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Krazylec
2011-03-31, 04:26 PM
Hi everyone! I hope I am posting on the right subject for what I have in mind. As the title indicates, I am looking for people volunteering for proofreading.

To put things more accurately, I am part of a team elaborating a RPG named Shadows of Esteren, or rather Les Ombres d'Esteren in its original, French version. It is possible one of two among you have heard of it, in which case it is one hell of a coincidence... as well as something very flattering.

As for the game, in a nutshell, it is set in a medieval-horrific universe; something like a medieval Call of Cthulhu to give you some indication. No heroic-fantasy there, but medieval fantasy with a realistic setting, in a dark universe, in which man is constantly threatened, be it by nature, by hostile supernatural forces, or simply by all-too-human neighbors.

If you want to know more about it, I encourage you to check out the official website (http://www.esteren.org/) or the Myspace (http://www.myspace.com/esteren) page. Of course, it's in French, but you can still take a look at the illustrations, and listen to the Original Soundtrack.

Getting to the subject, I take part in this project as a French-->English translator of the Core Book, which went on sale a few months ago. The transcription in the tongue of Shakespeare is going smoothly, and it’s becoming more and more urgent to get to the following phase: proofreading.
And that’s where things go awry, since for now, we have no proofreaders to help us! Therefore, although the translation if still progressing, it will end up quickly meeting a dead end if we don’t find anyone to do a proper checking work on it.

We are in great need of English native readers, who would provide a tremendous support to the project. Of course, if you are proficient or even if you simply dabble in French, then, that would simply be perfect. If you feel like you would be able to give a constructive, knowledgeable opinion on the subject, do not hesitate to propose your contribution!
However, I want to be honest on the fact that such participation would remain voluntary. The society publishing Shadows of Esteren, Agate, is no Wizards of the Coast. Consequently, they cannot afford rewarding kind souls with anything but utmost gratitude.

Many thanks to you, be it only for paying attention to my little speech. I hope some of you will feel motivated by the project. In all sincerity, this game is really a great project, realized by very talented people, and the result is an amazing universe. Having the occasion to see it published in the United States (and even maybe elsewhere!) as we plan to do would truly be a dream come true, and I can personally say that such a perspective is wonderfully thrilling.

If you have any questions, be it about this recruitment or, more generally, about Shadows of Esteren, I will do my best to answer them!

Pyrite
2011-03-31, 04:32 PM
As a native English speaker with a bachelor's degree in English/Creative Writing, (and a lot of free time right now,) I'd be interested in being a part of this.

Without the chance for monetary compensation, is there any chance that proofreaders can at least get their names in the credits somewhere? That makes it a bit easier to justify putting it on one's resume, for instance.

TroubleBrewing
2011-03-31, 04:35 PM
Sure. I'm the son of two English professors. I'm currently working my way through a degree in English Literature, and I'd love to help out.

Krazylec
2011-03-31, 05:07 PM
Wow, not even ten minutes, and two answers already! I'm stunned.

However, I'd like to make it clear that participating the project will require some commitment. Of course, we will never be asking of you to be available for work 24/7, but we function on the principle of "Once you said you will be doing it, you do it.".
In other words, everyone is entirely free to choose what amount of proofreading he will undertake, but once that amount is agreed upon, everyone is expected to do his part.

Of course, seeing both of your answers, I'm certain you're ready to offer some serious participation, but I just want to keep you as informed as possible, so that you do not feel like you have been tricked later on :smallsmile:


Pyrite, I can't promise anything about the credits thing. What I can tell, however, is that in the Core Book, beta-testers all have their names in the credits section. Therefore, I would truly be astonished if proofreaders were not to be mentioned in the English version!


Anyway, as I have told, I am not directly in charge of the project as I simply am its translator. The management per se is undertaken by the person supervising me. I'll tell him about you right away, and as soon as I have his answer, I'll keep you informed.
Regarding how more exactly the organization of the proofreading will go, as far as I know, you'll be given a piece of text as a test, to check your skill and work ability. Normally, if you are as motivated as you seem to be, there should be no problem in making you part of the team!

