Fighting with a spear

[Yora]

I recently tried to make an orc warlord for an E6 game who would use a spear as his primary weapon.

But I very soon realized that there's really nothing for spears in core. Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization work of course, but then I ran out of ideas for feats.

I'm not looking for specific builds here, but I'd like to hear what people have done with characters using spears. All classes and levels are fine.

I guess power attack and cleave might work if you're not using a grid and say you impale one enemy and hit the one behind him as well. But Great Cleave and Sunder just don't seem appropriate for a spear and I wouldn't know what to do with bull rush.

[Garagos]

Are we talking shortspear or longspear?

[Lucid]

You could also use it for ranged combat.

I've had a character use a changeling(MIC) spear. Use as a (short)spear for ranged and close-quarters, and as a longspear for reach.

[Yora]

Spear-spear. But one handed spears and spears with reach are also okay.

[MarkusWolfe]

There's greatspear from CW, which does good damage and has reach, but that's an exotic weapon.

Of course, if you want to do anything with spears with reach, you need the Short Haft feat, also from CW.

[Feytalist]

The changeling spear is a nice idea. For fun, make it returning as well.

PHB2 has some nice spear-focused feats (Long Shaft or such, I've forgotten the exact names [actually, that sounds vaguely dirty :smallredface:]) and Complete Warrior has some nice tactical feats for spears.

Other than that, it's mostly fun for stopping charges.

Edit: Long Shaft = Short Haft. I lol'd.
Edit2: Still sounds vaguely dirty.

[Yora]

I think it would just be nice to do something with a spear other than just poking someone every single round.

[Jarian]

The Ripper from the Planar Handbook is essentially a greatsword in spear form that does piercing damage instead.

That doesn't help your desire to do more than poke things, but it's worth picking up nonetheless.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I think it would just be nice to do something with a spear other than just poking someone every single round.

You might be playing the wrong class. Or Edition.

If you want to go with a Guisarme instead, though, you can make a pretty effective trip build. Not Spiked Chain-cheese level, but effective. A Halberd would be the non-reach version.

Short-Haft + Robilar's Gambit can also give you a ton of AoO potential.

[Feytalist]

I think it would just be nice to do something with a spear other than just poking someone every single round.

Good luck with that :/

Oh I know: make it a spear of wonder! Every round you hit something you roll on the rod of wonder list. What will happen? I don't know!

And neither do you.

[Knaight]

I think it would just be nice to do something with a spear other than just poking someone every single round.

Assuming that poking is fine given variety in poking, the stand still feat has its uses. Other than that, tome of battle maneuvers are your friends.

[LansXero]

I think it would just be nice to do something with a spear other than just poking someone every single round.

Translate the D2 Javazon to a D&D class? :D

[Cog]

Player's Handbook II expands the focus/specialization line. One of the feats is specialized for piercing weapons: Driving Attack gives you a single attack as a full-round action, but if you hit you get a bull rush that replaces your strength with your damage instead. Normally this isn't much, but a dungeoncrashing Fighter can make some use of that to really send people flying.

For more fun, make him an orcish True Believer of Gruumsh, to get into Pious Templar. Gruumsh's relic weapon is a spear, so you can toss Changeling on it to adapt to the situation, and his relic shield gives you immediate-action bull rush in response to attacks. You'll need to get it Animated, alas. Pious Templar isn't really required, but it gives you Specialization free, some minor casting, and you've got True Believer anyway so you can pick up the shield.

[Garagos]

If you go with a spear with reach, Shorten Grip feat is a must. Allows you to attack at both reach as normal and adjacent for a -2 penalty on attack rolls. No having to use any kind of action to designate switching between reach/adjacent either.

[Tokuhara]

Player's Handbook II expands the focus/specialization line. One of the feats is specialized for piercing weapons: Driving Attack gives you a single attack as a full-round action, but if you hit you get a bull rush that replaces your strength with your damage instead. Normally this isn't much, but a dungeoncrashing Fighter can make some use of that to really send people flying.

