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Paseo H
2011-03-29, 02:30 PM
My Big Bad's main power comes from having a Bag of Holding full of magical items she has purloined over the centuries.

How do I keep it threatening while not giving myself carte blanche to just make up crap to be in there to get her out of a situation?

ClockShock
2011-03-29, 02:49 PM
Write down a list of what's in it.
Seal list in an envelope.
Wave the envelope about when players question the smacking they just got handed.

Those things still have holding capacities, right?

Sacrieur
2011-03-29, 02:53 PM
Write down a list of what's in it.
Seal list in an envelope.
Wave the envelope about when players question the smacking they just got handed.

Those things still have holding capacities, right?

Yup, Type IV has 250 sq ft. of storage space and can hold up to 1500 lbs.

Paseo H
2011-03-29, 03:06 PM
Right, so that's room for a crapton of rings...scrolls...potions...swords, whatever.

Problem is, I don't actually know much D&D, I just incorporate a bit of it to break up the whole Rifts atmosphere we're having.

So, even if I wanted to risk limiting myself unduly by giving her too few items to rely on, I don't really know much about D&D magic items lately anyway.

And yes, she has stuff from other games too, including and especially Rifts.

Defiant
2011-03-29, 09:28 PM
My Big Bad's main power comes from having a Bag of Holding full of magical items she has purloined over the centuries.

How do I keep it threatening while not giving myself carte blanche to just make up crap to be in there to get her out of a situation?

Solution: there's a percentage chance that she has exactly the right tool needed for the job in the bag of holding, and roll it.

Refluff if desired - as a special bag of holding that actually has that descriptor.

Paseo H
2011-03-29, 09:34 PM
Hmm...almost sounds like a Wand of Wonder, in bag form.

Defiant
2011-03-29, 09:39 PM
Hmm...almost sounds like a Wand of Wonder, in bag form.

Except it's more controlled and based on what you need at the time.

It's an easy solution. Decide how powerful the item is and assign percentage chances.

Something as simple as "exactly the tool needed for the job", "a mundane tool that can be used to do the job", and "nothing at all".

Though if you like complexity, you could add in bigger bonuses and penalties within the chances.

holywhippet
2011-03-29, 10:11 PM
Grab every book listing magical items you have and go through it. Note down everything interesting that the character might like and the price. Use the wealth by level table to limit your selections to a reasonable amount for the character.

Isn't there a particular magical bag that contains a certain gold amount worth of mundane objects? ie. it can produce any mundane object on demand but has a total gold limit on how much you can take out of it before it becomes an ordinary bag.

Tiki Snakes
2011-03-29, 11:03 PM
I can't help but think that having a villain powered by a magic-bag-of-loot is kind of asking for it, really.

icefractal
2011-03-30, 01:12 AM
The "chance to have exact the right item" idea is a good one, but if you also want a list of frequently used items, this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) has quite a few.

Acanous
2011-03-30, 05:09 AM
What class is your villain? This makes a huge difference in what they'd keep in the bag.

Although personally, no matter what class it is, any magic bag villain I play would keep a bottle of air in there. Just in case they wanted to hide in the bag and pop out later.

Reynard
2011-03-30, 05:12 AM
The danger with giving the villain a magic bag that can give them any item that they need is that the players will kill them and take it.

And then keep trying to pull things out of it until they all have Epic-level loot, because everyone needs Epic-level loot.

Firechanter
2011-03-30, 05:52 AM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too... Villains are there to be overcome by the PCs, and you have to be willing to accept that all the villain's toys end up in the hands of the PCs.

And no, "I'll make it so the players never kill him / don't get hold of the Bag" is not a good contingency. Simply for the fact that no plan survives first contact with the players. They will surprise you, and before you know they will have the bag.

That said, if you go through with it, keep in mind that Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.

Also, you can't keep sharp or pointy things in it (although I guess there are scabbards or sheates available for pretty much any weapon).

(Personally, I much prefer the Handy Haversack to the BoH.)

Haarkla
2011-03-30, 07:08 AM
Grab every book listing magical items you have and go through it. Note down everything interesting that the character might like and the price. Use the wealth by level table to limit your selections to a reasonable amount for the character.
I support this approach. Books of magical items are usually a fun read.

Paseo H
2011-03-30, 07:14 AM
Well...

She is a former archmage, who sacrificed her power in a pact with an eldritch abomination and now is an epic level assassin or something.

