What Batman stories/continuities whould a beginner read?

[TheMinxTail]

So I made a similar thread before, but after finding myself in one of my few, if long, breaks from UNiversity, I've played some more of Arkham Asylum (getting disoriented because I loaded a save from a year ago rather than my from-scratch save from January) and I have decided that I am interested in the Batman mythos. If nothing else, the Scarecrow is too damned interesting for me not to read up on, though is hardly the only character the game has thusfar sold as interesting (Harley Quinn is, shall we say, hard to look away from), but after two Silent Hill-like levels and listening to a few interview tapes I am intrigued with that glowy-eyesfear-gas spewig villain in particular. Speaking of, am I the only one with difficulty in the interview tapes elling what gender SC was? Neither here nor there, but it sounded like a woman but I thought he was a man, and I had to listen twice to make sense of it.

So the point is, I want to read up on the Batman mythos; if nothing else, it will further my research into modern media, to see why comics are so prevalent, and in that case where better to start than one of the best known; Batman. So my query is to surmised as such; I have never read a Batman comic before and want to start, so where do I begin? I've been lead to believe that there are many continuities and series in comics alone, and typical wisdom states that stand-alone novels are a good place to start, so of them what would you recommend?

Thank you for reading in any case, as it means you permitted my crappy sense of title-crafting to be ignored.

EDIT: I suppose I wasn't clear on this, so I'll say it now; once I find some grounding for the Batman mythos as it exists in comics, I intend to start reading up on an ongoing continuity, so I would also appreciate a good way to get into the series and not just the standalone stories, IF such a way exists. I'd rather not have to use wikipedia to provide context for the proceedings. (Not to say that I am TOTALLY ignorant of Batman - you'd have to try real hard to find someone in this culture who couldn't identify the Joker - Heath Ledger FTW)

[thubby]

if you havent seen the batman TAS, that might be a better place to start.

[Eldan]

Batman: Year One has a few similarities to Batman Begins, namely that they both retell the Origin story. Beyond that, not too similar, but still a good beginning.

[Mr.Bookworm]

A Death in the Family, The Long Halloween, Arkham Asylum, The Killing Joke, the Dark Knight Returns, and Year One are probably the essentials. Also check out Red Son, a Superman Elsewheres story, for the Batshanka.

Also, not a comic, but I'll echo thubby and say that Batman: The Animated Series is absolutely amazing. Batman Beyond, despite sounding really stupid if you try to describe it to someone, is also amazing. The entire first seasons of both are on Hulu. Watch them.

[TheMinxTail]

A Death in the Family, The Long Halloween, Arkham Asylum, The Killing Joke, the Dark Knight Returns, and Year One are probably the essentials. Also check out Red Son, a Superman Elsewheres story, for the Batshanka.

Also, not a comic, but I'll echo thubby and say that Batman: The Animated Series is absolutely amazing. Batman Beyond, despite sounding really stupid if you try to describe it to someone, is also amazing. The entire first seasons of both are on Hulu. Watch them.

Damned Americana and your capitalist ways of Hulu and personal hygiene! We here in Sovit Britain don't get Hulu.

Is Batman Beyond taht one in the future? 'Cause I saw some particularly weird episodes of that, inclusing what I believe was a movie where Robin was the Joker... I think. I don;t know, it's been awhile.

[GeekGirl]

Also, not a comic, but I'll echo thubby and say that Batman: The Animated Series is absolutely amazing. Batman Beyond, despite sounding really stupid if you try to describe it to someone, is also amazing. The entire first seasons of both are on Hulu. Watch them.
When i first saw it i really didn't like the series at all. But I gave it a second shot a year of 2 ago, and fell in love with the show, not quite as good as TAS, but still awesome. I really enjoyed No Man's Land, though it doesn't seem to get as much love as the other .. namely all the ones Mr. Bookworm said. (great picks by the way)

[Mr.Bookworm]

Damned Americana and your capitalist ways of Hulu and personal hygiene! We here in Sovit Britain don't get Hulu.

Weeeeell.

Er.

http://www.mediavandal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/redsonbatmanhat.jpg

Have a picture of the Batshanka as compensation.


Is Batman Beyond taht one in the future? 'Cause I saw some particularly weird episodes of that, inclusing what I believe was a movie where Robin was the Joker... I think. I don;t know, it's been awhile.

Batman Beyond is the one in the future, yes. Where Batman is a retired old man (he still ranks as one of the most badass incarnations of Batman I've seen, though), and a high schooler takes up the mantle. Again, sounds kind of stupid and generic, but it really is amazing.