For more fun, make him an orcish True Believer of Gruumsh, to get into Pious Templar. Gruumsh's relic weapon is a spear, so you can toss Changeling on it to adapt to the situation, and his relic shield gives you immediate-action bull rush in response to attacks. You'll need to get it Animated, alas. Pious Templar isn't really required, but it gives you Specialization free, some minor casting, and you've got True Believer anyway so you can pick up the shield.

^I love that idea!^

I'm actually running a Raptoran Fighter 5 who will take Stormtalon and divebomb with two Halfspears (or whatever the one-handed one is) and flyby with possible Brutal Surge/Dungeoncrasher cheese added for good measure

[Tetsubo 57]

One thing I do is allow anyone with Martial training to use a spear two-handed and a shield at the same time (but not bucklers*). The classic Hoplite maneuver. Spears get the shaft in most RPGs in my opinion.

*Bucklers are held in the hand, not strapped to the forearm.

[Tokuhara]

One thing I do is allow anyone with Martial training to use a spear two-handed and a shield at the same time (but not bucklers*). The classic Hoplite maneuver. Spears get the shaft in most RPGs in my opinion.

*Bucklers are held in the hand, not strapped to the forearm.

I agree. Heck, have him take Leadership and pick up 3/4 allies who are built similarly and form a Phalanx. The old "wall of spears" maneuver is amazing

[Stallion]

Be a Half-Giant. Pick up a Hellspear (be sure to be proficient, as it is exotic) via backstory or by killing an Orthon.

Now, either go Crusader or Warblade. Crusaders get Thicket of Blades, Warblades get Iron Heart and Diamond Mind loveliness.

Go 10 Warblade 4 fighter 4 War Hulk 1 psychic warrior. Pick Expansion for your power and carry around a stack of 50 darts with the Manifester property. You now have 250 pp to fuel Expansion with. Whoo. Grab Inhuman Reach and Long Reach. If you went Warblade, nab Dancing Blade form. Throw on an augmented Expansion and you'll have a 45 foot reach that threatens every single square within said reach. Get improved trip and knockdown. You're a tripper. Grap Combat Reflexes and Hold the Line. You can now trip pretty much anyone moving through your threatened squares. Grab Rapid Counter if you're a Warblade. Now you can hit them again. Nab Robilar's Gambit. You can now hit them while they're hitting you. Grab Defensive Sweep. You can hit them again if they don't move. Grab Stand Still. You can make it impossible to move.

Place yourself in a crowd of mooks and attack 3 at a time after using Mithral Tornado. Much hilarity will ensue.


Similar to some Spiked Chain cheese, but with more reach. Less potential for AOOs, sadly.

[pilvento]

There's greatspear from CW, which does good damage and has reach, but that's an exotic weapon.

Of course, if you want to do anything with spears with reach, you need the Short Haft feat, also from CW.

This weapon also allows yo to enter Exotic Weapon Master, and pick some tricks for your spearman. reach and trip is allways a win also.

[Yora]

Watching some more footage of people sparring with spears, I think it's justifiable to allow disarming and tripping with a spear. Int 13 is tough for an orc warrior, but it's an NPC, so ability scores are what I want them to be. :smallbiggrin:
There's also a weapon style feat for halberds which allows you to use the lower end as a blunt weapon for two-weapon fighting, and I see no reason why it wouldn'Ät work with a spear as well. That gives you a nice couple of options to beat your opponents up with. And then poke them to death!

[arguskos]

Dragon Compendium has a handful of neat polearm feats:

-Brace for Charge: Lets you set any polearm against a charge (I like using the duom, since the wording on setting against a charge makes me think that any attack made against a charging character in the round you set against them does double damage, and the duom can attack adjacent, letting AoO characters be hilarious).
-Pike Hedge: Lets you set against a charge with ANYTHING and to deal triple damage with anything you can already set with (like a spear).
-Pole Balance: Gives you +4 against bull rushes and trips when wielding polearms.
-Pole Fighter: Lets you flurry with a polearm.
-Shorten Grip: Lets you attack adjacent with a polearm.
-Vault: Gives you bonuses to Jumps with polearms.
-Spinning Defense: Gives you a bonus to AC and lets you have infinite Deflect Arrows when using a polearm in total defense.
-Haft Strike: Lets you use the butt of a polearm as a secondary weapon and to TWF with a polearm.
-Long Strike: Lets you extend a polearm's reach by 5-ft (making the awl pike officially give a medium character TWENTY FOOT reach).

