Archivist Prayerbook- Filling and Protecting

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Please be patient, I have a lot of questions here, and the Archivist Handbook doesn't quite cover everything.

So, I'm building a 7th-level Archivist for the first time, and trying to figure out a few things for the prayerbook- both in terms of the rules, and for advice.

For anyone not familiar with the class, the Archivist is a divine caster that learns and casts more-or-less as a wizard, and can do assorted nasty things to enemies with the result of a successful knowledge check. Big point is, they can (in theory) learn *any* divine spell- cleric, druid, domains, rangers, paladinds, you name it.

My main question is about the cost of filling out spells; I haven't been able to find any official rules for how much it costs to add spells at character creation. I know I get 2 free spells whenever I gain a new level; past that I've been assuming a cost of 150gp per spell level, going by 100 to copy a spell, and 50 to get a fellow caster to let me copy from them.

This has pretty much entirely bankrupted me; I'm assuming 19000 starting wealth, and 13400 of that is going to spell costs- add a perpiapt of wisdom to increase spells per day, and I'm down to choosing between protecting my prayerbook with spells and materials, and protecting myself with armor.

Is there an official line for the cost of filling out spell books, or any reason it'd be different for prayer books?

Right now I'm spending ~1500 to protect and enchant my prayerbook, going from the rules in Complete Arcane- I read a few things about protecting spell books that might apply, but they were assuming access to arcane spells rather than divine. Anyone have ideas from the divine perspective?

So long as I'm asking questions about the class... any feats or items I absolutely need? Right now I'm picking Imp. Initiative, Jack of all Trades and either Nature Archivist or Collegiate Wizard, depending on whether I can talk my DM into letting me have the latter. Archivist Handbook only mentioned two items, both of which for knowledge checks, and (if I added everything up right,) between spells, skills and skill checks, I'm currently hitting 33 on a nat 1.

Finally, on the off-chance that anyone here is crazy-overdedicated and has way too much time on their hands (and, really, what are the odds of that? :P), I present my spell list for review. Oh, I used the CAr rules to build a larger spell/prayer book, which I *think* makes it acceptable for me to go over the 100-page limit (I paid for 200)

Level One:
Cleric:
Bless Water (Cleric 1, PHB)
Comprehend Languages (Cleric 1, PHB)
Bless (Cleric 1, PHB)
Bless Weapon (PA 1, PHB)
Hide from Undead (CL1, PHB)
Protection from Evil (CL1, PHB)
Sanctuary (CL1, PHB)
Sign (CL1, SCP)
Resurgence (CL1, SP)
Expeditious Retreat (Celerity 1, PHB, SCP)
Light of Lunia (CL1, SCP)
Resist Energy (RA1, PHP)

Druid:
Entangle (DR1, PHB)
Aspect of the Wolf (DR1, SCP)
Snake's Swiftness (DR1, SCP)

Ranger:
Linked Perception (RA1, PHBII)

Level Two:
Cleric:
Consecrate (CL2, PHB)
Cat's Grace (DR2 PHB)
Zone of Truth (CL2, PHB)
Lore of the Gods (CL2, CC)
Barkskin (DR2, PHB)
Divine Insight (CL2, SCP)
Light of Mercuria (CL2 2, Spell Compendium)

Druid:
Master Air (DR2, SCP)
Mass Snake's Swiftness (DR2, SCP)

Adept:
Mirror Image (AD2, PHP)

Level Three:
Cleric:
Dispel magic (CL3, PHB)
Magic Circle against Evil (CL3, PHB)
Speak with Dead (CL3, PHB)
Holy Storm (CL3, SCP)
Fly (Travel 3, PHB)
Searing Light (CL3, PHB)
Recitation(Purification 3, SCP))
Righteous Fury (PA3, SCP)

Druid:
Call Lightning (DR3, PHB)

