PDA

View Full Version : New DM -- General/Plot Help! Please?



Demon In Me
2011-03-31, 02:27 AM
So, I've been playing Second Edition AD&D for about 2? years now. Recently tried to DM my first campaign which went...eh. I basically tried to take on more than I could chew with about 6 players, including a newbie who I was trying to teach. It scared me off for a bit, but I recently decided to give it another go to try and give my DM a chance to play a bit more.

Unfortunately, as I'm trying to draw up some ideas for the campaign, I find myself falling short...My mind seems to be all over the place, so I decided to come here, since my DM is a player and I can't really ask him for advice without giving away sh*t so...It's an Epic campaign, and this is the general outline with key events that I'm hoping to lead the players to(barring unforseen events). Apologies for the long post, but here goes:

Players:
Ellyan : A male human paladin of Apollo with a bit of Psionic wild talent (Dimension Door). Played by my DM who's been playing for years and knows practically every character in the Monster Manual, so I want to try to mix things up with some palette changing to give him a scare or two, unless someone has a monster from another system/edition they can help me port to 2nd edition.
Calla : A female human priestess/thief of Aphrodite. Played by my friend, who started playing with me, so 1 and a half to 2 years experience.
Lysandros : A male human fighter/thief of Poseidon. Played by another friend, but he's played for a bit longer, less than my DM though. Still, he knows a good amount about a lot of different systems.

Now, I don't think any of my players(MA area) read these boards, but if you have a character with any of those names, with a DM who's been putting off, and delaying, and generally taking too long (I'm sorry!) with the campaign outline, you should probably stop reading and check with your DM before continuing, just in case...

The world of Elendir:
Etreia is a country which is populated by mostly humans who worship the Greek Pantheon. The emperor is being manipulated currently by a dark follower of a dead god into waging a war against any who are different or disagree with the Empire's way of life. Due to this manipulation, the emperor treats any non-human and anyone possessing magical or psionic talent as basically second class citizens. He's cut off trade with nearly everyone else. The country is poor, and as the farmers and laborers starve the Lords only get richer from illegal endeavors and/or from the hard work of the peasants. Raids have been conducted into the lands of Tirindar(land of Elves who worship the Celtic Gods), Glanvir(land of Dwarves who worship the Norse Gods), and the nomads of the plains and desert who worship the old gods.

The Story:
Each player is going to have an origin story, per se. A single session that sets up the scene, lets them sink into their character's skin, and gets them to the rest of the party. All three will be going to Alera, the capitol city of Etreia, where they have been drafted into the army for a required tour of duty.

Ellyan, as a wild talent, is required to go. The Inquisition(run by the Lord Chancellor Krymenes Fidrae, the evil follower) decreed that any and all persons who show talent in magic or psionics is required to serve his country.

Calla will be informed by her High Priestess that the empire has requested of the temple of Aphrodite to supply a healer to the army. As a newly "graduated" priestess, the High Priestess has selected her, since a lot of of the other priestesses are either too old, too young, or in positions of import within the temple structure. (This seems a bit weak to me, honestly. I really want to give personal reasons why each of them are drafted, instead of anyone else, but this is certainly better than Lysandros...)

Lysandros I'm a little stumped on. For right now, I'm basically leaning towards he either gets picked up coming off a boat(he's a sailor) or in some kind of town or is given a notice by his ship captain or something. I don't know. Regardless, he as well has been summoned by the Empire to serve it's glory and protect and defend.

Each origin session will be relatively simple. They'll get their army notices, and they travel. Mostly I'm using it as a device to showcase the world and allow each character to form thoughts and opinions of the state of the Empire independent of the party. Each character will encounter bandits, deserted towns, broken down people, etc. (Any particular suggestions here? Any encounters or happenings that basically show that Etreia's people are starving, the rich are getting richer, and underneath it all is a general black...malaise without having demons flying around...Like dead bodies eaten by something definitely not a normal creature or some such. KInda the feel I'm going for here.)

Once they arrive amidst a whole bunch of other people, they'll basically be grouped. Healers/Clerics, such as Calla will be in their own division, assigned as adjuncts to army divisions. Ellyan and Lysandros will be placed in an elite unit, based on their already existing fighting and specialty skills, along with some other NPCs, while the rest, the farmers, peasants, labourers, workers, are thrown into the general army as meat shields, etc.

