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View Full Version : [D&D 3.5 PrC, PEACH!] The D'Avenant Archer



Derjuin
2011-04-01, 01:32 PM
Had this idea while looking through some old Magic: the Gathering cards, stuffed away in my closet. I wasn't much into the story of the game with the old cards (if there was one?), so most of the class's abilities relating to Avenant are made-up, and not at all based on anything from the game itself besides its flavor text. :smalltongue:

D'AVENANT ARCHER

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Perform (sing) or Perform (oratory) 9 ranks
Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd-level Arcane spells
Special: Bardic Music, Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC)

Class Skills
The D'Avenant Archer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge(Int) (All skills, taken separately), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha) and Use Rope (Dex).
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

Hit Dice: d8

D'AVENANT ARCHER
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|Bardic Music, Skirmisher|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Hail of Arrows|-

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|Manyshot|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|Charming the Arrow|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|Strafe|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+6|
+2|
+5|
+5|Enchanted Arrow|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

7th|
+7|
+2|
+5|
+5|Greater Manyshot|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+8|
+2|
+6|
+6|D'Avenant Anthem, Greater Hail of Arrows|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

9th|
+9|
+3|
+6|
+6|Bowrhythm|-

10th|
+10|
+3|
+7|
+7|Enchanted Strafe|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: The D'Avenant Archer does not gain any proficiencies.

Bardic Music: The D'Avenant Archer is a skilled archer and performer and continues to increase her musical ability. The D'Avenant Archer adds her Archer levels to her Bard levels to determine the number of times per day she may use her Bardic Music, and to determine when she gains higher bonuses for her Inspire Courage ability. If the Archer has Bardic Music but no Bard levels, she instead adds her Archer levels to the levels of the class that granted Bardic Music (or its equivalent) instead.

Skirmisher: The D'Avenant Archer excels at ranged combat and continues mastering the art of the skirmish. The D'Avenant Archer adds her Archer levels to her Scout levels to determine the bonus granted by her Skirmish ability. If the Archer has Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC or higher) but no Scout levels, she instead adds her Archer levels to the levels of the class that granted Skirmish instead.

Spontaneous Spellcasting: The D'Avenant Archer increases her spells per day, spells known (if applicable) and caster level of a single spontaneous Arcane spellcasting class she had before gaining levels in D'Avenant Archer at each level. If she has multiple Arcane spellcasting classes, she must choose one of them. If the D'Avenant Archer uses an ability other than Charisma to determine her spell DCs and bonus spells per day, she may instead use her Charisma if it is higher.

Hail of Arrows (Ex): During a performance, the Archer's reflexes and aim are enhanced, allowing her to fire several arrows at once. Beginning at 2nd level, during any Bardic Music song, the D'Avenant Archer is considered to be under the effects of a Haste spell for the duration of the song.

Manyshot (Ex): At 3rd level, the D'Avenant Archer gains the Manyshot feat as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites for it.

Charming the Arrow (Su): With the magic of poetry and music guiding her shot, the D'Avenant Archer becomes much more confident in her ability to place shots where they matter. Beginning at 4th level, the Archer adds her Charisma bonus to her attack bonus when using a Shortbow or Longbow, or the composite version of either, instead of her Dexterity bonus. In addition, the critical threat range of any shortbow or longbow, or the composite version of either, is increased by one step. This ability stacks with Improved Critical, but not other methods of increasing critical threat range.

Strafe (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, the D'Avenant archer can move while attacking, giving them unparalleled mobility and firepower. As a full-round action, the archer may move up to their speed and make a single ranged attack every 5 ft during that movement. Each of these attacks is made at the archer's highest attack bonus -2, and each gains skirmish damage (regardless of distance moved).

The archer may make use Strafe a number of times a day equal to 1/2 their ranks in the Perform skill used to qualify for D'Avenant archer.

Enchanted Arrow (Su): Weaving some of her magic into an arrow, the D'Avenant Archer gains the ability to both strike and cast at once. Beginning at 6th level, the Archer may, as a swift action during any Bardic Music song, enchant an arrow with a spell. She ignores any Verbal components of the spell automatically, but must complete the somatic and material components of the spell (unless she is able to ignore them as well, through feats, etc.). The Archer may enchant a single arrow at a time, and the enchantment lasts until discharged, when the arrow either hits its target or misses.

