Why I hated District 9/ Avatar [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 04:39 PM

I hated it because of the rehashed storyline. I didn't mean STORY. But the Storyline itself. All the events are nearly identical and overall all the creative changes that could effect the story in any meaningfull ways are brushed aside to hammer in the same message OVER AND OVER AGAIN!

Im not here to argue plot nitpicks or story parts. But I am here to argue that both stories are willing to resort to dirty tricks in order to hammer in their message.

In Avatar it was Done by simplifying all the possible elements until it was even comically Perfect. Humans VS Perfect Race. Im not going to go into nitpicks about how I thought the whole scenario was unfair. But I am going to say that it created an extremely one sided environment purely for hammering in "HUMANS ARE RACISTS" for the bajilionth time.

In District 9 It was done by tossing out common sense in all of the humans. I don't care if they couldnt get whatever to talk, bla bla bla. Im saying that the humans would swarm over the mothership for Centuries to come figuring it out. The Shrimps (Or whatever) would be treated catiosly. For all they know an Armada could be coming....Or even watching them right now. It dumps this into the Trash and burns all common sense in favor of Hammering the message in for the 76585865865856876586586586443532525321 time. How about something original? Like the Humans Conqouring the Tech TOO well? Or about both sides of the human coin?

Now why I liked "How to Train your Dragon". Very similar plot, different storyline:

There is alot of motivation for both Sides. The Dragons aren't inheritently evil. They are just bossed around. And the Humans have a very logical reason for hating the Dragons. THIER STEELING THIER STUFF! Both sides refused to cooperate, resulting in suffering on both sides. It was promoting peace, and how conflict can make us blind even to our own friends. The Dragons wherent automatically portrayed as superior. They had benefits on both sides. The Movie ended with Both sides working together for a brighter Future (Cough Star Treck Cough)

So I hope you get my side. And understand where im coming from.

Jahkaivah

2011-03-31, 04:48 PM

Yeah that was something I liked about How To Train Your Dragon over the other two.

Though I found it funny that the solution of "we don't have to kill dragons" involve killing a really big dragon.

Moff Chumley

2011-03-31, 05:37 PM

Kato

2011-03-31, 05:46 PM

I'll agree with Moff Chumley, overall.
Yeah, D9 had it's weak points like really a lack of a pro-alien organization (at least we don't get to see such) but e.g. the mother ship was around for 20 years. And they obviously tried to conquer the tech but apparently it was all DNA coded and they couldn't reverse engineer it for some reason. Why waste more time on the mothership? Though, I guess the could have kept some security there. As I said, it has it's weak points but really, overall it's a nice idea.

But it's not like the story has been done to death, as Avatar did. It's specism instead of racism and even if racism is an old plot I like the new POV on it.

What turned me off more was why they had to change to splatter and gore towards the end. Stick with one genre, guys.

toasty

2011-03-31, 05:47 PM

District 9 was a terrific movie, if you ask me. Some of the humans we saw, and most of the ones in charge, acted in a manner that came off as unintelligent to us. Guess what? Governments, especially ones as corrupt as the one portrayed in the movie, upon being confronted with problems they've never dealt with before, don't have the perfect solutions or even good ones, to almost anything. Besides, the viewer has no idea how much research or effort went in to investigating the aliens, so it's rather unfair to assume that there was none. :smallsigh:

In fact, given the shennigans that I've seen certain governments get away with, its really perfectly reasonable for them to act like idiots so long as they do a decent job of covering their tracks and the general public doesn't really care about what they're doing.

Coidzor

2011-03-31, 05:51 PM

In Avatar it was Done by simplifying all the possible elements until it was even comically Perfect. Humans VS Perfect Race. Im not going to go into nitpicks about how I thought the whole scenario was unfair. But I am going to say that it created an extremely one sided environment purely for hammering in "HUMANS ARE RACISTS" for the bajilionth time.

It's even worse. Consider the human demographics we were shown in the movie.

averagejoe

2011-03-31, 05:52 PM

The main thing I didn't like about District Nine was that that year two movies named, "Nine," came out. It just bugs me.

More seriously, it was an okay movie, and the beginning was fun, different, and creative, but they made things way too easy. The government was way too obviously evil. It should have been one of those things where it was a situation that just kind of got out of control without being anybody's fault. There were elements of that, and those were realistic and satisfying, but, i.e. evil bug killing military science facility made things far too easy in terms of the situations the main characters found themselves in.

It's one of those movies that's not really bad, but is just kind of cursed with, "It would have been better if," syndrome.

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 05:59 PM

Again I need to mention: 20 years....Some people join cults in the hope of finding aliens. 20 ****ING YEARS! WASTE MORE TIME? HELLOOOOOOOO! A FLYING HUGE SHIP!

COLONIZATION
RECOURSE TRANSFER
ALIENS
LAZERS
ROBOT MECHS!

But after 20 years of seeing this glass box filled with gold, jewels, and jetpacks we abandon it to seek out something else. That makes no sense!

Its how the world just FORGOT!

The plot exists only to hammer in a point already told. Nobody can not convince me of this.

Edit:

This isnt MCDonalds Trying to deny the faulty meat. This is aliens. Anything is now possible! Maybe even time travel! Its not something you just forget!

The Plots are all just too convenient.

Moff Chumley

2011-03-31, 06:03 PM

If you're not going to be convinced otherwise, then why bother posting? The entire point of forums in general is to have a discussion, and if you're going to reject other people's points out of hand, then why even bother posting?

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 06:05 PM

Eldan

2011-03-31, 06:05 PM

thompur

2011-03-31, 06:07 PM

Coidzor

2011-03-31, 06:11 PM

Of course it was evil. It was Apparteid South Africa!

I think that's part of the problem that the film had, actually, aliens being dealt with any government other than the U.S. or an international body would tend to strain the credibility of a fair part of the main U.S. audience.

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 06:11 PM

Where did you get the idea from that there was no studying? There was a huge research facility right next to it. They were extensively trying to reverse-engineer, and apparently had a few projects already.

Entering Nitpick Zone.

Im not talking about the few research labs or such. Just that Everything would have cameras pointing at them every second. People would screem "The Armada is Coming!" at the aliens. It would demand thier deaths, others would demand thier praiser as gods. Governmental would be shattered by people ALL flocking towards the new creatures. Some would fear, others would rejoice. But this will be a lasting, permanent thing. It would be constantly surrounded by millions of people confused for the first time in thier lives about the correct thing to do. Do we kill them? Do we kill ourselfs?

They wouldnt be the trend of the 2000s (Hey remember when aliens where in style? Yeah, that was silly). This would cause WARS!

Eldan

2011-03-31, 06:13 PM

Arcanoi

2011-03-31, 06:16 PM

People would screem "The Armada is Coming!" at the aliens. It would demand thier deaths, others would demand thier praiser as gods.

Governmental would be shattered by people ALL flocking towards the new creatures. Some would fear, others would rejoice. But this will be a lasting, permanent thing. It would be constantly surrounded by millions of people confused for the first time in thier lives about the correct thing to do. Do we kill them? Do we kill ourselfs?

People aren't quite that stupid. Naturally, there would be extremist elements that would have all sorts of ridiculous reactions, but by and large, more 'rational' options (Like concentration camps) would be exercised.

VanBuren

2011-03-31, 06:18 PM

Do we kill them? Do we kill ourselfs?

You're right. Large swaths of the human population committing mass suicides is far more reasonable and believable than the movie.

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 06:18 PM

And most likely, this all happened. We are now 20 years later, and things have settled down. I mean, obviously they haven't killed all the aliens. But the aliens are kinda dull, pretty stupid and not all that dangerous. Full-time surveillance is expensive, and they don't really seem to be doing anything. THey did set an a, probably international, organization.

Im arguing that it WOULDN'T! 20 years is barely enough time for the next generation of people. It will never be the same.

This isnt a new found secret plant. These are a New species:

With a Huge war ship
With Lazers
With a Biology unlike any other on earth
This stuff doesnt settle down until....Never.
Kill the aliens? People fear repraisal.

Until all the tech was completly uncovered, cracked and within our pockets the world would turn its billion eyes onto one spaceship.

Im not going into details, because the outcome is the same:

Our Racist Race Sucks. We Treat others like crap.

it feals very preachy yet is given a free pass? Why? The characters are not believable until I pretend this is "Magic, forget after a decade" land. Then it becomes boring because I dont care.

Revlid

2011-03-31, 06:29 PM

Im arguing that it WOULDN'T! 20 years is barely enough time for the next generation of people. It will never be the same.You are wrong.

If District 9 was set today, the ship would have appeared about a year before I was born. My earliest childhood would have included the fact that prawn-locust-aliens existed and were in Africa, along with lions and giraffes. It wouldn't have much of an impact on me.

The main impacts would have been religious (an aspect we didn't see) and technological (an aspect that was discussed and shown to be impossible to integrate).

Seriously. How long did it take most news stations to get tired of the Iraq War? Of the Kennedy Assassinations? Of 9/11? Of the Boxing Day Tsunami? Of Obama's election? Of the Berlin Wall coming down? After 20 years we would not give a **** except as another thing to donate to/blog about/protest.

I love how, in a previous post, you went from "aliens exist" to "time travel is possible"! You're being far too alarmist.

AtlanteanTroll

2011-03-31, 06:32 PM

Our Racist Race Sucks. We Treat others like crap.

it feals very preachy yet is given a free pass? Why?