[Hzurr]

Is Batman Beyond taht one in the future? 'Cause I saw some particularly weird episodes of that, inclusing what I believe was a movie where Robin was the Joker... I think. I don;t know, it's been awhile.

yeah, that was the movie.


If you're starting from scratch, I'd recommend (in order)

Batman: Year One
Batman: The Long Halloween
Batman: Dark Victory

This will establish how Batman started up, how he got some of his enemies, how Robin fits into the picture, etc. Plus, they're just good stories.

Aside from that, other really good batman stories are:

The Killing Joke (one of the best joker stories ever)
Dark Knight Returns (basically, what happens to Batman in the future)
Justice League: Tower of Babel (note: skip the first part of the book where the justice league goes inside some kid. It's dumb and doesn't relate to the rest of the story. After that part, however, is an awesome story about Batman & his paranoia)


I'd also recommend looking into Batman: The Animated Series. It's a great look at the core Batman universe, and establishes nearly all of the villains and how they relate to batman. It's a cartoon, but one that can easily be enjoyed by adults. Plus, if you like Harley Quinn, this is where she came from. She was invented in the Animated Series (and the episode featuring her called: "Mad Love" is one of the best episodes I've ever seen)

You can pick up the animated series on Amazon here (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_26?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=batman+the+animated+series&x=0&y=0&sprefix=batman+the+animated+series)

[TheMinxTail]

Weeeeell.

Er.

http://www.mediavandal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/redsonbatmanhat.jpg

Have a picture of the Batshanka as compensation.



Batman Beyond is the one in the future, yes. Where Batman is a retired old man (he still ranks as one of the most badass incarnations of Batman I've seen, though), and a high schooler takes up the mantle. Again, sounds kind of stupid and generic, but it really is amazing.

The picture did cheer me up some, I suppose. Actually, one episode taht stuck out in my mind was where the kid had some sort of hallucination thingy put on him, and in some bizzare scene, goes about stealing stuff from Bruce's mansion under the delusion that he's in some bizzare shopping contest, until finally old Batman comes out and slaps some sense into him. That's the clearest thing I recall, so let's just say in any case that going into the show my expectations wouldn't be too hard to surpass.

BTW what's the picture from?

[Mr.Bookworm]

The picture did cheer me up some, I suppose. Actually, one episode taht stuck out in my mind was where the kid had some sort of hallucination thingy put on him, and in some bizzare scene, goes about stealing stuff from Bruce's mansion under the delusion that he's in some bizzare shopping contest, until finally old Batman comes out and slaps some sense into him. That's the clearest thing I recall, so let's just say in any case that going into the show my expectations wouldn't be too hard to surpass.

Don't remember that episode, but I do need to rewatch it. Still, yeah, watch it and TAS. They're both easily some of the greatest cartoons ever put on television.


BTW what's the picture from?

Superman: Red Son, a Superman Elsewheres story, where Superman crash lands in the Ukraine during the beginning of the Cold War instead of Kansas, and is thus raised on Communist ideals. Things roll from there. Easily the best thing Mark Millar has ever written, at least in my opinion.

[TheMinxTail]

yeah, that was the movie.


If you're starting from scratch, I'd recommend (in order)

Batman: Year One
Batman: The Long Halloween
Batman: Dark Victory

This will establish how Batman started up, how he got some of his enemies, how Robin fits into the picture, etc. Plus, they're just good stories.

Aside from that, other really good batman stories are:

The Killing Joke (one of the best joker stories ever)
Dark Knight Returns (basically, what happens to Batman in the future)
Justice League: Tower of Babel (note: skip the first part of the book where the justice league goes inside some kid. It's dumb and doesn't relate to the rest of the story. After that part, however, is an awesome story about Batman & his paranoia)


I'd also recommend looking into Batman: The Animated Series. It's a great look at the core Batman universe, and establishes nearly all of the villains and how they relate to batman. It's a cartoon, but one that can easily be enjoyed by adults. Plus, if you like Harley Quinn, this is where she came from. She was invented in the Animated Series (and the episode featuring her called: "Mad Love" is one of the best episodes I've ever seen)

You can pick up the animated series on Amazon here (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_26?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=batman+the+animated+series&x=0&y=0&sprefix=batman+the+animated+series)

Well, with all these recommendations for the animated series, I guess I have to check it out. There's something I should have been less ambiguous about though, and I'll shortly ammend teh original post, but after getting a decent introduction I intend to start reading a continuity of some sort - as in an ongoing or possibly disconmtinued serial, and I have it on good authority taht they don't all follow the same canon. I'll check out the stories you recommended me to, but where do I go from there if I like those?