The commander will be splitting the elite group into groups of three to tackle small missions, such as scouting, information gathering, or bandit takedown within the Empire. Basically, things that a smaller, more mobile group would be better designed for. A couple I had thought of was routing an orc/goblin bandit camp, investigating the disappearance of a town, tracking down an Elven mage who was trying to run from his own required army service, etc. Any suggestions would be most appreciative. This is kind of a chance for me to just get used to DMing and improvising on the spot and really absorbing the rules(especially the ones I don't use as a player!).

Eventually, there'll be some mission(a smuggling operation which happens to lead them to a plot to assassinate the Emperor, one in which a cloaked Krymenes is there is what I was thinking, but suggestions here are also welcome...) that brings them to the Lord Chancellor's(Krymenes') attention. He'll request their aid in rooting out a Lord(evidence will point largely to Lord Darragh, who is actually becoming suspicious of Krymenes and wants to help the Etreian people) who's plotting treason against the Emperor. On an annual tour of the Empire, in the city of Darragh(a large, rich port city), someone will try to kill the king. Regardless of whether it fails or succeeds, I'm thinking that Krymenes will try and pin the blame on the PCs. Or I was, orginally, thinking that. This is kind where this general outline starts to fall apart. For one, being a Paladin, Ellyan will probably stick around and try to fight through it or whatever legally, and that would lead to a sticky situation in that if they're still found guilty due to whatever fabricated evidence Krymenes produces, then Ellyan won't want to run, and they'll hang. If they're not found guilty, the PCs as outcasts and pariahs in their own country(the result I want) won't happen, though I guess it's incredibly hard to outrun a murder charge, especially of the king, but...eh. Seems weak. I was thinking Darragh could get into it and let them escape, basically saying that Krymenes has fixed the trial and bribed the judge...but I feel that would give too much of my hand away and ****. Any suggestions here would be nice.

Moving on from there, an old brotherhood will come forward and explain to the PCs that they are the Chosen Ones, because...eh, I don't know, something(Suggestions?), and that Darragh/Krymenes(I would prefer Darragh, but I can't if he helps them escape. I can, perhaps, have Krymenes himself help them escape, I guess, and try to lead them into the general actions, but...he's the one who accused them. I don't know. Suggestions would be great.) is an evil sorcerer who controls the king and is bent on destroying the world in fire and blood and brimstone, yada, yada, yada. The town of Darragh is a demonic pit full of his agents and they, as the Chosen Ones, need to find the Orb of Purification and use it to purify the town. It will banish all the demons, including Darragh, to hell and everything will be spiffy. They'll be given a map and some money and some instructions as to how to activate the orb and sent on their way.

Unfortunately, it's a trick. The brotherhood is non-existent, they actually work for Krymenes, and are trying to get the PCs to wipe out the entire town of Darragh, including its Lord, who is actually a Warden(either one of 4/6/8 or however many immortal[long-lived, not indestructable immortal] warriors/mages who made a pact with the old gods to protect Elendir from the awakening of the dead god, who's bad, or a highly secretive organization of various races/classes bent on the same thing. Any ideas? I really can't decide which one is...better? An organization is more wide-spread so I have more flexibility with it as a tool to advance the plot, but as an organization, rather than a single individual, some plot holes come into play, like why haven't they stopped Krymenes before this, why aren't there more people fighting, etc...)

If they do it, well, one of the Wardens is dead, the Paladin loses his powers for a bit and has to atone, and they know for a fact that something bigger than them is happening. If they don't, well, they still end up knowing that someone is trying to deceive them.

I really start to stall here. I'm thinking that either Darragh(if they don't destroy the town) or another Warden coming to investigate will let them know a bit of information, and then go off to find the others. I'm thinking that Krymenes pretty much picked them all off, one by one, except the last. This will take care of any questions like, "Why aren't more uber people than us handling this?", as the people who were suppose, can't. I'm also thinking that the weapon of one of the Wardens will be found by one of the PCs, so that at this point we have an idea that at least some of the Wardens are dead or missing.