It's true, for one thing.

Seriously. How long did it take most news stations to get tired of the Iraq War? Of the Kennedy Assassinations? Of 9/11? Of the Boxing Day Tsunami? Of Obama's election? Of the Berlin Wall coming down? After 20 years we would not give a **** except as another thing to donate to/blog about/protest.

What you watching, cause except for the bolded, I'm still hearing about them.

Sarco_Phage

2011-03-31, 06:34 PM

D9 = metaphor for apartheid.

Setting it in South Africa was, however, remarkably heavy handed.

I liked how it averted the standard ALIENS IN NEW YORK thing.

Avatar, meanwhile, was so-so.

KillianHawkeye

2011-03-31, 06:36 PM

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 06:39 PM

I love how, in a previous post, you went from "aliens exist" to "time travel is possible"! You're being far too alarmist.

Anti Gravity Devices exist. Tractor beams exist.

This is something Completely out of the ordinary. Never in human history has something even possible in our realm of reality that we could even imagine like this. Happened. This is something 100% new. Out of the blue. We have never encountered anything like this before. The Possible death of a President? Yeah thats possible. The Possibility of Anti Grav, aliens, and Lazors? We have NEVER experienced that before, In all the millions of years on earth.

But Screw it. Your not listening. Im saying that this plot was created out of convenience in hope of manipulating (Not genuin care or interest) but manipulation of the Audience by showing this one sided (The little blip at the begining doesnt count) effect, (of a potentialy WORLD SHAKING thing to happen) to tell the same story over again. A Tsunami happened before. So did the Murder of a Political leader.

Sarco_Phage

2011-03-31, 06:40 PM

It's called storytellin' bro, and it's awesome.

We're all about manipulation.

VanBuren

2011-03-31, 06:43 PM

But Screw it. Your not listening.

And neither are you. That is precisely the problem.

TheArsenal

2011-03-31, 06:45 PM

There is a difference between manipulation, and that realness thing.

The world isnt black or white. When a story presents itself as white or black purely to connect to more people to get more money, thats manipulation.

When a Story is Portrayed as Grey and every action has a counter action and argument then that genuine. Because thats how real stuff happens.

I guess that I dont like Pochahontas stories that don't even try to change other than simply changing the location. Maybe its just me.

Edit:

Each person is screwing each other and only sees what they want to see. Then telling the other side that they are not listening.

Sarco_Phage

2011-03-31, 06:46 PM

Well, that's the current economic model for you.

Me, I like the current economic model. It makes me money. Woo, manipulation!

LOTRfan

2011-03-31, 07:05 PM

Personally, I thought District 9 was a really great movie, because it was a metaphor for apartheid and the horrors it entailed. But enough of that, lest the mods start scrubbing.

Avatar was meh. It became even worse when my autistic cousin thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, and decided to make watching it a daily event...

Back on topic, though, I do think that twenty years is enough for the "excitement" to calm down. People were experimenting with the technology, and there were crazy cultist guys running around, but not in any extreme numbers. I fail to see any lack of realism at all (and, as KillianHawkeye said, we won't even know if that is a realistic reaction until aliens actually start showing up, a statistically unlikely event).

And neither are you. That is precisely the problem.

Unfortunately, I tend to agree with VanBuren, here.

Coidzor

2011-03-31, 07:06 PM

It's true, for one thing.

No, it's an opinion.

Soras Teva Gee

2011-03-31, 07:13 PM

What you watching, cause except for the bolded, I'm still hearing about them.

You might hear about them occasionally, but more likely on some History Channel hour-killer program about it. Sure every history book you pick up will have some side bar about it... but its history now and people notoriously do not really care about history.

A form ofNohamotyo (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Nohamotyo) really.

For extra cynical sauce look at that list again and notice which one didn't happen in the First World or Middle East? Noting for even more cynicism that District 9 happens in another such place.

Jahkaivah

2011-03-31, 08:25 PM

The fact of the matter is that we don't actually know what kind of a reaction the world would have to a huge spaceship, because there's never been any huge spaceships. So you say that the movie reaction was unrealistic, but you don't actually know that for sure.

We can however look towards history for some insight, namely when civilisations recieve unusual visitors from strange unknown lands and they sometimes welcome the guests being the most interesting thing to have happened to them in some while.

To be fair District 9 tried to set the stage a bit what with the the aliens not being self sufficient and being a large enough colony so that supporting them would require some siginificant effort.

But the handling of the matter seemed off, it would have been seen as a global deal, with every major government taking an interest and giving support. Things would have been very diplomatically intensive as there would have been great interest in this strange new culture, for example how is it that there was seemingly no official term coined for the aliens after 20 years? The film seemed to just ignore the whole context in order to maintain the political analogy.

Don't get me wrong though, I still liked it, Wikus was a great character, he and Christopher was an awesome duo.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll

2011-03-31, 08:46 PM

I thought it was very close to what would happen in real life. Think about a world-changing event that happened about 20 years ago: The disintegration of the Soviet Union. Berlin Wall, all that jazz. That was 20 years ago. It was HUGE, especially in the US. The Iron Curtain was done, the Cold War was over. HUGE.

People got over it. It no longer is in the forefront of the minds of people across the world, only in people directly where it happened.

This is what we see in the movie. 20 years after the event, the only people still intensively worried about the aliens are the people where the aliens are.

As for the pro-aliens groups, we DO see those, we see people protesting MNU, who are, we must remember, NOT the government, but are mercenaries under government pay.

But the focus is on Wikus. We see Wikus' horror when he realizes what MNU was doing. You see his friend, who looked up on things afterwards, his reactions. They're all negative. Sure, the MNU brass are 'evil', and probably a few of the other dudes, but on the whole, the people at MNU are faceless, because this is, in the end, an action movie.

A movie with limited scope. They had to choose only a FEW aspects to work on, otherwise it would have failed as a movie. So they chose to ignore the immediate repercussions, and focused on the '20 years after' situation.

AtlanteanTroll

2011-03-31, 10:09 PM

For extra cynical sauce look at that list again and notice which one didn't happen in the First World or Middle East? Noting for even more cynicism that District 9 happens in another such place.

Eh, we got the Apartheid brought up on multiple occasions during English 9. Not to mention Geography.

Coidzor: You're joking. Most people are horrible. Myself included. No one ever wants to see a Cynic win, that's the problem.

warty goblin

2011-03-31, 10:24 PM

A point: After a decade or so of nearly complete failure, there's going to be a lot less public excitement about anything, and most people will simply go back to their lives. The fact that an alien several time zones away from me possesses a lightning gun stops being a particularly gripping fact a few years in after all but the dingbats of the world have figured out nobody over here's getting fried anytime soon. The excitement right after they arrived would be freakish high to be sure, but in three years how are you going to get exciting headlines about alien technology? Scientists fail again?

Yeah, probably not going to bump Britney off of the front pages anytime soon.

And pretty clearly there was still a lot of research going on, after all the humans were trying to develop a human/alien hybrid that could use the technology. I'm fairly sure that sort of work doesn't get done overnight. But most people, being people, go back to not caring about stuff that doesn't effect them.

Jahkaivah

2011-03-31, 10:25 PM

AtlanteanTroll

2011-03-31, 10:28 PM

Not nearly as huge as first contact though, I would say there isn't a single real world event that could be as big as that.
Someone could drop another Nuke somewhere.

Sarco_Phage

2011-03-31, 10:30 PM

Not nearly as huge as first contact though, I would say there isn't a single real world event that could be as big as that.

Well, that's a fairly idealistic view to take, I guess. I'm with the others who believe that even first contact, in the state that District 9 presents, would become pretty much background noise in a few years.

averagejoe

2011-03-31, 10:36 PM

The Mod They Call Me: Okay, some people are really toeing the politics line. It's easy given the movie that it is, but watch yourselves.

Coidzor

2011-03-31, 10:55 PM

Coidzor: You're joking. Most people are horrible. Myself included. No one ever wants to see a Cynic win, that's the problem.

Well, for one thing, you just corrected your statement from discussing all humans to most humans.

For another, it's not possible to verify the truth of the matter one way or the other, so we only have anecdotes, conjecture, and opinion to go on.

So, no, I was not joking, nor am I now, I mostly just took issue with your statement of something as an absolute truth that was actually an opinion.

VanBuren

2011-03-31, 11:10 PM

Well, for one thing, you just corrected your statement from discussing all humans to most humans.

For another, it's not possible to verify the truth of the matter one way or the other, so we only have anecdotes, conjecture, and opinion to go on.

So, no, I was not joking, nor am I now, I mostly just took issue with your statement of something as an absolute truth that was actually an opinion.

As a point in your favor, it's been shown that in a disaster situation, altruistic and cooperative traits rise to the surface. Off the top of my head, I remember reading of at least one social scientist who was specifically looking for evidence that people are, for the most part, bastards in such situations--and then being forced to conclude the opposite.

Cynicism is so boring, anyway. Now skepticism, that's where the party's at.

chiasaur11

2011-03-31, 11:29 PM

Yeah.

People can be saints and sinners, heroes and slime. Often the same people depending on circumstances.

Pure cynicism doesn't cover Fred Rogers very well, f'rinstance.

And pure idealism doesn't cover Hitler.

World's a complicated place. And, to its credit, District 9 noticed that. Good movie.

The_JJ

2011-03-31, 11:37 PM

Setting it in South Africa was, however, remarkably heavy handed.