As mentioned previously, there is some anthropological merit to studying the cultural impact of comic books, and since so many people follow the ongoing stories, it would be improper treatment of SCIENCE to not do my bets to greater assume those conditions. By which I mean, I kind of want to understand all media so I can reverse engineer good stories to make my own story telling far, far better.

[TheMinxTail]

Don't remember that episode, but I do need to rewatch it. Still, yeah, watch it and TAS. They're both easily some of the greatest cartoons ever put on television.



Superman: Red Son, a Superman Elsewheres story, where Superman crash lands in the Ukraine during the beginning of the Cold War instead of Kansas, and is thus raised on Communist ideals. Things roll from there. Easily the best thing Mark Millar has ever written, at least in my opinion.

Oh, I know what the Red Sun thing is about, by why is Batman there? You know what, never mind, I'm now interested enough to check this stuff out for myself.

[Gnoman]

Red Son Batman

In Red Son, Batman is the son of soviet dissidents that were executed by Stalin for putting up anti-supeman propaganda. This version of Batman is a full-scale terrorist rather than a vigilante.

[Barbarian MD]

I started with Knightfall and Death in te Family. Batman the animated series was my real source of education when I was a kid, though.

Also, you can find the collected weeklies from the 30s in some public libraries, which are both boring, interesting, and awesome all at the same time. Old school!

[TheMinxTail]

I started with Knightfall and Death in te Family. Batman the animated series was my real source of education when I was a kid, though.

Also, you can find the collected weeklies from the 30s in some public libraries, which are both boring, interesting, and awesome all at the same time. Old school!

Libraries, eh? I think I saw something like that at the library down the street once. I'm not particularly keen on the idea of looking up Golden Age stuff though. I mean, I saw Silver Age comics and that stuff is WEIRD. And poorly written and drawn. But mostly WEIRD. Still though, might read a few at some point for laughs.

[TheMinxTail]

Just finished Arkham Asylum (game) and watched Batman Begins. Good game with lame ending. I think the film was good, but I don't THINK it was the traditional as-seen-in-comics origin story, though it certainly worked better as a movie. I mean, it's a full hour in when we finally see Wayne in costume and here the line 'I'm Batman.' I actualy think that line was kind of goofy. I mean, I always preferred superhero movies where the media names teh hero - it makes their silly names seem a lot more plausible - like towards the end of Ironman the newspapers start reporting on a Man of Iron or something like that. Seeing as these were mostly golden and silver age names, it makes it way less goofy as an introduction in a modern context.

Looking forward to Arkham City, but since there probably won't be any Joker in the next movie on account of the actor no longer being amongst the living, I figured I better get my Joker-fix from the comics. Would it be terrible to start with the Long Halloween? (I THINK that was the one with Joker, though I could be mixing it up quite easily.)

EDIT: BTW what's the general concensus on teh quality of the Tim Burton Batman movies? I saw a box set down the shop that unfortunately also came with Batman and Robin (which I unfortunately recall in much greater detail than TB's stuff) and was wondering if it was worth buying. Then again, I think there's a Rifftrax for Batman and Robin...

[H Birchgrove]

If you would like the original Bob Kane/Bill Finger/et al comics, try The Batman Chronicles.

I like the movies by Tim Burton, and when I'm charitable, the Joel Schumacher films too, though those aren't really about Batman.

[Gnoman]

Libraries, eh? I think I saw something like that at the library down the street once. I'm not particularly keen on the idea of looking up Golden Age stuff though. I mean, I saw Silver Age comics and that stuff is WEIRD. And poorly written and drawn. But mostly WEIRD. Still though, might read a few at some point for laughs.

The Silver Age is bizzare becuase of the strict Comics Code that was forced down publisher's throats. Golden Age stuff is both more sensible and far more serious.

[Talbot]

Ok. I'm an enormous comic book dork, so apologies for length. I'll stick a TL:DR at the end if you're in a hurry.

I recommend starting with the Long Halloween. You say you're interested in the characters, and while Year One is great, it's basically just the origin story and Batman scaring a bunch of mobsters. Long Halloween really establishes him as a detective, and develops his rogues' gallery (almost all the major players get their moments). If you dig that, Dark Victory is the sequel, and is more of the same.

