American Gods movie in works [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

JabberwockySupafly

2011-03-29, 07:17 PM

Never heard of it, but if it's by the same guy who did Sandman then it's worth checking out.

Guh...Deh....Buh.... You never heard of American Gods?! E Gads man, do yourself a favour and pick a copy of it up pronto. It's Gaiman's best (non-graphic) work by a large margin. Hell, I re-read it about once a month because it's just that good.

As for the movie thing? I'm highly, highly suspect of this idea. Not because I don't think it will happen, because it probably will, but because Hollywood has a way of taking things I love and ruining them. Plus, to be honest, 120-180 minutes of screen time is not enough to give American Gods enough justice. There's a lot of stuff in that book that simply can't be cut due to plot relevance.

That being said, I did watch the interview clip with Gaiman, and he couldn't seem to praise the director enough (plus the phrase "Many, many Oscars" doesn't hurt my expectations either). Generally if the creator is optimistic, then things should turn out alright.

Now, the big questions are, who is the director? And of course, who are they going to get for the different roles? Therre are so many memorable characters in the books it'd be interesting to see if they get any big names to take part. ..

Kris Strife

2011-03-29, 07:31 PM

Never heard of it, but if it's by the same guy who did Sandman then it's worth checking out.

Just fair warning... (http://exterminatusnow.co.uk/2006-09-08/comic/non-storyline/randoms/supersize-dentata/)

Dr.Epic

2011-03-29, 08:02 PM

Guh...Deh....Buh.... You never heard of American Gods?! E Gads man, do yourself a favour and pick a copy of it up pronto. It's Gaiman's best (non-graphic) work by a large margin. Hell, I re-read it about once a month because it's just that good.

Well just for that, I'm not sure if I want to read it. Now if you told me it was awful and not to check it out, that'd be another thing. It's the reason I want to check out Last Air Bender. All my friends tell me it's horrible.

Just fair warning... (http://exterminatusnow.co.uk/2006-09-08/comic/non-storyline/randoms/supersize-dentata/)

At least it's not haunted (like in some comics).:smallwink:

WalkingTarget

2011-03-29, 08:36 PM

Well just for that, I'm not sure if I want to read it. Now if you told me it was awful and not to check it out, that'd be another thing. It's the reason I want to check out Last Air Bender. All my friends tell me it's horrible.

For a more subdued response:

American Gods is one of my favorite novels (for fairly personal reasons), but people tend to have a love-it-or-hate-it reaction to it.

Part of the issue with it is that one of the themes is sex and sexuality and he doesn't ignore the fact that, historically, such things weren't necessarily nice or pretty, especially in myth. This turns some people off of the book.

Concerning a possible film version? It could work. I'd like it to be rated R so that they can develop the aforementioned themes without pulling punches. I'm concerned that certain mystery aspects of it work better as text on the page than as film and, as with a lot of film adaptations, the imagery they choose probably won't can't match what I have in my head. Choosing a particular actor to portray Shadow is also likely to annoy people - he's intentionally a blank character for the audience to project onto and, while there are a few clues, most characters he meets have trouble pinning down even his ethnicity.

Dr.Epic

2011-03-29, 08:38 PM

For a more subdued response:

American Gods is one of my favorite novels (for fairly personal reasons), but people tend to have a love-it-or-hate-it reaction to it.

Part of the issue with it is that one of the themes is sex and sexuality and he doesn't ignore the fact that, historically, such things weren't necessarily nice or pretty, especially in myth. This turns some people off of the book.

Meh, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me it's Troll 2 bad before I read. Simply telling me it's controversial doesn't make me want to read it. Watchmen is controversial and I loves it. Come on peoples! If you want me to read something, tell me not to read something.

BiblioRook

2011-03-29, 09:12 PM

American Gods was the first book I've read of Neil Gaiman (way back in late middle school or early high school before I ever so much as heard his name mentioned before. I bought the book simply because I liked mythology and the author and I shared a first name.), and from there I was able to go to Good Omens which introduced me to Terry Pratchett. So that alone makes me look back on this book fondly, even if it's not my favorite of his.

I was thinking though. Excluding Sandman, this is the last of his books that crossed over to film, isn't it? Stardust and Coraline everyone knows about, Graveyard books seems to be in the works, Good Omens is being worked on as a mini-series and Neverwhere started out as a mini-series I believe. As for Anansi Boys, well, it got close but was utterly scraped due to corporate muddling (they wanted an all-white cast, to those that know the book I'll let you take that as you will).

