Help me make a Jack of All Trades

[Daftendirekt]

I continue seeing mention of the Factotum, and I am aware also of the Chameleon in RoD. So, I want to make a build with them. What would be the best way to do things? I want to do this with a Changeling, and the character would literally have a different persona for each "class role".

Basically, I'm not sure what the optimal spread and order of Factotum and Chameleon levels would be. Same goes for feats, and whether there are any other PrCs that would fit in a build like this.

[TroubleBrewing]

Factotum 20. It's one of the few base classes that scales well all the way up. The more inspiration points you have, the better off you'll be.

[dextercorvia]

I prefer Bard into Chameleon. You don't need a high Cha to be a Bard 4-5. Possible dips are Spellthief, Wizard (Abrupt Jaunt), and Rogue. Factotums lose too much to qualify.

[TroubleBrewing]

But if you're looking for a jack-of-all trades, look no further than Factotum 20. If you want a build that uses Chameleon purely for the sake of doing so, then yes, Bard is a much better option.

[dextercorvia]

Somebody has a post about how Factotum20>FactotumX/Chameleon10 at almost every level.

[TroubleBrewing]

I think that was me, like a year ago. But I'm sure somebody else has done it.

[Daftendirekt]

Really? It seems like Chameleon has much better access to spells (when taking the appropriate focus) than Factotum does. I figured I'd generally be in one of those Focuses, and then focus on the mundane stuff in my Factotumness.

[dextercorvia]

The one I was remembering was JaronK (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9869060&postcount=4)

[Daftendirekt]

Well, this still begs the question: Say I go Factotum 20, what then? Should I just general a general slew of "good feats". Are there certain ones that are particularly good for a Factotum? And why does JaronK think that Whisper Gnome is the best race for this class?

[TroubleBrewing]

Whisper Gnome is good for this build because of what it is. It's arguably the strongest +0 LA race out there (Human aside), and for the Factotum, which is effectively Rogue 2.0, it's astonishing for it's stealth capacity.

As for the feats, every single one should be Font of Inspiration.

[Sacrieur]

Changeling Rogue 1/Factotum 9/Exemplar 10. Pump up your Int: 5 stat boost from levels, +5 tome, +6 items. That's a whopping extra 12 skill points per level from your int alone.

Alternatively you could do a similar combination with human + able learner.

[Daftendirekt]

Able Learner (And Human Paragon) are unnecessary in our campaigns. We "fixed' the skill system:


No class or cross-class skills. Who says every wizard and every fighter has the exact same focus of interests? Learn what you want to learn.
Grouped similar skills a la Fourth Edition. Move Silently/Hide are Stealth, Jump/Climb are Athletics, Gather Info was rolled into Knowledge (local), Spellcraft was rolled into Knowledge (arcana), Etc.
No more x4 skill points at 1st level. Max skill rank is your ECL.


Also, what is the general consensus on how Font of Inspiration works? +1 each time, or cumulative? Cumulative seems broken as hell.

[Cog]

I've never seen an interpretation other than 'cumulative' before, and taking a feat for just one more point at higher levels just doesn't seem to be worth it.

Its main strength depends on whether you can do the extra standard action ability more than once per round. If you limit that, then FoI is still good but need not be every feat you take.

[Doc Roc]

Cumulative is standard, but you could limit it to 3 instances. It's quite good, but remember, a feat-tax is a feat-tax.

[grarrrg]

the character would literally have a different persona for each "class role".


This part says Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3) to me.

Although Chameleon is good too.

[Sacrieur]

Able Learner (And Human Paragon) are unnecessary in our campaigns. We "fixed' the skill system:


No class or cross-class skills. Who says every wizard and every fighter has the exact same focus of interests? Learn what you want to learn.
Grouped similar skills a la Fourth Edition. Move Silently/Hide are Stealth, Jump/Climb are Athletics, Gather Info was rolled into Knowledge (local), Spellcraft was rolled into Knowledge (arcana), Etc.
No more x4 skill points at 1st level. Max skill rank is your ECL.


Also, what is the general consensus on how Font of Inspiration works? +1 each time, or cumulative? Cumulative seems broken as hell.

Even better for Changling Rogue 1/Factotum 10/Exemplar 9

[Show]

Try taking the jack of all trades feat. Sounds like there is some synergy going on, hmmm?
Anway, you might want to consider what combat style you're going for. Archery burns up lots of feats which could otherwise be used for font of inspiration, but it seems like it could work if all you're going for is skills.
Remember, one rank in a rarely used skill is more than enough.

[Zonugal]

As for the feats, every single one should be Font of Inspiration.

I might disagree in that you don't need to have every feat be Font of Inspiration, there are some others (as JaronK points out in other posts) that are useful. Darkstalker, Master of Poisons, Craft Wondrous Item, Knowledge Devotion, Imperious Command and Improved Trip are some solid ones.