After that, see if you can track down "Dead Reckoning", which is another story that highlights his Rogues (and Scarecrow especially) while setting up another fantastic mystery. It also (intentionally or not) builds on a lot of the themes from Long Halloween.

From there, you have a number of options.

Batman: No Man's Land is incredibly long (over 80 issues if you count all the tie ins), but the central stuff is great. It has cream-of-the-crop moments for Scarecrow, Two-Face, Joker, Penguin, Ivy, Clayface, and Bane, as well as appearances from pretty much everyone else and a really interesting premise that highlights the importance of Batman (long story short, the US government declares Gotham a DMZ, and with no police or Batman for the first three months, the city is quickly carved up into gang territories, with the most dominant factions lead by Two-Face, Penguin, Joker, Scarface, Lynx, and Commisioner Gordon). Also includes a lot of good moments for his supporting heroes, particularly Gordon, Montoya, and Huntress.

Batman: Hush is a more "mainstream" approach to a Long Halloween style story, again introducing a mystery and highlighting the various rogues, but with more of an emphasis on big action sequences (including Batman vs. Superman).

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns is an alternate future where Batman is old, slightly crazy, and somehow even more badass than usual.

The Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum are both chilling stand-alones that get enough love without me singing their praises.

Batman: Going Sane is an interesting character study centered around Batman and the Joker, initiated when Joker believes that he's killed Batman. Joker defaults to a normal life, while Batman rehabilitates himself in a nearby idyllic town, and both are largely happier for leaving the violence behind them. This, of course, does not last.

Arkham Asylum: Living Hell is a miniseries focused on the goings-on inside the asylum, and explores a lot of Batman's more obscure villains. It's very, very good and introduces the Great White Shark.

JLA v3 #16-17 and Prometheus: New Year's Evil introduce the evil equivalent of Batman, a child orphaned by the police who pledges war on justice, and uses his criminal parent's fortune to travel the world and learn from the greatest masters (there's a similar character called The Wrath, but those stories aren't quite as good, IMO). Prometheus eventually tries to destroy the Justice League, which leads him to go toe to toe with Batman.

Batman: Streets of Gotham, Gotham City Sirens and Batman: Gotham Underground are books that are primarily concerned with everyone in Gotham who isn't Batman. They vary in quality, but some of it is fantastic, particularly when they focus on the "facilitators" of the Gotham underworld (I.E., the guy who sells all the villains their secret hideouts, and the girl who builds all the deathtraps). All three books also have a really fun take on the Riddler, who at that point is a private detective and more-or-less not evil.

Grant Morrison's Batman run is continuity heavy, but very, very good.

Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin is not continuity heavy at all, and turns the classic formula of "brooding Batman, upbeat Robin" on its head to great effect. Morrison also writes one of the better Jokers out there.

Batman Confidential #22-25 retell Batman's first encounter with the Joker, and really get the character "right". Most writers tend too lean either towards Joker-as-violent psychopath or Joker-as-delusional clown, but this one plays it right down the middle to great effect.

Both 52 and Trinity focus on a "world without Batman" in different ways. While both series include literally scores of obscure characters, both are pretty good about explaining who they are, and both are very, very good stories that serve to highlight the importance of Batman while playing up less famous characters.

The current run of Batgirl doesn't really involve Batman very much, but it's about the most fun you can have in a comic book right now, so it deserves a mention. One issue involves Batgirl and Supergirl teaming up to fight twenty-four black-and-white Bela Lugosi Draculas. It's fantastic.

Detective Comics #755 is a wonderful stand-alone story about Gordon and Two-Face by the same writer who did the great Two-Face bits in No Man's Land.

Paul Dini's Detective Comics run was mostly fun one or two issue lighthearted Batman stories, until the abyssmal Heart of Hush storyline, and worth checking out up to that point.

If you're big on Ras Al Ghul, the old Denny O'Neil issues are the place to start, with Legacy and the aforementioned JLA: Tower of Babel being the places to go from there. If you dig on Bane, Bane of the Demon is one of the only stories post Nightfall that remembers he's supposed to be about as smart as Batman, and dovetails nicely with Legacy.


That oughtta be enough to get you started :)

TL;DR: Start with Long Halloween, use that to figure out which characters you like, then go from there.

[thompur]

Ok. I'm an enormous comic book dork, so apologies for length. I'll stick a TL:DR at the end if you're in a hurry.

