Discworld D20 (Idea?)

[Welknair]

So you may have recently seen my Nac Mac Feegle homebrew race. This was made partially from boredom and partially from just finishing the Tiffany Aching books. I decided to continue by trying to homebrew the Tiffany Aching style Witches. I knew there were a couple other books in the same world, so I went on the web to do some research as to be truer to the source material.

...

WOW.

I am now deeply ashamed as to how I have not previously read the Discworld books and am now actively reading the Color of Magic and intend to plow through it and the rest of the Discworld books. However, I retain my previous desire to homebrew stuff for it, as it is just so fascinating to me. A quick search yielded the fact that there are official Discworld sourcebooks for GURPS which are decent. However, there appears to be no D20 save for scattered homebrewing of various races (Such as my feegle, which turns out to be one of many).

So, I think I may start brewing up creatures, spells, and eventually the Wizard and Witch classes as I progress through the series. If anyone knows of a full D20 for Discworld, please let me know so that I don't end up spending hours on work that turns out to be redundant. Ideas and opinions welcome, as always. Do you think that a D20 could properly encompass the complexity that is Discworld, or is something more like GURPS required for the intricacies?

[The-Mage-King]

Someone beat you to it. (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/discworld/) The Gurps part, at least.

[Welknair]

Someone beat you to it. (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/discworld/) The Gurps part, at least.


A quick search yielded the fact that there are official Discworld sourcebooks for GURPS which are decent. However, there appears to be no D20 save for scattered homebrewing of various races (Such as my feegle, which turns out to be one of many).

...

I realize that there are GURPS sourcebooks, however my players almost exclusively do D20, I am most comfortable homebrewing for D20, and I need a new project.

[The-Mage-King]

...

I realize that there are GURPS sourcebooks, however my players almost exclusively do D20, I am most comfortable homebrewing for D20, and I need a new project.

Hm. Must have not read that.

Looking it over, it might be possible.

The Wizard and Witch classes might be fun to see, actually.

[Welknair]

The Wizard and Witch classes might be fun to see, actually.

From what I understand, they would be a bit less broken than standard 3.5e Wizards. And Witches just seem like they'd be awesome to play. I read a deal of various Wiki pages on the series which gave me a deal of insight I hadn't gotten from the Tiffany Aching books. Headology seems like it'd be interesting to stat out...

My primary concern is that I don't have that much of a background with this series, as I've only read a small fraction of all that's out there. Until I've read more, I'm afraid I'd just end up offending the devoted fans who know the setting like the back of their hand...

[Debihuman]

I've also written up the Nac Mac Feegle and the Luggage (links in my signature in my creations)

Debby

[Eldan]

Actually, discworld wizards are almost certainly Vancian. They store spells in their head, and having too many of them stored takes up their "Head space". Not just Rincewind, the University wizards too, in later books.

Witches would be difficult. Kind of like experts with druid magic they don't actually use. (Tiffany really is an exception. Esme Weatherwax and her friends cast maybe a handful of spells over all books combined).

I have homebrewed an Igor race somewhere. I think that's the only discworld homebrew I did.

[Mangles]

I dunno if the witches only cast a handfull of spells. In atleast 2 of the books ive read they get into magic battles against the wizards in one and against other witches in the other. Plus weatherwax borrows animals bodies on many occasions.

@Welknair. Since first being published Pratchett has realeased on average 1 book a year. Also wizards should have trap finding

[Welknair]

Hmm. All interesting ideas. Thanks to wikis and whatnot I have a rudimentary grasp of Discworld Magic Theory, including the Law of Conservation of Reality. For the most part, Witches don't cast spells at all. They use Headology quite a deal (From Spill Words to causing a log to ignite out of embarrassment). Tiffany does a bit of Fulcrum-Based Magic, with an up-down deal (Moving pain and heat are her specialties). From the ones I've read, Anagramma is the only Witch who uses magic that is real Magic (Eskarina Smith not withstanding).

As for the wizards, having the "Head Room" concept does make things a bit easier. It means that they are limited and are prevented from having access to every Wizard spell all at once. However, I don't believe that it's true Vancian Casting, as I don't think that they forget the spells when they cast them. Then there's the matter of Thaums and Staves...