After the incident with Darragh, I'd pretty much figured to really start ramping things up. Evil creatures and krakens and magical creatures really start to come out of the woodworks of a world that has largely written them off as myth. The PCs have to find a way to heal the hurts inflicted by centuries of argument and racism so that the world isn't swallowed by a god who is pissed he was killed by the Architect(world-creator) and insane from years as nothing more than a presence(basically his body was killed, but being a god he did not die, merely existed without thought or form or something).

__________________________________________________ _______________

Alright. I know this can get specific and is a very long outline, but I'm generally careful about railroading when DMing. Granted, I only did it once for a few sessions, but I figure if I can't come up with a way to make whatever my players do work with the bigger events of the plot, then I probably shouldn't be DMing. I did want to come up with the bigger events and a general chain of 'em to make use of foreshadowing and rumors and stuff like that though.

I've pretty much got Ellyan's origin session taken care of, however I would like some more convincing/personal reasons to get Calla and Lysandros to the army. I guess I can have Lysandros on a mission for a thieves guild and have him get arrested and sent to the army as punishment? Anyways, if you have any thoughts on this that would be welcome.

From the origin sessions on, for about four levels, I'm keeping it pretty vanilla. They get missions, they do them however they want, they succeed or fail, whatever. Some of them may have hints as to the deeper, darker plot at hand(undead, maybe a few unknown creatures, dark rituals, whatever), but subtely. I want to use this as a chance to really get a handle on drafting up encounters and session outlines and improvising and in-the-heat-of-the-moment judgement calls. That said, I could really use some ideas for a variety of run-of-the-mill medieval missions, especially any that could possibly provide a clue to the deeper story. Basically, I want to give them some kind of...hints to work with once they start to work with Krymenes without giving it away within five seconds.

Any way that Krymenes can manipulate or mess with the players and the rest of the world politically would be a welcome addition. For this part of the plot, it's a behind the scenes game where the players play their hands. I'm hoping for an "Oh, sh*t!" moment, where the players realize they've been had completely and utterly. But my players are smart, soo...if you any ideas, great.

And then any epicness after that would be awesome. After the "Oh, sh*t!" moment the players will have to find a way to find out how to stop Krymenes from ressurrecting his god and casting the rest of the world into peril. The Emperor had a wife, who died(was killed, actually, by Krymenes) upon giving birth to a daughter, and he remarried a succubus in disguise who is assisting with manipulating him...Anyways, the daughter is considered an unfit heir, which contributes to the general unease. I was thinking of using her somehow to pass on information, or something. Also, I was thinking of taking a page out of the book of DA:O and have the players attempt to rally the rest of the races and get some info from them. However, at this point, I don't know how Krymenes is going to ressurect his god, and since I don't know that, I don't know the options to stop him.

And...that's that. I apologize for the length, again, and I apologize for any reptitiveness. It's nearly 3:30am here and my mind wander and I ended up...repeating stuff. So. Sorry. But, any help would be appreciated!

LansXero
2011-03-31, 06:05 AM
I'm generally careful about railroading when DMing. Granted, I only did it once for a few sessions, but I figure if I can't come up with a way to make whatever my players do work with the bigger events of the plot, then I probably shouldn't be DMing.

I think 'railroading' isnt about having a set of circumstances and events planned out, but about restricting player choice only to very specific actions and reactions. So long as you have a cohesivelly, established world, logic should help you work out the result of your PCs actions (And you do have a very nice set up, with lots of characters. Just ask yourself how they / the world would react to what your PCs do and follow it).


I did want to come up with the bigger events and a general chain of 'em to make use of foreshadowing and rumors and stuff like that though.

During the origin stories Id have them hear conflicting rumors. As in:
- Krymenes is a traitorous witch-spawn and is rotting the king from inside out!. His foul magics weaken the king and the kingdom!.
- Krymenes is trying to stay the king's hand or things would be even worse! To some it comes off as treason, but his heart is with his people!.
- Krymenes is a sell out! The raids on foreign lands are only trying to weaken our nation to make it easier for his foreign masters to enslave us!

And so on, by bards or public speakers or drunks or madmen. Characters will all join the party with a different image of the guy, which will be interesting to play out, and Players will be all like "wait, so is he the bad guy? or is he setting us up to think he is the bad guy but he really isnt? or is it the other way around? ARGH!" which should confuse them enough :D. Maybe one of the ways to set the atmsphere would be having one of these rumourmongers be shot down in an open plaza while no one moves to do anything. Add cruelty as you see fit (A lone mother crying over a dead idealist son's corpse met with indifference, jolly and mostly harmless drunken beggars kicked into a bloody mess for speaking their minds, maybe the rumours come from children playing as nobles and still they are met by swords, etc.)