I recommend starting with the Long Halloween. You say you're interested in the characters, and while Year One is great, it's basically just the origin story and Batman scaring a bunch of mobsters. Long Halloween really establishes him as a detective, and develops his rogues' gallery (almost all the major players get their moments). If you dig that, Dark Victory is the sequel, and is more of the same.

After that, see if you can track down "Dead Reckoning", which is another story that highlights his Rogues (and Scarecrow especially) while setting up another fantastic mystery. It also (intentionally or not) builds on a lot of the themes from Long Halloween.

From there, you have a number of options.

Batman: No Man's Land is incredibly long (over 80 issues if you count all the tie ins), but the central stuff is great. It has cream-of-the-crop moments for Scarecrow, Two-Face, Joker, Penguin, Ivy, Clayface, and Bane, as well as appearances from pretty much everyone else and a really interesting premise that highlights the importance of Batman (long story short, the US government declares Gotham a DMZ, and with no police or Batman for the first three months, the city is quickly carved up into gang territories, with the most dominant factions lead by Two-Face, Penguin, Joker, Scarface, Lynx, and Commisioner Gordon). Also includes a lot of good moments for his supporting heroes, particularly Gordon, Montoya, and Huntress.

Batman: Hush is a more "mainstream" approach to a Long Halloween style story, again introducing a mystery and highlighting the various rogues, but with more of an emphasis on big action sequences (including Batman vs. Superman).

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns is an alternate future where Batman is old, slightly crazy, and somehow even more badass than usual.

The Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum are both chilling stand-alones that get enough love without me singing their praises.

Batman: Going Sane is an interesting character study centered around Batman and the Joker, initiated when Joker believes that he's killed Batman. Joker defaults to a normal life, while Batman rehabilitates himself in a nearby idyllic town, and both are largely happier for leaving the violence behind them. This, of course, does not last.

Arkham Asylum: Living Hell is a miniseries focused on the goings-on inside the asylum, and explores a lot of Batman's more obscure villains. It's very, very good and introduces the Great White Shark.

JLA v3 #16-17 and Prometheus: New Year's Evil introduce the evil equivalent of Batman, a child orphaned by the police who pledges war on justice, and uses his criminal parent's fortune to travel the world and learn from the greatest masters (there's a similar character called The Wrath, but those stories aren't quite as good, IMO). Prometheus eventually tries to destroy the Justice League, which leads him to go toe to toe with Batman.

Batman: Streets of Gotham, Gotham City Sirens and Batman: Gotham Underground are books that are primarily concerned with everyone in Gotham who isn't Batman. They vary in quality, but some of it is fantastic, particularly when they focus on the "facilitators" of the Gotham underworld (I.E., the guy who sells all the villains their secret hideouts, and the girl who builds all the deathtraps). All three books also have a really fun take on the Riddler, who at that point is a private detective and more-or-less not evil.

Grant Morrison's Batman run is continuity heavy, but very, very good.

Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin is not continuity heavy at all, and turns the classic formula of "brooding Batman, upbeat Robin" on its head to great effect. Morrison also writes one of the better Jokers out there.

Batman Confidential #22-25 retell Batman's first encounter with the Joker, and really get the character "right". Most writers tend too lean either towards Joker-as-violent psychopath or Joker-as-delusional clown, but this one plays it right down the middle to great effect.

Both 52 and Trinity focus on a "world without Batman" in different ways. While both series include literally scores of obscure characters, both are pretty good about explaining who they are, and both are very, very good stories that serve to highlight the importance of Batman while playing up less famous characters.

The current run of Batgirl doesn't really involve Batman very much, but it's about the most fun you can have in a comic book right now, so it deserves a mention. One issue involves Batgirl and Supergirl teaming up to fight twenty-four black-and-white Bela Lugosi Draculas. It's fantastic.

Detective Comics #755 is a wonderful stand-alone story about Gordon and Two-Face by the same writer who did the great Two-Face bits in No Man's Land.

Paul Dini's Detective Comics run was mostly fun one or two issue lighthearted Batman stories, until the abyssmal Heart of Hush storyline, and worth checking out up to that point.

If you're big on Ras Al Ghul, the old Denny O'Neil issues are the place to start, with Legacy and the aforementioned JLA: Tower of Babel being the places to go from there. If you dig on Bane, Bane of the Demon is one of the only stories post Nightfall that remembers he's supposed to be about as smart as Batman, and dovetails nicely with Legacy.