Level Four:
Cleric:
Dismissal (CL4, PHB)
Divination (CL4, PHB)
Undead Bane Weapon (CL4, SCP)
Sacred Item(CL4, CC)
Revenance(CL4, SCP)
Enervation (Suffering 4,PHB,SCP)
Divine Power (CL4,PHB) (1rd/lvl)
Explosive Runes (Rune 4, PHB, SCP)

Druid:
Reincarnate(DR4, PHB)
Last Breath(DR4, SCP)

Ranger:
Commune with Nature (RA4, PHB)
Aspect of the Earth Hunter (RA4, SCP)

Adept:
Polymorph (AD4, PHB)

[Goonthegoof]

Why not used Boccob's Blessed Book?

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Why not used Boccob's Blessed Book?

I'd still have to get people to give me access to their spells, though, wouldn't I? I'm assuming 50GP per spell level for that (found that somewhere), which would put me well over the cost- though I suppose Boccob's would me more expandable...

[Coidzor]

Why not used Boccob's Blessed Book?

Well, it'd cost about as much as it does right now just to get the Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) and he'd still have to figure out how to get access to the spells in the first place on top of that.

[JaronK]

To get access to spells is easy.

Step 1: Prove the spell exists as a divine spell somewhere. Try looking at the Divine Bard list, the Cleric variant that adds a bunch of Wiz/Sor spells as divine spells instead of a domain, the Dragon Magic Favored Soul variant that gives you any Wiz/Sor spell 6th level or lower, or the Hexer PrC that gives any Wiz/Sor spell added to your class list. Or look at domains. Or the Shugenja list. Or whatever. Just find it and point it out.

Step 2: Use Research. It's in the DMG, and the rules are trivially simple: researching a duplicate of a spell (you're duplicating the spell you just proved existed) takes 1 day and costs twice what it would take to have an NPC cast the spell.

Step 3: Make DM cry.

JaronK

[Innis Cabal]

There is no standard spell for people because every mage is going to price letting you crib knowledge off them differently and probably much more expensively then copying them from a scroll. Frankly, if you want a ton of spells you've got to pay for them, that's called balance honestly.


To get access to spells is easy.

Step 1: Prove the spell exists as a divine spell somewhere. Try looking at the Divine Bard list, the Cleric variant that adds a bunch of Wiz/Sor spells as divine spells instead of a domain, the Dragon Magic Favored Soul variant that gives you any Wiz/Sor spell 6th level or lower, or the Hexer PrC that gives any Wiz/Sor spell added to your class list. Or look at domains. Or the Shugenja list. Or whatever. Just find it and point it out.

Step 2: Use Research. It's in the DMG, and the rules are trivially simple: researching a duplicate of a spell (you're duplicating the spell you just proved existed) takes 1 day and costs twice what it would take to have an NPC cast the spell.

Step 3: Make DM cry.

JaronK

This rule only works if your DM doesn't have a clue what you're doing and tells you to cut it out.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

There is no standard spell for people because every mage is going to price letting you crib knowledge off them differently and probably much more expensively then copying them from a scroll. Frankly, if you want a ton of spells you've got to pay for them, that's called balance honestly.

Oh, I accept that I have to pay, no problems there- I'm just trying to figure out how much.



Step 2: Use Research. It's in the DMG, and the rules are trivially simple: researching a duplicate of a spell (you're duplicating the spell you just proved existed) takes 1 day and costs twice what it would take to have an NPC cast the spell. That doesn't auto-add it to my spellbook, though, does it? Still works out to be more expensive...

Ok, going by the d20 SRD, it cost 10*spell level*caster level to get a spell cast. Now, assuming minimum level able to cast, that's 10*4*7 for a 4th level spell, or 280, and 560GP to research. After research, I still have to scribe it to my spellbook, at a cost of 100GP per page, I think- so every 4th-level spell would cost me most of a thousand gold. Or am I missing something?

[Coidzor]

I have always wondered how a wizard was supposed to be able to get spells trivially and afford equipment before being able to break the WBL limitation.