Dude was South African. What do you want?

Arcanoi

2011-03-31, 11:54 PM

Dude was South African. What do you want?

Muffins. Thousands of them.

The_JJ

2011-04-01, 12:07 AM

Muffins. Thousands of them.

Thousands? That's kinda a lot. Would you settle for 100 muffins? I'll throw in the muffintop for free.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 12:09 AM

Dude was South African. What do you want?

I want a sequel. I want to see Christopher, the messiah figure, return, surfing a battleship down from orbit like an insectile Douglas MacArthur, swinging an oversized pipe like a golf club.

Zexion

2011-04-01, 12:24 AM

Anti Gravity Devices exist. Tractor beams exist.

No they don't. :smallsmile:

Moff Chumley

2011-04-01, 12:33 AM

I want a sequel. I want to see Christopher, the messiah figure, return, surfing a battleship down from orbit like an insectile Douglas MacArthur, swinging an oversized pipe like a golf club.

This is Chumley and I approve of this message.

Amiel

2011-04-01, 12:43 AM

Though I found it funny that the solution of "we don't have to kill dragons" involve killing a really big dragon.

Logic and internal consistency does not exist in movies :smalltongue:

Goosefeather

2011-04-01, 01:28 AM

Anti Gravity Devices exist. Tractor beams exist.

This is something Completely out of the ordinary. Never in human history has something even possible in our realm of reality that we could even imagine like this. Happened. This is something 100% new. Out of the blue. We have never encountered anything like this before. The Possible death of a President? Yeah thats possible. The Possibility of Anti Grav, aliens, and Lazors? We have NEVER experienced that before, In all the millions of years on earth.

Eh, a couple of hundred years ago something like videotape technology would have seemed absolutely amazing, yet to the most recent generations of human beings, video is a best a somewhat obsolete technology, boring and outmoded.

What I'm saying is, it's easy for one generation's crazy sci-fi technology to be completely mundane to the generation which actually grows up with it.

To quote Terry Pratchett,

Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders they have managed to invent boredom? Quite astonishing...

Tavar

2011-04-01, 01:59 AM

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 02:25 AM

Alright I re-read my points and before I explain all my points again I just want you to think into this a little. Comparing a discovery of potentially future changing tech is incomparable to any other happening on earth. Nothing. Because they are either possible events OR happened gradually. This is sudden and spuratic. A cash of futuristic lazer weaponry, and rocket ships was never suddenly discovered in a desert before. So where aliens.

Now This Is what I think should have happened:

For the First 5 Years the Aliens are the ONLY priority. Chaos is in the streets (And not the minor chaos like in the Interviews and stuff). Countries are competing for the right to control the aliens and the surrounding area. Cults are popping up, people are going insane.

After 5 years thing are still very heavily chaotic but beginning to get organized. Alot of alien study is happening, and public opinion is still fearful, but not insane. All countries now have a sector for aliens and space travel. The spaceship is now regulated by one country. Basic alien contact is conducted.

Then for a Decade after: The aliens now can fully communicate with humans that use translators and stuff. The Aliens are no longer the only priority. But they still are the first level. Most of the Worlds resources are put into trying to reverse engineer the tech. The Ship in now surrounded by a huge research lab. The aliens live in sterile, but not bad conditions, population levels carefully monitored, even partially controlled.

The World can no longer rest assured that they are the only fish in the Pond. It can no longer take its sweet time. At any point in time another ship could land and simply take over the world. They must be ready. They could even be monitored right now.

If we can master even the basics of Anti-gravity, we could revolutionize space travel or travel in general. Countries would battle for the right to investigate the mechs, the Laz0rs and the aliens.

They would never just slammed into a slum with some stupid secret research facility. This would be the goal of the Human race for decades. They are finally given a assured goal: Crack the Code, get a supership (Sorta). Something that is questionable about other things: Wind energy, Nuclear energy, computers ect.

My problem is that the story is a one sided rehash, with no creative add ons. You may argue "There where Protesters!" but I argue that the whole situation is based on flawed logic.

You have the possibility that:
A: This ship is not actualy down. Its only the illusion. There are secret defense systems waiting to attack.
B: Your being watched
C: That this was a scout ship
D: There this may attract the attention of a Galactic senate.

If even one of thees is possible, slamming the aliens into a slum is one of the worst things you can do.

And yes humans could do something like this.....200 years ago. Especial with a touchy subject of a Technologically Superior race.

chiasaur11

2011-04-01, 02:34 AM

Why are you going a hundred years back? There's a better example sitting right in front of you; the personal computer. Seriously, in about 2 generations they went from taking up warehouses and having actual mechanical parts relaying the data(seriously, you know where the term 'bug' came from? A bug got trapped in a relay) and so expensive only institutions could only afford 1 every so often, to incredibly tiny, and cheap enough that institutions by hundreds, if not thousands. And that's just scratching the surface.

Yet, computers haven't revolutionized the world. At least, not like TheArsenal is suggesting.

Indeed.

World changes every day. You shrug, adapt. Life goes on.

Besides, if any alien visitors were built not to inspire, it'd be the prawns. Just refugees with weird tech. No spiritual insights beyond "huh. So we aren't alone". No tech we don't pry out with our hands at a rate we can manage on our own.

Heck, no new art, really.

That's textbook life goes on material.

Abies

2011-04-01, 02:42 AM

No they don't. :smallsmile:

I'm pretty sure he means in the context of the movie. If not... I can't help, and am saddened.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 02:45 AM

I'm pretty sure he means in the context of the movie. If not... I can't help, and am saddened.

Please don't insult me. I respect you, please respect me.

Eldan

2011-04-01, 02:56 AM

The problem I see is this:

Take a handful of possible news stories:

Economy of [Country] crashes, thousands of protesters in the streets
Volcano threatens [city], tens of thousands evacuated
Aliens land near Johannesburg, scientists excited
[Team] wins [worldwide sport event]

As sad as it is: the first two directly and immediately influence many, many people. Number four will get millions excited. Number three? Sure people will talk about it. But it won't be a number one concern.

Then, imagine, in the context of the movie. You are a scientist working for the UN.

"Dear delegates. We need [billions of dollars] to establish a sterile research facility. We need a room for every single one of [thousands] of aliens. Each room with several cameras, and three watchmen rotating in eight-hour shifts for every camera. We need the installations and computer capacity for all these cameras. Then we need X and Y and Z and ten thousand full time jobs."

Then, six months later, your first audit. "What did you find?" "Oh, it's fascinating! The aliens are all stupid, don't know how their own technology works and they really like cat food!"

How long will you keep your job?

Note that I'm not actually defending everything about the movie. Some things were silly. Like, the technology is DNA-locked? And in 20 years, no one managed to take it apart, take out the DNA lock and replace it with a normal trigger? And I think it might have worked better if others were changed. Like, the ending. It started relatively good, then got a bit into generic action territory.

But in the context, as established, it didn't do a bad job.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 03:45 AM

The problem I see is this:

Take a handful of possible news stories:

Economy of [Country] crashes, thousands of protesters in the streets
Volcano threatens [city], tens of thousands evacuated
Aliens land near Johannesburg, scientists excited
[Team] wins [worldwide sport event]

Im sorry but I dont buy it. Aliens attract EVERYONES attention.

ALIENS ACTUALY LANDED! THIS IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY! THOUSANDS OF YEARS! STUFF!

As sad as it is: the first two directly and immediately influence many, many people. Number four will get millions excited. Number three? Sure people will talk about it. But it won't be a number one concern.

But it changes religeon, the future, the possibilities! This is BS that people would go "Meh".Ten Millions go to see Science fiction fims, and none would worry about REAL aliens?

"Dear delegates. We need [billions of dollars] to establish a sterile research facility. We need a room for every single one of [thousands] of aliens. Each room with several cameras, and three watchmen rotating in eight-hour shifts for every camera. We need the installations and computer capacity for all these cameras. Then we need X and Y and Z and ten thousand full time jobs."

Im not saying SUPER detailed. But at least not slums. I see it this way:

"We need to investigate the aliens that could possibly destroy the world, that already have a space ship and laz0rs."

Then, six months later, your first audit. "What did you find?" "Oh, it's fascinating! The aliens are all stupid, don't know how their own technology works and they really like cat food!"

But they do! Its like they do/don't when convenient!
What about outer space? Tell us!

Some things were silly.

Im fine with a silly story. But they made it preachy. And I hate preachy. it was unoriginal and had to resort to dumbing down the Humans in order to make a point.

It felt like those webcomics that never shut up about feminism, religeon, and humans (Humans are SO dumb we ignore aliens!). Just wish the Pochahontas story wasnt there. It sounded like a good idea.

VanBuren

2011-04-01, 03:58 AM

Except it probably wouldn't shake up religions too much. Not to veer into the topic, but it's not as if say, the Vatican has never considered the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

And let's be honest here. If aliens land, and then a tsunami wreaks havoc on a place like Japan, we're probably going to pay attention to the second one first.

Eldan

2011-04-01, 04:12 AM

We probably wouldn't.

But we are nerds.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 04:30 AM

Im just saying that the Pochahintas story is becoming more and more outdated with every year.

The KKK used to have free reign over minorities
Now its hidden. A small segment of what it used to be hiding from a media of Minorities.

The Westbro Baptist church is considered insane, no longer the standard.