[Eldan]

There were a few cases that are probably genuine magic. Magrat making a door grow roots and branches so it would explode out if it's hinges is the example that comes to my mind.

Staves... complicated. Increased head space and better caster level?

[Welknair]

Staves... complicated. Increased head space and better caster level?

Darn, Wizard talk. So my knowledge of this area is all from either the disapproving point of view of the Witches, or scattered knowledge from the Wikis. As such, apologies if I'm horribly wrong about anything.

I think that their daily limit and Prepared Spells are independent of one another. As in they would have spontaneous casting of their prepared spells. And as far as the daily limit goes... I think it would be a baseline number of spell levels, with bonus spells likely from Con (With Int still governing DCs and as required for actually learning/preparing the spell in the first place). Then they would of course each have their staff in which they could store additional Spell Levels, up to a max amount (That would likely scale with their level as well).

Something I've been curious about: How does one go about charging their staff? From what I read it's used to store thaums for later use. Does this imply that Wizards spend an amount of their off-time storing their daily allotment of spell levels inside their staves? This would be an interesting mechanic, but I have no evidence to support that that is indeed how things work.

I'm curious how much of spells and effects I'll need to Homebrew. I'd assume that the "Real Magic" will be almost entirely covered by existing spells, but the Fulcrum Magic and Headology is quite unique...

[Eldan]

It's never really explained, really. While there's lots of books focusing on wizards or at least featuring them, it's a part of magic never expanded on. Usually, wizards either solve their problems without magic, or have far more than they actually need.

It varies a bit from book to book too. In the older books, the arcane university is a place of cut-throat politics, where all the wizards are basically penned up so they'll kill each other at close range instead of devastating the landscape. As a result, most spend half their magic on defensive spells and the other half on assassination, and few do any real research. The entire university is really a bit crumbling and faded. Using magic is dangerous, expensive, and they don't have much of it left. When Sourcery came around, they enjoyed what they got immensely.

Then, around after the time of Sourcery, we have Ridcully, the new Archchancellor. He's just so much better than the other wizards they really give up trying to kill him and instead focus on good meals and having a comfy time. They become stereotypical English Professors, really. The few times they use magic, they blow up buildings, if they want to.

There isn't much on staffs, other than they make you more powerful, in general. And are great for jokes.

[Welknair]

I now have the baseline of a Witch class done. Wow, they are horribly MAD. My remaining issue: Fulcrum magic. Tiffany does this a bit with heat and pain, but I believe it is possible to apply it to other circumstances. Does anyone know of any other instances of this transference of existing energy being used by witches? I believe that momentum is a possibility...

[Ajadea]

What d'you mean about witches being MAD? I can only see Wisdom (for Second Thoughts, being 'awake', the mirror scene in Witches Abroad, shamble construction) and Charisma (for Headology and most other Witchy abilities) being important.

Well, the wizards use a similar momentum principle to teleport; they go somewhere and they have to teleport something of equal mass to where they were to compensate.

[Welknair]

Hmm, I currently have: Wis for actual spells, Cha for dealing with people, both play roles in Headology, Int for max number of spells known, and Con for how much strain you can put on your body during casting.

I guess I'll post what I've got soon.

Sadly the latter abilities may be a bit lacking as the Tiffany books focused on the younger witches. I got to the 9th level special ability and started winging it.


Current highlights of the class:

First Sight, Second Thoughts: Adds Class Level to Spot and Sense Motive checks. Later allows for automatic Spot checks.