[JaronK]

That doesn't auto-add it to my spellbook, though, does it? Still works out to be more expensive...

Ok, going by the d20 SRD, it cost 10*spell level*caster level to get a spell cast. Now, assuming minimum level able to cast, that's 10*4*7 for a 4th level spell, or 280, and 560GP to research. After research, I still have to scribe it to my spellbook, at a cost of 100GP per page, I think- so every 4th-level spell would cost me most of a thousand gold. Or am I missing something?

Yes, that's about right. It does cost a bit. A Boccob's Book will lower the price, and IIRC Geometer will do so as well (not sure if that latter is available to Archivists).

Of course, it's so trivial to gain more gp wealth anyway if you really wanted... but then there's no point in adventuring, and now you're playing Accountants and Administration. Not quite as fun. So go get treasure, turn it into spell research, and go nuts. You don't need all the spells... just the good ones!

JaronK

[Yuki Akuma]

How to get around the "it costs too much" problem:

1. Cast Wall of Iron.

2. Cut up the iron with your adamantine pocket knife.

3. Sell chunks of iron.

4. ???

54. Profit.

[Cartigan]

To get access to spells is easy.

Step 1: Prove the spell exists as a divine spell somewhere. Try looking at the Divine Bard list, the Cleric variant that adds a bunch of Wiz/Sor spells as divine spells instead of a domain, the Dragon Magic Favored Soul variant that gives you any Wiz/Sor spell 6th level or lower, or the Hexer PrC that gives any Wiz/Sor spell added to your class list. Or look at domains. Or the Shugenja list. Or whatever. Just find it and point it out.

Step 2: Use Research. It's in the DMG, and the rules are trivially simple: researching a duplicate of a spell (you're duplicating the spell you just proved existed) takes 1 day and costs twice what it would take to have an NPC cast the spell.

Step 3: Make DM cry.

JaronK
Step 4: Go Bankrupt. You can pull whatever shenanigans you want, spells are still going to cost 100 per page and 1 page per spell level, minimum 1. Only for spells you automatically learn does this not apply. Unless the Archivist specifies it uses rules differently than the Wizard, which I am fairly certain it doesn't.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Step 4: Go Bankrupt. You can pull whatever shenanigans you want, spells are still going to cost 100 per page and 1 page per spell level, minimum 1.

So do you normally just pay the scribing cost in your game? If that's the standard I'd be delighted- it's reduce my spell expenditures by a third...

I'm surprised there isn't a standardized rule for this- it seems like it would be a common question.

I mean, I get that there are going to be different rules and situations after the game has started, vagaries of fate and the adventuring life and all that. But, at character creations it's still pretty much starting equipment.

I think I'll stick with 150 GP per spell level, as the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm) says that a wizard will charge a fee of 50GP per spell level to copy spells from their spellbook, and my character's back story would have him spending most of his life in religious institutions where he'd have friendly access to other academics.

As for money-making tricks... well, the campaign is taking place in an area that it wouldn't exactly be easy to get out of. Even if I did use some money-making tricks without earning the wrath of an otherwise friendly DM, I doubt I'd get a chance to spend it.

So... anyone come up with any good divine spells for spellbook protection? Or should I just make like the guy at the top of the archivist handbook and chain it to my neck?

[Cartigan]

So do you normally just pay the scribing cost in your game? If that's the standard I'd be delighted- it's reduce my spell expenditures by a third...
You still have to find the spells. Writing them into a book is constant cost for all spells not learned by level up.

I have a suggestion though for you on your dilemma of spells vs equipment - don't learn so damn many spells.

All of the spellbook protection spells I can think of are Arcane, for obvious reasons. Special materials would be good to prevent it from being destroyed, but preventing it from being thieves is a different kettle of fish.

If you want to play a "Shenanigans Archivist," learn "Sepia Snake Sigil" from a Divine Bard.

[zagan]

Instead of a Blessed book I recommand and Aureon's Spellshard (ECS p161) cost half as much as a blessed book (6250) but work otherwise exactly like it. The only difference being that it posses "only" an equivalent of 500 pages.