The Glyphstone

2011-03-29, 09:29 PM

Meh, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me it's Troll 2 bad before I read. Simply telling me it's controversial doesn't make me want to read it. Watchmen is controversial and I loves it. Come on peoples! If you want me to read something, tell me not to read something.

Don't read it. It's so good, you will die afterwards. You will lie in your bed and slowly starve to death while staring at nothing, because in your heart you know that no earthly experience will ever match up to having read American Gods.

How's that?

Soras Teva Gee

2011-03-29, 09:39 PM

Guh...Deh....Buh.... You never heard of American Gods?! E Gads man, do yourself a favour and pick a copy of it up pronto. It's Gaiman's best (non-graphic) work by a large margin. Hell, I re-read it about once a month because it's just that good.

For me American Gods is just a re-tread of Sandman.

Seriously the entire book could be condense into a short and not particularly memorable part of... the Dream Country I think.

JonestheSpy

2011-03-30, 02:10 AM

For me American Gods is just a re-tread of Sandman.

Seriously the entire book could be condense into a short and not particularly memorable part of... the Dream Country I think.

Yeah, this. Gaimen definitely was mining his earlier work for the book. I liked American Gods while reading it, and it was compelling enough to make it hard to put down, but in the end it was pretty much like eating a whole bag of potato chips - fun while it lasted, but not very good afterward, and when you're done you realize it was more the junk-food addictiveness rather than quality that kept you going.

The thing I liked least is how Gaimen so stacked the deck in his scenario of "The old pagan gods are beaten down tramps that no one respects." He had one scene where he blew off the entire neopagan community as ignorant hippy dippy airheads because the idea of active worshipers of older gods just didn't fit in with his picture. But far more egregious was his complete and total erasing of Christianity from the gameboard. I mean, how can you possibly explore the concept of old gods being imported to America by their followers and competing with new deities of media, technology, etc and not mention the major religion of the country? It really seemed to me that Gaimen just was too chicken to deal with that, so he pretended that the elephant in the room wasn't there.

On the other hand, I thought the semi-sequel Anansi Boys was a much better book. A movie adaptation of that could be pretty interesting.

Eldan

2011-03-30, 02:57 AM

For a more subdued response:

American Gods is one of my favorite novels (for fairly personal reasons), but people tend to have a love-it-or-hate-it reaction to it.

Part of the issue with it is that one of the themes is sex and sexuality and he doesn't ignore the fact that, historically, such things weren't necessarily nice or pretty, especially in myth. This turns some people off of the book.

Hmm. I don't have that kind of response, no. I'm kinda ambivalent about it, really. I usually like Gaiman a lot, but American Gods, I thought, wasn't particularly good. Not bad, mind you, just a bit bland compared to his other stuff.

BiblioRook

2011-03-30, 04:10 AM

On the other hand, I thought the semi-sequel Anansi Boys was a much better book. A movie adaptation of that could be pretty interesting.

Sadly, as I mentioned already, there's a good chance we lost our chance to see that happen. So much corporate muddling made Gaiman remove the option altogether in that not having it made into a movie was a better option to having a movie made that was an openly and clearly a travesty...

Jamin

2011-03-30, 07:28 AM

I found American Gods soooooo boring I waited the whole book for something interesting to happen. I like Gaiman's other works but American Gods I found to be very uninteresting.

Mauve Shirt

2011-03-30, 07:39 AM

Meh, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me it's Troll 2 bad before I read. Simply telling me it's controversial doesn't make me want to read it. Watchmen is controversial and I loves it. Come on peoples! If you want me to read something, tell me not to read something.

Don't read it. You'd hate it, especially if you liked Sandman. :smallyuk:
I liked Anansi Boys better. I actually enjoyed AG, but here goes.

Killer Angel

2011-03-30, 07:58 AM

Guh...Deh....Buh.... You never heard of American Gods?! E Gads man, do yourself a favour and pick a copy of it up pronto. It's Gaiman's best (non-graphic) work by a large margin. Hell, I re-read it about once a month because it's just that good.