The Archer may only enchant arrows with abilities that target an area, or a single creature. If she enchants an arrow with an area spell, she must fire the arrow into a single square on the ground, not at a foe. If she fires her enchanted area spell arrow into a foe, its spell dissipates harmlessly. Missing a square on the ground does not cause the spell to dissipate, but it will cause the spell to be cast in a different area than the Archer intended.

If the Archer enchants an arrow with a spell intended for a single creature, she must hit a creature with that arrow or the spell dissipates. If she hits more than one creature in a round, the spell only applies to the creature struck by the Enchanted Arrow.

When discharged, the spell takes effect as if it had been cast on the creature or area struck. Use the Archer's caster level and abilities at the time of using Enchanted Arrow to determine the save DC, etc. for the spell.

Greater Manyshot: At 7th level, the D'Avenant Archer gains the Greater Manyshot feat as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites for it.

D'Avenant Anthem (Su): The greatest of the D'Avenant Archers learn and perform a special musical ability, called the D'Avenant Anthem. The D'Avenant Anthem has two parts the Verse, and the Chorus; when she begins her performance, the Archer chooses which part of the D'Avenant Anthem to sing. The D'Avenant Archer may switch between the Verse and the Chorus with a DC 30 Perform (sing) or Perform (oratory) check as a standard action. Beginning the Anthem does not require a check, but altering it does.

The Verse of the D'Avenant Anthem aids the Archer and her allies in striking from afar for as long as the Archer continues her song, allies that can hear her song have their precision damage ranges extended out to 100 feet, instead of 30.

The Chorus of the D'Avenant Anthem aids the Archer and her allies in hitting foes that would normally withstand such an assault. Allies that can hear her song may apply half of their precision damage dice against foes that are normally immune to it (such as undead, constructs or a creature with Heavy Fortification armor).

Greater Hail of Arrows (Ex): At 8th level, the D'Avenant Archer's Hail of Arrows ability further enhances her reflexes and aim: during any Bardic Music song, she still gains the effects of a Haste spell, but may also move up to her speed as a swift action instead of a move action for the duration of the song.

Bowrhythm (Su): At 9th level, the D'Avenant Archer's attacks are like a thing of poetry, and sing a song all their own. The Archer can use this song to continue their own; a D'Avenant Archer can, instead of concentrating on her song as a standard action, make a single or full attack and still maintain her song. She can do this once per song per day for every 5 ranks she has in Perform (sing) or Perform (oratory).

Enchanted Strafe (Ex): At 10th level, the D'Avenant archer can finally combine her twin arts, those of the Strafe and the Enchanted Arrow. Once per day, when making a Strafe, the D'Avenant archer may declare it to be an Enchanted Strafe. To do this requires the archer have an enchanted arrow on hand and use it in the attack. Every creature attacked in the Enchanted Strafe is affected by the enchanted arrow, as normal for being hit by an enchanted arrow. This consumes the arrow, as normal.

arguskos
2011-04-01, 03:29 PM
WARNING: What follows is... critical, but keep through it. There's something at the end that should explain everything and make you feel a mite bit better. :smallwink:

I have no idea why I'm bothering, since PrCs are not really my thing, but here we go. Let's take a crack at this.


D'AVENANT ARCHER

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Perform (sing) or Perform (oratory) 8 ranks
Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd-level Arcane spells
Special: Bardic Music, Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC)
Hey, look, prerequisites. Woo.

Note: The fastest possible entry is Scout 3/Bard 4, in that order (to back fill on your perform ranks). That's... really underwhelming. Also, your BAB and Perform ranks will be higher than required by the time you meet MINIMUM entry requirements. Was this intentional?


Class Skills
The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge(Int) (All skills, taken separately), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha) and Use Rope (Dex).
Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

Hit Dice: d8
You have skills and hit dice. Go you.


D'AVENANT ARCHER
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2|Bardic Music, Skirmisher|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3|Hail of Arrows|-

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+3|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+4|Charming the Arrow|-

5th|
+5|
+1|
+4|
+4|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

6th|
+6|
+2|
+5|
+5|Enchanted Arrow|-

7th|
+7|
+2|
+5|
+5|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

8th|
+8|
+2|
+6|
+6|D'Avenant Anthem, Greater Hail of Arrows|-

9th|
+9|
+3|
+6|
+6|-|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

10th|
+10|
+3|
+7|
+7|Strafe|-[/table]
Dude, you're killing me. 4 dead levels and half casting on a BARD entry?! If those class features don't make me literally cry tears of joy, this is a disaster. Let's hope and see.