[only1doug]

learning spells is easier for a wizard. other wizard spellbooks are common, swap spells with allies, take books from defeated enemies etc.

as Archivists are less common the chance to copy there books is also less common.

The most frequently suggested method is that the archivist will learn from scrolls.

[Coidzor]

I have a suggestion though for you on your dilemma of spells vs equipment - don't learn so damn many spells.

Ok, so how many spells known should a wizard or archivist who aren't breaking WBL using shenanigans have then?

[Yuki Akuma]

Instead of a Blessed book I recommand and Aureon's Spellshard (ECS p161) cost half as much as a blessed book (6250) but work otherwise exactly like it. The only difference being that it posses "only" an equivalent of 500 pages.

Which means it in fact costs exactly the same per page.

Not that getting it for half the price and half the capacity is a bad idea.

[Cartigan]

Ok, so how many spells known should a wizard or archivist who aren't breaking WBL using shenanigans have then?
Basic, you are obviously going to have how many ever 0th level Cleric spells you feel like writing down, 2 + Int mod 1st level Cleric spells, 2*class levels with Y spell level being maximum accessible of Y spell level.

But, after that, the point where "I can't buy equipment, spells have eaten all my money!" means you are putting too much money into acquiring spells.

[Yuki Akuma]

So Archivists should totally ignore the main selling point of the class - that they can take spells not on the Cleric spell list?

Because they can only take Cleric spells as their free spells on level up.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Basic, you are obviously going to have how many ever 0th level Cleric spells you feel like writing down, 2 + Int mod 1st level Cleric spells, 2*class levels with Y spell level being maximum accessible of Y spell level.

But, after that, the point where "I can't buy equipment, spells have eaten all my money!" means you are putting too much money into acquiring spells.

I'm not so much complaining that it costs too much as I am trying to get a definite idea of how much it *should* cost, and, being of a pragmatic mindset, trying to find any legitimate tricks I can use to offset that cost (i.e., Boccob's Book, that Spellshard thing, etc)

EDIT: It's probably worth mentioning that our DM, for reasons I will never understand but will refrain from questioning, lets *all* casters cast spontaneously- which both greatly increases the value of spells (making me willing to spend a higher percentage of my wealth on them), and makes it somewhat tricky to stay useful alongside the party cleric, who can cast at a whim from every cleric spell, ever.

[Cartigan]

The spellshard thing may defray your cost if you aren't using more pages than it has.

And why be an Archivist if there is already a party Cleric? You will NEVER be on par with the Cleric. Even without spontaneous casting. Your schtick is different. Don't go blowing all your money on learning every spell ever to out spell the Cleric. You lose. Maybe not with a Shenanigan Archivist, but really.

[Cartigan]

So Archivists should totally ignore the main selling point of the class - that they can take spells not on the Cleric spell list?

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what part of my VERY obvious factual observation is escaping you people. If you spells consume 70% of your character wealth, you are spending too much on getting spells. That should at most be 50%, and better in the realm of 30-40%

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what part of my VERY obvious factual observation is escaping you people. If you spells consume 70% of your character wealth, you are spending too much on getting spells. That should at most be 50%, and better in the realm of 30-40%

Opinions are not objective fact.

Spells are good. Especially if you can cast them spontaneously (FreakyCheeseMan's DM is insane).

[FreakyCheeseMan]

The spellshard thing may defray your cost if you aren't using more pages than it has.

And why be an Archivist if there is already a party Cleric? You will NEVER be on par with the Cleric. Even without spontaneous casting. Your schtick is different. Don't go blowing all your money on learning every spell ever to out spell the Cleric. You lose. Maybe not with a Shenanigan Archivist, but really.