Bad contingencies or not, I think she's not going to be caught off guard by the good guys trying to yoink her bag.

Plus, she does plan ahead and is going to pull stuff out of the bag before something happens.

Parra
2011-03-30, 07:22 AM
Bad contingencies or not, I think she's not going to be caught off guard by the good guys trying to yoink her bag

I forsee some PC's equipped with some very powerful items in the near future (barring DM fiat ofc)

TroubleBrewing
2011-03-30, 07:30 AM
I like the idea. Even with the fact that the players will get the bag, I like the idea.

Even if the players get the bag, who's to say that the bag is entirely filled with super awesome stuff? Sure, there's going to be some good items in there, and depending on the level of the party, some of it will be world-shatteringly good.

But think about it this way: if your big bad has an item for every contingency, some of those items will be useless to the party. The majority of it they are going to sell, simply because sometimes you just don't need an Apparatus of Kwalish. But a truly well prepped BBEG will have one, because you just never know.

My approach to this would be to have one item that benefits each party member equally, and the rest be "vendor trash", or useless stuff you sell. If you want to simplify it even more, have one item for each party member, and the rest be straight GP, PP, and gems, assuming that they have a place to sell all of it.

Paseo H
2011-03-30, 07:37 AM
Okay, let's put it another way:

She's over 1000 years old, and has knowledge of magic, as well as having gained many favors from archmages.

I'm sure she has some non "dm fiat" way of getting around the yoinking problem.

For instance, some sort of enchantment to 1. Not let the bag open without the command word, and 2. Teleport it to the user if it's stolen.

Parra
2011-03-30, 07:54 AM
Okay, let's put it another way:

She's over 1000 years old, and has knowledge of magic, as well as having gained many favors from archmages.

I'm sure she has some non "dm fiat" way of getting around the yoinking problem.

For instance, some sort of enchantment to 1. Not let the bag open without the command word, and 2. Teleport it to the user if it's stolen.

lets put it this way then: PC's they will find a way

Wont open without a command word? use magic device.
Teleport to BBEG if stolen? carry dead BBEG around with you

TroubleBrewing
2011-03-30, 09:03 AM
I've actually seen both of these get used in game before.

druid91
2011-03-30, 09:08 AM
If it can be interacted with in any way it exists. If it exists expect the players to loot it.


Up to and including the rocks that fell and killed everyone.

Firechanter
2011-03-30, 09:14 AM
Paseo: see, there's the problem: it doesn't matter if your NPC is an epic archmage, demigod, or whatnot and has an Int score of 45. YOU still have to do the thinking. That NPC sheet ain't gonna do that for you.
By all means go ahead, but if your players are worth their salt they _will_ surprise you. And end up with a bag chock-full of magic trinkets.

P.S.: and then it's bad form (to say the least) to say stuff like "Yeah, well, umm, being an epic archmage and all, she would have thought of that. So, er, it doesn't work."

ericgrau
2011-03-30, 09:33 AM
Use NPC wealth by level to decide how much stuff the big bad has, including his normal gear. Put some of that wealth into the bag. WBL is of course a guideline and your big bad may have more, but it gives you a starting point.

Otherwise the new PC strategy might be to loot the bag and run, then use the money to defeat the BBEG.

Tiki Snakes
2011-03-30, 09:35 AM
Looting isn't the only problem. If a sizeable portion of her power comes from it and it's contents, they might settle for just destroying the bag outright. It's a minefield, really it is.

Yuki Akuma
2011-03-30, 09:44 AM
A bag of holding isn't a great idea, really. It takes a lot of time to root around in those things, if they have a lot of stuff in them. The only magic they have is being bigger on the inside than the outside - doesn't help you find that one Ring of Three Wishes under your pile of copper coins, mithril plate armour and scrolls of grease.

ericgrau
2011-03-30, 09:52 AM
Good point. Give the BBEG a handy haversack instead. There are a lot of near weightless and tiny trinkets he could have, like rings, scrolls, potions, etc. So the haversack may be enough.

Mewtarthio
2011-03-30, 10:06 AM
Perhaps the bag also contains an Ancient Prismatic Dracolich.

(Or, more seriously, some traps just in case anyone gets around her contingencies, and/or a number of Evil Artifacts with horrible side effects that she has either for any last-ditch desperate measures or uses or because she doesn't mind the side effects.)