That oughtta be enough to get you started :)

TL;DR: Start with Long Halloween, use that to figure out which characters you like, then go from there.

Darn. Ninja'd. :smallwink:

[TheMinxTail]

Ok. I'm an enormous comic book dork, so apologies for length. I'll stick a TL:DR at the end if you're in a hurry.

I recommend starting with the Long Halloween. You say you're interested in the characters, and while Year One is great, it's basically just the origin story and Batman scaring a bunch of mobsters. Long Halloween really establishes him as a detective, and develops his rogues' gallery (almost all the major players get their moments). If you dig that, Dark Victory is the sequel, and is more of the same.

After that, see if you can track down "Dead Reckoning", which is another story that highlights his Rogues (and Scarecrow especially) while setting up another fantastic mystery. It also (intentionally or not) builds on a lot of the themes from Long Halloween.

From there, you have a number of options.

Batman: No Man's Land is incredibly long (over 80 issues if you count all the tie ins), but the central stuff is great. It has cream-of-the-crop moments for Scarecrow, Two-Face, Joker, Penguin, Ivy, Clayface, and Bane, as well as appearances from pretty much everyone else and a really interesting premise that highlights the importance of Batman (long story short, the US government declares Gotham a DMZ, and with no police or Batman for the first three months, the city is quickly carved up into gang territories, with the most dominant factions lead by Two-Face, Penguin, Joker, Scarface, Lynx, and Commisioner Gordon). Also includes a lot of good moments for his supporting heroes, particularly Gordon, Montoya, and Huntress.

Batman: Hush is a more "mainstream" approach to a Long Halloween style story, again introducing a mystery and highlighting the various rogues, but with more of an emphasis on big action sequences (including Batman vs. Superman).

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns is an alternate future where Batman is old, slightly crazy, and somehow even more badass than usual.

The Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum are both chilling stand-alones that get enough love without me singing their praises.

Batman: Going Sane is an interesting character study centered around Batman and the Joker, initiated when Joker believes that he's killed Batman. Joker defaults to a normal life, while Batman rehabilitates himself in a nearby idyllic town, and both are largely happier for leaving the violence behind them. This, of course, does not last.

Arkham Asylum: Living Hell is a miniseries focused on the goings-on inside the asylum, and explores a lot of Batman's more obscure villains. It's very, very good and introduces the Great White Shark.

JLA v3 #16-17 and Prometheus: New Year's Evil introduce the evil equivalent of Batman, a child orphaned by the police who pledges war on justice, and uses his criminal parent's fortune to travel the world and learn from the greatest masters (there's a similar character called The Wrath, but those stories aren't quite as good, IMO). Prometheus eventually tries to destroy the Justice League, which leads him to go toe to toe with Batman.

Batman: Streets of Gotham, Gotham City Sirens and Batman: Gotham Underground are books that are primarily concerned with everyone in Gotham who isn't Batman. They vary in quality, but some of it is fantastic, particularly when they focus on the "facilitators" of the Gotham underworld (I.E., the guy who sells all the villains their secret hideouts, and the girl who builds all the deathtraps). All three books also have a really fun take on the Riddler, who at that point is a private detective and more-or-less not evil.

Grant Morrison's Batman run is continuity heavy, but very, very good.

Grant Morrison's Batman and Robin is not continuity heavy at all, and turns the classic formula of "brooding Batman, upbeat Robin" on its head to great effect. Morrison also writes one of the better Jokers out there.

Batman Confidential #22-25 retell Batman's first encounter with the Joker, and really get the character "right". Most writers tend too lean either towards Joker-as-violent psychopath or Joker-as-delusional clown, but this one plays it right down the middle to great effect.

Both 52 and Trinity focus on a "world without Batman" in different ways. While both series include literally scores of obscure characters, both are pretty good about explaining who they are, and both are very, very good stories that serve to highlight the importance of Batman while playing up less famous characters.

The current run of Batgirl doesn't really involve Batman very much, but it's about the most fun you can have in a comic book right now, so it deserves a mention. One issue involves Batgirl and Supergirl teaming up to fight twenty-four black-and-white Bela Lugosi Draculas. It's fantastic.

Detective Comics #755 is a wonderful stand-alone story about Gordon and Two-Face by the same writer who did the great Two-Face bits in No Man's Land.

Paul Dini's Detective Comics run was mostly fun one or two issue lighthearted Batman stories, until the abyssmal Heart of Hush storyline, and worth checking out up to that point.