Reasons for being an Archivist:

1: I like the flavor.
2: It's a solid support character, and I am maybe-sorta-a-little be trying to redeem myself in the eyes of the group following the actions of my last character.
3: Dark knowledge is a thing of beauty at 8th level and a thing of pants-crapping insanity at 11th.
4: I don't get as many spells as the cleric, but I do draw from a much larger list (Seriously- even without being abusive of assorted prestige classes, I have access to most of the best spells in the game through cleric, druidic, adept and domain spells.) It does cost a pretty penny to take advantage of this, though.

[Cartigan]

Opinions are not objective fact.
No, but good sense gets pretty close.

[Cartigan]

Reasons for being an Archivist:

1: I like the flavor.
2: It's a solid support character, and I am maybe-sorta-a-little be trying to redeem myself in the eyes of the group following the actions of my last character.
3: Dark knowledge is a thing of beauty at 8th level and a thing of pants-crapping insanity at 11th.
4: I don't get as many spells as the cleric, but I do draw from a much larger list (Seriously- even without being abusive of assorted prestige classes, I have access to most of the best spells in the game through cleric, druidic, adept and domain spells.) It does cost a pretty penny to take advantage of this, though.
You are better off running support then. Replace the "Boost my save DC" item with a "Make me smarter" item and run buff spells to augment your class abilities.

And you either pick a reasonable amount of spells that don't blow all your money and get some equipment or you DO blow all your money getting spells and can't afford equipment and don't complain about it.

[Telonius]

There might be another option here: During your downtime, rent out your spellbook for other Archivists to copy from. :smallbiggrin:

[Cartigan]

There might be another option here: During your downtime, rent out your spellbook for other Archivists to copy from. :smallbiggrin:

If we are going to be silly, let's just sell the Wall of Iron pound by pound.

[Telonius]

If we are going to be silly, let's just sell the Wall of Iron pound by pound.

Wall of Iron isn't a divine spell. :smallwink:

[Yuki Akuma]

Wall of Iron isn't a divine spell. :smallwink:

Everything is a divine spell.

[Cartigan]

Wall of Iron isn't a divine spell. :smallwink:
He can pay some one to cast Wall of Iron for him and then cut it up and sell it to fund his bribing Divine Casters to spend time with him so they can help him write scrolls of their spells so he can then copy them into his spellbook.

[dextercorvia]

Everything is a Divine spell if you try hard enough.

[Cartigan]

Everything is a Divine spell if you try hard enough.

Anything is a good reason to get a DMG thrown at you if you try hard enough.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

You are better off running support then. Replace the "Boost my save DC" item with a "Make me smarter" item and run buff spells to augment your class abilities.

And you either pick a reasonable amount of spells that don't blow all your money and get some equipment or you DO blow all your money getting spells and can't afford equipment and don't complain about it.

Again, the thing I'm complaining about isn't so much the cost as it is the lack of clarity about the cost; so far I've heard responses to this ranging from "Buy Boccob's Book and get all spells free" to "Buy scrolls one-by-one and copy the spells from there," and I'm just trying to find where on this spectrum is considered legitimate.

And, actually, my DCs are keyed off of intelligence- the perpiapt of wisdom is to give me more spells per day.

[Coidzor]

Wall of Salt is without much reaching though, IIRC, and starts earlier. :smallbiggrin:

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Anything is a good reason to get a DMG thrown at you if you try hard enough.

Thus the fact that the most ridiculous bit of reasoning I'm using is claiming Polymorph from the Adept spell list, and they *are* divine casters, even if they aren't PCs...

[Yuki Akuma]

Metal Domain (SC 276)

Core Deities: None.
Forgotten Realms Deities: Dumathoin, Flandal Steelskin, Gond, Grumbar, Laduguer.
Other Deities: Bleredd.

Granted Power: You gain Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus as bonus feats for either the light hammer or the warhammer (your choice).