Really, if you want a polearm character, you want Dragon Compendium for your feats. They're so much victory in so many ways.

[Sarco_Phage]

I like this. It makes it possible to fight kung-fu style with a spear.

[Yora]

I've seen quite a few kung fu moves that would be "long strike". Striking with a spear like with a pool cue by grasping the very end with one hand and sliding the shaft over the palm of your other hand gives you ridicolous reach.

However, setting against a charge is a ready action, so you can't use it for AoO.

[arguskos]

I've seen quite a few kung fu moves that would be "long strike". Striking with a spear like with a pool cue by grasping the very end with one hand and sliding the shaft over the palm of your other hand gives you ridicolous reach.
Indeed. Also, I love those feats so much. Man, why does everyone seem to hate on DragComp so much? That book is so full of delicious victorious win.


However, setting against a charge is a ready action, so you can't use it for AoO.
Ah, but it triggers as an AoO, and if you're using a reach weapon, they could conceivably provoke a few times, depending on the length of your polearm/natural reach. Basically, you can work it so that you get multiple hits on a set, and each should do double damage (but the wording is terribly ambiguous on setting against a charge, so iunno).

[Knaight]

Watching some more footage of people sparring with spears, I think it's justifiable to allow disarming and tripping with a spear. Int 13 is tough for an orc warrior, but it's an NPC, so ability scores are what I want them to be. :smallbiggrin:
There's also a weapon style feat for halberds which allows you to use the lower end as a blunt weapon for two-weapon fighting, and I see no reason why it wouldn'Ät work with a spear as well. That gives you a nice couple of options to beat your opponents up with. And then poke them to death!

I've done both. Any axe that is has an uneven curve can be disarmed relatively easily (inasmuch as disarming is ever easy), and mechanically trip takes into account all sorts of knock downs, and a two handed thrust at an incoming opponent into armor does a good job with that. Concerning using the spear as a double weapon, its not exactly realistic, but considering what else goes on in D&D it might fit with the general tone.

[Yora]

Punching someone in the face with the other end of your spear is cool! :smallbiggrin:

[arguskos]

Punching someone in the face with the other end of your spear is cool! :smallbiggrin:
You're damn right it is! Even better would be playing a thri-kreen, and punching all sorts of people all sorts of places with every part of your spear.

Now I've got this idea of a thri-kreen using a spear and a longspear at the same time, and IT IS AWESOME. *nicks off to go make one*

[Yora]

Make it three or four of them. :smallbiggrin:

[Human Paragon 3]

I made a pretty effective spear fighter once, but I used a guissarm instead of a spear and just called it a spear.

It was Fighter 4/Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1.

I took improved trip, improved unarmed strike, combat reflexes and defensive throw. That way I could rage and make trip attemtps, then wheenver my opponent missed me, I got a free trip attempt. It was pretty good for a level 5 guy, and I'm sure it would translate well into e6.

[Toofey]

I think it would just be nice to do something with a spear other than just poking someone every single round.

It's a pointy stick! Poking is what you do with it.

Anyway, I'm 2nd ed so I don't know all this new rulesy stuff, but I would make sure that you had some throwing spears, and to try to go for targeted attacks, like taking out someone's leg so you can use the spear to attack and to keep them from closing with melee weapons.

Also make sure you look for times to charge, and to set to receive charges with the spears.

Finally make sure you take mounted combat, nothing's better than poking people with a sharp stick while riding past them at a gallop.


OH wait! I forgot, you can use a spear to attack from behind another fighter, So if you have a tank or two on your party you can hide behind you can increase your number of attacks in a direction (so both you and he could attack someone in a doorway for instance) and giving you some cover.

[Knaight]

It's a pointy stick! Poking is what you do with it.

Anyway, I'm 2nd ed so I don't know all this new rulesy stuff, but I would make sure that you had some throwing spears, and to try to go for targeted attacks, like taking out someone's leg so you can use the spear to attack and to keep them from closing with melee weapons.