I've pretty much got Ellyan's origin session taken care of, however I would like some more convincing/personal reasons to get Calla and Lysandros to the army. I guess I can have Lysandros on a mission for a thieves guild and have him get arrested and sent to the army as punishment? Anyways, if you have any thoughts on this that would be welcome.

Calla's story isnt that weak tbh. Instead of her being a last minute resource, however, make it a prize. This way, you skip her being filed down the rank and file clergy; she is the special envoy of the temple to this 'elite' fighting unit. The king's favor on the temple's current head depends on her performance and the acomplishments of her party. Will make the part where they get accused all the most intense, since its a bigger fall from grace. Might even give the paladin a reason to retreat, to protect her honour and that of her goddess or something. Maybe.

For the Posseidon Thief, an undercover mission seems good, but involve no guilds, instead make it personal. IF you go with Call's being the precious child of her temple, make him her opposite: someone who holds a grudge with the kingdom and joins in to subvert it from inside. However, being plain disruptive wont work, since the damage he can do there is very limited; he wants to grow big and important and sink his fangs very deep before he bites the tyrant's neck. Or something like that. The paladin should have fun trying to balance them against each other :D


From the origin sessions on, for about four levels, I'm keeping it pretty vanilla. They get missions, they do them however they want, they succeed or fail, whatever. Some of them may have hints as to the deeper, darker plot at hand(undead, maybe a few unknown creatures, dark rituals, whatever), but subtely. I want to use this as a chance to really get a handle on drafting up encounters and session outlines and improvising and in-the-heat-of-the-moment judgement calls. That said, I could really use some ideas for a variety of run-of-the-mill medieval missions, especially any that could possibly provide a clue to the deeper story. Basically, I want to give them some kind of...hints to work with once they start to work with Krymenes without giving it away within five seconds.

- Raid the monsters that were threatening the nearby village
Except no one in the village talks to them, and some villagers end up trying to defend the monsters. Turns out they were protecting a nature shrine and fight faeries or a nature spirit (cant get out of it because they already attacked and the spirits/fairies will retaliate regardless). Afterwards they are ordered to retreat; if they stick around they learn something was retrieved from the site by shadowy people (something to revive the dark god, some warden had set up the shrine and now has an enmity against the party that they may have to overcome eventually to join against the bigger threat. When you way later introduce said warden and tell them he resents them, explain, and they will go: WAIT, YOU PLAN THIS FAR AHEAD? :o :o)
- Bust out the rebel hideout.
Local royal establishments have been attacked and military outposts sabotaged by a band of rebels / bandits that hide in the nearby woods. They are more familiar with the area and use the wildlife as a shield, so the PCs have to use both stealth and strength to reach the innermost part, where they will find the bandits/rebels gathering, in quite a large number (probably too large to take head on). They have the tools to set the place ablaze and lock them in, with very little risk to themselves but much to the forest, or they could try poisoning the exposed water barrels, or creating a distraction to lure a fraction away and engage separatedly, etc. Anyways, in the end turns out the rebels/bandits are 14 -16 at the oldest. Make them wear cloaks and hoods, and dont make the paladin fall for killing them unless he does so after he knows they are mostly kids.
- Kill the witch
Local authorities report the loss of valuable miners and lumberjacks to a dwarvish witch that lives deep in the hills, who kidnaps them for her evil rituals. She has taken residence deep within one of the tunnels and is driving production down by scaring off tthe miners and spreading rumors of curses and other witchy things. She has also filled the tunnels with small constructs and elementals, and so the party's assistance is required. Turns out the 'witch' is an old dwarven woman who secrets away deserters and their families who are tired of the abusive mine work over to dworf lands, through tunnels only she knows.
- The Elven Maiden
There are rumours that in a lumbering town an elven sleeper cell has begun stirring, and smugglers are travelling through the forests to supply them with weapons to stage a rebellion. The party can investigate the village to expose the instigator (a young woman who is an elf in disguise and openly protests against the lack of basic healthcare and living conditions of the people) and intercept the smugglers to prove her guilt. Once they realize who it is, the local authorities will take her into custody, and she will probably be hanged; but the smugglers, when defeated, will be found to have been carrying food and medical supplies to this and other border towns, at the elf's expense. Said elf happened to be daughter to a powerful noble, who will be very aggravated.