Absolutely, can't beat Neverwhere.
AG it's good, but imo not exceptional. In it's best parts, I'll only found faint echoes of the best Sandman's athmospheres.

comicshorse

2011-03-30, 08:11 AM

I was thinking though. Excluding Sandman, this is the last of his books that crossed over to film, isn't it? Stardust and Coraline everyone knows about, Graveyard books seems to be in the works, Good Omens is being worked on as a mini-series and Neverwhere started out as a mini-series I believe. As for Anansi Boys, well, it got close but was utterly scraped due to corporate muddling (they wanted an all-white cast, to those that know the book I'll let you take that as you will).

He's got several books of short stories that haven't been adapted yet.

And yes 'American Gods' is great.

Mathis

2011-03-30, 08:17 AM

Yeah, this. Gaimen definitely was mining his earlier work for the book. I liked American Gods while reading it, and it was compelling enough to make it hard to put down, but in the end it was pretty much like eating a whole bag of potato chips - fun while it lasted, but not very good afterward, and when you're done you realize it was more the junk-food addictiveness rather than quality that kept you going.

The thing I liked least is how Gaimen so stacked the deck in his scenario of "The old pagan gods are beaten down tramps that no one respects." He had one scene where he blew off the entire neopagan community as ignorant hippy dippy airheads because the idea of active worshipers of older gods just didn't fit in with his picture. But far more egregious was his complete and total erasing of Christianity from the gameboard. I mean, how can you possibly explore the concept of old gods being imported to America by their followers and competing with new deities of media, technology, etc and not mention the major religion of the country? It really seemed to me that Gaimen just was too chicken to deal with that, so he pretended that the elephant in the room wasn't there.

On the other hand, I thought the semi-sequel Anansi Boys was a much better book. A movie adaptation of that could be pretty interesting.

First off, I think you mean Neil Gaiman, not Gaimen. Secondly, regarding the christianity thing you're wrong. He does mention it, several times. The mentions are passing phrases, but Jesus gets a tip of the hat. If I can find my copy of the book I'll see if I can't find the pagenumber for you.

All in all, I liked it. It's a nice entertaining read with likeable and memorable characters. I had read Sandman before I read American Gods so I recognized some of the characters and was familiar with how worship and the power of gods work in his world. I think anyone who picks up this book is going to have a few enjoyable hours ahead of them, it's a good book. I mean, it's not great, but it's good and better than most.

thorgrim29

2011-03-30, 10:53 AM

Doesn't Wednesday mention Jesus hitchhiking in palestine or something like that?

The Glyphstone

2011-03-30, 10:54 AM

India, I think.

WalkingTarget

2011-03-30, 12:01 PM

The thing is, he wasn't addressing prominent belief systems in the first place. The gods that Wednesday is pulling together are the ones without followers/much belief these days. That's the whole point.

That's why I think the Greco-Roman pantheon is largely absent - while they might not get much in the way of active belief, there's still a fair amount of head space that they get in popular culture that allows them to stay out of Wednesday's plan (or that's my interpretation at least).

Eldan

2011-03-30, 01:07 PM

Selrahc

2011-03-30, 01:15 PM

For me American Gods is just a re-tread of Sandman.

Seriously the entire book could be condense into a short and not particularly memorable part of... the Dream Country I think.

Dream Country was a series of short stories taking place in a world where myth and reality collide, often in frightening and unexpected ways.

Every single book Gaiman has ever written has been a crossover between myth and reality. You can call all of his books a retread of ground he first went over in Sandman.

But Sandman covered a lot of ground, conceptually. I think looking at some of the same/similar ideas in different ways is a good thing.

JonestheSpy

2011-03-30, 01:16 PM

First off, I think you mean Neil Gaiman, not Gaimen. Secondly, regarding the christianity thing you're wrong. He does mention it, several times. The mentions are passing phrases, but Jesus gets a tip of the hat. If I can find my copy of the book I'll see if I can't find the pagenumber for you.

Doesn't Wednesday mention Jesus hitchhiking in palestine or something like that?

Yeah, he mentions Jesus hitchhiking in Afghanistan and getting no respect, same as Odin and Co getting no respect in the U.S. But to me that just further highlights the glaring absence of Christianity's place in the U.S. divine power structure.

The thing is, he wasn't addressing prominent belief systems in the first place. The gods that Wednesday is pulling together are the ones without followers/much belief these days. That's the whole point.