If you're big on Ras Al Ghul, the old Denny O'Neil issues are the place to start, with Legacy and the aforementioned JLA: Tower of Babel being the places to go from there. If you dig on Bane, Bane of the Demon is one of the only stories post Nightfall that remembers he's supposed to be about as smart as Batman, and dovetails nicely with Legacy.


That oughtta be enough to get you started :)

TL;DR: Start with Long Halloween, use that to figure out which characters you like, then go from there.

Right, at some point I skipped to the tl;dr not because of length but because I felt you were maybe giving away a bit much of some of teh stories and I usually prefer to go into things blind when I can. As per your suggestion though, I'll grab a Long Halloween then probably go for No Man's Land. Thanks a lot!

[TheMinxTail]

The Silver Age is bizzare becuase of the strict Comics Code that was forced down publisher's throats. Golden Age stuff is both more sensible and far more serious.

Really? I saw a scan of the first Superman comic from before hey decided he could fly, so he indignantly jumped everywhere. In fairness though, the original Batman story did capture a fair bit of the essence of the character as he exists now, and I THINK that qualified as being in teh Golden Age. I guess in the case of Superman it's just taht he's hard to take too seriously at the best of times - though in fairness he isn't my cup of tea.

I believe the Silver Age coincided with the Adam West Batman, didn't it? What sort of strict code are we talking about anyway - stories have to be sci-fi nonsense with forced exposition of things that the artwork makes blatantly obvious?

[TheMinxTail]

If you would like the original Bob Kane/Bill Finger/et al comics, try The Batman Chronicles.

I like the movies by Tim Burton, and when I'm charitable, the Joel Schumacher films too, though those aren't really about Batman.

I know what you mean about the Schuma.... ah **** it, it isn't worth it for me to even bother reading teh previous post to figure out how his name is spelled. Frankly, I wouldn't mind him at all if he had his own line of films. Buit to some degree or another, it was considered to be in canon with the Burton movies, which completely ****s everyone over. Though Batman and Robin is at least hilariously bad even without Rifftrax assistance, so I guess I wouldn't erase it from history. But as for them not being about Batman, I agree on mor elevels than just the overarching emotional theme of the movies - the actual charcater of Batman doesn't exactly do much.

[Talbot]

Right, at some point I skipped to the tl;dr not because of length but because I felt you were maybe giving away a bit much of some of teh stories and I usually prefer to go into things blind when I can. As per your suggestion though, I'll grab a Long Halloween then probably go for No Man's Land. Thanks a lot!

Ok, here's a shortened list for you with just the titles:

Long Halloween
Dark Victory
No Man's Land
Dead Reckoning
Going Sane
Dini's Detective Comics run (not Heart of Hush)
Batgirl (current run)
Detective Comics 755
Batman Confidential 22-25
Gotham City Sirens
Arkham Asylum: Living Hell
Streets of Gotham
Gotham Underground
JLA 16-17, Prometheus: New Year's Evil
Killing Joke
Dark Knight Returns
Morrison's Batman run
Morrison's Batman & Robin run
52
Trinity

[TheMinxTail]

Ok, here's a shortened list for you with just the titles:

Long Halloween
Dark Victory
No Man's Land
Dead Reckoning
Going Sane
Dini's Detective Comics run (not Heart of Hush)
Batgirl (current run)
Detective Comics 755
Batman Confidential 22-25
Gotham City Sirens
Arkham Asylum: Living Hell
Streets of Gotham
Gotham Underground
JLA 16-17, Prometheus: New Year's Evil
Killing Joke
Dark Knight Returns
Morrison's Batman run
Morrison's Batman & Robin run
52
Trinity

Thanks! Isn't 52 and Trinity a big year long weekly crossover event? Or at least that's what the wikipedia said. I heard 52 focusses on a bunch of side characters, and in any case a big crossover might be a tad newcomer-unfriendly, wouldn't it? Or would it serve as a good means and introduction to branching out from Batamn to the other DC stories? I'm sure it's quite good, I'm just wondering if it would be good to read if I had only really read Batman. And Watchmen I guess, but I doubt they come into it. Either way, I'll probably eventually check it out, but probably not for a while. And my copy of Long Halloween is in the post.

[Talbot]

52 is a "real time" (each issue spans a week) story chronicling a year in the DCU where Bats/Supes/Wondy are not around. It was pretty much conceived specifically to highlight less-known characters for newer readers, so it's very newbie friendly. It's written by the four top guys at DC at the time (Morrison, Rucka, Waid, and Johns. Morrison and Johns are still the top guys, Waid's gone, not sure what Rucka is upto).