Metal Domain Spells

1. Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
2. Heat Metal: Make metal so hot it damages those who touch it.
3. Keen Edge: Doubles normal weapon's threat range.
4. Rusting Grasp: Your touch corrodes iron and alloys.
5. Wall of IronM: 30 hp/4 levels; can topple onto foes.
6. Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
7. Transmute Metal to Wood: Metal within 40' becomes wood.
8. Iron Body: Your body becomes living iron.
9. Repel Metal or Stone: Pushes away metal and stone.

There you go.

It's even one spell level lower than the Sorcerer/Wizard version. Go Archivists.

[Cartigan]

Again, the thing I'm complaining about isn't so much the cost as it is the lack of clarity about the cost; so far I've heard responses to this ranging from "Buy Boccob's Book and get all spells free" to "Buy scrolls one-by-one and copy the spells from there," and I'm just trying to find where on this spectrum is considered legitimate.

And, actually, my DCs are keyed off of intelligence- the perpiapt of wisdom is to give me more spells per day.

Blessed Book + getting spells free = shenanigans.
Presumably you spend all your life before the game ever starts by researching all the non-free spell filled pages of spells so you get all the divine spells for free.

Buying scrolls will be cheaper than trying to get people to help you make them assuming they charge the same fee to burn their spells and take up their time.


There you go.

So the game is set in FR, I presume?

[dextercorvia]

Honestly the best advice you have received so far is that Spellshard thingy. It costs about half of what you were spending your money on before, and replaces 2/3 of the cost. You haven't come close to buying 500 spells, so you don't need the extra capacity of the Blessed Book. Other than that, (50gp/spell level looking) + (100gp/spell level copying) is standard if your DM allows you to copy out of other Archivists prayerbook. Otherwise, you have to pay full scroll price. In that case you will be better off if your DM allows you to find Archivist created scrolls of Paladin spells, since you won't have to pay for the higher CL.

[Yuki Akuma]

It's in the Spell Compendium. Nothing stops it from being used in other settings - WotC just hasn't written any generic gods who have the domain.

[Cartigan]

It's in the Spell Compendium. Nothing stops it from being used in other settings - WotC just hasn't written any generic gods who have the domain.

So we break through Raven Loft into Forgotten Realms, find a Cleric of that Domain to make a spell of it for me then traverse back through Raven Loft to where the game actually takes place.

[Yuki Akuma]

The Plane of Shadow touches on every material plane - no need to go through Ravenloft specifically.

Alternatively, get a Spelljammer.

Nobody said being an Archivist was easy! That actually seems like a pretty fun side-quest - travelling to another material plane to get their spells.

[Coidzor]

So we break through Raven Loft into Forgotten Realms, find a Cleric of that Domain to make a spell of it for me then traverse back through Raven Loft to where the game actually takes place.

Well, in this particular setting, it's a pastiche, so it would exist... somewhere. Or could at least.

[Cartigan]

You haven't come close to buying 500 spells, so you don't need the extra capacity of the Blessed Book.
Unless the book works differently than a normal spell book, spells cost 1 page per spell level.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Blessed Book + getting spells free = shenanigans.
Presumably you spend all your life before the game ever starts by researching all the non-free spell filled pages of spells so you get all the divine spells for free.

Buying scrolls will be cheaper than trying to get people to help you make them assuming they charge the same fee to burn their spells and take up their time.



So the game is set in FR, I presume?


It's a pastiche setting, and (if this is about gods) I'm actually godless. >_>

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the buying scrolls thing; that's more expensive than either paying the suggested cost to let me copy spells, or paying the suggested cost to let me research them, at least for fourth level. I don't need to *make* scrolls at all- unless you mean trying to crib them from a friendly non-archivist divine caster via. joint scribe scroll?

EDIT: In case there's any confusion about shared knowledge, or our joint use of the word "Pastiche", Coidzor is a friend of mine, in addition to being the aforementioned cleric.

[Yuki Akuma]

Learning spells from non-Archivists requires them to scribe a scroll of it, yes.

You can pay the gp and xp cost for them, of course, so all they're losing is a spell slot.

Although the point is that in order to get Wall of Iron your setting would require at least one god with the Metal domain - or at least one Cleric of an Ideal(TM) who has the Metal domain.