Sorry if they arent run of the mill enough or not apropriate for your campaign idea.


Any way that Krymenes can manipulate or mess with the players and the rest of the world politically would be a welcome addition. For this part of the plot, it's a behind the scenes game where the players play their hands. I'm hoping for an "Oh, sh*t!" moment, where the players realize they've been had completely and utterly. But my players are smart, soo...if you any ideas, great.

Id make it so he appears to be likeable and charismatic (sorceror, right? :D) and willing to put himself in the line for the kingdom. When there is a time the kingdom needs financial aid, he empties his coffers to refill the royal treasure (it was money he had swindled away anyhow, and he pretty much runs the kingdom, so its no harm for him and a huge PR boost); when the people or local nobles complains, or the party brings up issues with their findings, he always puts the king as an excuse; the king is paranoid and doesnt want to have an audience with anyone, but if the PCs insist in talking to him let them, and show them a frail man scared of his own shadow. If they question him make Krymenes shield them from his wrath (mostly because he enjoys making the king back down like the servant it has turned into) and that should leave them convinced he is his people's servant. Oh and that financial aid bit? Thats how he has everyone in his palm: He either knows they also dilapidated the king's gold, or they owe him enough that no favor is too big. Or both. Also this way he can earn the troops support, which is very important if you want to take over the kingdom.

Make whatever hint they find point out not to one man, but to "nobles" or "the throne" or "people in power". Surely some of the nobles are in Krymenes' cult, and they may be directly responsible for some nastyness or other (creating undead, human sacrifice, rampant hedonism, canibalism, unsanctioned gladiatorial games, etc) but dont make it clear where the end lies.


And then any epicness after that would be awesome. After the "Oh, sh*t!" moment the players will have to find a way to find out how to stop Krymenes from ressurrecting his god and casting the rest of the world into peril. The Emperor had a wife, who died(was killed, actually, by Krymenes) upon giving birth to a daughter, and he remarried a succubus in disguise who is assisting with manipulating him...Anyways, the daughter is considered an unfit heir, which contributes to the general unease. I was thinking of using her somehow to pass on information, or something. Also, I was thinking of taking a page out of the book of DA:O and have the players attempt to rally the rest of the races and get some info from them. However, at this point, I don't know how Krymenes is going to ressurect his god, and since I don't know that, I don't know the options to stop him.

Killing Krymenes would be a way to stopping him. But if he has a power base big enough, even his death wont suffice. The refused heir is a good touch, and if you play the king as a weakened sociopath, him destituting his own daughter out of fear would be a good plan. Maybe have the succubus charm her into a "magical ritual to restore our ailing country" which gets busted out by oh so noble Krymenes and then the girl is thrown into jail to rot as a witch?

As for the rebirthing ritual itself, make it involve things the PCs have attained through their early quests, or events they have been part of. Maybe even have it consists of covering the capitol in sigils, and then the final step is of the PCs own doing: they lead their forces against Krymenes army of abominations and as they battle in the streets their combined spilled blood forms odd patterns and shines a malevolent crimson; once unleashed the hatred between enemies keeps growing beyond rationality, and anyways once joined the battle can only continue with more bloodshed. . . which is the final step in the god's rebirth,

caden_varn
2011-03-31, 06:28 AM
Lysandros I'm a little stumped on. For right now, I'm basically leaning towards he either gets picked up coming off a boat(he's a sailor) or in some kind of town or is given a notice by his ship captain or something. I don't know. Regardless, he as well has been summoned by the Empire to serve it's glory and protect and defend.

I'd suggest talking to the player in advance to get his input/agreement (I'd suggest this with all of them to be honest). He will probably have some ideas on how he got drafted himself that you might like - why do all the work yourself, especially on something that is essentially part of the character background? So long as the player understands that he will be in the army at the start of the game, it should be fine.

But I think your suggestion of getting drafted as a punishment for some crime is a good way to handle it.
Another way would be for him to join up voluntarily rather than be drafted - in the army you get feed each day, wine ration etc - better than starving on the streets or labouring on a farm to make some rich guy even richer.