Casting: Witches cast spells drawn from the Druid spell list. By spending one day per spell level training, they can learn a new spell, up to Class Level/2 + Int Mod. At the end of the training, they must make a Spellcraft Check at DC 10+Spell LevelX2. Failure means that they did not master the spell and must keep training, though they recieve a +1 bonus on the next check. This effect is cumulative until the spell is learned up to a +5 bonus. Saves are Wis based. There are no Spells/Day limitations on Witch casting, instead there are three mitigating factors: A Spellcraft Check, Con Damage equal to the level of the spell cast and Cackle Points. First, the Witch must succeed on a DC 13+Spell LevelX2 Spellcraft check to successfully cast a spell. They may take a 10 on this check, even in stressful situations. Secondly, the Witch takes an amount of Temporary Con Damage equal to the level of the spell cast. This is lessened for upper level witches. For example, starting at level four you'd skip every fourth Con Damage from this effect. This extends up to 20th when you take only every fourth. And lastly, any spell cast results in the Witch accruing a Cackle Point. If at any time these exceed twice the Witch's Wisdom Score, the Witch goes mad with power. Every three days spent with sentient, sane company reduces this number by one.

Fulcrum Magic: I currently have three potential ideas for this: Heat, Emotion, and Momentum. Once you get to 9th you can learn Fulcrum Tricks like you would a 5th level spell (5 days of training or practicing), but they don't accrue Cackle Points and are far less damaging. The requirement is that you must always have the existing effect at hand - you just move it slightly. I am yet to stat these out.

Headology: This actually going to be a skill that only Witches can get ranks of. Every time you attain an odd numbered rank, starting at your fifth, you learn a Headology Trick of your choice. Some of these require you to be a certain level. They act a bit like spells, but take no energy and never cause Cackle Points. There is no limit on times/day, but instead you must succeed on a DC 10+(Number based on difficulty of Trick) Headology check to successfully work it. Headology is divided into two sub-disciplines: Projection (Cha) and Reading (Wis). Tricks are similarly classified and you use the appropriate modifier for them. You still take ranks in Headology as if it is a single Skill, however. You can get a Synergy bonus to Projection from Diplomacy and a bonus to Reading from Sense Motive.

So... Those are the basics. I have several other abilities written out, but these are the most important ones. I hope that these are at least somewhat representative of the in-book abilities.

[Ajadea]

Actual spells? When do they do that?

Here are the Witch's abilities I remember, and the source I found it in:

Headology: When are they not using it? As a skill, 5 ranks in Sense Motive gives a +2 Synergy bonus.
Wild Empathy: scene in Wyrd Sisters, Granny Weatherwax argues with animals on her lawn
First Sight and Second Thoughts: A scaling ability, bonuses on saves against illusions and enchantments. Slippery Mind past a certain point would be highly appropriate. Being able to see and argue with DEATH is probably an offshoot of First Sight (Maskerade)
Scrying: Ink in a Saucer scene, The Wee Free Men
Shambles: Tiffany Aching Series
Borrowing: Granny Weatherwax does this multiple times. Upgrades to let you possess swarms after a certain point. Similar to Wild Shape, but way weaker. Will Save or become NPC under DMs control is highly appropriate for this dangerous ability.

[Welknair]

Actual spells? When do they do that?




Witches would be difficult. Kind of like experts with druid magic they don't actually use. (Tiffany really is an exception. Esme Weatherwax and her friends cast maybe a handful of spells over all books combined).

I dunno if the witches only cast a handfull of spells. In atleast 2 of the books ive read they get into magic battles against the wizards in one and against other witches in the other.

There were a few cases that are probably genuine magic. Magrat making a door grow roots and branches so it would explode out if it's hinges is the example that comes to my mind.


...

Witches do have magic, they just don't use it often. See previous factors as to why.

As for the others:


Headology: So I think I got that covered?
Wild Empathy: Hmm. I could pretty easily make this a Headology Trick...
First Sight Second Thoughts: I was considering adding a boon to Saves v Enchantment in the Improved version (gotten at 5th level) that would allow a save the round after you failed the first save. Adding Slippery Mind-- Wait, that's exactly what the other-- Woops. Yeah, I guess I was considering giving Witches Slippery Mind at 5th.
Scrying: It's a Druid spell. As with other spells, it's rarely used.
Shambles: I should have mentioned this in the previous post! I have stats for this. A Shamble detect the presence of nearby (30ft radius) magic as well as the direction or distance of further away but more powerful sources (You could determine approximately how far off the Cunning Man is, for example). If something Powerful or Overwhelming comes within 100ft of a Shamble, it blows (Hiver, much?). Shambles are also supposed to be useful in sending spells, but this wasn't used in the Tiffany books at all, and as such I do not have enough knowledge to properly reconstruct this aspect but intend to. Quite possibly with the help of fellow posters.
Borrowing: Ooh... This was featured in one of the Tiffany books, but was just a fleeting thing as Weatherwax used a swarm of bees to figure out what was going on. I'll likely need to read up on this... I was also going to brew up a lessened version of Chain of Eyes as a Headology Trick for Treason, but it seems like this is likely an aspect of Borrowing. Perhaps the whole of Borrowing could be incorporated in Headology..?
Addendum to Borrowing after brief investigation: So Treason was using a form of Borrowing and Borrowing is magic and not Headology. Which means it'd likely function a bit like how I currently have Fulcrum Magic working?


Edit: Oh, and if I ever brew Death, it'd be one of his traits that among the people/things that can see him are characters with the First Sight, Second Thoughts class feature.

Editedit: Also considering revising my previous use of Fulcrum Magic, as it appears that Tiffany is the only Witch who really uses that...

Oh, fun fact: If you type "Fulcrum magic" into Google Images (Including the quotes), Ajadea's avatar is on the first page and The-Mage-King's is on the second.

[Tjarnet]

Hmmm... What other classes could be made? I have a few ideas, although nothing really fleshed out that much.

Watchman, as seen in all books with Sam Vimes (Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, Night Watch, and Thud!
Obviously, Strength and Constitution would be key abilities.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and all armor up to chain-mail.
Alignment: Any good. Watchmen may be instruments of the law, but you can't really call someone like Nobby Nobbs lawful by any stretch.

The Beast (ex): A rage-like ability, maybe.

Guarding Dark (ex): an antithesis to The Beast that you can't use at the same time. Adds to your Will saves, maybe?

Officer in Trouble (ex): A daily ability. You ring your bell frantically, and summon three fellow officers. They have Warrior (the NPC class) levels equal to half your own. After the battle is over, they leave. As seen in Night Watch.

Night Watch (ex): Your body has grown used to staying up all night and not getting any sleep. The time needed for you to have an extended rest drops from 6 hours to 4.



History Monk, as seen in Thief of Time and, albeit briefly, in Night Watch.
Strength, Dexterity, and Wisdom are important class skills.
Proficient with all simple weapons, but no armor.
Alignment: Any non-evil. The History Monks make sure that all acolytes won't abuse their powers for evil.

Time Slice (Sp): You can move twice the amount of spaces as you usually can usually move. Probably need to be limited to prevent abuse, although Lu-Tze and Lobsang do just that when fighting. Uses a Dex modifier

Yeti's Save (Su): A weekly ability, and probably near the last ones learned. When your hitpoints drop to 0, you can move yourself back in time. The PC using this becomes exactly the same as he was five turns ago, up to position and items. Uses a Wisdom modifier.

Deja-Fu (Su): Described as using time itself as a weapon. Does 2d10+wis Force damage to a specific target.


Death Incarnate-As seen in Mort, Soul Music, and Hogfather
Proficient with all simple weapons plus scythes, and armor up to hide.
Uses Charisma and Wisdom
Alignment: Any Neutral. Death himself, being the ultimate reality, is True Neutral. You're not quite that fair, but you have to be close enough.

Call to Duty (I don't really know): Death Incarnates must constantly fight the urge to take Death's place as the Grim Reaper. Every use of any class abilities prompts a Will save of DC 10 to avoid answering that call. If you fail that roll, you disappear to be in that role. Every five turns, you may try again to roll a Will save of DC 15 to reappear where you once stood.

Binky's Reigns (Ex): You can call Binky, Death's own horse, as a mount. Calling and mounting is a full-round action. Has a run speed, flight speed, and burrow speed of 60 ft per turn.

Eternal Memory (Su): Death can remember everything that has been and will be. You're not quite at that stage yet, but you're getting there. +5 to all checks that might be considered as gathering information (Listen, Spot, Insight, all Knowledge, Sense motive)

Ghostwalking (Sp): No walls can keep Death, or now you, out. As a daily action, you can move through obstacles like they weren't there.

