Sanity and Iron Heart Surge

[Stallion]

A question to the Playground!

How would Iron Heart Surge affect Sanity points? Would it help recover any? Would it be totally useless? Does this theoretically sun-erasing maneuver (don't start, I know it really doesn't) help keep you from going INSANE??!?!?!?

[Stegyre]

IMO, Iron Heart Surge (IHS) does not repair any damage of any sort. You can no more use IHS to recover sanity points than you could use it to recover hit points or ability damage.

IHS can be used to end a condition or effect. Once we start considering lost points to come within those headings, people will start using IHS to end the "condition" of poverty, or injury, or attribute burn. (Yah! A new abuse for the Body Fuel feat; psionic classes everywhere rejoice!)

[Zaranthan]

If you need an OOC explanation for why IHS didn't protect someone from sanity damage, it's because the eldritch abomination actively damages the sanity of everyone within line-of-sight every round, rather than being a continuous effect that applies to those who are looking at it.

[Douglas]

IMO, Iron Heart Surge (IHS) does not repair any damage of any sort. You can no more use IHS to recover sanity points than you could use it to recover hit points or ability damage.

IHS can be used to end a condition or effect. Once we start considering lost points to come within those headings, people will start using IHS to end the "condition" of poverty, or injury, or attribute burn. (Yah! A new abuse for the Body Fuel feat; psionic classes everywhere rejoice!)
Ah, but "Ability Damaged" and "Ability Drained" are in the official conditions list (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/conditions.htm). "Hit point damaged" is not. Therefore, IHS can cure ability damage and drain but not hp damage.

Sadly, unless "Sanity damaged" is an official condition somewhere this means that IHS cannot fix it.

[aquaticrna]

so i've not seen IHS and sanity "points" combined in the same game before... but isn't there an "insane" condition already in dnd? (or is that just a spell >_> )

[Cartigan]

All I can think of is "Taint" from Heroes of Horror.

[Douglas]

so i've not seen IHS and sanity "points" combined in the same game before... but isn't there an "insane" condition already in dnd? (or is that just a spell >_> )
Confused (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#confused), yes, but not "Insane". The Insanity spell really just causes permanent Confusion as I recall.

[Ranos]

Rather than removing Sanity points, I think IHS would transfer them.
Into the DM.

[Ravens_cry]

Actually, Iron Heart Surge does that at any time, even when the Sanity system isn't used.

[GreyMantle]

You could also just use it to eliminate gravity so that you'll float away from the source of insanity.

[Asheram]

Iron heart surge = Ends effect: Good guy DM

[Fouredged Sword]

There are a few readings of IHS.

reading one - the effect goes away. -IHS away gravity
Reading 2 - an effect that disapates on it's own goes away - IHS away negative levels
Reading 3 - an effect that lasts a duration explicitly measured in rounds goes away - IHS away glitterdust

All the readings I have read suggest that IHS does not work on anything that is a loss of something you have already. You can remove the conditioned of blindness, but not damage, as damage is a decreaing of something you already have. If sanity is explained as something you loose rather than sanity damage being a condition you gain than IHS would be inefective.

As with all RAW questions your Dm is final word. Please direct all questions to him, her, or it for final judgment.

[Telonius]

Iron heart surge = Ends effect: Good guy DM

If the game is keeping track of Sanity points, doesn't that imply "Good Guy DM" was never in effect to begin with? :smallbiggrin:

[ffone]

DM Counter: Dominate/Suggest the character into using IHS to remove the condition of 'knowing the IHS maneuver'.

IHS is maybe the worst sentence written in a manual ever. It reminds me of nothing so much as the kids on the playground playing at superhoes or whatever, 'zapping' each other with some ability and then making up counters on the spot. It's Batman's Shark Repellent - that he keeps in a helicopter.

[Curmudgeon]

It's Batman's Shark Repellent - that he keeps in a helicopter.
Well, Saturday Night Live had land sharks; I guess Gotham City environs might have air sharks. :smallbiggrin:

[Telonius]

Well, Saturday Night Live had land sharks; I guess Gotham City environs might have air sharks. :smallbiggrin:

It's a little-known hazard, but it's always best to be prepared.

http://chromix.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/shark.jpg

[ffone]

lol.

IHS is a very Plot Armor like ability, isn't it? "Something's - almost anything's - adversely affecting you. You fix it!"

[Sarco_Phage]

No, plot armor is when the plot bends around your heroes to ensure they can't die.

IHS is more of an act of disbelief. You disbelieve so hard that whatever's affecting you ceases to exist.

[ffone]

Ahh, so IHS is Post-Modernism!

[Alleran]

I just received a mental image of a "DM" in the "Gurren Lagann" campaign trying to give Kamina/Simon insanity points, and one or the other (or both) just uses IHS to willpower, manly courage and fighting spirit the insanity away.