Pisha
2011-03-31, 05:25 PM
*smiles* In high school and college, I earned a rep as the go-to girl for proofreading. The amount I take on may be limited by my schedule, but I'm a grammar nerd who finds such things fun, so I'd be thrilled to do at least a little bit!

firechicago
2011-03-31, 05:30 PM
I'm a native speaker with two years of experience as a full-time writer for a non-profit and more hours than I care to think about spent editing a self-published memoir for a family member. I also have a smattering of French (a couple years' instruction a decade ago, I remember about enough to read newspaper headlines or order off of a menu). I've been out of the writing game for a couple of years, but I'd love to help out. Send me a pm and I'll give you my e-mail address (the best way to contact me).

A couple questions:

Do you have a specific style guide in mind? Chicago is traditional for most books, though I'm more familiar with AP. Choosing one style guide and sticking to it usually helps keep things consistent across a large work.

Are you looking for proofreading or copy editing? The distinction is subtle, but proofreading generally involves looking for specific grammatical and spelling errors ("This comma is in the wrong place" or "That word is misspelled") while copy editing also involves reading for clarity, correctness and comprehension ("You've got the hero holding a gun in his right hand. but two pages ago you said he broke every bone in that hand when he punched the vampire" or "This sentence is grammatically correct, but I have no idea what you mean by it.")

Krazylec
2011-03-31, 06:23 PM
Pisha: Glad to see such enthusiasim! The more, the merrier, after all, and the most people we'll have for such a work, the better the final result will certainly be.
My supervisor has already been warned about the feedback I got (and of which I'm still amazed!), and I am now waiting for his answer. As soon as I get news, everyone will be informed of the next steps.

firechicago: Golly, I'm impressed! To be honest, I didn't even know if there would be people interested in participating in our modest (for now!) project, and seeing such positive answers is really wonderful and heartwarming. I'm all the more surprised by the fact that everybody seems really motivated and hardworking. Many thanks to you, as well as to everyone else!
As for your e-mail address, I'll wait for my boss' directions for now, but when I know how things will be supposed to go, I'll contact you.


The questions now:

To be honest, you took me by surprise with the matter of style guide, since as far as I know, such a notion doesn't exist in France. However, to give you an answer, there are mainly two types of writing in the Book:

- Regarding the presentation of the universe, it is mainly exposed in a narrative style: here it is a traveler telling about his experience; there it is a druid teaching an apprentice, or a scientist writing a treatise, etc.
Therefore, each chapter has a different tone to which the style adapts... and which the translation has to reflect, of course.

- As for the rules, it is obviously written in a much more objective way, with your regular "Doing this does this" and "Such attribute represents this" to which every roleplayer is familiar! No mystery there.

I hope I understood your question correctly and that you will find my answer satisying.


Concerning your distinction between proofreading and copy editing, that will be copy editing. Asking for native speakers for basic proofreading would be quite stupid as anyone with a good knowledge of grammar and a dictionary at hand could do it.
On the contrary, what we're looking for are people who would be able to give a clear and intelligent opinion about the translation, be it regarding grammatical correctness, idiomatic expressions, linguistic clarity, etc. Basically, the question is "What should be done to put it in a correct, clear and idiomatic English?"



I did my best to give you as much information as possible, but if you still have doubts or are simply not satisfied with my explanations, do not hesitate to ask for more!

Pyrite
2011-03-31, 10:03 PM
It might be a good idea to tell us how long the total document is (in pages or word count) and the minimum useful amount for any given person to proofread. (for instance, the length of a chapter, one piece of narrative, etc.)

Then people can more easily judge how much of their free time they can usefully give to the project.

Krazylec
2011-04-01, 11:21 AM
Fair enough. The book in itself is roughly 290 pages long, which approximately equals to the same quantity in terms of pages using Word.

As I said, you will have the choice regarding what amount of work you will undertake, but to give you an idea as you asked, a chapter is generally 8 pages long, with variations along the book of course. However, the longest chapter is 11 pages long and the shortest ones can be 5 pages long only.