The Voice (Su): Death's voice triggers deep harmonics that say that disobeying would be a really, really, really bad idea. You can copy that. +10 to all Intimidate checks.



So, what do you think? As I said, it's not really anything more than a group of ideas.

[Eldan]

A lot of classes can really be covered by standard D&D, with some variants. The history monk isn't too far from a standard D&D monk, with some insight bonuses, even more ridiculous speed and wisdom added to more things. The silver horde isn't too far from a standard barbarian. Death is a high-level outsider, Susan has the half-death template. Wizards aren't too far from D&D wizards either, probably with a staff-dependency and the spell-point variant. Eight son is a template that gains Arcane Sight permanently, as do all wizards.

All in all, especially the early discworld books borrow heavily from the same sources as early D&D. Colour of Magic has many similarities to classic sword and sorcery novels, including parodies of famous characters like Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser and Conan (two versions of him, actually).

As for witches and borrowing: I'd make that a variant on wildshape, actually. You get a level-scaling version that allows you to access different animals, starting with small rodents and birds, then moving up to bigger animals (deer) and then, when you are really good (Weatherwax is probably somewhere mid-level), swarms.

Tiffany can just leave her body, but I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else do it.

Weatherwax can do a bit of what seems to be Fulcrum Magic when she moves her own pain to an anvil. Which promptly starts to glow from the heat.

[Tjarnet]

The silver horde isn't too far from a standard barbarian.
Wait, the what? I must have missed a book...

[Eldan]

Cohen the barbarian and his colleagues.

He personally first showed up in either Colour of Magic or the Light Fantastic. The silver horde, his warband of old barbarian heroes, first came up in Interesting Times, I think, when they conquered the Agathean Empire. Then there's Last Hero, one of my favourite books. The first hero stole fire from the gods, they are the last heroes and bring it back. With interest.

[Super_Fluous]

Also, it seems a bit odd to be that your Death Incarnate idea as is doesn't have proficiency with scythes.

[Tjarnet]

Also, it seems a bit odd to be that your Death Incarnate idea as is doesn't have proficiency with scythes.

...

How the HELL did I miss that? Added.

[Tanuki Tales]

May I throw in my two cents here and stress that you shouldn't stat up Death or any other major deity or Aspect from the Discworld? Because once it has stats....

[Tjarnet]

May I throw in my two cents here and stress that you shouldn't stat up Death or any other major deity or Aspect from the Discworld? Because once it has stats....

Then it stops being an undefeateble diety? But in Hogfather, it's shown that gods CAN be defeated, destroyed, and obliterated from the minds of the populace. Granted, it's by a very unconventional means, but Teatime says that it can be done. He also mentions that he has a plan to kill Death, although he dies before he can put it in effect.

[Tanuki Tales]

Then it stops being an undefeateble diety? But in Hogfather, it's shown that gods CAN be defeated, destroyed, and obliterated from the minds of the populace. Granted, it's by a very unconventional means, but Teatime says that it can be done. He also mentions that he has a plan to kill Death, although he dies before he can put it in effect.

But every instance where a deity, aspect or other higher entity is fought seriously, viably threatened or destroyed it's either by an entity of somewhat equivalent power (or former equivalent power i.e. Death v. New Death) or through events that would most certainly be a plot device. (That I can remember of course.)

[Tjarnet]

But every instance where a deity, aspect or other higher entity is fought seriously, viably threatened or destroyed it's either by an entity of somewhat equivalent power (or former equivalent power i.e. Death v. New Death) or through events that would most certainly be a plot device. (That I can remember of course.)

You do have a point there, but if stats are added to the gods and whatnot, they will be high enough that the adventuring party would have to have near god-like power at any rate to have a viable chance of taking them down anyway.

[Welknair]

Couldn't we just use the Divine Ranks from Deities and Demigods? It'd make them kill-able, but only viably so by deities of greater (or equal) rank. And that system already covers most deific powers...

