[3.5]Magic Item Compendium Item Prices

[LansXero]

Hello everyone!

A player in my campaign bought a pair of Bracers of Lightning (MIC) for his monk, and now just realized that he doesnt feel like spending his swift action every round for a minor damage boost (he wants to use it to move so he can flurry). So, he asked me for a way to make it a continous effect (the bracers grant the shock property to all attacks for 1 round, and are activated as a mental action (swift) , so I told him to check the price for such an item using the DMG rules for magic items. So he did, and the price difference was huge, so he tried to figure out the original item's cost. . . and it doesnt make sense. It costs 11k, but none of the formulas of the DMG manage to add up to that price. What gives? Are specific items exempt of the DMG rules? How do I go about making it continuous then? Any formulae that Im missing? Please help!

[The Shadowmind]

Probably ninja/factotum/swordsaged, but the prices in MIC are intention against the formula.

The reason they didn't such is because that they realized for many items the formula make certain items cost at a rate where once you afford the item it would be useless or other options would be much better so they changed to pricing base on their perceived usefulness.

[Douglas]

For abilities other than simple bonuses, the DMG formulas are very unreliable for producing accurate evaluations of how valuable something really is. When WotC wrote MIC they explicitly acknowledged this and tried to individually assess each item's usefulness and assign prices such that, given the choice between random MIC item X and a standard everybody-takes-this bonus-granting item of equal price a typical power player would have a hard time choosing which to take.

Such individual assessment is often highly subjective, unfortunately.

[LansXero]

Allright, thanks, then how would I go about making the item continuous?

[Thurbane]

MIC tends to value a lot of items well below the guidelines in the DMG - at some point late in the run of 3.5, the designers seemed to have a shift in philosophy, and decided that magic items were overpriced in core.

...in some cases I agree with them, but in many I do not. (*cough* Healing Belt, which isn't even priced properly *cough*).

Not to derail the thread, sorry...

[LansXero]

...in some cases I agree with them, but in many I do not. (*cough* Healing Belt, which isn't even priced properly *cough*)

I can see how some of them are in the higher end of the power spectrum. I really wish they'd given new formulas instead of arbitrarily setting the price for each; I like adding 3rd party / old edition items to campaigns and when the players want to sell them its tough to decide on using the DMG calculated price or the price of a similar item in the MIC. Anyways, any idea how to calculate the cost to turn a MIC item from command (swift) to continous? Just use the DMG formulae for the second?

[Epsilon Rose]

May I suggest a slightly different solution?
Why not let him get tattoos on his hands and forearms that can be used to enchant them like normal weapons?

Edit: sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly when I wrote that. While tattoos would look cooler they'd probably be locked into there choices without another set of rules that might make them more powerful than intended. Enchanting fist wraps should work, however.

[Thurbane]

I can see how some of them are in the higher end of the power spectrum. I really wish they'd given new formulas instead of arbitrarily setting the price for each; I like adding 3rd party / old edition items to campaigns and when the players want to sell them its tough to decide on using the DMG calculated price or the price of a similar item in the MIC. Anyways, any idea how to calculate the cost to turn a MIC item from command (swift) to continous? Just use the DMG formulae for the second?
Apparently not...I tried this not long ago, and there was no clear formula for swift or immediate activation items...

[3.5] Pricing custom items with swift/immediate activation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188312)

[Darrin]

Allright, thanks, then how would I go about making the item continuous?

A +1 Shocking Necklace of Natural Weapons (Savage Species p. 58 or posted online here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a)) would cost 8600 GP. I can't see why refluffing it to bracelets/bracers would incur any additional costs.

He could also use a Scorpion Kama (6302 GP, MIC p. 201), which deals unarmed strike damage and can be used with Flurry of Blows. The shocking property can be added for +6000 GP, or he can add a Lesser Crystal of Electricity Assault for +3000 GP.

[Feytalist]

The DMG has rules about "proper item properties" or some such rot, where some qualities are more suited to some items. Boots for speed/agility/etc, periapts for protection/immunities and so on.

So any item with a property that does not "fit" gets a 1.5x price boost.

Although in the above example, +1 shocking gloves of Natural Weapons should make more sense...

[LansXero]

A +1 Shocking Necklace of Natural Weapons (Savage Species p. 58 or posted online here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060707a)) would cost 8600 GP. I can't see why refluffing it to bracelets/bracers would incur any additional costs.

He is using the Gauntlets of the Talon atm (also in the MIC; slightly underpriced imho) and yeah, thats a very elegant solution indeed. Not sure if Id apply the +50% extra cost; on one hand, bracers are for "Combat" enchantments, but then again Shocking is a weapon property and this frees up the actual "weapons" (the gauntlets) for separate enchantment. Ideas?

[DonEsteban]

Magic item pricing guidelines don't care much about how an item is activated, merely how often it can be activated (permanent, limited charges, limited charges per day) and there were (officially) no swift action activation items at the time of writing of the DMG.

The most similar thing to your item is a "shock" enhancement (a +1 magic weapon enhancement) or a lesser electricity assault weapon crystal (+3000gp). The bracers are a little bit more flexible, but I fail to see why there should be a x3 increase in costs. (Though you could argue that weapon crystals are a bit on the cheap side.)

Long story short: I'd agree that 11.000gp is already a bit on the high side and allow the change with little or no increase in cost (x 1.5 at most).

[Darrin]

He is using the Gauntlets of the Talon atm (also in the MIC; slightly underpriced imho) and yeah, thats a very elegant solution indeed. Not sure if Id apply the +50% extra cost; on one hand, bracers are for "Combat" enchantments, but then again Shocking is a weapon property and this frees up the actual "weapons" (the gauntlets) for separate enchantment. Ideas?

I was assuming the Necklace of Natural Weapons would only be applied to his unarmed strike. To add another natural weapon to the necklace (claws), that would double the price (8600 GP x 2 natural attacks = 17200 GP).

If you wanted to enhance the Gauntlets of the Talon separately... spiked gauntlets can be enchanted like any other magical weapon (8305 GP for one +1 shocking spiked gauntlet, double that for two). However, these gauntlets don't work like manufactured weapons, they grant two primary natural claw attacks instead. Natural weapons normally can't be enchanted, so I'm not sure how enchanting these gauntlets would work... if he wants to pay 16610 GP to get two +1 shocking claws, I'd allow that. I'd probably suggest enchanting both gauntlets as a +1 weapon first (+2000 GP x 2) and then add two Lesser Crystals of Electricity Assault (3000 GP x 2) as a cheaper alternative (10000 GP for both gauntlets). That's assuming you're letting him use his unarmed strike as his primary attack and adding both claws as secondary attacks?

Either way, Necklace of Natural Weapons for 17200 GP (unarmed strike and claw) or Necklace (just unarmed strike) + Gauntlets of the Talon/Electricity Assault Crystals for 18600 GP gives you a couple price points for a comparison of what you'd like to do.