Rules clarification: Moving and charging

[NNescio]

Moving and charging on the same turn is illegal in 3.5e right?


Charging is a special full-round action...

...If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

Or did I miss anything?

[Gnoman]

You are correct.

[NNescio]

You are correct.

Is there anything else that I can use as further proof? I'm currently disputing this point with my DM.

[Veyr]

Charging is a full-round action, defined as both a move action and a standard action. In order to charge, you must use both. If you've used both, you do not (typically) have another move action with which to move (aside from the motion inherent in the charge).

The partial charge thing very clearly states that you cannot do it unless for some reason you started a turn without both the move and standard action. Having used one or the other does not allow you to use that option. Surprise rounds and the staggered or nauseated conditions would be situations where that rule applies.

A use of Travel Devotion could allow you to move and charge in the same round, since it gives you another move action. So could a use of a Belt of Battle.

[lokoone]

and this:

Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

at least its twice the speed.

[Firechanter]

There are plenty of ways to move and then charge on the same turn; Belt of Battle has been mentioned. There are various maneuvers in the Tome of Battle that give you either an extra move action as a swift action, or simply allow you a standard action charge. The latter is a lowlevel Stone Dragon maneuver, Minotaur-somethingsomething, which is easily attainable via feat or item.

[NNescio]

There are plenty of ways to move and then charge on the same turn; Belt of Battle has been mentioned. There are various maneuvers in the Tome of Battle that give you either an extra move action as a swift action, or simply allow you a standard action charge. The latter is a lowlevel Stone Dragon maneuver, Minotaur-somethingsomething, which is easily attainable via feat or item.

Charging Minotaur? Initiation Action: 1 full round action though.

Edit: Flipped through the MIC and found the Boots of the Battle Charger. 2/day, allows charging as a standard action, activated by a swift action. This seems to be a very clear RAI indication that move+charge is illegal, otherwise this function would be obsolete.

(Notwithstanding that RAW is already very explicit, but RAW can also lead to other potentially illogical inconsistencies, which is why I wanted additional proof.)

[Firechanter]

I guess I mixed something up there, then. Not Charging Minotaur. I could have sworn there was a standard action charge maneuver in that book, but atm I can't find it.
Either way, there are others: Sudden Leap, Bounding Assault, Quicksilver Motion, Shadow Blink... all allow you to bring yourself into position and then launch a charge in some way or other.

[NNescio]

I guess I mixed something up there, then. Not Charging Minotaur. I could have sworn there was a standard action charge maneuver in that book, but atm I can't find it.
Either way, there are others: Sudden Leap, Bounding Assault, Quicksilver Motion, Shadow Blink... all allow you to bring yourself into position and then launch a charge in some way or other.

Most of the "Charge" moves in the ToB require a full-round action to initiate. On the other hand, this seems like another RAI indication that charging is almost always a full-round action. (unless one's actions are limited, like a zombie.)

On a related note, can someone charge while being Slowed, or is it covered under the "and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles)" clause? The examples given seem to imply physical obstructions only though.

[Firechanter]

Intuitively I'd say being Slowed prevents you from Charging, since to Charge you have to Run. Then again, Slow just says you move half your speed, so if your base speed is 30' you can still move as fast as a halfling in medium armour, and those definitely can charge.
In fact, being Slowed probably is _exactly_ the condition the designers had in mind when they included the clause about initiating a Charge when limited to a standard action.

edit: now that I mention it, how about interpreting medium or heavy armour as "hindering your movement"? No.

[ffone]

This is one of the advantages of Pounce over free movement. Surprise rounds and slow/stagger type conditions still foil full attacking even with a swift move ability (since you can't combine the extra move and your regular standard action into one full round action), whereas Pounce is a way to actually make a full attack on a surprise round. (Extremely valuable for sneak attacking flat-footed foes).

At least I think it works, since it just says 'part of a charge' / 'when the creature charges' (and circumstantially, the weak Dire Charge epic feat specifically says surprise rounds, mentioning surprise round + first round as a restriction).

Of course there are several advantages that go in either direction - a regular charge has restrictions but allows 2x movement, whereas a free move + full attack has fewer restrictions and could use ranged attacks, etc. But if you take pains to get surprise rounds, it's a nice upside.