That's why I think the Greco-Roman pantheon is largely absent - while they might not get much in the way of active belief, there's still a fair amount of head space that they get in popular culture that allows them to stay out of Wednesday's plan (or that's my interpretation at least).

Ah, but he WASN'T just talking about the old gods without followers. The whole fricking plot was about those old gods going to war with the "new gods", which Gaiman portrayed as Media, Technology, etc. Leaving out the actual dominant religion of the country in this equation is a pretty big gaping hole. Same goes with the Greco-Romans and, as I mentioned before, the whole neopagan movement. It just seemed really lazy and a prime example of Bad Fantasy Writing: if you create the rules of a world, you shouldn't flat out ignore the logical results of those rules.

And really, I don't think it wouldn't have been that hard to come up with some reason for Jesus to stay neutral in the affair. I'm inclined to suspect he didn't because he was afraid mixing Christianity into the plot even to that extent would offend some real-life Christians, so that would make it being cowardly instead of lazy.

This is actually a habit I've seen Gaiman exhibit a number of times, and is one of the reasons I'm not a big fan: he'll set up an interesting situation and then won't or can't write his way through it, instead resorting to deus ex machinas or just ignoring the hard parts as he does here. One of the worst examples was the early Sandman story arc 'Season of Mists', which was he beginning of my falling out of love with he book (though I still bought all the issues): Satan is gone, the protagonist has been given the Key to Hell, and all these other powers - demons, pagan gods, faeries, etc - all want it, and are all attempting to bribe or threaten him in some way for it. The Sandman has to make a big decision, possibly one of the biggest in the history of the universe. So what happens?

GOD tells him what to do. Quite literally, speaking through a conveniently nearby angel, takes the decision away from him. Talk about the ultimate cop-out. We never even really knew if he was leaning one way or the other, or what.

WalkingTarget

2011-03-30, 02:05 PM

Ah, but he WASN'T just talking about the old gods without followers. The whole fricking plot was about those old gods going to war with the "new gods", which Gaiman portrayed as Media, Technology, etc. Leaving out the actual dominant religion of the country in this equation is a pretty big gaping hole.

Except that:
The whole plot was a con-game. Odin and Loki were suckering these weak gods into fighting an unnecessary war. He's not going to get the "strong" deities to risk themselves in this. The strong ones weren't the ones he would have been able to convince that there was a problem worth making a stand over. You may have felt that the story would have been better if he'd addressed the dominant religions, but those are precisely the ones who wouldn't have fallen for the con.

And really, I don't think it wouldn't have been that hard to come up with some reason for Jesus to stay neutral in the affair. I'm inclined to suspect he didn't because he was afraid mixing Christianity into the plot even to that extent would offend some real-life Christians, so that would make it being cowardly instead of lazy.

That, I may give you. Putting in a scene where he turns them down might have been fine (like the "f*****g Albanians" do - I guessed that was Wednesday's attempt to get the Greeks on board, being unable to think of any myths native to Albania itself on my own). I'm also looking forward to getting a chance to read Gaiman's "preferred" edition when it's released in a few months. It's possible that in the extra 12k words that got cut in the original publication might actually cover some of this.

This is actually a habit I've seen Gaiman exhibit a number of times, and is one of the reasons I'm not a big fan: he'll set up an interesting situation and then won't or can't write his way through it, instead resorting to deus ex machinas or just ignoring the hard parts as he does here. One of the worst examples was the early Sandman story arc 'Season of Mists', which was he beginning of my falling out of love with he book (though I still bought all the issues): Satan is gone, the protagonist has been given the Key to Hell, and all these other powers - demons, pagan gods, faeries, etc - all want it, and are all attempting to bribe or threaten him in some way for it. The Sandman has to make a big decision, possibly one of the biggest in the history of the universe. So what happens?

GOD tells him what to do. Quite literally, speaking through a conveniently nearby angel, takes the decision away from him. Talk about the ultimate cop-out. We never even really knew if he was leaning one way or the other, or what.

Well, for that Sandman example in particular - I felt it worked quite well in establishing that Morpheus has real issues making big decisions. He's quite authoritative when it comes to running things within his purview (dealing with rogue dreams/nightmares, the whole compact thing involving the land in "A Game of You", what needs to be done about vortices like Unity Kincaid/Rose Walker) but hit him with something outside of his normal duties (like any relationship he has with a mortal) and he can't cope. The main plot of the series overall has to do with him making one really big decision:
change or die - he chooses the latter.