[Coidzor]

The Plane of Shadow touches on every material plane - no need to go through Ravenloft specifically.

Alternatively, get a Spelljammer.

Nobody said being an Archivist was easy! That actually seems like a pretty fun side-quest - travelling to another material plane to get their spells.

Ok, any suggestions for how to get a Spelljammer in a campaign not already dependent upon getting one in order to advance the plot would just be awesome. :smallbiggrin:

And the game is the adventure Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, which makes it a bit less painful than the Dimensions of Dread themselves, I believe.

[Cartigan]

Only other Archivists have spellbooks, so unless there are lots of Archivists, it's a bit iffy.


Learning spells from non-Archivists requires them to scribe a scroll of it, yes.

You can pay the gp and xp cost for them, of course, so all they're losing is a spell slot.

And reasonably, would charge the same fee for their time and knowledge as a Wizard loaning a spellbook would.

[dextercorvia]

Unless the book works differently than a normal spell book, spells cost 1 page per spell level.

I was positive that Blessed Book takes 1 page per spell. It appears I was mistaken.

[Yuki Akuma]

I was positive that Blessed Book, takes 1 page per spell. It appears I was mistaken.

I think the 3e version did, but the 3.5 version doesn't.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Only other Archivists have spellbooks, so unless there are lots of Archivists, it's a bit iffy.



And reasonably, would charge the same fee for their time and knowledge as a Wizard loaning a spellbook would.

The archivist flavortext does say they they exist for pretty much every religion, and my character *has* spent his entire life connected to churches (and, on and off, one druidic circle); he's a former worshiper of Boccob (as Archivists are academic, it would make sense for him to have met more of them there,) and, finally, he's currently a freelance relic hunter who returns his trophies to assorted churches for safekeeping, so it'd make sense for him to be in contact with *their* archivists...

So, I don't think it's *too* unreasonable to say he's had opportunity to share notes once in a while- and I am still paying the suggested cost.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I was positive that Blessed Book takes 1 page per spell. It appears I was mistaken.

Eh, I'll look up that 500-page version- if I can get that it's a great choice for me, even if I do have to use up the excess pages. I'm only at somewhere over a hundred pages now, and presumably by the time I have the money to fill out the remaining 350 or so, I'll have enough money to buy another spellbook.

[dextercorvia]

Eh, I'll look up that 500-page version- if I can get that it's a great choice for me, even if I do have to use up the excess pages. I'm only at somewhere over a hundred pages now, and presumably by the time I have the money to fill out the remaining 350 or so, I'll have enough money to buy another spellbook.

You gotta figure, it is 12.5 gp/page scribing rather than 100gp/page.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

You gotta figure, it is 12.5 gp/page scribing rather than 100gp/page.

Wait, how do you figure?

My calculations:

Previously, I had 1 page per spell level, 100GP to write the page, and 50GP to copy it. If I got the spellshard, it would reduce it to just the latter cost.

Where does 12.5 come from?

[Kalim]

learning spells is easier for a wizard. other wizard spellbooks are common, swap spells with allies, take books from defeated enemies etc.

as Archivists are less common the chance to copy there books is also less common.

The most frequently suggested method is that the archivist will learn from scrolls.


Not quite.

As mentioned in another thread recently, an Archivist must merely walk into the temple of - well, let's call him Anygod. Any Cleric there with Scribe Scroll can whip him up a scroll of the spell he's after, because any Cleric ever can cast any spell ever, alignment restriction spells excluded. So long as he's not advertising that he's an Archivist, he can buy the scroll and leave to copy it into his prayer book. Repeat with more specific gods for domain (divine) versions of wizard spells, or with druids for druids spells, etc. Almost any spell in the game is at an Archivist's demand, if he's got the cash for them and isn't pissing off the Clerics with his way of doing things.