By the way, I got the answer from my supervisor, and here is what he told me to remind you especially (sorry in advance for the lengthy text):

Esteren is a project created and imagined by a group of artists gathered under the name "Forgesonges" (Dreamforge). The goal of this association is to gather people who have a passion for fantasy and imaginary universes, and to create books, foremostly for enjoyment. For each of its members (about thirty today), it is not his actual job: Forgesonges is a passion. However, it remains that since its creation, Forgesonges signed contracts with four different publishers for four different roleplaying games.
No one expects to make a living out of it, but contracts are signed and authors perceive their part of the sales. As there are few RPGs sold, what is perceived is consequently low, but it remains an important, symbolic matter. With that frame of mind, one has to know that the publisher of Shadows of Esteren is a very small society consisting in two people who are also dedicated rolists. This publisher job is not their main job, far from it. It is also a passion and a mean for publishing books.

In a project such as Shadows of Esteren, everyone brings his contribution to the whole project, and that is what we hold dear: that is how the original soundtrack was able to exist (check the Myspace); that is how today, we plan to make this translation. Artists are under contract, but proofreaders have always volunteered, the same way as those insuring the artistic direction of the project or its publishing direction.

However, we try to make everyone's work important. Some proofreaders have today taken a more important place in the project. It depends on many factors: how people get along, motivation, everyone's desires and ideas. Concretely, proofreaders will have their name in the credits, and will receive a copy of the book they will have worked on.


Going on, I have been told that a number of 4 translators will be sufficient. With Pyrite, Grey McBannert, Pisha and firechicago, I think we're settled. However, before every one of you accepts to be part of the project more definitely, I really want to stress that we expect you to be dedicated to the project. Not to work your asses off, of course, but to remain true to your promises.

The last thing we want is to see the whole thing jeopardized because of underestimated work from people participating the project. The realization of Shadows of Esteren has always worked that way, and I hope it will be able to go on in the same fashion.

Therefore, think it over well before giving confirmation for your participation!


As for the methodology, as I said, each one of the proofreaders-to-be will be given a piece of text (taken from the book) as a test, and will have to read and comment it to give his opinion about it. This will enable us to check your skills and dedication.

Concerning how we work, we use the "Commentary" function of word (Like this (http://www.papercheck.com/images/2007_word_track_changes_editor_comments_highlight. png)) to properly keep track of the remarks and changes that will be brought along the readings and correctings. Every correction from the proofreader has to appear on the document under the form of a comment, to be validated (or refused) by the project's coordinators.



Aaaand that's it! Sorry if there are mistakes or awkward expressions, I admit I kinda wrote this in a rush!

Lady and gentlemen, I now leave you with those detailed explanations, and expect your answers!

Pisha
2011-04-01, 01:31 PM
I'm in. Do you need us to send our email address or other contact info to you?

Pyrite
2011-04-01, 02:10 PM
Yeah, this sounds more and more like something I want to be a part of. Count me in as well. I'm actually pretty eager to start.

Tyndmyr
2011-04-01, 03:25 PM
As a native English speaker with a bachelor's degree in English/Creative Writing, (and a lot of free time right now,) I'd be interested in being a part of this.

Without the chance for monetary compensation, is there any chance that proofreaders can at least get their names in the credits somewhere? That makes it a bit easier to justify putting it on one's resume, for instance.

I am of no use so far as French is concerned, but my English is generally fairly good. I also greatly enjoy reading through RPG materials. I'd be interested in helping out if credit is given, certainly.

Krazylec
2011-04-04, 11:44 AM
Pisha: An email address you check regularly would indeed be the simplest and most efficient way to keep contact with you. Just send me yours in a pm, and I think we'll be settled to go on.

Pyrite: Delighted to see you so fired up! I got your pm containing your email address, and I'll transmit it to my supervisor right away so that the whole thing may progress as swiftly as possible.

Tyndmyr: Thank you very much for your proposition, but as I said earlier, I think we'll be good with four volunteers. Moreover, we'll also have two French proofreaders (one of whom is an English native speaker), so that's well enough!
However, if we ever need one more participant, as in the case Grey McBannert wouldn't give us news, for example, I'll be sure to come back to you!