I think that a lot of this is coming down to personal preference, though. I see what you're getting at, it's just not enough to bug me.

Soras Teva Gee

2011-03-30, 04:14 PM

Dream Country was a series of short stories taking place in a world where myth and reality collide, often in frightening and unexpected ways.

Every single book Gaiman has ever written has been a crossover between myth and reality. You can call all of his books a retread of ground he first went over in Sandman.

But Sandman covered a lot of ground, conceptually. I think looking at some of the same/similar ideas in different ways is a good thing.

Well yes but American Gods feels like it has a triple helping of stealing from past success. Seriously felt to me like Wednesday rolled out of the Dream Kings palace at the end of Season of Mists, ditched his son, and went to round up Low Key (from where ever the bastard hid out after the party) and tell they were moving on to next plan. Its the same character in the same interpretation. Only thing missing is the unnecessarily degrading depiction of Wednesday's son, who's off being dead instead in the book.

I kept expecting the perky goth chick to show up to give some unfortunate character some closure.

I suppose should mention though I have a philosophical axe to grind when it comes to God Needs Prayer Badly and Clap Your Hands if You Believe as tropes. Generally I will tolerate them at best. In Sandman I could tolerate them because there was the larger framework in place so how all the pagan gods existed was more of a diversion then the main plot point. And American Gods both place elements I was disinclined to in the center without really changing them, leaving me pining for the Endless.

Brewdude

2011-03-30, 05:14 PM

Yeah, this. Gaimen definitely was mining his earlier work for the book. I liked American Gods while reading it, and it was compelling enough to make it hard to put down, but in the end it was pretty much like eating a whole bag of potato chips - fun while it lasted, but not very good afterward, and when you're done you realize it was more the junk-food addictiveness rather than quality that kept you going.

The thing I liked least is how Gaimen so stacked the deck in his scenario of "The old pagan gods are beaten down tramps that no one respects." He had one scene where he blew off the entire neopagan community as ignorant hippy dippy airheads because the idea of active worshipers of older gods just didn't fit in with his picture. But far more egregious was his complete and total erasing of Christianity from the gameboard. I mean, how can you possibly explore the concept of old gods being imported to America by their followers and competing with new deities of media, technology, etc and not mention the major religion of the country? It really seemed to me that Gaimen just was too chicken to deal with that, so he pretended that the elephant in the room wasn't there.

On the other hand, I thought the semi-sequel Anansi Boys was a much better book. A movie adaptation of that could be pretty interesting.

Dear lord, how could you possibly miss that...

The hero was the American version of Jesus Christ. Strung up on a tree? Poked with a spear? Died and resurrected 3 days later? Girlfriend found him distant and broke up with him because he didn't seem to have human feelings (as was described as a symptom being one of these gods).

That's why Odin chose him. He knew the dude was a heavy hitter.

Weezer

2011-03-30, 05:25 PM

Dear lord, how could you possibly miss that...

The hero was the American version of Jesus Christ. Strung up on a tree? Poked with a spear? Died and resurrected 3 days later? Girlfriend found him distant and broke up with him because he didn't seem to have human feelings (as was described as a symptom being one of these gods).

That's why Odin chose him. He knew the dude was a heavy hitter.

Dear lord how could you possibly think that. Read up on your norse mythology.

Except that's not it at all. Shadow was shown to be Odin's son in the underworld sequence when Mr. Wednesday was seen seducing Shadow's mother. The strung up on a tree and poked with a spear was a ritual emulating something Odin did to himself in mythology:

In a sacrifice to himself, the highest of the gods, he was hung from the world tree Yggdrasil for nine days and nights, pierced by his own spear, in order to learn the wisdom that would give him power in the nine worlds
Also note Shadow was hung for 9 days, not three.
This was also the method used in sacrifices to Odin, which is why the sacrifice and death of Shadow during the vigil was able to give Odin enough power to return alive. As is mentioned in the book the sacrifice of a son to his father is an extremely potent one.
The only real similarity between Shadow and Jesus is that they both died and were resurrected, which is something found in many, many religions.

JonestheSpy

2011-03-30, 05:28 PM

Thanks for saving me the trouble, Weezer.