The Wizard has to go to the wizard's guild, which might maybe have someone who has it in their spellbook, possibly. If it's only the one guy, you have to hope he's willing to play ball with you.

As for how much to spend on protecting your prayerbook, just stick it in your haversack, and secure that at night with all your other stuff in a typical fashion. I'm fairly certain you don't need it present to cast spells - just to prepare them. No need to lug it around in person during the day, but you have to worry for thieves at night. You would have had to anyways, short of things like Rope Trick, but I wouldn't invest too much in extraordinary protective measures.

Filling it with spells will be expensive, but it's a good investment, if you're picking up good spells. Nab, say, Call Lightning for a cheap nuke and whatever other useful spells you want on deck, and go to town.

[dextercorvia]

Wait, how do you figure?

My calculations:

Previously, I had 1 page per spell level, 100GP to write the page, and 50GP to copy it. If I got the spellshard, it would reduce it to just the latter cost.

Where does 12.5 come from?

The cost of the spellshard. You are replacing 100gp/page for inks with 6250 for 500 pages that don't require inks. 6250/500=12.5.

The 50gp/spell level looksy cost remains.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

The cost of the spellshard. You are replacing 100gp/page for inks with 6250 for 500 pages that don't require inks. 6250/500=12.5.

The 50gp/spell level looksy cost remains.

Ah, yes.
I think that one will be a good buy for me, if I can A: convince my DM to let me use a wonderous item from another plane as my prayerbook when it B: Isn't a book, and assuming I can convince him of my 150GP per spell level thing.

As for the whole scribe scroll thing... I think that comes out to be more expensive than just buying them, unless I have an actual ally to scribe from.

I don't think the DM is too extraordinarily likely to try to destroy my spellbook, but I want some decent protectives on it anyway, if only because I'm paranoid after spending this much money.

[Cartigan]

I think there are some special papers and covers from one of the books that increases its hardiness.

[Yuki Akuma]

Store it in a hidden place and write a few spells in a throwaway prayerbook. Keep the throwaway in an obvious place.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I think there are some special papers and covers from one of the books that increases its hardiness.

Complete Aracane- yeah, my current version is 200 pages of thin-leafed ivory bound with dragonhide inside a slipcase. Both book and case are sacred relics that will spank any evil outsiders, shapeshifters or undead that touch them, and the book itself is enchanted with 4 or 5 points of elemental resistance.

Sadly, none of this helps against a normal human thief... I was considering putting a glyph of warding on it, too, but that would cost an extra 650 or so between learning and casting.

I was briefly considering trying to make the book immune to the effects of explosive runes, and then scribing them all over the damn thing, but I have no idea how to do the first step.

What I really need is either A: good divine trap spells that will do more than make someone eat some minor HP damage, or B: Some way of making sure the book can't leave my presence without my knowledge, or can be returned to me if it does.

I may just chain it around my neck after all.

[MrRigger]

Going back to your initial post, specifically the question about feats or items that are necessary, I think it is a crime to have an Archivist without Knowledge Devotion. Sure, inferior to Dark Knowledge, but if you're maxing Knowledge anyway, there's no reason not to pick it up. And if you're going to pick up some fun buffs, Extend Spell/Metamagic Rod are great.

MrRigger

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Going back to your initial post, specifically the question about feats or items that are necessary, I think it is a crime to have an Archivist without Knowledge Devotion. Sure, inferior to Dark Knowledge, but if you're maxing Knowledge anyway, there's no reason not to pick it up. And if you're going to pick up some fun buffs, Extend Spell/Metamagic Rod are great.

MrRigger

Appreciated- I'm a little leery about knowledge devotion, just cause I'm not a fighter, but I have been going for attack rolls over save DCs, and I do have that one spell that turns me into a bulette, so I'll probably take it.

*waves a fond farewell to Nature Archivist....sigh...*

Heard back from my DM, at last- he's letting me get away with 100GP per spell level, under the assumption that I had a master or someone to copy spells from. Using the extra cash to pick up druid and ranger utility magic.