Cartigan
2011-03-30, 10:30 AM
Okay, let's put it another way:

She's over 1000 years old, and has knowledge of magic, as well as having gained many favors from archmages.

I'm sure she has some non "dm fiat" way of getting around the yoinking problem.


The moment you assume the players will NEVER get the bag normally is the moment you just planned to DM fiat the bag out of player hands.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-30, 10:32 AM
I can't help but think that having a villain powered by a magic-bag-of-loot is kind of asking for it, really.

It's called "the players are gonna steal the hell outta that".


Well...

She is a former archmage, who sacrificed her power in a pact with an eldritch abomination...

And we've already shown a prior history of bad judgement.

Zaranthan
2011-03-30, 12:07 PM
Just fill the bag with a couple scrolls of EVERYTHING, and rig it with a trap: when somebody other than the BBEG sticks their hand in, everything catches fire.

Sacrieur
2011-03-30, 12:24 PM
It is easier than that. Make it an epic level intelligent item that has something personal against the PCs.

Zaranthan
2011-03-30, 12:27 PM
"You killed my human! We was the bestest of friends and you beat her up! Go away!"

Sipex
2011-03-30, 12:48 PM
A few of you are using D&D rules but I don't think this is actually a D&D game being run, just the idea of a bag of holding is being used so Paseo has more wiggle room than we think.

That said, if this thing follows any of the basic rules of a D&D bag of holding the first thing you're going to want is to make sure it's impenitrable from the outside. If your BBEG depends on this bag for a good portion of her power the PCs will note this and puncture it if they can't take it away.

Paseo H
2011-03-30, 12:53 PM
Sipex is basically correct. Though I'm using D&D rules for D&D stuff for the most part, I intend to be flexible.

However, the Handy Haversack does seem more like what I intended for her.

The Bag of Holding can be more of a portable warehouse, and the Haversack could be for stuff that needs to be on hand.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-30, 12:58 PM
"You killed my human! We was the bestest of friends and you beat her up! Go away!"

Regardless of the plot, I want to use this line for an intelligent item, if you don't mind. It's fantastic.

Zaranthan
2011-03-30, 01:49 PM
Regardless of the plot, I want to use this line for an intelligent item, if you don't mind. It's fantastic.

Go right ahead. Sincerest form of flattery and all.

holywhippet
2011-03-30, 06:14 PM
As well as the bag, give her a pair of gloves of storing which can store/recall an item each as a free action. This should save her having to use up an action in order to pull something from the bag.

Marnath
2011-03-30, 06:24 PM
As well as the bag, give her a pair of gloves of storing which can store/recall an item each as a free action. This should save her having to use up an action in order to pull something from the bag.

You can't wear two of those together.

holywhippet
2011-03-30, 09:11 PM
You can't wear two of those together.

I don't see anything in the description stopping it:


This device is a simple leather glove. On command, one item held in the hand wearing the glove disappears. The item can weigh no more than 20 pounds and must be able to be held in one hand. While stored, the item has negligible weight. With a snap of the fingers wearing the glove, the item reappears. A glove can only store one item at a time. Storing or retrieving the item is a free action. The item is held in stasis and shrunk down so small within the palm of the glove that it cannot be seen. Spell durations are not suppressed, but continue to expire. If an effect is suppressed or dispelled, the stored item appears instantly.

Marnath
2011-03-30, 10:14 PM
I don't see anything in the description stopping it:

Look at the section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody) on magic item slots on the body.


*One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands

Emphasis mine. Glove of storing comes by itself, and takes up the hands slot. So does the gauntlet of rust.

Acanous
2011-03-31, 05:28 AM
So you're looking at an archmage? Alright
Wands; Web, Grease, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Mage Armor, Mirror Image, Silent Image, solid fog.
Scrolls: Teleport, Wall of Stone, Wall of Force, Cloudkill, Deep Slumber, fly, Phantasmal Terrain, Shatter.
Rings: Water breathing, shooting stars, feather fall, Protection, possibly one of the elemental rings if you've got that much cash to play with.
Rods: Immovable Rod*4 for sure.
Spellbooks. She may have traded her power away, but she'd have kept these.


So there's a bunch of utility that can propably get you through most of the situations your PCs will think up. Read through the items for more appropriate things, but there's a good starter list.

