Is speaking "Olde English" low Charisma?

[Sims]

If I were to talk like: "Dos't thou speaketh to me?" or "Shutteth thine mouth!" and/or "As a thousands blades in his buttocks!>:D"

Would that mean my charisma score would be in the low? I got into a pretty good argument about that with some noobs.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If I were to talk like: "Dos't thou speaketh to me?" or "Shutteth thine mouth!" and/or "As a thousands blades in his buttocks!>:D"

Would that mean my charisma score would be in the low? I got into a pretty good argument about that with some noobs.

I fail to see how speaking proper English could, in any way, indicate a lack of charisma. Indeed, young man, the Great Bard himself did use this language, and none may say that he was uncharismatic.

So nay and forsooth, 'tis not a matter of speech, but in how thine usage is. For verily, if thou doth misuse the language, then thou art instantly seen as a knave, rogue, scoundrel, and easily dismissed. But mastering it would be the height of charisma.

[Chuckthedwarf]

I don't know, it could be.

It's horribly outdated and sounds silly, on the other hand it's just a language.

I mean, Orcish or something that wouldn't be seen as very polite, or very beautiful, in a human society isn't something necessarily uncharismatic. Charisma governs Intimidate too, y'know =p

[Gamer Girl]

No.

But it depends on where/who/how your speaking to someone.


For example, most places 'street talk' is not taken well in professional settings. You won't get far in bussines if you walk into a board room and say something like ''Yo, yo, yo I be inist the Houuuuuuusseeee''. To do so would be a sign of low Charisma to most people.

The same way 'country talk' or even D&D speech would. Saying ''Yee haw, i'm a tired as a old bull'' or ''gosh that paper looks like the Orcs of Tak'Teh attacked it'', both don't go over well in an office setting.

But it depends, after all, Texas is all 'country speak'.

[NNescio]

If I were to talk like: "Dos't thou speaketh to me?" or "Shutteth thine mouth!" and/or "As a thousands blades in his buttocks!>:D"

Would that mean my charisma score would be in the low? I got into a pretty good argument about that with some noobs.

Done poorly? Yes, certainly.
(Hint: Thou is strictly singular, and it's "thy mouth", not "thine mouth".)

Done well? Maybe the opposite, depending on setting.



...So nay and forsooth, 'tis not a matter of speech, but in how thine usage is. For verily, if thou doth misuse the language, then thou art instantly seen as a knave, rogue, scoundrel, and easily dismissed. But mastering it would be the height of charisma.
This? High Charisma.

[TheStillWind]

You have it all wrong. High charisma isn't tied to a certain dialect nor does your perceived charisma change based on the environment. High charisma means blending in socially, altering body language and dialect in response to others, and being aware of when to use 'yeehaw' and 'yes sir' to serve your goals. It is all about tone and audience. Mr high Charisma knows better than to emulate Chaucer in a board meeting.

[Sacrieur]

Someone with low charisma would be brusque or rude. A lot of wizards fall for this and have high Int and low Cha. They'll speak all haughty and use big words, but they are terribly unmannered in their speech.

[Xuc Xac]

They'll speak all haughty and use big words, but they are terribly unmannered in their speech.

They don't have to be unmannered to have low Charisma. If they use big words with people who don't understand those words, that's a failure to communicate effectively. Someone with high Charisma would put things in terms that their audience can understand (without talking down to them).

[Flickerdart]

They don't have to be unmannered to have low Charisma. If they use big words with people who don't understand those words, that's a failure to communicate effectively. Someone with high Charisma would put things in terms that their audience can understand (without talking down to them).
Charisma is force of personality, not politeness. A high-CHA individual such as a Rakshasa or Succubus could treat those around them like trash, but in such an extremely regal and convincing manner that nobody questions this.

[Sacrieur]

They don't have to be unmannered to have low Charisma. If they use big words with people who don't understand those words, that's a failure to communicate effectively. Someone with high Charisma would put things in terms that their audience can understand (without talking down to them).

This too.

--

Also, monks I'm pretty sure are so ugly and terrible at communicating that people run at the sight of them... No wonder they live in solitude and take vows of silence.

[Amnestic]

Well it makes you sound like a complete tool when everyone else is speaking modern English, so I guess that would make people dislike you which could be reflected in your low charisma, I guess.

[Zaq]

You're kidding, right? That's not Old English. That's not even fake Old English. That's not even close to Old English. You want Old English? Let's just pull out the obvious example.

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum . . .

Start talking like that, and then we'll talk about Old English.

[Worira]

No, it's Olde English. That's a completely different thing (http://xkcd.com/771/).

[Knaight]

Though it does bear some vague resemblance to late middle or early modern language. If you look at Le Morte D'Arthur its somewhat similar.

Regarding "Olde English" as concerns Charisma, the portrayal of one who is unable to blend into social situations could be done through the use of syntax irregular to the events requiring socialization. If a group as a whole is using modern English Olde English is out, and vice versa.

[NowhereMan583]

Wait, do you mean if you were to speak like that, or if your character were to speak like that?

(Also, the people above me are correct; those examples are closest to Early Modern English. People who study this sort of thing get touchy when you get that wrong.) Fandiende gelæren nathwa hwa ne caraþ unnytlic sie.