Brewdude

2011-03-30, 09:44 PM

Dear lord how could you possibly think that. Read up on your norse mythology.

Except that's not it at all. Shadow was shown to be Odin's son in the underworld sequence when Mr. Wednesday was seen seducing Shadow's mother. The strung up on a tree and poked with a spear was a ritual emulating something Odin did to himself in mythology:

Also note Shadow was hung for 9 days, not three.
This was also the method used in sacrifices to Odin, which is why the sacrifice and death of Shadow during the vigil was able to give Odin enough power to return alive. As is mentioned in the book the sacrifice of a son to his father is an extremely potent one.
The only real similarity between Shadow and Jesus is that they both died and were resurrected, which is something found in many, many religions.

So, he was the son of god, nailed through the hands, spreadeagled to a crucifix shaped tree, died on day 6 after he got poked in the ribs by a spear, but completes the ritual by being resurrected. So he compasionately died for all our sins to save the human race. Yup, absolutely nothing like Jesus. Odin recognized who he was at the very beginning, and planned to use Shadow's natural story to achieve his own ends. Go read it again and notice all the times where other gods backed down after Odin gave them the over the shoulder stare of "Do you really want to mess with me, look who I've got in my back pocket, only the personification in America with the most belief of all of them." Which is why they would change their mind from "no way" to "perhaps this could work".

It was already established that different mythologies could be mixed. You just believed yet another one of Odin's half-truths. This one wasn't explicitly mentioned because you were supposed to figure it out for yourself.

Mathis

2011-03-30, 10:02 PM

Brewdude, he's still not the son of god; a god (Odin) yes but not the god you are referring to. I'm not sure which edition you have but I am sitting here with the Author's Preferred Text edition and nowhere in the scene where Shadow is hung on a tree does it state that he is nailed through the hands or spreadeagled. The three women use ropes, and nothing else to affix Shadow to the tree except for the ladders they use to climb it.

You are allowed your own interpretation of the story, but don't attribute non-existant details to it to make it fit.

Fri

2011-03-30, 10:10 PM

I thought Jesus was in the book for a few pages or so somewhere at the last quarter of the book? Is that only in the revised/author preferred edition that I have? But I guess it might still feel as an afterthought

But yeah. Neil Gaiman is my absolute ultimate favourite author of all time. I like american gods, but Anansi Boys is one of my favourite book of all time. (My favourite book ever is neverwhere though.)

Weezer

2011-03-30, 10:21 PM

@Mathis
Exactly what I was going to say

Multiple interpretations are all well and good, just don't make up facts.

Rolaran

2011-03-30, 10:22 PM

Starscream

2011-03-30, 10:35 PM

*involuntary fanboy squeal*

Ahem. So, casting. Any thoughts? A friend and I once went through this and tried to cast the main characters. Only ones I can remember off the top of my head are Jake Gyllenhaal for Shadow and Jeff Bridges for Wednesday. Any other ideas? Ideas for other characters?

Jeff Bridges must be Wednesday. I've always said so.

As for Shadow, I dunno... the Rock? Might work.

Teehee. Michael Cera as the Technical Boy. After Social Network it would be just too perfect.

WalkingTarget

2011-03-30, 11:11 PM

Jeff Bridges must be Wednesday. I've always said so.

I'm not seeing it. Bridges just doesn't conjure that wolfish quality that Wednesday is supposed to have. I'm not coming up with anybody better off the top of my head, though.

As for Shadow, I dunno... the Rock? Might work.

In the must subdued role of his career... I could actually see that working from a purely appearance stance.

Teehee. Michael Cera as the Technical Boy. After Social Network it would be just too perfect.

Heh. You mean Jesse Eisenberg, right? Funny in a meta way.

Mathis

2011-03-30, 11:15 PM

Yeah I think Jeff Bridges could work as a ragged Wednesday, Jason Momoa might do a good job as the tall, dark Shadow as well since he certainly has the look of the character. Laura I'm not sure about, she needs a strong charismatic person to work well in my mind at least. As for the rest of the gods, I think a relatively unknown cast would be best. Preferably a European cast actually.

Starscream

2011-03-30, 11:22 PM

Heh. You mean Jesse Eisenberg, right? Funny in a meta way.

Oh yeah. Why the hell can't I tell those two apart? I spent the entirety of Zombieland thinking that was Cera too.