Demon In Me
2011-04-02, 01:21 AM
Calla's story isnt that weak tbh. Instead of her being a last minute resource, however, make it a prize. This way, you skip her being filed down the rank and file clergy; she is the special envoy of the temple to this 'elite' fighting unit. The king's favor on the temple's current head depends on her performance and the acomplishments of her party. Will make the part where they get accused all the most intense, since its a bigger fall from grace. Might even give the paladin a reason to retreat, to protect her honour and that of her goddess or something. Maybe.

Wow. That actually works pretty good. Her accomplishments/performance being a reflection of her temple is not only a really great personal reason for her to want to go and do well, but also gives me a chance to highlight the religious tensions within the country(With the exception of the god of the Emperor, the other temples rise and fall in grace with his whim and can have disastrous effects for a particular temple, especially one as small as Calla's)




Sorry if they arent run of the mill enough or not apropriate for your campaign idea.

No, actually, those are great. Exactly what I was looking for. :) I especially love the idea about the Elven maiden.

I did have one question, though...



Local royal establishments have been attacked and military outposts sabotaged by a band of rebels / bandits that hide in the nearby woods. They are more familiar with the area and use the wildlife as a shield, so the PCs have to use both stealth and strength to reach the innermost part, where they will find the bandits/rebels gathering, in quite a large number (probably too large to take head on). They have the tools to set the place ablaze and lock them in, with very little risk to themselves but much to the forest, or they could try poisoning the exposed water barrels, or creating a distraction to lure a fraction away and engage separatedly, etc. Anyways, in the end turns out the rebels/bandits are 14 -16 at the oldest. Make them wear cloaks and hoods, and dont make the paladin fall for killing them unless he does so after he knows they are mostly kids.

Why? The player of the paladin is THE most experienced player in the group. I guess my thought process here is that if he doesn't take the time to find out who the bandits are, I don't see why I should push him to that information. I guess my inclination is to present the situation and let their own actions determine the reward/consequences, especially if I leave this one particular quest until after they already have an idea that all might not be as it seems in Etreia...but I am hesitant to, unintentionally, screw the Paladin over unfairly, so to speak...This ties into the whole orb of destruction thing later, because again, I do want to make /sure/ that he has every chance and opportunity to save himself the aggravation that comes from an evil act, whether unintentional or not, especially since I am hoping to introduce less clear cut examples of good and evil. So, how far is too far? If I offer the hints and he doesn't take them, is it my fault? Is it bad form, so to speak, not to put a sign above the encampment that says "Hold on! Check out this orb/bandits first!!"?


I'd suggest talking to the player in advance to get his input/agreement (I'd suggest this with all of them to be honest). He will probably have some ideas on how he got drafted himself that you might like - why do all the work yourself, especially on something that is essentially part of the character background? So long as the player understands that he will be in the army at the start of the game, it should be fine.

But I think your suggestion of getting drafted as a punishment for some crime is a good way to handle it.
Another way would be for him to join up voluntarily rather than be drafted - in the army you get feed each day, wine ration etc - better than starving on the streets or labouring on a farm to make some rich guy even richer.

I had spoken with each of them previously but none of them had been entirely sure. From what I gathered, he was previously the son of a rich merchant family who accidently overheard a nobleman's plot and was thus driven out of business. Lysandros was sent to Darragh, a port city, to be with extended family and eventually became a ship captain, but was caught smuggling and so lost his ship. Hence I was thinking of tying it into the smuggling, ie, have the Thieves Guild try and recruit him for another mission, only an informant was involved and so Lysandros is caught in the midst type deal...I don't want to give away too much, because it's largely an interactive origin story.


Id make it so he appears to be likeable and charismatic (sorceror, right? :D) and willing to put himself in the line for the kingdom. When there is a time the kingdom needs financial aid, he empties his coffers to refill the royal treasure (it was money he had swindled away anyhow, and he pretty much runs the kingdom, so its no harm for him and a huge PR boost); when the people or local nobles complains, or the party brings up issues with their findings, he always puts the king as an excuse; the king is paranoid and doesnt want to have an audience with anyone, but if the PCs insist in talking to him let them, and show them a frail man scared of his own shadow. If they question him make Krymenes shield them from his wrath (mostly because he enjoys making the king back down like the servant it has turned into) and that should leave them convinced he is his people's servant. Oh and that financial aid bit? Thats how he has everyone in his palm: He either knows they also dilapidated the king's gold, or they owe him enough that no favor is too big. Or both. Also this way he can earn the troops support, which is very important if you want to take over the kingdom.

