Martial factotum questions.

[Vuann]

Ok so after getting some solid advice from a previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193203) I think I'm going to abandon my plan to play an arcane swordsage and go a different route. In a nutshell instead of coming up with a homebrew option, I'd rather be patient and play the real thing. The previous thread explaines my reasoning.

So after looking a bit more into it, I really like the idea of a Factotum. It seems to do most of what I was looking for in utility, and can seems to be a good start into other classes. I already have one level of Rogue and have enough experience to level, though I haven't yet. I think I'd like to go into Factotum for a few levels, then hopefully by level 6 or so I will be able to pick up one of the ToB classes. (DM said by then the new guys should be experienced enough to handle it by that point).

So assuming I went Rogue 1/Factotum 5, what would be a good path forward? Here are my stats:

Human Rogue 1

Str 14
Dex 17
Con 15
Int 15
Wis 7
Cha 9

Feats: TWF, point blank shot, combat reflexes(free from DM)


I had my eyes set on swordsage for the utility and ability to take advantage of my high dex, however my low WIS doesn't mesh well with the class. However after reading a bit more in ToB it seems warblade isn't such a bad option either. I hadn't read much about them thinking they were just a standard fighter, however they seem to get a very good use out of Int and they aren't heavy armor fighters. They even get tumble as a skill which fits my concept of fighting style(see previous thread). Not to mention they get good Fort save and awesome hps, it almost seems a natural synergy between factotum and warblade.

So with that said I'm looking for advice on the possibilities of a build like this. I don't really like TWF at all and would prefer to go 2h with a greatsword or something. I may be able to convince DM at this early stage to let me swap str and dex around, maybe I can roleplay it by doing some special training and only using heavy weapons for the next level or something. That'd allow me to get power attack and focus on str for warblade, and not have to waste a feat on weapon finesse and shadow blade to do any good kind of damage.

If I were allowed to do that I'd probably trade away TWF and PBS(still decent dex I don't think PBS is even needed honestly) and pick up Craven and power attack or something. With one level of Rogue I only would get 1d6 SA but the craven would still add up over the levels and be worth it. It might be worth it to take a few ranks in Iajiutsu focus while I'm factotum to give me some extra burst damage if I win initiative, and that would stack with my SA.

Or I could keep high dex and go swordsage, though I think it'd be a more feat intensive build overall and a bit more squishy. I'm thinking that the high BAB of the warblade with power attack and higher strength would be enough to get my damage output up, not to mention combined with my warblade maneuvers. And I'm thinking with factotum I could max my concentration so by the time I started my warblade levels I'd already have around 9 ranks for Diamond Mind.

Does this seem a feasible path? I can always go back and get factotum levels to make it up to 8, but I think a few warblade levels in between would help me out a bit more.

[Goonthegoof]

Take swordsage for your ninth level and take assassin's stance for 2d6 sneak attack. Use your ninth level feat for shadow blade. Enjoy.

Factotum gains their strongest feature (the ability to gain extra standard actions) at 8th, so it's the perfect time to move into swordsage. From there you can keep going swordsage if you want more martial prowess or continue factotum if you want utility.
Optimal build: Start as a middle aged human, take weapon finesse, shadow blade and as many fonts of inspiration as you can.

Edit: Your dex isn't far enough above your str to warrant finesse/blade. Just take knowledge devotion and a bunch of font of inspirations.

[Vuann]

You're saying my dex and str are close enough it would be a waste to take those 2 feats? So where would I pump up my extra points at 4 and 8? As I said I might be able to convice DM to let me swap them and end up with 18 str at level 4. Or would it be better to max my Int to get more font of inspiration feats and rely on knowledge devotion(+int) for attack and damage bonuses?

If that were the case I could theoretically swap dex with int and have 18 int at level 4 and reap more benefit from the factotum... I forgot about the extra standard action.. would that allow 2 strikes in a round?

On a side note how much do knowledge checks slow down a battle? Can it be done quickly(like a take 10) so it doesn't bog down so much? Also do the turning attempts gained by the factotum's opportunistic peity's ability count in powering devotion feats?

[Goonthegoof]

You're a factotum, pump int above all else. You want maximum int possible since it applies to pretty much everything, and usually physical stats aren't that useful.

Opportunistic piety doesn't technically count as a turn attempt.

Yes, cunning surge lets you do two strikes in a round, so long as they're standard actions.

Knowledge checks seldom slow down the battle, I mean usually you do a knowledge check anyway to try to figure out the capabilities of your foe.

If you can rearrange your stats a factotum/swordmage would optimally have:
Str 9
Dex 15
Con 15
Int 17
Wis 14
Cha 7
And start off middle aged to boost your mental stats. With that build shadow blade/weapon finesse becomes useful again.

The thing you need to note is factotum really is an all-rounder, you're never going to be a top striker with factotum unless you take swordsage for the rest of your levels.
Which isn't exactly a bad option, a factotum 8/swordsage 12 will get 8th level maneuvers and have enough inspiration points if you get FoI a few times to blow every maneuver she has prepared in one round.

[Vuann]

Thanks for your help, though I doubt I can do that much switching of my stats. At best I could probably swap one pair and since my guy already is ready to gain level 2 and has a backstory I can't make him suddenly age :)

I'm thinking maybe I can just swap dex and str and use my factotum levels to pump up knowledge skills, and possibly add collector of stories skill trick. Anytime I get lucky and roll high enough on a knowledge check to get a bigger bonus, I could simply null out the bonus and use it towards power attack to up my damage even without having a huge BAB.

One more thing about knowledge checks. Is it something that is handled during the initiative round as basically a free/immediate action? I just do all my rolls up front and then apply the bonuses from then on? And assuming that, I'd guess if any new creature shows up in the middle of the fight I could simply do a knowledge check before my next turn?

Strangely our group hasn't really done much knowledge checks yet as we've only really encountered basic creatures that don't have anything special to know about them. I guess knowledge devotion would make it so that automatically happens during each fight now and I'd get more benefit than the others. Just have to hope my DM doesn't think it's overpowered or anything, though the cost of having to pump up those skills consistently should negate the power advantage due to the cost. At a minimum at least I'd get a +1 and lucky rolls I might get a +3 at lower levels.

Also with the information provided, what would you think the best fighting style for a factotum should be? 2h weapon seems to be my best bet as I don't think I can cast my spell like abilities with a shield and weapon in hand, and my damage would be better with a 2h weapon. Also with the Int bonus to dex and str skill checks I'd think tripping may be a valid option so having a guisarm on tap may be a good idea as well. Without improved trip I couldn't do a follow up hit, but the tripping option might still be useful tactically.

[Curmudgeon]

Take swordsage for your ninth level and take assassin's stance for 2d6 sneak attack.
There's a problem with this: you only begin play as a Swordsage 1 with a 1st-level stance, and aren't allowed to select higher-level stances like Assassin's Stance until Swordsage 2.

[Goonthegoof]

Good point, that's technically a houserule. It's a houserule that everyone plays with, but technically a house rule.

I've never had a DM who insists that the first level stance thing be enforced, just as I've never had one who let swordsages get 6x6+int at first level.

[Vuann]

I had realized that but since I'd be doing more swordsage levels anyways it didn't really matter. Child of shadows is nothing to sneeze at for a level 1 stance. However I'm still considering warblade for the Int synergy and higher survivability with the hps and such. I could really have my concentration pumped up by that level for Diamond Mind maneuvers.