Aliens would attract dumb people (Oooooh aliens!) and Nerds (Lets study the aliens). We would not shove them in a slum.

Eldan

2011-04-01, 04:33 AM

I'd remove the references to specific organizations if I were you, or this thread will probably get locked for politics.

In any case: putting them anywhere other than a slum would probably be very, very expensive. You'd have to get the money somewhere, and you'd have to get the South African government to allow you to do it. Add to that that, as I said, most of the aliens appear to be, basically, drones, dumb, with a certain tendency to violence and not much of an idea how their technology works...

Really, I don't think it's too far off.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 04:35 AM

GolemsVoice

2011-04-01, 04:41 AM

Well, it's been a time since I watched the movie, but as far as I remember, all things that TheArsenal critizized DID happen. The aliens HAVE been researched. Quite some time now, probably. If you looked at scientific periodicals in the movie, the older issues would probably be full of articles covering every single aspect that can reasonably be researched, and, depending on where you look, quite a lot of aspects you CAN'T reasonably research. This has happened, maybe the last ten years. But nobody did find anything. We likely know how the aliens work, biologically, maybe a bit worse than we know ourselves. But apparently not enough to understand them on a DNA level, if such a thing is even possible for humans without far superior scientific equipment.

It's also quite probable that during the first time, and maybe still, a lot of religious cults come to travel to the camps, only to be turned away by the mercenaries. Maybe there are still thousand of cults all over the worldm who knows? The same is likely true for support groups, or extremist groups. Also, space programs have probably gained more interest again, now that humans have an actual thing to search for.

The main problem is: These aliens are incredibly boring. They may sound fascinating, and they certainly ahve been the first ten years, but what now? We can't figure out their technology. We've probably learned all we could, or at least all that official scientists could (which is why research still continues, only not so openly). Think about it: we humans go crazy about the aliens, understandably, but what do they do?

They are stupid. They are lazy. They sit around in the dirt all day, they don't even care. They don't even use any of their superior equipment, if it still functions (if it doesn't, this may be another reason why research hasn't gone so well). They fail to fullfil ANY expectations, to the point where they only are a burden, and a strange, scary burden at that.

Kato

2011-04-01, 04:48 AM

Okay, Arsenal, yo you're main point (or one of them) is humanity not reacting in the way to the aliens you think they should? Like, dropping ALL THE EFFING OTHER RPOBLEMS THE WORLD AS?! 'What, an earth quake in Japan has caused a nuclear catastrophe?/Russia and China decided to start nuking each other?/Terrorists have blow up the White House? - Forget about it, there are aliens!!!' That's not how the world works. Yeah, they didn't really focus on the first years after the appearance and I guess we have to believe all kinds of stuff happened. The movie only got so much time to tell a story and basically you could make a whole series with the material.

Regarding the time argument: I can't toally deny it but 20 years ago the Berlin Wall broke down. How many people still care? I'M German and I hardly do. Well, yeah, it's kind of there but it's nothing the whole world cares about (on a side note here, nut everyone cares about it. The dirt farmer in Nigeria/Vietnam/Columbia probably gives a *** about whether aliens have appeared he needs to get food for his family first)

And what's so unoriginal about it? Yes, aliens landing is old, but I personally have never seen it like this. Maybe I'm ignorant but if you'd point me to a few stories with the same premise I'd gladly agree.

And it wasn't that preachy... There were bad guys. Really bad guys. Period. And those guys were really evil, it was established early on and they stayed in character. And then there were people like the main character who were well... Not exactly nice but pretty much real. They didn't have the alien loving people, okay, I guess those were around, too. But to me they didn't really try to hammer anything in. At least if you're referring to 'humans are bastards' or something like that.

Overall... I think you're just taking your expectations and consider everyone should react the way you expect them to do. But you can't know that, how long it would be reasonable to research them if it proves useless, how much acceptance the aliens would receive from the people, how much money owuld be needed to care for the aliens. You can't magically affect these things and sometimes stuff doesn't work out the way the way you want it to.

Eldan

2011-04-01, 04:52 AM

This is getting into the loop:

I say its just too important to dismiss

You say its not.

I dont want to recap everything I said already for the 3rd time!

And why are some drones smart and others are not?

Christopher was the only smart drone around. Or at least, the only one we see. He kept his head down, apparently well enough that the humans didn't even guess that there were any alien leaders left.

Elder Tsofu

2011-04-01, 04:54 AM

And why are some drones smart and others are not?

That's one of the questions teachers have tried to answer for many years.

I'd be surprised if there were an sort of continuous medial attention* on something like this for longer than 3 months after contact, unless a breakthrough happened. Then you can reset the attention-clock.

*I.e. the more mainstream news-channels.

Some hubbub in the beginning might be expected with a couple of skirmishes and such (just to establish whom have the control of the aliens), but after that? Its not like we're not having too ineffective means to destroy ourselves with already, so the weaponry would probably be non-interesting. (except to possibly ward of an intergalactic attack, which would be silly as you would expect any spacecraft-using species to have the means of killing of the life on earth regardless of our preparations)
If it could be used in everyday life, infrastructure and such - sure, but why have a conflict over it when you just can copy the country which figured it all out first?

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 04:58 AM

The movie only got so much time to tell a story and basically you could make a whole series with the material.

But it focused on the pochahontas story instead.

Regarding the time argument: I can't toally deny it but 20 years ago the Berlin Wall broke down.

Again you take my argument and throw it the opposite direction. Am I honestly expected to believe that humanity goes "Meh" over the aliens? And only after 20 years? The Berlin wall was within our realm of reality. Even the most boring dull aliens, bring along huge mega machines. People love Mechs, and Spaceships.

Maybe I'm ignorant but if you'd point me to a few stories with the same premise I'd gladly agree.

You ignored what I said. I said the Pochahontas story is unoriginal. Peacefull alien landing is not.

At least if you're referring to 'humans are bastards' or something like that.

So the one sided bad guys is not preachy? Or unoriginal?

Overall... I think you're just taking your expectations and consider everyone should react the way you expect them to do. But you can't know that, how long it would be reasonable to research them if it proves useless, how much acceptance the aliens would receive from the people, how much money owuld be needed to care for the aliens. You can't magically affect these things and sometimes stuff doesn't work out the way the way you want it to.

Yes. But your telling me the same thing. That I should accept what you tell me. Im saying why I disliked the movie. Not why you should.

Eldan

2011-04-01, 05:07 AM

Have you seen some of the cold war propaganda? There's plenty of science fiction stories from the sixties to eighties that are set in 2050 or something and focus on the soviet union. Sometimes in space.

Not all people love spaceships. Hard Sci-fi consistently flops in cinema. If it has to have any chance of success, it needs to contain explosions, shoot-outs, love stories and, preferably, some kind of space magic superpowers.

People like sports. Most people worry about their jobs, their incomes, their children and their houses. A significant portion of humanity worries mostly about their next few meals and not getting shot.

Lord of Rapture

2011-04-01, 05:15 AM

The problem, TheArsenal, is that you're approaching the aliens with a decidedly scientific mindset. "Oh my god, think of what we could learn from the aliens! Think of all the possibilities and the philosophical questions their existence poses!" Not only that, but you've been exposed to their existence only recently.

Now imagine an everyday working man or politician, who has a lot more stuff on his mind than aliens. He's trying to support himself or his nations, and after the initial shock is over, and some years have passed, the aliens have provided us with diddly squat. They do nothing, provide us with nothing, and generally are nothing of worth.

Now imagine 20 years later, after the initial discovery. The mainstream media and the world overall has adjusted to their presence. Do you think anyone outside of the academia cares about them anymore?

The Unborne

2011-04-01, 05:32 AM

Warning: all-nighter.

Can someone explain to me what this Pocahontas cliche is? I can see Avatar fulfilling the similar roles: JS being accepted into the native's land, blah, blah, blah; however, the natives in District 9 are the humans themselves. The intruder in this case would be Christopher, but the reversal is that their technology appropriates a human into their own species against Wickus' own will. That's a pretty significant difference.

I also don't see the fuss about preachiness. Are we shown that the bugs are anywhere near the sort of ideal of the "noble savage"? No. They are all---except two---lazy, dim cat-food lovers; this becomes a good parallel when we see all the humans being specists/weapon-mongers---except one (at the end at least)---Wickus. Both groups parallel each other well in this regard if you take each others' flaws as equal.

Again, I don't know what sort of tropes are necessary for the Pocahontas cliche, but I expect there becomes some form of selflessness and empathy. Both Avatar and District 9 touch upon empathy; however, District 9 ultimately remains a selfish story on Wickus' part. He may have took a missile for Chris and his kid, but he's forcing them to come back anyways only to fix his genetics. Heh, just thought about it: John Smith leaves with the blessing of the tribe to return, another nod to the idea that Christopher represents more the English than the native. I like the idea.

And now bed.

Kato

2011-04-01, 06:20 AM

But it focused on the pochahontas story instead.

It's not. As Unborne said, if nyone's Pocahontas, it would be Christopher. But it's a completely different story, at least the premise is. It's about a group of people who can't support themselves and need to be refugees in another people's land. Nothing about an invading force and the poor natives who get slaughtered yet one of the invaders joins the natives yaddaromanceyaddanatureyaddapeace. This is Pocahontas to me. District 9 did if anything hardly touch this idea. The main character hardly interacts with any aliens, he doesn't get anything to do with their culture and how beautiful it is and in unison with nature and so forth.
It's about refugees, at least to begin with and then it's about a fugitive.