Trinity is a series spotlighting Bats/Supes/Wondy, and their importance to the DCU at large, largely through the lens of their supporting casts and the people they've influenced. It is also quite newby friendly. I won't say more for fear of ruining your "cold" approach to the plot.

[TheMinxTail]

52 is a "real time" (each issue spans a week) story chronicling a year in the DCU where Bats/Supes/Wondy are not around. It was pretty much conceived specifically to highlight less-known characters for newer readers, so it's very newbie friendly. It's written by the four top guys at DC at the time (Morrison, Rucka, Waid, and Johns. Morrison and Johns are still the top guys, Waid's gone, not sure what Rucka is upto).

Trinity is a series spotlighting Bats/Supes/Wondy, and their importance to the DCU at large, largely through the lens of their supporting casts and the people they've influenced. It is also quite newby friendly. I won't say more for fear of ruining your "cold" approach to the plot.

Oh, gotcha. I'll add that to my list of things to find then. I still have the Long Halloween in the post, so I'll be wanting to read that first. I don;t know if finding a collection of all those 52 issues would be particularly easy at this point, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thanks!

[TheMinxTail]

After completing Arkham Asylum (the game) I think this succinctly sums up my impression of a few of the puzzles hat the Riddler posed.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20060503.gif

I mean, I didn't get all of them, but most of them I did get were out in the open and given away with really obvious clues, or I used Detective Vision near-constantly and tripped over about 3 dozen of the trophies by accident (not exact number). Does the Riddler have some sort of superpower for making annoying puzzles? I mean, I know it's his thing, but how the hell was he able to hide all these trophies around Arkham from behind his cell - the gae didn't mention if he got loose or not, and even if he had, where did he find the time to scatter puzzles all around the place in areas that even Batman had trouble reaching? Is there some alternate ending if you find all his collectables where you nab him and slam his stupid face against the wall when he;s halfway through explaining an elaborate riddle?

[TheMinxTail]

Hate to spam my own forum, but does anyone know of a decent site to find the issues recommended to me? Ebay is a bit hesitant to cough up no. 1 issues - being in Britain, you kind of have to take what you can get on that site. So is there any good way to get individual issues at a reasonable price?

Come to think of it, there was a convention nearby a couple of months back, but all I got out of it was Marvel Zombies vs Army of Darkness and a picture with me and Darth Vader. Well, okay, I guess I had a good enough time, though I really should've asked around before going. No one to blame but myself.

[Talbot]

Hate to spam my own forum, but does anyone know of a decent site to find the issues recommended to me? Ebay is a bit hesitant to cough up no. 1 issues - being in Britain, you kind of have to take what you can get on that site. So is there any good way to get individual issues at a reasonable price?

Come to think of it, there was a convention nearby a couple of months back, but all I got out of it was Marvel Zombies vs Army of Darkness and a picture with me and Darth Vader. Well, okay, I guess I had a good enough time, though I really should've asked around before going. No one to blame but myself.

Almost everything I suggested except for the individual issues should be available from, like, Amazon or Barnes and Noble. 52 and Trinity were both collected into trades (four books each), as were most if not all of the stories I listed besides. Hope that helps!.

PS: While I'm not advocating it, it's fairly easy to get digital copies of most comics and DC/Marvel are much less angsty about piracy than the film or music industries.

[TheMinxTail]

Almost everything I suggested except for the individual issues should be available from, like, Amazon or Barnes and Noble. 52 and Trinity were both collected into trades (four books each), as were most if not all of the stories I listed besides. Hope that helps!.

PS: While I'm not advocating it, it's fairly easy to get digital copies of most comics and DC/Marvel are much less angsty about piracy than the film or music industries.

Shh! We all know that, but we're not supposed to say it ;)

Right then, I think I have a good enough path to start on now. Now if my damned Long Halloween copy would just arrive I'll be happy. I'm moving onto Arkham Asylum after that I think since I found it going cheap, and I'll pretty much just work through your list, since it's so darned convenient.

[Talbot]

Happy to help. And if you don't like something, just skip it. There's plenty of Batman out there.

[Icewalker]

Looks like I might want to get and read through a couple of things. I'm reading The Dark Knight Returns for a class on myth here in college, which I'm pretty excited about. :smallbiggrin: Looks like I should pick up a couple others and read through them first though.