Once more, thank you all for your high spirits. If the proofreading goes as well as it seems ready to, we'll certainly be done in no time! I hope there won't be any perturbations to impede this beautiful project you'll be taking part of.

And by the way, my apologies for taking so much time to answer; busy week-end!

Science Officer
2011-04-04, 06:32 PM
:smallfrown:
No more volunteers needed? Not for translating or proofreading? Ah, well.


But this looks really neat, when/how might I be able to find a finished product (in English or French)?

Krazylec
2011-04-05, 11:28 AM
News for everyone!

First, in the end, we'll be recruiting a fifth proofreader, the total team amounting to ten members in the end. Therefore, half of them will be from the OOTS forum, whereas the other half, which is already recruited, will be from various sources (friends, collaborators, etc).

Second, I'll be seeing my supervisor on April 13th to talk with him in person about the various participants, how they will work, how the project will be organized, etc. Once that will be done, each of you will receive more precise instructions regarding what will be expected of you.
Until then, I shouldn't have much to tell you about, but stay tuned nevertheless! Also, as usual, if there is anything you want to ask, I'll answer your questions as quickly and clearly as possible.


Science Officer (and also Tyndmyr to some extent): Since the number of people recruited has gone from four to five, one additional person will be chosen among the volunteers. If one of you is still ready to offer his contribution, he's more than welcome!

Also, I still didn't get Pisha and Grey McBannert's answer regarding their participation. If one of them doesn't answer by April 10th, I guess the seat will be free for one more person!

Regarding the finished product, I know you can find it, as well as other books from the same universe on Amazon (http://www.amazon.fr/Ombres-dEsteren-Livre-Univers/dp/2919256009), although it only exists in French of course... for now at least! When the translation process will be over and you can buy it in English, I'll be sure to make an announcement on the forum.

Krazylec
2011-04-12, 11:50 AM
Dusting off the topic!

In the end, only Pisha answered to the PMs I sent, which leaves us with 4 proofreaders: Pyrite, Pisha, firechicago and Science Officer.

People from the forum, if you are interested in giving your contribution and feel ready to show some commitment to the project, do not hesitate and drop a word here, we'll welcome you gladly!

As I said, tomorrow will be the day when the volunteers' task will be defined more accurately, so now is still the best time for joining in.

UserClone
2011-04-12, 12:20 PM
I'd LOVE to proofread for you. Proofreading is my favorite! :smallbiggrin:

No seriously, I have a thing about correcting grammar, spelling, and punctuation, as well as an eye for sentence structure. Concise language and finding better ways to make a passage flow well aesthetically while still making sense are also strong points of mine.

In any case, I'd be glad to help!:smallsmile:

Out of curiousity, would our names be in the English translation credits?

Also, out of curiousity, would it be possible to be rewarded with a copy of the game for our efforts? Had to be asked.:smallwink:

Krazylec
2011-04-12, 02:39 PM
Then, you'll have the occasion to do exactly these things! After all, we are looking for skillful people, but also and foremostly for motivated ones, and since you seem to have both of these qualities, that's all for the best!

However, before accepting for good, have a good read of this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10680753&postcount=9), in which more details about the project are given. Moreover, it will also give you the answers to your questions regarding being in the credits and getting a copy of the book.

After that, if you are still certain that you will be able to participate the whole proofreading process in the long run, then you're welcome to join us!
I know I may seem a tad finicky about the whole thing, but that's because we want to be certain that the work will go smoothly, and that we will not end up with a sluggish and inefficient progress of the translation.

Tyndmyr
2011-04-12, 02:53 PM
Yeah, I'm still up for it if you want. As mentioned before, I'm English only, but I have a solid command of the language.

Krazylec
2011-04-12, 03:03 PM
Hmm... since you had proposed first Tyndmyr, I guess the fairer thing to do would be to make you the aforementioned fifth member. If you are certain to be ready, just give me an e-mail address you check frequently, and that will do for communication!