Again you take my argument and throw it the opposite direction. Am I honestly expected to believe that humanity goes "Meh" over the aliens? And only after 20 years? The Berlin wall was within our realm of reality. Even the most boring dull aliens, bring along huge mega machines. People love Mechs, and Spaceships.

I do not. I just try to put it in perspective. Yes, the aliens are something bigger, but they don't make all the other problems humanity has disappear. If they spend 20 years (or less) and realized: 'Well, we did what we could, there's nothing left to research/we can't properly talk to them/we can't have them walk free in the streets because...(???)' -> Nothing left to do but get rid of them/put the matter aside. Overstated, I know. You get the idea, I think.

You ignored what I said. I said the Pochahontas story is unoriginal. Peacefull alien landing is not.
Guess I missed something. Yet still, see above. Alien refugees is original, imo.

So the one sided bad guys is not preachy? Or unoriginal?
Unoriginal, maybe, But so is about every bad/good guy. Preachy? NO? These people exist. What... what do you want for a bad guy? They are greedy/blood thirsty/specist bastards. Yes, they could have decided on a more grey scenario. They did not. Are you going to hate half the movies ever made because the bad guys are bad? Or rather, call them preachy? Having a 'evil character' for a villain is not preachy, imo.

[quote]Yes. But your telling me the same thing. That I should accept what you tell me. Im saying why I disliked the movie. Not why you should.
Okay, given, but you started the discussion. We are telling you our arguments and you are telling us yours. Maybe it's me but somehow you seem to be trying to hammer your point in as well. I'm not trying to do this, sorry if it came out wrong. just trying to put things into perspective.

Calmar

2011-04-01, 09:19 AM

Im sorry but I dont buy it. Aliens attract EVERYONES attention.

ALIENS ACTUALY LANDED! THIS IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY! THOUSANDS OF YEARS! STUFF!

But it changes religeon, the future, the possibilities! This is BS that people would go "Meh".Ten Millions go to see Science fiction fims, and none would worry about REAL aliens?

Sometimes strange phenomena are spoted in the skies, sometimes people claim to have had contact with intelligences from beyond earth, sometimes governments and institutions investigate such occurences.
Few people care. Fewer people are concerned, or even afraid. Just a bunch feel that a new age of mankind has begun with some event in 19xx, 19yy, or even 20zz.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 11:01 AM

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 11:16 AM

The Humans are Shown as One Sidedly Evil. It doesn't matter what wasn't in the movie. Showing the humans as "Speciesist" especialy after they dont know for sure what thier ****ing with was just stupid in my eyes.

And the Shrimps are portrayed as Good, due to comparing them to mankind's worst.

Wrong on both counts. Only the MNU is portrayed as unambiguously evil, and only Christopher is portrayed as unambiguously good.

Again, you watched a different movie than us, bro. You gotta learn to lean back, relax, and enjoy the cat food.

GolemsVoice

2011-04-01, 11:39 AM

As far as I know, Wikus doesn't "get" the Shrimps. There's nothing to "get", because, unlike some mystical Native Americans who are totally in tune with their surroundings and everything, the Shrimps are just what is shown here (on Earth, they may well behave totally different on their homeworld), dirty, boring, stupid. The point the movie makes is that humans still aren't treating them well, and that part of their misery and their condition might be because of that. If you spend 10 minutes reading about illegal immigrations, you'll find that this is more or less a given for most illegal immigrants all over the world. The humans here aren't evil for the sake of being evil. That is what HAPPENS, this is REALITY. Illegal immigrants, even without looking like some underswater delicacy, are treated worse than this every day. Now, the researchers, they are one-sidedly evil, and Wikus acknowledges that, but they're only a small group.

Not once in the movie is it stated that the alien culture is somehow superior, or that we should listen to their wisdom. The point is: they are treated badly, and this isn't a nice thing.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 12:02 PM

Not once in the movie is it stated that the alien culture is somehow superior, or that we should listen to their wisdom. The point is: they are treated badly, and this isn't a nice thing.

And I did not need 75 minutes to tell me that. The plot could have been more complex.

Brother Oni

2011-04-01, 12:18 PM

And I did not need 75 minutes to tell me that. The plot could have been more complex.

I suspect that you don't fully appreciate the political background and history of South Africa, to see the parallels in the film (although I agree it was a bit heavy handed).

Saving Private Ryan doesn't have a complex plot either, but that doesn't detract from the film either.

BRC

2011-04-01, 12:38 PM

"Aliens were being treated badly, and that was wrong" is not the Plot of District Nine any more than "Tyranny is bad" was the plot of 1984, "Lighstabers are cool" was the plot of Star Wars or "Peter Sellers is Awesome" was the plot of Doctor Strangelove.

The Plot of District Nine was Wikus getting sprayed with the black gunk, turning into a Prawn, coming to understand how the Prawns are being treated, and joining with Christopher to storm MNU and fix the mothership in an attempt to become human again.

The Message of District Nine was that humans are willing to do horrible things to anything they see as "Different". Wikus was not a cruel xenophobe who hated the Prawns, he was a bureaucrat and something of a buffoon, yet he still saw no problem with what was happening until it started happening to him. They didn't set it in Johannesburg because they liked the name.

The Lesson of District Nine is that Xenophobia is Bad.

warty goblin

2011-04-01, 12:54 PM

Alright, Backtracking time!

I got kinda stuck in Nerd rage land.

Anyway The buildup of why I dislike all of the Above is because it wasted a perfectly good plot:

The Humans are Shown as One Sidedly Evil. It doesn't matter what wasn't in the movie. Showing the humans as "Speciesist" especialy after they dont know for sure what thier ****ing with was just stupid in my eyes.

Some humans are shown that way, and honestly done so in ways that are completely in keeping with historical precedent. Hell, compared to what we've done to ourselves in the past, the prawns got off pretty easy.

In general it strikes me as a fallacy to assume that any irrational action is a plot hole. People are not wholly rational creatures, and rationality itself is inherently relative as well. Portraying humans as behaving in completely rational ways would in fact be a worse violation of realism than showing them as at least partially irrational.

And the Shrimps are portrayed as Good, due to comparing them to mankind's worst.
Only if you subscribe to the particularly obtuse and unsubtle line of reasoning that considers something good if it opposes or is victimized by something bad.

What if the shrimps became homicidal monsters when under a qeen shrimps control? What if their entire race was devoted to colonizing inhabited planets. Enslaving them, then using up all the resources (Slaves included)? Not so sympathetic now huh?
Congratulations, you've turned them into the aliens from every alien invasion movie ever. Totally, utterly more original now.

Now the World has a Dilema: Kill these creatures for what they are or suffer the possibility of Global Conquest (As they might attract attention).
No, then you have a movie that ends in ten minutes with a lot of machine gunned aliens.

Or Just news reports of happenings around the world and how it effected them.

Could be interesting, but would be pretty hard to make a compelling story out of.

Just not another Re-tread of the Pochahontas story. Quite right, now you've got Independence Day: South Africa Edition.

And maybe I missed the Wikus/Christopher romance, but it really isn't the Pocahontas story. It really isn't even close. It's not like Wikus is won over by the culture of the aliens; he's got pretty selfish (or at least human-centric) motives for nearly everything he does in the entire movie. He does eventually recognize the prawns as sapient life forms worthy of respect, but if that's all it takes to make something the Pocahontas story, I could argue that the Iliad is as well. After all, Achilles eventually sees Hector as unworthy of the abuse he's suffered at Achilles' hands.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 12:58 PM

You know what would have been really cool, though? (while not as exciting)

If they continued with the documentary conceit for the whole movie, instead of just the first part.

Worira

2011-04-01, 01:46 PM

Incidentally, I feel like pointing out that Christopher's blog (http://www.mnuspreadslies.com/index.php?page=5/) sheds a surprising amount of light on the world of District 9, and is a pretty excellent read besides. And don't miss the comments.

The_JJ

2011-04-01, 01:55 PM

Anyway The buildup of why I dislike all of the Above is because it wasted a perfectly good plot:

The Humans are Shown as One Sidedly Evil. It doesn't matter what wasn't in the movie. Showing the humans as "Speciesist" especialy after they dont know for sure what thier ****ing with was just stupid in my eyes.

You need to check out the time period and location the movie was set in and then have a nice quiet think about the word 'symbolism.' Remember, that all the Humans you refer to with a capital, all encompassing H, are in fact representative of a specific subset of humanity that happens to get a lot of air time.

The movie didn't show happy children frolicking in the flowers with pink dresses on. This doesn't mean the movie is denying that pink dresses don't exist, or aren't part of humanity. It might, however, mean that pink dresses aren't particularly relevant to the message of the movie.

As for 'oh, unrealism, human would have reacted in x manner,' I counterpoint: a. look at your screen. This is unimaginable technology in front of you. You could have gone to the leading science fiction authors, whose job it was to dream of the future, of say fifty, sixty years ago. They'd dismiss the possibility of this kind of cheap, compact computing power, let alone this vast interconnected 'web' as far to unrealistic for their 10000+ years in the future space opera.

b. you seriously underestimate humanities capacity to get distracted by shiny things.

c. As with the pink dresses argument, this movie was about Wilkus, whose daily job involved dealing with these supremely boring things. Familiarity breeds contempt pretty damn fast. It's nothing special because they're nothing special to him because every day he gets to go out and see how un-special they are.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 02:10 PM

Just wanted to chime in that people have been predicting easy communications and "telescreens", not to mention credit cards, since the 1900s.