Also make sure you look for times to charge, and to set to receive charges with the spears.

Finally make sure you take mounted combat, nothing's better than poking people with a sharp stick while riding past them at a gallop.


OH wait! I forgot, you can use a spear to attack from behind another fighter, So if you have a tank or two on your party you can hide behind you can increase your number of attacks in a direction (so both you and he could attack someone in a doorway for instance) and giving you some cover.

Many real spears have some degree of slashing capability, though that isn't going to happen with one hand.

Targeted attacks no longer exist in D&D, and you would want to go for a torso shot most of the time anyways. It minimizes missing, and causes the most harm, so unless it is armored well beyond the rest of the body or there are some large shields in play it is pretty much the best target.

Charging with a spear is no more useful than with any other weapon in 3e. That doesn't mean it isn't useful.

Waiting to receive charges is asking for trouble. Specifically trouble of the spells or pointy flying sticks variety.

I suspect mounted combat goes against the stylistic concept. Besides, it only lasts until the horse dies.

Short spears don't work well with hiding behind people, and this is just assumed with allies and longer spears (or one abuses tripping or the Stand Still feat.)

[Yora]

As cool as it is to set polearms against charges, it completely relies on enemies charging you. That makes it a bad choice to make it one of your primary ways to deal damage. If the opportunity presents itself, sure, take it. But the rest of the time you have to have other options to rely on.

The PHB treats lances as different from spears, but it also assumes late medieval tournament lances, which were actually meant to not cause much damage. (That's not solid wood, but meant to splinter. You wouldn't be able to hold a medium tree stem with one hand.)
Actual combat lances were much more similar to pikes. So it's reasonable for DMs to allow longspears to be used as lances. And with Spirited Charge, that makes tripple damage during a mounted charge. That's really nasty.
Actually, I like the idea of putting an orc warlord on a massive horse and have him charge right into the crowd.
In crowded situations, he'd still have to dismount and beat people up the old fashioned way, but it certainly makes for a dramatic entrance.

[MarkusWolfe]

I suspect mounted combat goes against the stylistic concept. Besides, it only lasts until the horse dies.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pCG_c3Rq788/S9XyJMxFNgI/AAAAAAAAHUk/KcGDO8rZiRI/s1600/Men+stand+near+royal+elephant+groomed+before+howda h+put+in+place+1929.jpg

Problem?

Also, provide the elephant with the warbeast template and advanced hitdie.

[John Campbell]

Actually, I like the idea of putting an orc warlord on a massive horse and have him charge right into the crowd.
In crowded situations, he'd still have to dismount and beat people up the old fashioned way, but it certainly makes for a dramatic entrance.

Bah. Horses are for short-tooths. Dire wolf.

(This was the basic concept that turned into the wolf-riding half-orc ranger/barbarian I'm currently playing.)

[arguskos]

Bah. Horses are for short-tooths. Dire wolf.
So are dire wolves. What do Real MenTM ride? Smilodons. (Thanks to Frostburn, this is actually possible, and awesome.)

[Sarco_Phage]

So are dire wolves. What do Real MenTM ride? Smilodons. (Thanks to Frostburn, this is actually possible, and awesome.)

Aren't those things a size category larger than Large? Or is a 6 foot (at the shoulder) saber toothed cat still a Large creature?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Aren't those things a size category larger than Large? Or is a 6 foot (at the shoulder) saber toothed cat still a Large creature?

Nah, you'd use dire tiger stats for that.

[arguskos]

Aren't those things a size category larger than Large? Or is a 6 foot (at the shoulder) saber toothed cat still a Large creature?
They're Large, according to Frostburn. There's technically no rules for riding one, but if you could tame it (easily done thanks to magic and Handle Animal abuse), you should logically be able to ride it perfectly fine. In fact, I've got a smilodon-riding frost folk ranger coming up as a bad guy in my RL game (I wanted to give him a sugliin SO BAD it hurt, but it was kinda overkill).

[MarkusWolfe]

So are dire wolves. What do Real MenTM ride? Smilodons. (Thanks to Frostburn, this is actually possible, and awesome.)

You're both wrong. Real MenTM ride Grizzly Mastodons.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_67.jpg