[3.5] Polymorph questions

[Feytalist]

This might have been discussed already, but I would like some clarification.

What is the exact changes to a character using the polymorph spell? (or equivalent ability, like wildshape / alternate form / etc.)

Specifically, HD and hp.

Let's say we have a young adult bronze dragon (18 HD) with the alternate form ability that shifts into a common housecat. Now, for all intents and purposes, does that cat/dragon have 1 HD and 4 hit points? Or, put in another way, is it then possible to kill that dragon/cat with a sling stone throwed by a commoner? Logic wishes to disagree.

What about that same dragon shifting into a human? There's no "base" human, unless we count a lvl 1 commoner with 11 Str, 10 Dex and 10 Con. But why would a dragon shift into that. Can the dragon instead shift into a level 18 human (of whatever class), with the exact same physical ability scores as itself? That might make more sense, as a dragon, in whatever form, should still be powerful.

I'm not too worried about what happens to extraordinary/supernatural attacks/abilities, as I think I've got a good grip on that.

Another question regarding the druid's whildshape:

Now, it's known that the druid cannot morph into a creature (animal/plant/whatever) with more HD than he has caster levels. Now, lets say a level 14 druid wants to wild shape into a dire bear, with 12 HD. But what about an advanced dire bear? (advanced to 14 HD, of course.) Now, if that is possible, is it necessary for the druid to have ever seen an advanced dire bear? Or just the normal kind ("I what to be that, only... larger").

Thoughts, comments?

[supermonkeyjoe]

The http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm entry may answer a lot of your questions.
From the SRD;
Alternate Form

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:


[LIST]
The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.


The druids wildshape is based upon alternate form so most of those rules apply to the wildshape. As far as I'm aware the druid has to change into an animal that is completely typical for it's kind, so no templates and no advancement. Because the druid keeps his BAB, base saves, class features, feats, skill ranks and HP he wouldn't gain much from being an advanced animal anyway (apart from a possible size increase)

[Feytalist]

Huh, I should have checked the SRD.

Thanks, it does answer a lot of my (admittedly dumb) questions. I would still like to know what happens if you morph into another "PC" type race, since there exists no base, unaltered version. Even in the MM, the entries are of the elf Warrior 1 variety.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Huh, I should have checked the SRD.

Thanks, it does answer a lot of my (admittedly dumb) questions. I would still like to know what happens if you morph into another "PC" type race, since there exists no base, unaltered version. Even in the MM, the entries are of the elf Warrior 1 variety.

I always assume one Humanoid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#humanoidType) HD with appropriate adjustments and additions according to the race since races with only 1 HD replace that with class levels if applicable.