[Tanuki Tales]

Couldn't we just use the Divine Ranks from Deities and Demigods? It'd make them kill-able, but only viably so by deities of greater (or equal) rank. And that system already covers most deific powers...

Except Deities and Demigods was an incredibly poorly done book and I'm pretty sure that non-epic characters were found to easily walk all over the statted up deities.

[Welknair]

Except Deities and Demigods was an incredibly poorly done book and I'm pretty sure that non-epic characters were found to easily walk all over the statted up deities.

Well, minus the Divine Rank, if the gods that would be potentially statted for discworld were properly done, they should, by definition, be able to hold their own against any character of lesser level. Adding the Divine Rank gives them some neat-o abilities. And it's pretty easy to simply say "You can't kill a god unless you have a Divine Rank equal to or greater than the Divine Rank of the god in question".

[Tanuki Tales]

Well, minus the Divine Rank, if the gods that would be potentially statted for discworld were properly done, they should, by definition, be able to hold their own against any character of lesser level. Adding the Divine Rank gives them some neat-o abilities. And it's pretty easy to simply say "You can't kill a god unless you have a Divine Rank equal to or greater than the Divine Rank of the god in question".

You'd just have to make sure you explicitly make it apparent that a regular Wizard or Witch or smiling, seemingly harmless old man with a broom can't best or defeat a god/aspect/etc. without a lot of skill, ingenuity and a plot device.

[Welknair]

You'd just have to make sure you explicitly make it apparent that a regular Wizard or Witch or smiling, seemingly harmless old man with a broom can't best or defeat a god/aspect/etc. without a lot of skill, ingenuity and a plot device.

As it is once a god gets Alter Reality, you'd already be in big trouble... Slap onto that massive bonuses to absolutely everything, huge DR, always natural 20, and the ability to kill mortals at will once you get Hand of Death... Yeah, you're pretty much dead unless you got something up your sleeve. Killing gods isn't child's play. Unless you're an Exalted, that is. Then it's a leisure activity.

[Icedaemon]

I am quite a fan of the disk and the fantasy-pulp-heroes did play a large role in the earliest books.


I've also written up the Nac Mac Feegle and the Luggage (links in my signature in my creations)

Debby

Your luggage is vastly underpowered. The luggage is capable of holding its own against pretty much anything, including the world's most epic hero who, given his other accomplishments is (was? haven't found a paperback of Last Hero yet) indeed epic level.

Probably more HD - the luggage smashed through a giant tooth made of diamond with no ill effects and routinely smashes aside CL 10+ random encounters. At the very least, chimeras and several abominations were mentioned.

The Luggage's immunity to magic should be vaster than what you included.

The Luggage contains at least a dozen separate Luggage-sized or larger extra-dimensional spaces as is evident from it swallowing some thug one moment and only showing clean laundry a moment or two later (while also containing several souvenirs, a compartment of gold coins ect. Someone eaten by the luggage is trapped in one of those spaces and likely dies of thirst, asphyxiation or fear.

The Luggage consistenly exhibited a clear mean streak along with nigh-unwavering loyalty (even if it takes its time with some orders or wanders off occasionally). Thus, Lawful Evil is the more likely alignment. Since all mentioned Sapient Pearwood constructs are likewise loyal, Luggages on the whole should be Lawful Neutral, with Rincewind's Luggage LE.


Watchman, as seen in all books with Sam Vimes (Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, Night Watch, and Thud!

The Watchmen are all individuals, with suitably different skillsets. Many things you listed were Sam Vimes specific. A watchman prestige class which lists all the options that they have exhibited is probably not necessary.

History Monk, as seen in Thief of Time and, albeit briefly, in Night Watch.

At most, this could be a modification of the basic monk class. Given their roles and time-travel, they should be NPCs anyway.

Death Incarnate-As seen in Mort, Soul Music, and Hogfather
Proficient with all simple weapons plus scythes, and armor up to hide.
Uses Charisma and Wisdom
Alignment: Any Neutral. Death himself, being the ultimate reality, is True Neutral. You're not quite that fair, but you have to be close enough.