However, UserClone, if you really want to be part of the proofreading team, I will see with my supervisor if adding a sixth person to the process would be possible.

UserClone
2011-04-12, 05:17 PM
Please do. I'd be pretty crushed if you put the offer on the table and then snatched it up after I got the chance to read more about it and want the job even more...:smallfrown:

UserClone
2011-04-12, 10:45 PM
PM'd my email. Just in case...

Swordblade
2011-04-13, 08:59 AM
Hello there!

I'm sorry I'm so late in getting to this thread. I've been away for a little while recently and only just got back online.

I really hope I'm not too late to be involved in this as I'm absolutely in love with proofreading. I also believe I've got some very valuable skills to bring to the table:

- My current job is to create, edit and proofread English-language subtitles for major broadcasters
- I have previously worked as a proofreader for a newspaper as well as for university student theses
- I have a First Class Honours Degree in Japanese and French from Cardiff University and have previously lived in France.
- My last job was as a translator into English meaning I am very familiar with the type of editing needed to perfect translations

So, yeah, I really hope I'm not too late. I'd love to be involved in however small a way. Language is my lifeblood and working with it is my passion, especially when it involves geekiness too!

I'll PM you my email address just in case you can find room for me!

JBento
2011-04-13, 10:38 AM
Missing opportunities like these is what I get for being away from the forums. You're probably all full by now, but, just in case you're not... :smallwink:

I'm not a native english speaker (my native language is Portuguese) but I'm quite proficient with it - I read novel after novel in it's original English, and I'm also the go-to person here in the lab that proofreads my friend's papers and reviews.

So, if you've still got a slot...

(I also took 2 years of French in school, but I'm sure I've forgotten most of it)

EDIT: On second thought, I'll PM you my email as well - that way, you can keep my contact on file for either this or other similar projects :smallsmile:

Krazylec
2011-04-13, 04:42 PM
Alas (poor Yorrick?), I must regretfully draw the curtain on this little recruitment process, and announce that we are no longer in need of volunteers!
Swordblade, JBento, thank you a lot for your motivated offers, but unfortunately, we already have the six proofreaders we were looking for.

And yes, UserClone, that indeed means that you'll be part of the project as well. Welcome aboard! :smallwink:
Everyone, expect to quickly receive an email regarding the next steps of the whole procedure.

As for the two unlucky latecomers, do not lose hope! Maybe one or more members of our current proofreading team will drop out in the end, because of time, motivation or something else... although I sincerely hope not! But it remains that if a spot should become free, I'll naturally come back to you so that you may become part of the project.
Moreover, the Core Book will obviously not be the only opus of the Estern series that will be translated, and I am sure that you will have the occasion to do some great work sometime in the future.

Last thing, which is somewhat linked to what I just said: although I am currently the only translator for Shadows of Esteren, we are looking for other members. Therefore, if you or someone you know would have the skills required to do translations from French to English, make yourself known!
However, this is of course something on a whole other level than proofreading, as it would imply taking the burden of a whole book, and transcribing it from one end to another. It requires a good, if not excellent, command of both of the languages, and would be quite time-consuming, so only apply if you feel confident in your abilities!


And with this lengthy message, I guess this topic will stay idle for a while. Still, I'll make sure to post back here every now and then to keep you informed about the project's evolution, should you be interested in Shadows of Esteren. Likewise, if there is anything you'd like to know about the RPG, feel free to ask me about, I will do my best to give you complete and clear answers.

Many thanks to everyone for your enthusiasm, and stay tuned!

Krazylec
2011-10-19, 05:38 PM
Ahoy everyone!

Yes, it's me again, and to start with, I have some good news (or uninteresting ones, depending on your point of view): the project is coming along nicely, and we expect that by spring or, at most, summer 2012, the English version of Shadows of Esteren will be released in the United States.
We fervently wish that all of the work we are putting in the realization of this translation will pay off through the enjoyment all English-speaking roleplayers will hopefully get to feel in playing this nicely unique game.


