladder to get in your face about it, but that damn sure won't stop them.

I'm actually working on a strongheart rogue/swashbuckler/assassin (Well, avenger really since I'm not being evil) that will be coming into our game in the next session or two. I really kinda dig their fluff in the Forgotten Realms. Very nomadic, yet they maintain a lot of communities. They keep about 1/3 of the homes in a community available at any given time so that new people can just move in and start living there. When someone leaves it is kind of a community event and everyone helps clean the place up and makes a party of it etc, then the house is there for someone else to move into.

Amoren
2011-03-31, 02:48 AM
Well, I've had to abandon this character. The DM was fine with Telflammar Shadowlord but thought that the Shadow-Walker template was overpowered since it gave spell-like abilities through all 20 levels, and while I did sent him an email to try and change his mind I wasn't going to argue with his decision after that (and since I haven't gotten a response, I assume his decision stands). So, since I didn't really want to 'waste' four feats on a class I can't even use for five more levels, I've decided to create a different character.

So I guess I'm looking for two things from this thread now. A) How would someone optimize my above suggestion? The one thing I hated about it was how his skill points were stretched so thin, especially since I had a really nice idea to have him have ranks in profession (art) and to have him sketch/draw his assassination targets. A way to get feats without fighter levels might work as well, but eh.

And B) Suggestions/advice for my new character. He's a strongheart halfling with the same stat array as the assassin (with racial adjustments, Str 10, Dex 21, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 16), with the planned build being Rogue 4/Fighter 1/Invisible Blade 3.

The main gimmick being Invisible Blade's free action feint combined with the Surprising Riposte feat (making a target flat footed for the round after being struck after a feint, as well as Hit and Run fighter ACF). I've asked the DM in the email to see if A) the fixed feats for Invisible Blade can be used (Far Shot and Point Blank Shot being replaced with Weapon Finesse and Two-Weapon Fighting), and if B) Uncanny Feint can fulfill the prerequisites for Improved Feint for Surprising Riposte.

I think he'll allow the first case, but I'm not sure on the second. If so, I'll probably take a second fighter level after the Invisible Blade levels to help fulfill the Combat Expertise/Imp. Feint requirements... It'll mean I'll have to push back getting Darkstalker and Imp. TWF however.

And of course if he disallows both cases, how would YOU guys create a totally awesome, bad ass rogue who's got some nice skill emphasis? With the rules of base PHB I classes and races, no templates, feats and prestige classes from WotC books (assuming DM ok)? He doesn't need to be a combat powerhouse, but I would like him to be able to do well enough and contribute. After all, if I'm not allowed to go with the ideas I found flavorly pleasing, I may as well be a bad ass and work from there. :D

Edit: I should smack myself over the head with a base ball bat. I totally forgot I could just go with Confound the Big Folk and have pretty much everything that'll be a huge threat be flat footed against my attacks... Still, wouldn't work against medium sized creatures unless I could get a shrink spell.