Call to Duty (I don't really know): Death Incarnates must constantly fight the urge to take Death's place as the Grim Reaper. Every use of any class abilities prompts a Will save of DC 10 to avoid answering that call. If you fail that roll, you disappear to be in that role. Every five turns, you may try again to roll a Will save of DC 15 to reappear where you once stood.

Binky's Reigns (Ex): You can call Binky, Death's own horse, as a mount. Calling and mounting is a full-round action. Has a run speed, flight speed, and burrow speed of 60 ft per turn.

60 ft? I am not all that familiar with the archaric measurement systems, but that seems very slow. Binky can go anywhere faster than the Speed of Plot. That some two-bit wizard might summon a phantom steed which might go faster is ludicrous. It might seem like they are moving at regular-horse-speeds to those who are mounted (in terms of faces peeling off due to wind resitance), but the terrain goes past fast enough that overtaking light (Discworld light, maybe not the other type) is taken for granted.

Eternal Memory (Su): Death can remember everything that has been and will be. You're not quite at that stage yet, but you're getting there. +5 to all checks that might be considered as gathering information (Listen, Spot, Insight, all Knowledge, Sense motive)

Ghostwalking (Sp): No walls can keep Death, or now you, out. As a daily action, you can move through obstacles like they weren't there.

At least when one is on the job, this should be At Will, not Per Day.

The Voice (Su): Death's voice triggers deep harmonics that say that disobeying would be a really, really, really bad idea. You can copy that. +10 to all Intimidate checks.


While such a template might be necessary if you plan to include Susan in the play-plot, I strongly recommend not making any such prestige class, since one should not get players involved with this.

[Eldan]

As I've said: Susan has a template, not a class.

[Debihuman]

I am quite a fan of the disk and the fantasy-pulp-heroes did play a large role in the earliest books.

Your luggage is vastly underpowered. The luggage is capable of holding its own against pretty much anything, including the world's most epic hero who, given his other accomplishments is (was? haven't found a paperback of Last Hero yet) indeed epic level.

Probably more HD - the luggage smashed through a giant tooth made of diamond with no ill effects and routinely smashes aside CL 10+ random encounters. At the very least, chimeras and several abominations were mentioned.

The Luggage's immunity to magic should be vaster than what you included.

The Luggage contains at least a dozen separate Luggage-sized or larger extra-dimensional spaces as is evident from it swallowing some thug one moment and only showing clean laundry a moment or two later (while also containing several souvenirs, a compartment of gold coins ect. Someone eaten by the luggage is trapped in one of those spaces and likely dies of thirst, asphyxiation or fear.

The Luggage consistenly exhibited a clear mean streak along with nigh-unwavering loyalty (even if it takes its time with some orders or wanders off occasionally). Thus, Lawful Evil is the more likely alignment. Since all mentioned Sapient Pearwood constructs are likewise loyal, Luggages on the whole should be Lawful Neutral, with Rincewind's Luggage LE.

Your criticisms are noted. When converting book creatures to D&D stats, it is far more important that the creature be playable than it match the book exactly.

1. Diamonds are relatively easy to smash. They are hard to cut. D&D doesn't reflect event as easily as the book does, but a decent DM could pull this off.

2. I used the standard construct immunity for the luggage.

3. A D&D Chimera has 9 HD and is CR 7, my luggage has 12 HD and is CR 9, the luggage can take the D&D chimera. I think this disproves your objection to the luggage being underpowered.

4. The luggage's insides are that of a Bag of Holding IV (I used those stats).

5. The description is fluff and I kept it to a bare minimum. Each luggage will contain different items. The standard luggage is always neutral (for D&D purposes), however, I did note that Rincewind's luggage was homicidal in nature but that doesn't mean every luggage has to behave that way. You could have an insane luggage with evil alignment but I addressed this in the entry. Furthermore, loyalty to its master does not equate to being Lawful.

Debby

[Icedaemon]

Your criticisms are noted. When converting book creatures to D&D stats, it is far more important that the creature be playable than it match the book exactly.

1. Diamonds are relatively easy to smash. They are hard to cut. D&D doesn't reflect event as easily as the book does, but a decent DM could pull this off.

I suppose I agree with this.

