3.5: Heroics(spell)

[NNescio]

So, the spell Heroics gives a temporary extra fighter feat to play with.

The obvious choice for a wizard would be Improved Initiative. Martial Study and Martial Stance are also rather good... which brings me to my question...

Which stances and manoeuvres with low IL requirements (and no prerequisites) work well on a caster?

Mind over Body?

[Runestar]

Diamond mind maneuvers come to mind, especially those based off concentration checks. As you said, mind over body. Maybe insightful strike if you ever find yourself in melee?

Some of the stances (like white raven) are passive auras, which you can't go wrong with.

The teleport maneuvers from shadow hand are pretty nifty as well.

[NNescio]

Diamond mind maneuvers come to mind, especially those based off concentration checks. As you said, mind over body. Maybe insightful strike if you ever find yourself in melee?

Some of the stances (like white raven) are passive auras, which you can't go wrong with.

The teleport maneuvers from shadow hand are pretty nifty as well.

Combed through ToB:
Mountain Hammer: For breaking objects, dungeon bypasses, and emergency digging. It's better placed on the party's beatstick/skillmonkey though, but sometimes they just won't listen to your plans.
Shadow Jaunt/Stride: Standard/Move action teleport. (Thanks for the suggestion.)
Child of Shadow: Concealment is always nice, and a wizard is probably going to move often anyway.
Dance of the Spider: No need to learn or prepare Spider Climb. Mostly obsoleted by Alter Self though.
(not worth casting Heroics twice.)
Hunter's Sense: Scent! Muhahaha!
Bolstering Voice: Boosts allies' (and caster's)* Will saves.
(*This leads to madness with White Raven Tactics, CustServ be damned.)

Anything else that I've missed?

Edit: Mountain Hammer makes for a rather fine parlour trick for the wizard. As an example...

Rogue fails to pick a lock (even when taking 20), and the fighter types can't bash or pry the door open (which is probably made out of adamantine).

Wizard proceeds to hack the door apart with his dagger (or his bare hands). With Str 8.

Everyone stares at the wizard.

Wizard: "So uncivilized."

Edit^2: Hmm... Martial Stance requires a manoeuvre known in the respective martial discipline. Can multiple castings of Heroics stack, as per Energy Resistance? (the each casting provides a different and non-mutually-exclusive effect clause.)

[Kansaschaser]

The interesting thing about this spell, is that when you reach level 21, it opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

In the Epic game that I ran, the bad guys would cast heroics on themselves, giving them a lot more epic bonus fighter feats.

[Draz74]

Dance of the Spider: No need to learn or prepare Spider Climb. Mostly obsoleted by Alter Self though.
(not worth casting Heroics twice.)

Edit^2: Hmm... Martial Stance requires a manoeuvre known in the respective martial discipline. Can multiple castings of Heroics stack, as per Energy Resistance? (the each casting provides a different and non-mutually-exclusive effect clause.)

Well, first of all, the secret to getting Stances using Heroics is to first have a 3000-gp item that gives you a maneuver in the same school. :smallamused:

As far as whether Heroics stacks, though ... ask your DM. We've debated this on the Forum before, and I don't remember a clear consensus ever coming out of it.

[CigarPete]

What book is this spell in? Might need to see if I can grab this for my gish...

[NNescio]

What book is this spell in? Might need to see if I can grab this for my gish...

Spell Compendium, Page 113.


Well, first of all, the secret to getting Stances using Heroics is to first have a 3000-gp item that gives you a maneuver in the same school. :smallamused:

As far as whether Heroics stacks, though ... ask your DM. We've debated this on the Forum before, and I don't remember a clear consensus ever coming out of it.

How do those items work again? They don't seem to list the IL and recovery method anywhere.

Regardless, brilliant idea.

[Draz74]

Consensus says, if you have levels in an initiator class, then the recovery method is the same one you already use. If you don't have martial initiator levels, the recovery method is the same as if you learned the maneuver via Martial Study, i.e. 1/encounter only.

Whether the maneuver you can learn is limited by your initiator level is controversial. It depends whether having sufficient initiator level is "a prerequisite." Test of Spite ruled that you can bypass normal initiator level restrictions with these items.

[NNescio]

Consensus says, if you have levels in an initiator class, then the recovery method is the same one you already use. If you don't have martial initiator levels, the recovery method is the same as if you learned the maneuver via Martial Study, i.e. 1/encounter only.

Whether the maneuver you can learn is limited by your initiator level is controversial. It depends whether having sufficient initiator level is "a prerequisite." Test of Spite ruled that you can bypass normal initiator level restrictions with these items.

I see. In any case, the Shadow Hands sound like a good buy, 'though I'm not sure if it's quite worth the Gloves slot later on.

Any other useful feats/manoeuvres for a wizard that can be picked up with Heroics?

[Draz74]

I see. In any case, the Shadow Hands sound like a good buy, 'though I'm not sure if it's quite worth the Gloves slot later on.

Probably not, but it's worth the 4500 gp to add it to a different Hands-slot item. :smallamused:

[Curmudgeon]

I see. In any case, the Shadow Hands sound like a good buy, 'though I'm not sure if it's quite worth the Gloves slot later on.
If you're just trying to add one of the typical enhancements (Dexterity or Strength) to any Hands slot items, you won't require custom crafting or pay a cost premium later; see Magic Item Compendium on pages 233-234.