On the other hand, those things they didn't expect to come so fast. They expected flying cars, and junk.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 03:07 PM

The movie didn't show happy children frolicking in the flowers with pink dresses on. This doesn't mean the movie is denying that pink dresses don't exist, or aren't part of humanity. It might, however, mean that pink dresses aren't particularly relevant to the message of the movie.

Just like in Avatar! There are HUNDREDS of Protesters back in earth. You just dont get to see them because if you did, you would feal more sympathy for the humans.

This is manipulative! Its PERPOSEFULLY showing ONLY the negative side to add sympathy, because in reality the Aliens would be treated rather well.

"But that aint compelling Cinema"

b. you seriously underestimate humanities capacity to get distracted by shiny things.

No matter how dull, aliens are the most SHINY thing there would be on the planet. Laz0rs, spaceship, and mechs are just add ons.

There would be tours through a real life ALIEN SPACE SHIP. It would be a marvel. It would be constantly explored, studied.

Getting to translate is not that hard. They can communicate between each other right? So do the Iron Giant Treatment. Then ask them about space, thier leaders, thier lives.

And yes THYMBOLISM! is an excuse I get it, but I say its just hammering in the message for the 100th time!

I read the blog, "HUMANS ARE TEH EVILS!".

"I am one of the thousands of Outlanders who are exploited and mistreated by the MNU corporation- and by extension the government and the entire world"

No one sidedness whatsoever. No siree.

But This is nitpicking. I just hated the one sided story, when it could have focused on the news reports, and a fairer view.

Why am i not allowed to dislike the movie? i felt manipulated instead of fealing honest emotion.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 03:12 PM

This is manipulative! Its PERPOSEFULLY showing ONLY the negative side to add sympathy, because in reality the Aliens would be treated rather well.

Hehehe. AHAHAHAHAHA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *cough* sorry about that one.

Why am i not allowed to dislike the movie? i felt manipulated instead of fealing honest emotion.

Well, you made a thread, bro. That implies you want discussion, not merely agreement.

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 03:19 PM

Hehehe. AHAHAHAHAHA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *cough* sorry about that one.

Do I need to go through the list again?

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 03:20 PM

Do I need to go through the list again?

By all means. :3

TheArsenal

2011-04-01, 03:27 PM

By all means. :3

We would outright FEAR the Aliens:
These aliens could be:

A: Scout Ship of an armada
B: A Test By Over minds or such
C: Secretly watching us right now
D: Pretending to be brain dead

These are no longer far fetched ideas. All of the above could be possible.
So treating them decently could avoid conflict if their race arrives on the planet.
Costing Millions. But you can at least tell the public "We are doing this is case thier race arrives to see us treating them well. Possibly even rewarding us". After a two hundred years or so: Yeah possible we would forget. But twenty is not nearly enough time.

Asheram

2011-04-01, 03:31 PM

Just like in Avatar! There are HUNDREDS of Protesters back in earth. You just dont get to see them because if you did, you would feal more sympathy for the humans.

Whut? Has anyone called blame upon humans as a species yet? The humans and "The Evil Greedy Corporation" is set apart

This is manipulative! Its PERPOSEFULLY showing ONLY the negative side to add sympathy, because in reality the Aliens would be treated rather well.

"But that aint compelling Cinema"

Noooo... not really. They don't contribute in any way and is just an enormous budget sink. I can imagine that they were treated quite well for a little while (before they found that the aliens are just bums that sit around all day)

No matter how dull, aliens are the most SHINY thing there would be on the planet. Laz0rs, spaceship, and mechs are just add ons.

Even the most extraordinary thing becomes mundane after a while. Especially after 20 years of non-activity

There would be tours through a real life ALIEN SPACE SHIP. It would be a marvel. It would be constantly explored, studied.

The **** that there'd be tours. It sounds a bit like a deathtrap. And it's not that they've given up studies, which is shown when the main character is brought to the laboratory, this isn't something they'd come up with on five minutes. Those alien corpses were actively being studied.

Getting to translate is not that hard. They can communicate between each other right? So do the Iron Giant Treatment. Then ask them about space, thier leaders, thier lives.

They did. Repeatedly. The aliens all answered with "We don't know nothing. We just want to go home... do you have some food?"

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 03:32 PM

A: Scout Ship of an armada

First off, as a species, we don't exactly have very good foresight. "SAY, SAY, BOBBY, LET'S BUILD A WEAPON THAT CAN TOTAL A CITY IN A SINGLE HIT. NOTHING BAD CAN POSSIBLY RESULT!"

Not to mention the fact that when they cracked open the ship, they discovered a horde of aliens that could barely pilot their "scout ship".

B: A Test By Over minds or such

This is a tinfoil hat-type theory.

C: Secretly watching us right now

Can't discuss this one without going into politics, but then the only people who care about the possibility of secret observation are the tin hats and Jack Ryan.

D: Pretending to be brain dead

So's my dog. He clearly wants to take over my house.

Knaight

2011-04-01, 03:36 PM

No matter how dull, aliens are the most SHINY thing there would be on the planet. Laz0rs, spaceship, and mechs are just add ons.

There would be tours through a real life ALIEN SPACE SHIP. It would be a marvel. It would be constantly explored, studied.

Getting to translate is not that hard. They can communicate between each other right? So do the Iron Giant Treatment. Then ask them about space, thier leaders, thier lives.

"Shininess" is an effect of novelty. Aliens are going to be the most shiny thing on the planet once they get there, until that story dries up. They can hold it for longer if they ever do anything, but no, they eat catfood.

The alien ship would probably last for quite a while as a tourist spot if that was exploited. However, it would be facing competition from all the other spots as well.

Most of the aliens aren't even capable of intelligent conversation, and most people wouldn't care. Iron Giant worked because it was one giant and one boy, they knew each other personally, and they wanted to know of each other because they were friends. The massive concentration camps are going to breed detachment over distance, and familiarity to the point of irrelevance for the people living by them.

GolemsVoice

2011-04-01, 04:03 PM

There would be tours through a real life ALIEN SPACE SHIP. It would be a marvel. It would be constantly explored, studied.

This is a thing you do not seem to understand: This has happened. . Research is, as far as anyone can find out, at the end. There is nothingleft to find. They have tried for 20 years, and what you see in the movie is all they got. So, yes, there may be mechas, lazers, a cure for aids, cancer and baldness, all in this ship, but we haven't found them, and it is very likely they will never find it.

And it becomes a bit hard being fscinated by the aliens all the time. They do nothing. They have great expectations attached to them, but they don't fullfil a single one of them. After 20 years of watching "the most shiny thing" sitting in his own filth, eating cat food while being nearly robbed blind by a few guys, one might get kind of frustrated.

And yes, the movie is trying to "manipulate" you, in the sense that it has a message. A meaning beyond "lol, explosions". And it doesn't even drive it home quite as forcefully as it could (though subtlety is another thing). You don't have to agree with it. But you can't blame the movie simply for trying to make a point. Manipulation implies trying to convince you through methods beyond your control, while you are unaware. Anyone with a little knowledge of human affairs and history will notice what the movie wants to say.

SaintRidley

2011-04-01, 04:06 PM

We would outright FEAR the Aliens:
These aliens could be:

A: Scout Ship of an armada
B: A Test By Over minds or such
C: Secretly watching us right now
D: Pretending to be brain dead

These are no longer far fetched ideas. All of the above could be possible.
So treating them decently could avoid conflict if their race arrives on the planet.
Costing Millions. But you can at least tell the public "We are doing this is case thier race arrives to see us treating them well. Possibly even rewarding us". After a two hundred years or so: Yeah possible we would forget. But twenty is not nearly enough time.

A, B, C and D all equate to the same thing: a threat.

You really think humans would be welcoming and kind to a perceived threat?

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you know nothing of your own species.

Unless...

You're a prawn!

Teron

2011-04-01, 04:30 PM

For the record, the prawns aren't named after shrimp. They're named after these things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parktown_prawn).

VanBuren

2011-04-01, 05:10 PM

Incidentally, is Christopher actually a drone like the rest of them? I wouldn't be surprised if he belonged to some higher caste, thus explaining his initiative.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 05:17 PM

Incidentally, is Christopher actually a drone like the rest of them? I wouldn't be surprised if he belonged to some higher caste, thus explaining his initiative.

It's apparent that he's some kind of Leader, having initiative and intelligence far above the regular ones.

On the other hand, he might just be an exceptional individual.

VanBuren

2011-04-01, 05:20 PM

It's apparent that he's some kind of Leader, having initiative and intelligence far above the regular ones.

On the other hand, he might just be an exceptional individual.

That would seem to be in contrast to the biology of the species.

Then again, maybe there are no genetic castes, but there's just a tendency for one or two prawns to naturally be more assertive every few generations.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 05:22 PM

That would seem to be in contrast to the biology of the species.

Then again, maybe there are no genetic castes, but there's just a tendency for one or two prawns to naturally be more assertive every few generations.

This would actually be an interesting thought experiment. If the prawns actually have strong differences in their castes due to their particular biological makeup, then our concepts of equality and "rights" might not be as appropriate to them.

Mr.Bookworm

2011-04-01, 05:32 PM

Incidentally, is Christopher actually a drone like the rest of them? I wouldn't be surprised if he belonged to some higher caste, thus explaining his initiative.

