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View Full Version : Redoing the cleric from the ground up (3.x)



Shpadoinkle
2011-03-30, 03:42 AM
So I've been thinking for a while about clerics. Namely, about how they're all very similar to each other, despite their gods being very different. Domains kind of start along the path of differentiating them from each other, but despite that clerics all still very same-ey to me, which I've never liked much. Why does a cleric of Olidamarra, god of thieves and trickery, know how to wear platemail and cave in skulls with a mace, but can't even sneak around decently without using magic or cross-classing?

So I came up with the idea of making the class a template of sorts, but I could never figure out a way to do it that didn't feel really clunky and didn't overpower the crap out of things. Why be a regular wizard when you can be a cleric!wizard, with both spell lists and spells per day?

I had another idea to differentiate clerics of different gods by depowering the base cleric class and giving them different class abilities based on their chosen domains (Healing domain would grant Lay on Hands, Strength would grant a limited barbarian rage, Trickery would get Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Disable Device as class skills, etc.)

Then it occurred to me to combine the two ideas- use other classes as a chassis, lose all the spells on the cleric list aside from a few basic spells and skills, and gain powers and spells based on your domain choice.

This is just a rough idea for now, but the basics of it are this:

-Picking one domain gets you the domain and its power, as written.
-Picking two domains gets you the spells in both, but no granted powers.
-Picking three domains gets you the spells in all three, but staggered by one every three levels (you only count as being 2/3 your cleric level for determining your spells per day) and no granted powers.

Now, why play a wizard, when a cleric!wizard is so much better? Well, for one, using the cleric template delays your chassis class' abilities by some levels- a cleric!wizard wouldn't get 2nd level spells at level 3, he'd have to wait until level 4.

Just eyeballing it, I'm thinking delaying regular class progression by 1/4 levels- that is, at 1st level you don't gain your class' regular abilities and instead your cleric powers increase. Then, at level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, your cleric abilities increase again, but your regular class' abilities are staggered by one more level (this would be cumulative- a cleric!wizard, at level 20, would only cast as a level 14 wizard.)

Obviously domains are going to have to be redone to make some of them worth taking and not horribly useless- the plant, animal, and elemental domains come to mind, for instance. Being able to turn a single type of creature is essentially useless, and MIGHT come up once or twice in an entire campaign, if your DM feels like throwing you a bone.

This is just the base of an idea- I wanted to get it written out while it was still fresh in my mind.

grimbold
2011-03-30, 05:01 AM
obviously this is a good idea
however i am afraid to tell you it has already been done, there is a variant that gives clerics spontaneous casting and makes them feel different. I also believe that there is already a 'different skills for different gods' variant

Shpadoinkle
2011-03-30, 05:27 AM
obviously this is a good idea
however i am afraid to tell you it has already been done, there is a variant that gives clerics spontaneous casting and makes them feel different. I also believe that there is already a 'different skills for different gods' variant

Could you possibly tell me where, please?

Eldan
2011-03-30, 06:51 AM
Unearthed Arcana probably has a bit of that, at least there's a spontaneous caster option. There's also Alternate Class Features in various books, which seems what you are trying to accomplish.

Canarr
2011-03-30, 07:00 AM
Hey,

new to the forums here, although long-term fan of the comic; maybe I can give a helpful suggestion.

I'd try to take a look at Divine Masters, from Kenzer & Co (www.kenzerco.com). It details all the gods from the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting, and gives alternate game stats for every god's clerics - different skill sets, weapon & armor proficiencies, turn/rebuke abilities, and specials.

If you're looking for diverse clerics, that's your ticket.