WalkingTarget

2011-03-30, 11:35 PM

Yeah I think Jeff Bridges could work as a ragged Wednesday,

But Wednesday isn't ragged. He wears nice suits (when he's not dressing down to rob a bank or whatnot) and is charismatic as all get out. He has to be given his position in the story. We need somebody smooth and charming, but who can switch to menacing in a heartbeat. He should probably also be a big guy, considering who he is. (edit - thinking about some of this, Bridges might not be that far off, he just doesn't feel right to me).

Jason Momoa might do a good job as the tall, dark Shadow as well since he certainly has the look of the character.

I didn't know who this was. After looking him up, I think the look could work.

Laura I'm not sure about, she needs a strong charismatic person to work well in my mind at least.

And somebody who doesn't mind spending much of the movie appearing to progressively rot.

As for the rest of the gods, I think a relatively unknown cast would be best. Preferably a European cast actually.

Bonus points if the actors are from the region their characters came from. We know any tall, wiry Irishmen who could play Mad Sweeney?

Another edit - Oooo... Rade Šerbedžija as Czernobog?

Thufir

2011-03-30, 11:40 PM

I thought Jesus was in the book for a few pages or so somewhere at the last quarter of the book? Is that only in the revised/author preferred edition that I have? But I guess it might still feel as an afterthought

Yeah, he comes and chats to Shadow in a kind of dream/vision/whatever while he's on the tree. He's not explicitly named but it's pretty clear who he is.

thorgrim29

2011-03-31, 12:11 AM

Oh yeah. Why the hell can't I tell those two apart? I spent the entirety of Zombieland thinking that was Cera too.

Yeah, so did I, now that I've seen Scott Pilgrim and Social Network I can finally tell them apart. They don't look THAT much alike, but they have pretty much the same body language, voice and acting style, so it's easy to confuse them.

Is it bad that I imagine Sean Connery as Wednesday? But seriously, it's the kind of film that would work much better without big stars, especially not for Shadow.

And yeah, Shadow's not Jesus, he's the new Odin, or at least that's my take on it. I always thought monotheism (as in the big 3 monotheist religions) isn't mentioned much in the book because the conflict is pretty small time. After all, the only people it actually affects are the scattered survivors of the mythological figures of most of Earth's religions and weakling gods who're not actively worshipped by anyone (I hope), and it happens way out of the way. So why would God or Jesus or the vanished Imam or whoever involve themselves. Hell (he he) part of Wednesday's plan was probably to go under their radar.

Fri

2011-03-31, 12:15 AM

And yeah, Shadow's not Jesus, he's the new Odin, or at least that's my take on it. I always thought monotheism (as in the big 3 monotheist religions) isn't mentioned much in the book because the conflict is pretty small time. After all, the only people it actually affects are the scattered survivors of the mythological figures of most of Earth's religions and weakling gods who're not actively worshipped by anyone (I hope), and it happens way out of the way. So why would God or Jesus or the vanished Imam or whoever involve themselves. Hell (he he) part of Wednesday's plan was probably to go under their radar.

that's my take on the conflict as well.

Amiel

2011-03-31, 12:20 AM

Hmm. I don't have that kind of response, no. I'm kinda ambivalent about it, really. I usually like Gaiman a lot, but American Gods, I thought, wasn't particularly good. Not bad, mind you, just a bit bland compared to his other stuff.

This exactly mirrors my own thoughts towards American Gods; the book didn't enflame or capture my imagination at all. While it's certainly not a bad book by any means, it's not a particularly outstanding literary piece either.

With that said, some of Gaiman's works translate well to the big screen; my curiosity compels me to subscribe to this.

turkishproverb

2011-03-31, 01:10 AM

comicshorse

2011-03-31, 04:49 AM

Is it bad that I imagine Sean Connery as Wednesday? But seriously, it's the kind of film that would work much better without big stars, especially not for Shadow.

]

No, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Somebody capable of projecting great charisma and authority ( and not a little madness as well). So Connery or Brian Cox would work for me.

I'd like Robert Caryle as Low-Key, he just seems to have the right kind of face, kind of weasely, how I always saw Low-Key in my mind.

Brewdude

2011-03-31, 05:17 AM

Bah humbug, it's been 10 years since I've read the book. but...

