False Worship Rules?

[Aergoth]

I have this idea that there are rules for making a character that's faking the worship of one deity while really worshipping another.

Rules for making the quintessential "Cult Leader posing as a priest" bad guy.

The characters that we're working with here are variously neutral and chaotic evil doom cultists out to destroy the universe. Some of them aren't capable of looking humanoid or normal.

From the other mechanical point of view, Cityscape presents a decent way with castings of nondetection and undetectable alignment.

What I want to know is what other, relatively simple, cheeseless ways can we disguise our death-cult with a legitimate religious front.

[Veyr]

Ur-Priest (Complete Divine) might be an excellent chassis for this. Just a thought. The class is reviled as cheesy since it can get 9th level spells at level 15, but aside from levels 14-16 (the levels where it's ahead in spells), it's actually quite a bit less powerful than just a Cleric (at least in spellcasting; the class features are pretty solid though).

There's also False Theurgy, a skill trick in Complete Scoundrel, that might interest such a character.

[Zaq]

What do you want these rules to do, exactly? All you have to do is make sure that Mr. Faker's real god isn't jealous enough to mess around with him. Then he just makes a big show about praying to God A, secretly prays to (and gets spells from, if applicable) God B, and there you are. Sure, the domains probably won't line up, but in my mind, that's a feature, not a bug, since it'll let smart observers notice that something's not right.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well, I don't think there are mechanical problems with that, but if you want to avoid some spells such as detect alignment you could take the feat : Mask of gentility or something like that from exemplars of evil (or elder evils I can't recall which one) which makes you show up as neutral on the alignment detection abilities.

[erikun]

To regain spells, a cleric needs to pray at a specific time according to their deity. There is no problem with praying at other times, and nothing saying you can't pray in silence. If your cleric of Hextor wants to pretend to be a cleric of Pelor, he can just pray in the mornings (when Pelor clerics normally pray for spells) and pray whenever clerics of Hextor normally pray as well.

Holy symbols will be a far trickier option. You could try being deceptive, such as the false holy symbol on the front and the actual holy symbol on the back. Or you could put the true holy symbol someplace unobvious - carved on the inside of your shield, for example - or make it "hidden in plain sight". Hextor, for example, has a holy symbol of a fist clutching three crossed arrows. A carving of three bound lines, or carrying three bound arrows on your person, could very well count as a holy symbol despite not obviously being one. Someone skilled in Knowledge: Religion might catch that it represents a religious symbol rather than an old house symbol your grandfather belonged to, though, so keep those Bluff ranks high.

Or were you looking for another class to pose as a cleric? Bards can produce healing, and I've heard of a person playing an Expert who just used wands and Heal checks to make people think he was a cleric at lower levels.

[Aergoth]

Not all clergy are clerics as I recall. In this case we're just looking to pose as the religious. What worries me is the alignment issue.

Thoughts on a few eternal wands of undetectable alignment from the MiC?

[Knaight]

Wands of undetectable alignment deal with that problem, bluff and disguise deal with the less magical ways of seeing that something is wrong.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well, I don't think there are mechanical problems with that, but if you want to avoid some spells such as detect alignment you could take the feat : Mask of gentility or something like that from exemplars of evil (or elder evils I can't recall which one) which makes you show up as neutral on the alignment detection abilities.


Not all clergy are clerics as I recall. In this case we're just looking to pose as the religious. What worries me is the alignment issue.

Thoughts on a few eternal wands of undetectable alignment from the MiC?


:Subtly points to the quoted post:

[blackjack217]

Well, I don't think there are mechanical problems with that, but if you want to avoid some spells such as detect alignment you could take the feat : Mask of gentility or something like that from exemplars of evil (or elder evils I can't recall which one) which makes you show up as neutral on the alignment detection abilities.

Which Is the best trick for catching fakes. If the NPC paladin does not show up on the detect good...

[ScionoftheVoid]

Which Is the best trick for catching fakes. If the NPC paladin does not show up on the detect good...

Detect Good is an Evil spell, and IIRC is only on the Cleric list. Clerics cannot cast opposite alignment spells, so anyone who knows the "Paladin" isn't Good probably just stopped thinking of them as an enemy, rather than started. Silly, but true.

[Greymane]

Detect Good is an Evil spell, and IIRC is only on the Cleric list. Clerics cannot cast opposite alignment spells, so anyone who knows the "Paladin" isn't Good probably just stopped thinking of them as an enemy, rather than started. Silly, but true.

Detect Good doesn't have an Alignment descriptor. You may be thinking of Protection from Good.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Detect Good doesn't have an Alignment descriptor. You may be thinking of Protection from Good.

I probably was. Nevertheless, why would you prepare Detect Good? The only classes that have it without having to prepare it are Evil, and it's very rarely useful. A "Paladin" using Undetectable Alignment or that feat to try to get past a cult's gate would be a reasonable excuse if you did happen to find one that didn't react, and anyone disguising themselves as a Paladin may well have the Bluff to pull it off.

If this doesn't make sense I'm sorry, it sounds weird reading it to myself, but I think the idea is there (the few times you use Detect Good the guy could easily get away with it anyway, and it's not going to be very useful in the first place).

[NNescio]

I probably was. Nevertheless, why would you prepare Detect Good? The only classes that have it without having to prepare it are Evil, and it's very rarely useful. A "Paladin" using Undetectable Alignment or that feat to try to get past a cult's gate would be a reasonable excuse if you did happen to find one that didn't react, and anyone disguising themselves as a Paladin may well have the Bluff to pull it off.

If this doesn't make sense I'm sorry, it sounds weird reading it to myself, but I think the idea is there (the few times you use Detect Good the guy could easily get away with it anyway, and it's not going to be very useful in the first place).

Combine it with Detect Evil. (from an item, perhaps) If the cult members are supposed to be 'evil', then anyone who pings negative on both Detect Good and Detect Evil would be really suspicious.

Throw in Detect Law and Detect Chaos as needed.

Someone who pings negative on all Detect spells is either True Neutral or has something to hide.

[Ravens_cry]

So pretend to be a Cleric of one of the kindlier Neutral Gods. If your DM is willing to waive the "Only Neutral if the God is Neutral " rule, or you bluff that you are an exception, you can even pretend to be cleric of Neutral Good god. I had an idea for an assassin who posed as a holy man; adding to the kicker was that he was an aasimar.

[RebelRogue]

Nevertheless, why would you prepare Detect Good?
To get around situations like these! It's a standard precaution if you suspect Undetectable Alignment or similar stuff may be in play.