Provengreil
2011-03-31, 01:54 PM
Look at the section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody) on magic item slots on the body.



Emphasis mine. Glove of storing comes by itself, and takes up the hands slot. So does the gauntlet of rust.

actually, there are rules that say you can, magic item compendium i think. if you wear an item that takes half a slot like a guantlet of rust or a glove of storing, you can put a similar half-item on the other hand.

Pisha
2011-03-31, 05:18 PM
It is easier than that. Make it an epic level intelligent item that has something personal against the PCs.

That is BEAUTIFUL.

Alternately (or in addition), try this:

1) take an hour or two to look through the DMG and Magic Item Compendium (plus a book or three from your main game, if you're pulling from several sources.) Jot down anything that catches your eye, including page number & book. That's the stuff your villain knows is in the bag.

2) figure out a "Maybe" roll. After all, she's been at this for a while; she's probably forgotten half the stuff she squirrelled away in there. Don't make it a very high percentage, and adjust it up according to power (as was suggested before), but there is a chance, however slim, that she may "discover" an item in the bag that she didn't remember putting in it.

3) Seed the bag with cursed items. Pull them from books or make them up. Get creative; get nasty. By the time you're done there should be one cursed item for every 3-4 regular items. The reason for each could vary: maybe they're specifically set up for theft protection, maybe the villain intends to use them against the PC's at some point, maybe she didn't realize they were cursed, whatever. Just so long as they're there.

Now it gets fun. See, the bag is a unique artifact created by the villain. It was originally just a Type IV bag of holding, but back when she was an archmage, she adapted it to have a) an even greater capacity, and b) enough rudimentary intelligence to function similar to a Heward's Handy. Over the years, though, the bag has developed a life - and a personality - of its own. It likes the villain, likes being helpful to her, but it's not that bright, not that mature, and a little insecure. The villain learned early on that the bag needs to be praised, reassured, thanked - or its feelings will get hurt, and it will retaliate the only way it can: providing the wrong item. (Which, depending on the situation, could be inconvenient or it could be lethal.) It ALSO wants to be "rewarded" by having more and more powerful items placed into it.

By this point, the bag is both a blessing and a curse. It's the source of the villain's power, but that power can be taken away if she doesn't keep the bag happy. The PC's may hear her talking to the bag when she doesn't know they're listening, or they may notice she's oddly fixated on getting even more loot. Any attempt to just empty the bag altogether will fail - the bag will only release items one at a time, and if the villain tries to take too many out at once (and without putting any back), the bag will get upset and start "accidentally" handing out cursed items instead. Even after the villain stops and begins putting things back in (assuming none of the items were immediately lethal), there'll be a period of time where the bag needs to be "won over" again.

So now you have a memorable villain quirk, an extremely powerful item that also contains its own drawback - and it's mostly PC-proof.

So what happens if, despite all your plans, the PC's DO get their hands on the bag? Well, first of all, they now own an intelligent, high-strung item that hates them for killing/taking it away from its "friend." Good luck getting anything out of it. If they do want to go the hard route of winning it over, let them try - but don't let it be as simple as one Diplomacy roll. It's a long, long process, and in the meantime the bag's attitude towards them may backslide or change on a whim, resulting in it giving them either an absolutely useless item instead of the one they want, or a horribly cursed item (which could be its own sideplot.) And it still wants more items! Eventually, the most likely decision would be for the PC's to give up and destroy it (at which point it explodes, destroying everything inside it except some suspiciously level-appropriate treasure :smallbiggrin:)

And if the PC's actually get their hands on the bag, survive its many attempts to kill them, eventually win its actual loyalty, and agree to keep it happy and supplied with new magical items? Man, they earned it. (Just don't make it easy for them!)

...reading back on this, I may have gotten too excited about this idea... *adds spoiler tags for length*

Pisha
2011-03-31, 05:19 PM
...also, if you're wearing a glove of storing, I really wouldn't recommend putting that hand in a bag of holding. Just putting that out there.

ericgrau
2011-03-31, 06:11 PM
The glove of storing actually shrinks the item so it's hunky dory in a bag of holding.

He could perhaps have a handy haversack, quiver of elhonna (staffs), a glove of storing, robe of useful items, and every other fast retrieval item you can imagine.

Shyftir
2011-03-31, 06:42 PM
Go read a Drizz't book with Jarlaxle in it. Take notes.