You can pretty clearly see the shuttle fall off the in the beginning of the movie. I've always assumed that he was the last of the pilot/leader caste, who escaped when the mothership entered the atmosphere.

The Glyphstone

2011-04-01, 05:34 PM

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 05:35 PM

Well, according to Word of God, the reason the black fluid caused Wikus to turn into a prawn is because it's essentially a rapid repair system - it was "fixing" Wikus.

So it's pretty clear that their biology/biotech might be much more advanced, perhaps even more than their other tech. They have dna-encoded weapons, for one thing.

Mr.Bookworm

2011-04-01, 05:49 PM

Or maybe Christopher is/was a drone, but something in prawn physiology causes drones to 'upgrade' to a higher-caste form if a large population of drones goes a sufficient period of time without direction from a high-caste individual...sort of how a colony of bees can spontaneously create a queen if they lack one.

That might make sense, but Christopher's actions show some serious forethought. He guided the shuttle into a safe place where the humans wouldn't find it, buried it, blended in with the other prawns for 20 years without being discovered, and all of that time was patiently collecting the fluid.

Not to mention that he pretty clearly knows how their technology works on a detailed level, and unless the prawns are like the Orks of 40k, he couldn't have spontaneously generated that knowledge.

The Glyphstone

2011-04-01, 05:55 PM

That might make sense, but Christopher's actions show some serious forethought. He guided the shuttle into a safe place where the humans wouldn't find it, buried it, blended in with the other prawns for 20 years without being discovered, and all of that time was patiently collecting the fluid.

Not to mention that he pretty clearly knows how their technology works on a detailed level, and unless the prawns are like the Orks of 40k, he couldn't have spontaneously generated that knowledge.

Ah. I haven't seen the movie, so I only knew Christopher as the 'prawntagonist' character. With that evidence, he is pretty obviously a leader of some sort.

though (tinfoil hat) the upgrade-theory still works if all the prawns actually have the knowledge Christopher displayed, but have it either naturally or artifically suppressed until the spontaneous upgrade occurs. This turns the prawns from a drone-species with a few leaders, to a species where said leaders deliberately and effectively lobotomize their fellows, while leaving an 'out' to avoid extinction just in case something happened to them personally...

VanBuren

2011-04-01, 06:00 PM

1dominator

2011-04-01, 06:20 PM

I quite liked district 9, yes perhaps the message was a little heavy handed but the reaction of the common populace was quite realistic. These are not advanced, intelligent nigh divine aliens. It is a bunch of refugees who arrive in an ill maintained transport ship without even the equipment to support themselves. Add to that the fact that they stupid, incapable of human speech and have no real clue as to how their own technology works. ( I realize Christopher was an exception but I got the impression that he was of another caste, an engineer or a pilot or something of the sort.) Considering how badly people treat those who LOOK humanoid the reaction of the populace (especially in a country like South Africa, which has mass poverty and a history of segregation) is not at all surprising.

The biggest issue was that the whole alien management thing was handed off to some corporation as opposed to being managed by the UN since first contact would indeed be an international affair. As for panic and anarchy in the streets that is highly unlikely at least in the long term. During the Cold war people lived in daily fear of a nuclear apocalypse and the worst that happened was anti-communist demonstrations (In the west at least). It is not like the aliens were particularly threatening and arrived on a warship, they were clearly refugees one of the least threatening demographics. Not to mention stupid and sub-servient. While some initial panic would have been inevitable 20 years is a very long time, more than long enough for things to calm down.

As for people being evil jerks, this is not really true. People do have some nasty tenancies but this is mostly a result of our habit to think in terms in us vs. them. The treatment of the us is disproportionately superior to our treatment of the them.

Science Officer

2011-04-01, 07:20 PM

I have no idea why I thought this, but I imagined hearing somewhere that the aliens of District 9 were listless and unmotivated because theirs was some kind of plague ship, they were all sick and trying to escape from somewhere. Which makes far less sense than the more sensible insect parallel.

As for the quality of either movie, I haven't seen Avatar, but Pocohantas WITH ALIENS doesn't sound too great. District 9 isn't "racism WITH ALIENS", it's "apartheid WITH ALIENS" which is a mite more original.
I definitely enjoyed District 9 and while it might not be terribly realistic, it is not unbearably so.

Callos_DeTerran

2011-04-01, 07:55 PM

Incidentally, is Christopher actually a drone like the rest of them? I wouldn't be surprised if he belonged to some higher caste, thus explaining his initiative.

I heard a theory, that's backed up by what you see in the movie for the most part, that Christopher wasn't a member of the leadership caste, so much as a 'scientist' caste. Think about it, him (and maybe his son, I don't remember) are the only green prawn until the end of the movie and Wikus turns into one himself. They are also the only prawns to demonstrate actual intelligence.

Wikus himself is pretty much ignored by the prawns once he starts to change until the very end when he's half+ prawn and about to be executed...when the other prawns abruptly jump to his defense when they've shown no indication of defending people (aside from Christopher) before, or even each other. The theory went that Wilkus was turning into one of the scientist/leadership caste himself and, just because he was about to be ganked (and partially from using so much of their technology) his body began putting out pheromones that would tell the prawn that he was leadership/scientist caste...and thus somebody to defend.

It was an interesting little theory in my mind and explains why Wilkus kept his intelligence.

And, just to present another point, the prawns weren't just sitting around, being dumb, and eating catfood...they were actively being menaces to those around them. Not threats mind you, but they wrecked trains, stole, and might have even kidnapped people for reasons we didn't know and the prawns themselves apparently didn't know. They were less then useless, they were annoying nuisances that had tons of money being spent to maintain their 'territory' that could have been spent on...the PLETHORA of problems in South Africa who then went on to require more money to fix their messes.

Honestly, I'm more surprised the prawns where shoved into a slum instead of killed outright by an angry mob.

UN Involvement: I got the impression that the UN was involved (at first) but when the prawns proved dangerous lumps of useless chitin they handed off control to a private cooperation to save money since MNU's illegal experiments into how to use the alien weaponry wasn't known yet.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-01, 08:21 PM

Honestly, I'm more surprised the prawns where shoved into a slum instead of killed outright by an angry mob.

I think the whole "7 feet tall and strong enough to rip a man's head off without much effort" thing might have something to do with that.

Asthix

2011-04-01, 08:44 PM

District 9. How it should have ended. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3TQmCTWFbg)

Just gonna leave that right there.

The_JJ

2011-04-02, 04:50 AM

Just like in Avatar! There are HUNDREDS of Protesters back in earth. You just dont get to see them because if you did, you would feal more sympathy for the humans.

This is manipulative! Its PERPOSEFULLY showing ONLY the negative side to add sympathy, because in reality the Aliens would be treated rather well.

"But that aint compelling Cinema"

Purposefully. Yes. Only it's not about manipulating your emotions to make human's look bad, for... some unspecified reason. It's about a country that live for centuries with an apartheid system trying to work out the why's and what to do's while tossing in some explosions.

Seriously, if you're saying 'in reality the Aliens would be treated rather well' you're being very optimistic, and, perhaps we grant you that, then you're attempting to view something literally that doesn't really need to be. 'Realistically' speaking, this whole movie is stupid. FTL=unrealistic plot. If 'humans a can be quite bad to outsiders and quickly shut out the plight of others to make living their daily lives easier' damages your suspension of disbelief more than a big floaty space ship with aliens in it, I'd suggest you need to watch more news, go travel off the beaten path to somewhere out internet access, and then compare the two worlds presented.

It'll be good for you. Everyone should travel, everyone should watch the news.

Brother Oni

2011-04-02, 05:30 AM

Seriously, if you're saying 'in reality the Aliens would be treated rather well' you're being very optimistic

Perhaps he's just untravelled and hasn't spent time in a deprived area or somewhere that isn't a First World country.

It's hard to emphasise with something when you have no context or personal experience to relate to.

If the aliens had landed somewhere else, the tone of the film would be very different - imagine if they had landed in North America or Europe for example, instead of Africa? Things may have been more as TheArsenal believes then, but then again, they may not.

TheArsenal

2011-04-02, 06:55 AM

Perhaps he's just untravelled and hasn't spent time in a deprived area or somewhere that isn't a First World country.

Are you insulting me?

Eldan

2011-04-02, 06:58 AM

Are you insulting me?

That's no insult. It just seems that, generally, you have a bit of an idealistic worldview. Which isn't a bad thing at all.

Kato

2011-04-02, 07:19 AM

Are you insulting me?

Nobody's insulting you, pal. Sorry, but I think you need to grow a thicker skin. Just because we disagree with your opinion doesn't mean we insult you or anything.

TheArsenal

2011-04-02, 07:37 AM

That's no insult. It just seems that, generally, you have a bit of an idealistic worldview. Which isn't a bad thing at all.

No, more of a "In denial" world view. It helps cope with not killing oneself.
Look, I live in Ukraine. It sucks here. I know about all of the Horrible crap happening around the world. But when it comes to aliens....I doubt that they would be THIS forgotten.