Make whatever hint they find point out not to one man, but to "nobles" or "the throne" or "people in power". Surely some of the nobles are in Krymenes' cult, and they may be directly responsible for some nastyness or other (creating undead, human sacrifice, rampant hedonism, canibalism, unsanctioned gladiatorial games, etc) but dont make it clear where the end lies. .

Again, some really great ideas. I had forgotten about the whole, "follow the money" type deal, and didn't think about the whole troops idea. I can definitely highlight his financial support of the troops early on in a kinda throwaway manner by having Krymenes use his own money to resupply the troops.

Yes, a lot of the nobles are in Krymenes' power. One of the reasons he wants to frame Lord Darragh is specifically because Lord Darragh is not, is generally a good man, and is lord of one of the largest cities and wealthiest cities in Etreia. He's a danger to Krymenes' plans, and as such, Krymenes' is trying to get rid of him. However, if I can sprinkle in one or two rumors of evil acts about the other nobles, and then have Darragh let them go due to information about a bribed trial...Krymenes' need not be mentioned and the Bigger Evil can be preserved while also giving them a couple of red herrings. Definitely some possibilities there. ^^




As for the rebirthing ritual itself, make it involve things the PCs have attained through their early quests, or events they have been part of. Maybe even have it consists of covering the capitol in sigils, and then the final step is of the PCs own doing: they lead their forces against Krymenes army of abominations and as they battle in the streets their combined spilled blood forms odd patterns and shines a malevolent crimson; once unleashed the hatred between enemies keeps growing beyond rationality, and anyways once joined the battle can only continue with more bloodshed. . . which is the final step in the god's rebirth,

Having the ritual of rebirth involve earlier quests is an interesting idea, at least as a starting point or destination along the way or surprise at the end(items they handed over earlier serving as a tool?). Etreia amongst the countries has a reputation of being arrogant and cruel, and it's citizens not well liked amongst the other lands. In addition, most of the creatures of magic have been pushed to the farthest corners of the world...I had a thought that to stop Krymenes, they would need to go beyond the lands of Etreia and deal with the hatred that being a citizen comes with, as well as discovering all the wonders that had long been pushed into myth in their own country, but still exist.

I do like the idea of the final step being of the PC's own doing...Especially if they have bad luck in messing with his plans up until that. If more bloodshed only helps, how do they stop his army of abominations? Or even more to the point, the actual killing of Krymenes could be the final straw, in which the god takes over his body.



Wow. Definitely some possibilities here...Certainly has my mind churning with plots and schemes. I really appreciate the new perspective and ideas, I was kinda at a loss at where to go from what I around had.

LansXero
2011-04-03, 06:36 AM
Wow. That actually works pretty good. Her accomplishments/performance being a reflection of her temple is not only a really great personal reason for her to want to go and do well, but also gives me a chance to highlight the religious tensions within the country(With the exception of the god of the Emperor, the other temples rise and fall in grace with his whim and can have disastrous effects for a particular temple, especially one as small as Calla's)

Why would the temple of the Goddess of Love be in the graces of the kingdom? Because they tend to get the prettiest / inocentest recruits, who are then 'loaned' for the nobles . . urgh . . . "use"? Would twist things around I guess :S. Not a great idea perhaps, still glad I got to be helpful the first time around xD




No, actually, those are great. Exactly what I was looking for. :) I especially love the idea about the Elven maiden.

I did have one question, though...

If they do the other quests first and remorselessly go in and murder everything, then yeah, he shouldve seen it coming. If its one of the first quests they undertake, not so much. Also, there is a difference between killing a hooded stranger in the woods in self-defense, even if its a child, and outright murder, so all I say is you may cut him some slack, otherwise it may seem like you are out to make him fall on purpose. Make him take a hit to his alignment (from very lawful and very good to barely lawful and barely good, sort of) and maybe guilt trip him a bit, but removing class features might be a bit much. Unless he goes about it recklessly / carelessly.