2. I used the standard construct immunity for the luggage.

Which works for ordinary wood golems, but not constructs made from a type of wood that by itself has strong magic resistance.

3. A D&D Chimera has 9 HD and is CR 7, my luggage has 12 HD and is CR 9, the luggage can take the D&D chimera. I think this disproves your objection to the luggage being underpowered.

I like how you took to the 'bare minimum' example and ignored the primary example (roughly evenly matched with Cohen the Barbarian).

4. The luggage's insides are that of a Bag of Holding IV (I used those stats).

I did note that, and stated that the luggage should effectively count as several bags of holding.

5. The description is fluff and I kept it to a bare minimum. Each luggage will contain different items. The standard luggage is always neutral (for D&D purposes), however, I did note that Rincewind's luggage was homicidal in nature but that doesn't mean every luggage has to behave that way. You could have an insane luggage with evil alignment but I addressed this in the entry. Furthermore, loyalty to its master does not equate to being Lawful.

Debby

I do disagree with the notion that 'loyalty does not equate to being Lawful' - loyalty is one of the defining traits of all sapient pearwood equipment and thus lawful fits them well.

The stats you presented might describe the ordinary, basic luggages but not the principal one desribed in the books, which seems invincible enough to suggest progression to epic or near-epic CR. Even so, the basic luggages should have the 'equal to several separate bags of holding' feature, better magic immunity and the ability to hold and starve several captives in several different compartments.

[Debihuman]

I do disagree with the notion that 'loyalty does not equate to being Lawful' - loyalty is one of the defining traits of all sapient pearwood equipment and thus lawful fits them well.

The stats you presented might describe the ordinary, basic luggages but not the principal one desribed in the books, which seems invincible enough to suggest progression to epic or near-epic CR. Even so, the basic luggages should have the 'equal to several separate bags of holding' feature, better magic immunity and the ability to hold and starve several captives in several different compartments.



1. You are free to disagree with me and you can certainly adjust any stats that don't work for you. Considering that the luggage is loyal but only to its master that appeared more the exception than the rule in my opinion.

2. I was indeed statting out a basic luggage. If you want to stat out Rincewind's luggage specifically, knock yourself out.

3. It isn't invincible. Most of the monsters it met were weaker than it was, at least by D&D standards as I've previously pointed out. I don't remember all of the them, but the D&D chimera is weaker. The shark is weaker. I don't remember much of the others.

4. If you want to increase the inside dimensions for holding greater weight and area, go right ahead, but I've limited the potential for abuse as this prevents PCs from going all "Monty Haul" during adventures. However, if this doesn't mesh with your style of play, feel free to double or even triple this space.

5. What would you suggest for "better" magic immunity? The luggage is already immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. That's not insignificant. It also has damage reduction 5/adamantine. It can smash through most obstacles with that.

6. It can already hold 4 Medium creatures. How is that not stowing "several" captives? Of course, if you increase the inside dimensions, the luggage can Swallow Whole Large or even Huge creatures (although I'm not sure it did in the books -- it's been too long for me to remember the details of what the luggage did).

Debby

[Tjarnet]

It can already hold 4 Medium creatures. How is that not stowing "several" captives? Of course, if you increase the inside dimensions, the luggage can Swallow Whole Large or even Huge creatures (although I'm not sure it did in the books -- it's been too long for me to remember the details of what the luggage did).

In Intersting Times, the Luggage killed a shark and swallowed/stored its carcass to be eaten. And isn't a shark a Large Creature?

Also in the same book, there are other Luggages, but Rincewind's Luggage is strong enough to easily take down three of the badder ones.

[Debihuman]

In Interesting Times, the Luggage killed a shark and swallowed/stored its carcass to be eaten. And isn't a shark a Large Creature?

Also in the same book, there are other Luggages, but Rincewind's Luggage is strong enough to easily take down three of the badder ones.

Sharks come in a variety of sizes, but the first listed is Medium and the Luggage that I made can easily take down 3 of them. Note that in the book the shark thought it was the biggest and baddest shark but that's the shark's perspective; I'd say it was a shark prone to exaggeration.

Debby