[Morph Bark]

You're kidding, right? That's not Old English. That's not even fake Old English. That's not even close to Old English. You want Old English? Let's just pull out the obvious example.

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum . . .

Start talking like that, and then we'll talk about Old English.

Well done! Now translate that so your post is fully comprehensive as it should be.

[Ravens_cry]

No, I don't see how speaking Bad Shakespeare is low charisma. In fact, if you can get away with it and have people pay attention to you and take the time to try and understand you, that could indicate rather the reverse. It's really just an eccentricity and people willing to work with you despite your weirdness is a sign of high charisma in my opinion.

[Coidzor]

...How did this come up?

Though, come to think of it, if you were actually speaking Old English you'd be basically incomprehensible. So practically Thieve's Cant there. Maybe Druidic.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Well done! Now translate that so your post is fully comprehensive as it should be.
Whossat?
Opening lines of Beowulf, innit?

So - the Spear-Danes in days gone by and the kings who ruled them had courage and greatness. We have heard of those princes' heroic campaigns.

[Aquillion]

Nobody ever spoke entirely like they do in Shakespeare -- many of the words that are now obscure were in common use then, but the overall poetic rhythm of his language and much of the flowery speech was something invented for stage (and similar highly formal situations.)

With that said, translation convention is in full effect. Talking like Shakespeare is a perfectly valid way to indicate that a character is (say) something akin to a certain Shakespearean character. Whether this is high-charisma or low-charisma depends on the character!

Whether you should do it depends on how well you do it and how much the rest of your table is willing to put up with before throwing sourcebooks at you, but generally, I'd recommend not doing it too much. A little bit of that goes a long way. Remember that Shakespeare didn't just pound out that language thoughtlessly -- it took careful writing to make it sound like it did. Trying to use unfamiliar words and unfamiliar sentence structures in an off-the-cuff fashion is a recipe for sounding goofy.

[Cartigan]

I fail to see how speaking proper English could, in any way, indicate a lack of charisma. Indeed, young man, the Great Bard himself did use this language, and none may say that he was uncharismatic.

Being able to write does not make one charismatic.

[Telonius]

I might require a Decipher Script for someone reading something in "Olde English."


You can decipher writing in an unfamiliar language or a message written in an incomplete or archaic form.

Not sure how I'd handle it for spoken word. Depending on how thick of an accent we're talking about, I might require a combination of Bluff and Sense Motive (as per the "Secret Message" rules). I'd probably allow the character to substitute Perform (Oratory) for Bluff.

[PollyOliver]

If I were to talk like: "Dos't thou speaketh to me?" or "Shutteth thine mouth!" and/or "As a thousands blades in his buttocks!>:D"

Would that mean my charisma score would be in the low? I got into a pretty good argument about that with some noobs.

As said above, I think it would depend on the world. In the "real world", older variants of language, especially English, have tended to persist for the longest in isolated "backwater" areas, which means that speaking in an antiquated dialect might be a marker of lower class or distance from power. However, that wouldn't necessarily betoken low charisma (you can be a perfectly charismatic bumpkin), though it might affect how you're perceived by city-goers and those in power. I'd certainly say it might affect your ability to influence and negotiate with nobles, and merchants in the city might think they could take advantage of you, but I'd consider it to be more in the way of a circumstance bonus/penalty than an actual mark of charisma. Then again, Shakespearean-esque language might be the norm in your world.

(Also, as an aside, Shakespearean-era language is actually early modern English. "Old" English isn't really even recognizable as English and is essentially Old High German; think Beowulf. English didn't get to the point that a modern speaker could understand, let alone read, it until late Middle English; think Chaucer).

[Shyftir]

And Chaucer is nigh incomprehensible to the common reader of modern English.

An in-fiction example of some one who uses more archaic speech then others around them can be found in David Eddings' Belgariad. the name escapes me at the moment but one of the heroes is a noble knight from a very formal society. While the people of his country are not known for Intelligence, I assure you this knight is anything but lacking in Charisma.

[Forged Fury]

I dunno, but drinking it probably is.

[PollyOliver]

And Chaucer is nigh incomprehensible to the common reader of modern English.

An in-fiction example of some one who uses more archaic speech then others around them can be found in David Eddings' Belgariad. the name escapes me at the moment but one of the heroes is a noble knight from a very formal society. While the people of his country are not known for Intelligence, I assure you this knight is anything but lacking in Charisma.

Mandorallen, I believe. I always found it entertaining that given 7000 years of linguistic evolution there were only three languages on the entire planet (four if you count whatever the demons speak), and only one with any known additional dialects--and only three at that, which span about 400 years of actual real-world language separation. Ah, David Eddings. :smallsmile: Sometimes it's better to handwave the entire thing than to try, but only so little.

Edit: Maybe an extra language if you count Karandese, or an extra dialect if you count it as Dallish. *shrug*

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Charisma has little to do with the language you use. It's more of your personality, and how others react to it.

A non-charismatic person can be speaking in the language of the people he is speaking to, in the correct dialect, and be blown off.

A charismatic person can be speaking in the wrong dialect, and still everyone listens to him.

It's not the language, or the dialect, it's the magnetism of the individual in question.