I had spoken with each of them previously but none of them had been entirely sure. From what I gathered, he was previously the son of a rich merchant family who accidently overheard a nobleman's plot and was thus driven out of business. Lysandros was sent to Darragh, a port city, to be with extended family and eventually became a ship captain, but was caught smuggling and so lost his ship. Hence I was thinking of tying it into the smuggling, ie, have the Thieves Guild try and recruit him for another mission, only an informant was involved and so Lysandros is caught in the midst type deal...I don't want to give away too much, because it's largely an interactive origin story.

I still think him hating the kingdom for destituting him would be a good angle, but if not, he could perhaps be after the informant, who was rewarded by being put in charge of a larger unit or some other position of importance. Basically, dont give the joining as punishment, because they will not be as motivated to do well as if it was a personal quest type of thing. Maybe he wants to find dirt on the man who ruined his family, maybe wants to get his own troops backing him someday to see the other noble hang, maybe he wants to be the blunt edge of the kingdom's sword to keep others from going through what his family did, maybe he wants to be a double agent for the guild, tipping them off about the kingdom's activities, etc.




Again, some really great ideas. I had forgotten about the whole, "follow the money" type deal, and didn't think about the whole troops idea. I can definitely highlight his financial support of the troops early on in a kinda throwaway manner by having Krymenes use his own money to resupply the troops.

Yes, a lot of the nobles are in Krymenes' power. One of the reasons he wants to frame Lord Darragh is specifically because Lord Darragh is not, is generally a good man, and is lord of one of the largest cities and wealthiest cities in Etreia. He's a danger to Krymenes' plans, and as such, Krymenes' is trying to get rid of him. However, if I can sprinkle in one or two rumors of evil acts about the other nobles, and then have Darragh let them go due to information about a bribed trial...Krymenes' need not be mentioned and the Bigger Evil can be preserved while also giving them a couple of red herrings. Definitely some possibilities there. ^^

Good men can have bad friends. Old war comrades who fell to corruption, fellow nobles who are good neighbours and loving family men who also sacrifice children in their underground cellars, etc. If your hints point out to one of the corrupt nobles, maybe Lord Darragh comes to his defense? Not out of love for Krymenes or because he is corrupt, but because as far as he knows the fellow noble is incapable of doing such things? :D





Having the ritual of rebirth involve earlier quests is an interesting idea, at least as a starting point or destination along the way or surprise at the end(items they handed over earlier serving as a tool?). Etreia amongst the countries has a reputation of being arrogant and cruel, and it's citizens not well liked amongst the other lands. In addition, most of the creatures of magic have been pushed to the farthest corners of the world...I had a thought that to stop Krymenes, they would need to go beyond the lands of Etreia and deal with the hatred that being a citizen comes with, as well as discovering all the wonders that had long been pushed into myth in their own country, but still exist.

I do like the idea of the final step being of the PC's own doing...Especially if they have bad luck in messing with his plans up until that. If more bloodshed only helps, how do they stop his army of abominations? Or even more to the point, the actual killing of Krymenes could be the final straw, in which the god takes over his body.

Maybe take a page from Magic: The Gathering and their Thran? They were this super-ancient race with great magic and technology who had a corrupting manipulator in their midst, who rose to power through bio-engineering. But he had been exiled years before, and been experimenting and corrupting the other races and commiting atrocity after atrocity. In the end, the other races and the destitute non-Halcyon (the capital) cities join in an army to assault the Thran capital, which sets off Yawgmoth (the usurper) plan to move to his own plane where he can 'compleat`(turn everyone into living machines) the people of his nation. Krymenes could be acting in secret or through proxy against the other races; along their trips the PCs may uncover this and rally elves and dorfs and fairies under their banner; maybe the Wardens each lord over a race?

Maybe, just so your players dont feel it was all for nothing, the final catalyst is actually the death of a Warden. That way, while the ritual seems almost complete and thing are almost irreversibly changed, the final component is in their power. After they retrieved the needed items / weakened the opposing factions / made everything possible through their early career :D


Wow. Definitely some possibilities here...Certainly has my mind churning with plots and schemes. I really appreciate the new perspective and ideas, I was kinda at a loss at where to go from what I around had.

Sorry for writing walls of text, hope to be of service.