While some are suggesting Factotum 20, I might offer up a build like Factotum 8/Binder 1/Chameleon 2/Factotum 9.

[Thurbane]

Kiloren and Spellscale are both good JoAT races, dues to their racial abilities...sadly, neither can qualify for Chameleon.

[Zaq]

To hell with Factotum. I'm gonna bring up what I always bring up: Binder/Incarnate/Chameleon. Mix and match the levels to your taste.

See, Factotum and Chameleon don't go that well together. The Factotum is a competent generalist. The Chameleon is a serial specialist. You need another serial specialist if you really want to capitalize on that . . . like the Binder. Or the Incarnate. Or both.

It works beautifully. Bonus points if you don't tell the party what you actually are.

[TroubleBrewing]

It works beautifully. Bonus points if you don't tell the party what you actually are.

Or you tell them, but change the answer every time.

Party: What do you do?
You: Yep.

[gorfnab]

I'm currently playing a Halfling Factotum at the moment. One thing I advise is to put at least 1 rank in each skill. This handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0) may be helpful to you.

[Daftendirekt]

Even better for Changling Rogue 1/Factotum 10/Exemplar 9

Exemplar looks like garbage to me. Along with all the other changes to our skill system, you can make an untrained skill check in any skill, even knowledges. You obviously just have a terrible chance of making the DC without ranks.

Try taking the jack of all trades feat. Sounds like there is some synergy going on, hmmm?
Anway, you might want to consider what combat style you're going for. Archery burns up lots of feats which could otherwise be used for font of inspiration, but it seems like it could work if all you're going for is skills.
Remember, one rank in a rarely used skill is more than enough.
And thus, the JoaT feat is equally useless.
While some are suggesting Factotum 20, I might offer up a build like Factotum 8/Binder 1/Chameleon 2/Factotum 9.

Never looked at Binder before. Sounds pretty cool, actually, I think this could be a pretty cool build. I want to make sure I'm reading it correctly. As long as you're of the appropriate Binder level, you can attempt to make a pact with a vestige. There isn't a list of "known vestiges" or something. So, with 1 level of Binder, I could on any given day make a pact with any of those 1st level Vestiges?

Also, my Binder level would just be 1, yes? I don't get half from other levels like Maneuvers?

EDIT: It almost seems like I could just take the Bind Vestige feat and put that level somewhere else.

[Zaq]

Exemplar looks like garbage to me. Along with all the other changes to our skill system, you can make an untrained skill check in any skill, even knowledges. You obviously just have a terrible chance of making the DC without ranks.

And thus, the JoaT feat is equally useless.

Never looked at Binder before. Sounds pretty cool, actually, I think this could be a pretty cool build. I want to make sure I'm reading it correctly. As long as you're of the appropriate Binder level, you can attempt to make a pact with a vestige. There isn't a list of "known vestiges" or something. So, with 1 level of Binder, I could on any given day make a pact with any of those 1st level Vestiges?

Also, my Binder level would just be 1, yes? I don't get half from other levels like Maneuvers?

EDIT: It almost seems like I could just take the Bind Vestige feat and put that level somewhere else.

You don't get all of the vestige's abilities from just Bind Vestige, though. And the feat only gets you a single vestige. Bind Vestige is a decent feat if you know exactly what you want, but it's no substitute for being an actual Binder.

[Zonugal]

Never looked at Binder before. Sounds pretty cool, actually, I think this could be a pretty cool build. I want to make sure I'm reading it correctly. As long as you're of the appropriate Binder level, you can attempt to make a pact with a vestige. There isn't a list of "known vestiges" or something. So, with 1 level of Binder, I could on any given day make a pact with any of those 1st level Vestiges?

Also, my Binder level would just be 1, yes? I don't get half from other levels like Maneuvers?

EDIT: It almost seems like I could just take the Bind Vestige feat and put that level somewhere else.

The primary reason for the level in Binder is to bind Naberius for at will Disguise Self, temporary bonuses/access to a few trainable only skills, and the ability to always take 10 on bluff & diplomacy roles. The vestige (for such a small investment) offers a lot in assisting a 'Jack of All Trades' build.

[Daftendirekt]

Did you miss my post talking about our fixed skill system, including the part where there are no class and cross-class skills, and you can roll anything untrained?

Also, if I go Changeling I get (physical!)Disguise Self at will anyway.

[FMArthur]

You might also consider going into Bard for Talfirian Song feat, which lets you Heighten spells up to 9th. Combined with Sanctum Spell, and you are able to cast 10th level spells. So you can take the Extra Slot feat to get 9th level spells (I'd take it 3 times) on your Chameleon casting. Bards are also good at being the jack-of-all-trades type to begin with.