However, for now, it is still a work in progress, and that is the main reason that I am coming back to you, o good OOTSesque people!

You see, so far, only half a dozen copy editors were needed since I was the only translator of the project. But since a few weeks ago, I have a colleague, a very nice and hard-working person who is currently in charge of another product of the Shadows of Esteren series, and because we obviously cannot ask much more from our current proofreaders, we are in need of new volunteers!

As I have previously mentioned, you will be in charge of reading freshly translated chapters and point out everything that is orthographically, grammatically or idiomatically wrong. Note that this is about correcting mistakes and making the text as clean and clear as possible; not to remake the background of the game, as such things are already set!

Also, this will have to be an unpaid job, and the only thing we'll be able to pay good souls with is a free copy of the book they will have been working on, with their name in the credits, of course. But if you feel like this would be a good experience for you and/or if you simply feel like helping a neat RPG project see the light, I encourage you to apply.

I sincerely believe that this can be very fulfilling: everyone involved in this project is passionate about what he/she is doing, and honestly, we are all taking part in it because we want to release a kickass RPG, not to get rich.


Should you be interested, apply here, and I will make sure to reply on very short notice! Likewise, if you have any questions about our project, it will be my pleasure to answer them.

Once more, thank you for your attention. If you feel like you have the necessary linguistic skills and the motivation to be part of the elaboration of Shadows of Esteren, don't hesitate! We'll welcome your help with open arms. No professionnal experience required; just a good mastery of the English language, a sharp mind and a good dose of team spirit!

Krazylec
2011-12-19, 10:21 AM
One more time!

First, my apologies for the triple posting. Although I hope that I'm not being too much of a disturbance; you'll understand that it's the only way I can transmit some information about the progression of the translation of Shadows of Esteren.

And I’m proud to say we're still doing rather well! Actually, the translation of two of the series' books (The "Core" one and a "Prologue" one) is almost over!

However, we still need to go through the proofreading process, and unfortunately, we're lacking volunteers for that: most of the members of our current team have quite a busy life, so they cannot afford to participate as much as they used to.
And once, more, that's the main reason I'm addressing you: we need native English speakers to proofread the translation of chapters from the Prologue book of Shadows of Esteren.

Currently, our goal is to release it in time for the GAMA Trade Show (GTS), in March 2012, but if we don't get support from motivated people, we unfortunately won't be able to make it. Managing to carry out such a release would truly be a tremendous step forward in the distribution of our RPG, as well as a very fulfilling accomplishment. Only one or two of you could truly make the difference.

I swear, Shadows of Esteren is a great game, imagined, conceived, written, illustrated and translated by talented, passionate people, whose first ambition is to share a kickass roleplaying game with the rest of the world, not to make money. I am personally acquainted with the head of the project, and played the game myself; you can trust me when I sincerely say that this game deserves to be known.

Should you be interested in working with us, please reply on this thread, or send me a Private Message directly; I'll make sure to answer you quickly. Currently, none of the proofreaders of our team came to regret being a part of the elaboration of Shadows of Esteren, and we would be glad to welcome more spirited people among us.


And of course, if you simply have questions about Shadows of Esteren, don't hesitate: ask away!

Krazylec
2012-01-10, 11:37 AM
Once more, hello everyone!

I'm glad to inform you that several other volunteers have joined the project, on which we are all working with more vigor than ever! The translation of the Core Book, but also the "Prologue" one I mentioned in my previous message are now nearing completion, and our current team (I may even say our current teams) are progressively working on them, making the completion of these two books a truly concrete perspective! Shadows of Esteren will be released in English by this year, and I'll make sure to keep you informed, should you be interested in our RPG.

However, Shadows of Esteren remains something big, or at least, we want it to be something big, and for this reason, we're always appreciative of all the help we can get! For this reason, don't hesitate if you want to know more about the game, and don't be shy: do apply if you feel like you've got what it takes to do a proper copy editing work. Just think about it: some day, you may be able to proudly think about the beautiful RPG you've been a part of.

I hope other people among you will feel like joining us! As I said, it's always a pleasure to have more enthusiasts among us.