I could swear there was something about czernobog smacking him down with a hammer, him surviving it, and czern being surprised. Tied up to a tree and poked with a spear, not sure why I'm remembering nails, just getting old, I guess. I just specifically remember having an aha moment that Shadow was the American version, and that the thing he met up with was the holy spirit...

See now I'm gonna have to go buy a copy and reread it again to find proof of my theory.

As far as mythology goes, calling real world mythology into play here isn't nearly as important as the books own internal logic. Power of the gods is based on belief, and keeping Shadow Norse belies that. The only way he could have been survived the crap he was put through was to have been a being deeply believed in. Any Norse mythological figure fails to fit that bill.

Eldan

2011-03-31, 05:19 AM

It was quite clearly Odin. Sure, there could have been part of Jesus in there, but that's probably more due to mythological cross-contamination in the real world than anything in the book.

The Glyphstone

2011-03-31, 07:32 AM

I thought it was Word of Gaiman somewhere that

Both are true. Shadow is the physical son of Odin, and the embodiment of Jesus in America. Absolutely no way to back this up though.

hamlet

2011-03-31, 07:39 AM

Sanguine

2011-03-31, 07:53 AM

Has nobody heard of Baldr? Really?

Baldr? Odin's son? Died and ressurected? The light one?

Yes, lots of that particular myth was heavily involved with Christianity during the conversion process, but still . . .

In addition Mr World/Loki threatens to stab Shadow with a sharpened stick of Mistletoe. In Norse mythology mistletoe is the only substance that can harm Baldr.

Morph Bark

2011-03-31, 08:09 AM

I'd say between Metal fans and actually still existing worshippers, the Aesir should still get a lot of power then, though. Probably more than the Greeks.

Though that's probably why they were better off in Europe.

The Scandinavians apparently find it hilarious how those people are so strung-up on the Norse gods. To them, they're more like friendly neighbours that they make cartoons about.

Mathis

2011-03-31, 08:23 AM

But Wednesday isn't ragged. He wears nice suits (when he's not dressing down to rob a bank or whatnot) and is charismatic as all get out. He has to be given his position in the story. We need somebody smooth and charming, but who can switch to menacing in a heartbeat. He should probably also be a big guy, considering who he is. (edit - thinking about some of this, Bridges might not be that far off, he just doesn't feel right to me).

That was my original intent actually, though Jeff Bridges is a good actor he is strongest as ragged, rough and stubbled characters. He might of course surprise me and do a good job as the smooth-talking Odin.

Another edit - Oooo... Rade Šerbedžija as Czernobog?

Yes!

The Scandinavians apparently find it hilarious how those people are so strung-up on the Norse gods. To them, they're more like friendly neighbours that they make cartoons about.

Though I can't speak for all scandinavians this is roughly, roughly true. There is also a difference between real belief and fascination or conformity to a stereotype in the case of metal fans enjoying the Norse mythology.

JabberwockySupafly

2011-03-31, 09:24 AM

Has nobody heard of Baldr? Really?

Baldr? Odin's son? Died and ressurected? The light one?

Yes, lots of that particular myth was heavily involved with Christianity during the conversion process, but still . . .

Word of God (pun FULLY intended) says that Shadow IS Baldur Moon. End of discussion.
Loki tells Shadow's wife Laura that when it was all over, he was going to sharpen a stick of mistletoe, go down to the ash tree and ram it between his eyes - implying that Shadow was indeed Baldur.[4] During a live interview and spoken word session held at UCLA on Thursday, February 4, 2010, Gaiman revealed Shadow's identity as "Baldur Moon", in response to a fan question.[5]

Lord_Gareth

2011-03-31, 11:20 AM

Additionally, re: Baldr, folks need to keep the following in mind:

American Gods isn't just about following mythology, but about redefining it with regards to a world that has left it behind - like with Hinzleman and the town of Lakeside. The battle between the old, forgotten gods and the new gods (who fear being just as forgotten and cast aside) isn't just one of Wednesday's cons - it's Ragnarok, with the new gods, fat and powerful, taking the role of the Jotun, and the old gods collectively representing the mythic role of the Aesir, fighting to the last against their enemy. Wednesday could alter the myth somewhat, but he couldn't change it wholesale - Ragnarok could not begin without the death of Baldr, and so he arranged for Baldr to die.