I doubt there would be constant media attention, but there would be alot of resources devoted to studying the ship, much more than what I saw in the movie. It would be a wide open mode of research, with permission for many new jobs. We, as a human race devote ourself to the study of MANY things for LONG periods of time. Cars, guns, medicine. All receive constant attention. Researching Anti-Gravity and Lazors would be one of them. It wouldn't be conducted by a single EVIL (Yes its completely one sided.) company in secret.
There would be research labs On the ship, and outside it, studying the psychology of the aliens, their lives, the layout of the ship. Possibly even sitcoms ( "Did you eat the cat...AGAIN?" *Laugh track*). And is it that hard to ask them "Hey can you hold this laz0r? We would give your family some extra rations if you demonstrate your gun while we monitor its activity". It wouldn't be that hard to solve.

Just because it landed in Africa it doesn't mean that that the world follows the finders, keepers rule. The UN would intervene, and develop a contract of sorts with the country.

In addition the aliens aren't just food eating rocks. Their still creatures, they still can work.
Why would there be a quarell of legally (Not secretly by an EVIL company) paying them food/money (to buy more food) in exchange for work around the globe? Their strong, and not very smart. Like helping Africa in building shelters. pretty good way to help a third world country, while having the aliens have their fair share of work. Their already working for just food, so its much cheaper that way. Unless their absolutely mindless after which I no longer care fore them at all.

You can have them build their own shelters, then that way its rather self sufficient. Just provide rocks, some metal, ect. Tell them about farming, and test the different kinds of food with them so that they can work it off.

It WAS a one sided view (Well thats probably opinion), and the intention of the movie was to show this one sided view. I get this vibe even MORE after seeing the blog.

I just didnt like the movie. You can love it. Im fine with that. But this was how i felt.

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-02, 07:51 AM

No, more of a "In denial" world view. It helps cope with not killing oneself.
Look, I live in Ukraine. It sucks here. I know about all of the Horrible crap happening around the world. But when it comes to aliens....I doubt that they would be THIS forgotten.

I'm from the Philippines, so I know that feel better than you might think.

And I tell you that if aliens landed majority my people wouldn't give half a damn after the first few years. Once the shininess fades, it'll be back to scrounging up enough for a family of 7.

GolemsVoice

2011-04-02, 08:06 AM

And is it that hard to ask them "Hey can you hold this laz0r? We would give your family some extra rations if you demonstrate your gun while we monitor its activity". It wouldn't be that hard to solve.

Wasn't there a clip in the movie that showed that they did this? And gave up after they found out that the aliens could fire the guns without problem, but couldn't tell the humans how to break the genetic encryption? Even if there wasn't, they made it very clear that they have researched the hell out of the guns, and the aliens, and found nothing.

In addition the aliens aren't just food eating rocks. Their still creatures, they still can work.

They can work, for sure, but it's hard to explain to some people why foreigners should be aloowed to work in your country. Now imagine the ones "stealing your job" are disgusting prawns.

You can have them build their own shelters, then that way its rather self sufficient. Just provide rocks, some metal, ect. Tell them about farming, and test the different kinds of food with them so that they can work it off.

Again, I think this has been done. One of the major problems in the movie is the lack of initiative in the aliens. They just exist. Sometimes they get violent, but most of the time they just go around being ugly.

It is actually a rather good parallel to the situation of immigrants and supressed minorities, just as it was intended. I work with illegal immigrants a little bit myself, and while there are often remarkable individuals fighting for their rights and strifing to improve their situation with incredible willpower, most of them have resigned into their fate, and are therefore viewed by parts of the populace as "useless, criminal, etc." I won't say much more, for fear of straying to far into political territory.

Syka

2011-04-02, 09:23 AM

About UN involvement/Other governments getting involved: Sovereignty.

Each nation is considered a sovereign state and other nations (technically) can't get dictate what they do. If South Africa doesn't want to grant other nations rights to the ship, they don't have to. Other governments can't force them without war.

Also, the same thing goes with UN. UN has very little actual authority, if any. Some of the courts have a bit of power but...even that is VASTLY limited. The UN can deploy peace keepers to nations with issues, but those people can't do anything. They actually annoy some military troops because they can't. do. anything.

The UN involvement with this situation would probably be limited to maybe a few resolutions about how the prawns should be treated and that sort of thing. They really can't do anything else without the agreement of the nations involved.

UN has no power, basically*.

That said, I think there would still be interest in the ship. There probably was. Difference- when the 'war' part breaks out, they probably stopped visits to the ship AND District 9. Ya know, to keep their scientists, anthropologists, etc safe. Same for tourists. What's been going on in the Middle East is a great example- as soon as the fighting broke out, nations began trying to evacuate their nationals. Add to this that we only see it from Wikus', his assistant's, and the documentary crew's point of view. I doubt the MNU deals with the scientists and/or tourists all that often and they probably don't even have control over the ship- that is probably up to the South African government and any other groups they choose. I doubt the private military contractor would be trusted with the ship, even if they get to guard the prawns.

*It's really quite sad. But, as I said, it all stems from the sovereignty issue. The EU has experienced problems with national sovereignty versus the good of the union.

Coidzor

2011-04-02, 10:50 AM

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-02, 10:51 AM

That's not really an explanation at all. South Africa alone isn't equipped to deal with that level of research, very few single states are, and the rest of the world would have all kinds of other ways that pressure would be applied to them that aren't offensive military actions.

Which would explain why the research duties were handed over to the MNU, which has no overt political ties.

Syka

2011-04-02, 11:20 AM

I never said other nations WEREN'T involved, just that they can't force South Africa to do anything. Also, I feel I made a convincing case for there very possibly being multinational governmental efforts regarding the ship, just that it's off screen since A. it became a voliatile situation (as it would be when relocating any populace) and B. Wikus' life is not concerned with that.

It doesn't mean it wasn't there, just that MNU handled the prawns. Once again, I doubt they have much to do with the ships now.

Also...now I want to watch it again. I loved this movie...

LOTRfan

2011-04-02, 11:21 AM

Sarco_Phage

2011-04-02, 11:23 AM

IAlso...now I want to watch it again. I loved this movie...

Wikus sold it for me. I think he was one of the most believable protagonists I've ever seen in an action movie. You really got he sense that he was just this fairly incompetent guy who got his position because he was marrying the boss's daughter... only for him to stumble headlong into a life changing (literally) device.

Syka

2011-04-02, 11:28 AM

Wikus sold it for me. I think he was one of the most believable protagonists I've ever seen in an action movie. You really got he sense that he was just this fairly incompetent guy who got his position because he was marrying the boss's daughter... only for him to stumble headlong into a life changing (literally) device.

'Zactly. I felt like D9 was less alien invasion movie, so much as a movie about intolerance and an Average Joe who gets caught up in the middle of a bad situation that happens to use aliens as the medium to tell the story.

Callos_DeTerran

2011-04-02, 11:54 AM

I think the whole "7 feet tall and strong enough to rip a man's head off without much effort" thing might have something to do with that.

True, but the mob would have superior numbers and likely weapons considering how close by that slum full of gangsters is. A rifle in hand does a lot for a man's confidence. XD

Coidzor

2011-04-02, 12:25 PM

I never said other nations WEREN'T involved, just that they can't force South Africa to do anything.

I dunno about that. I think there's a historical example here that the movie is based off of that might be pertinent to this vein of discussion, and I'll not go further.

chiasaur11

2011-04-02, 01:30 PM

They can work, for sure, but it's hard to explain to some people why foreigners should be aloowed to work in your country. Now imagine the ones "stealing your job" are disgusting prawns.

If you read Christopher's blog, you find out a lot of them do work.

It's a bit of a company store set-up, natch.

But it is getting use out of them.

Solaris

2011-04-02, 07:47 PM

Even the most extraordinary thing becomes mundane after a while. Especially after 20 years of non-activity

I work in a job that is so technologically advanced and fantastic that it would have been deemed impossible twenty years ago. Some of it is so advanced that it seems like science fiction now. TheAvatar, try telling me again that the fantastic cannot become mundane. I need a chuckle.

For the record, the prawns aren't named after shrimp. They're named after these things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parktown_prawn).

Interesting note. Also, judging by the pictures those bugs are cute.

Or maybe Christopher is/was a drone, but something in prawn physiology causes drones to 'upgrade' to a higher-caste form if a large population of drones goes a sufficient period of time without direction from a high-caste individual...sort of how a colony of bees can spontaneously create a queen if they lack one.

Or they could be more like humans than we're entirely comfortable with, and there are no castes. Like humans, the majority of the prawns were quite content to sit around and do nothing to make their lot in life better after discovering the difficulty inherent in getting along in such an alien society. Caste nothing, you kids try landing on an alien world in a Boeing 747. I know I'd be twelve kinds of screwed, and I'm already halfway trained up to being a pilot. Imagine Joe the Plumber in that situation. Imagine yourself in that situation. If you think you'd do well, you're probably right - we're gamers, we're used to dealing with the alien. Phil and Dixie did a comic on this, many, many moons ago. The average person, not so much. You could see the difference even when we were in Iraq. I, a gamer who's used to dealing with weird things, adapted quite well to the local nationals' customs, language, and language. My buddies, who're your standard-issue tribal-thinking xenophobic humans... not so much.

I'm not a big fan of the movie, the whole message seemed about forty years too late to be worthwhile. TheAvatar, you're missing a fundamental facet of human nature that others have pointed out to you: We are incredibly adept at turning the fantastic into the mundane. We are incredibly adaptable. We adapted to the reality of powered flight. We adapted to the reality of the atomic bomb. We adapted to the reality of computers. We adapted to the reality of pocket phone-computer hybrids. We will adapt to the reality of extraterrestrial life.