Bardic Music: The D'Avenant Archer is a skilled archer and performer and continues to increase her musical ability. The D'Avenant Archer adds her Archer levels to her Bard levels to determine the number of times per day she may use her Bardic Music, and to determine when she gains higher bonuses for her Inspire Courage ability. If the Archer has Bardic Music but no Bard levels, she instead adds her Archer levels to the levels of the class that granted Bardic Music (or its equivalent) instead.

Skirmisher: The D'Avenant Archer excels at ranged combat and continues mastering the art of the skirmish. The D'Avenant Archer adds her Archer levels to her Scout levels to determine the bonus granted by her Skirmish ability. If the Archer has Skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC or higher) but no Scout levels, she instead adds her Archer levels to the levels of the class that granted Skirmish instead.
Ok, fine. This is a nice gish-like set of abilities. Of course, you're still blending two things that don't play that well together, but ok, this is a nice incentive to take the class.


Hail of Arrows (Ex): During a performance, the Archer's reflexes and aim are enhanced, allowing her to fire several arrows at once. Beginning at 2nd level, during any Bardic Music song, she gains the benefit of the Manyshot feat. Although she gains the benefit of the feat, she does not actually have the feat, and cannot use this ability to qualify for classes, feats, etc. that require the Manyshot feat.
...this is a worse bonus feat. Why didn't you just give them Manyshot?


Charming the Arrow (Su): With the magic of poetry and music guiding her shot, the D'Avenant Archer becomes much more confident in her ability to place shots where they matter. Beginning at 4th level, the Archer adds her Charisma bonus to her attack bonus when using a Shortbow or Longbow, or the composite version of either, if it is higher than her Dexterity bonus. In addition, the critical threat range of any shortbow or longbow, or the composite version of either, is increased by one step. This ability stacks with Improved Critical, but not other methods of increasing critical threat range.
Ok, your wording here is... really bad. You "add" your Cha bonus to attacks if (and only if) it is better than your Dex bonus? That means that draining Dex screws you twice? Are you sure this isn't meant to be either:
-A flat addition of Cha to attacks.
-Or a flat replacement of Dex by Cha for attacks.

As-is, it's not a bad ability, though nothing stellar (just Cha to attacks, with restrictions).


Enchanted Arrow (Su): Weaving some of her magic into an arrow, the D'Avenant Archer gains the ability to both strike and cast at once. Beginning at 6th level, the Archer may, as a swift action during any Bardic Music song, enchant an arrow with a spell. She ignores any Verbal components of the spell automatically, but must complete the somatic and material components of the spell (unless she is able to ignore them as well, through feats, etc.). The Archer may enchant a single arrow at a time, and the enchantment lasts until discharged, when the arrow either hits its target or misses.

The Archer may only enchant arrows with abilities that target an area, or a single creature. If she enchants an arrow with an area spell, she must fire the arrow into a single square on the ground, not at a foe. If she fires her enchanted area spell arrow into a foe, its spell dissipates harmlessly. Missing a square on the ground does not cause the spell to dissipate, but it will cause the spell to be cast in a different area than the Archer intended.

If the Archer enchants an arrow with a spell intended for a single creature, she must hit a single creature with that arrow or the spell dissipates.

When discharged, the spell takes effect as if it had been cast on the creature or area struck. Use the Archer's caster level and abilities at the time of using Enchanted Arrow to determine the save DC, etc. for the spell.
This is basically the Duskblade's Arcane Channel, but with a Bardic Music restriction on use and with a bit more openness of spell options. Cool, I can work with it. A few minor issues though. First, this screws Exit Wounds and Splitting, two of the best archery enchantments, really REALLY badly, due to your "single creature" limitation. Given that Exit Wounds and Splitting are probably better than anything you're putting in that arrow, this is an issue, and brings me to the second concern, your spell selection. What exactly on the bard list did you see as useful with this? :smallconfused:

Now, if this ability was the core ability of an Arcane Archer replacement, ok, we're in business! The ability itself has promise and is good, a ranged arcane channel, ok, I'm liking it. However, the lack of spells that would be worth a damn, your general lack of spells anyways, and the screwing over of the best archery abilities in the ENTIRE GAME is not worth it.


D'Avenant Anthem (Su): The greatest of the D'Avenant Archers learn and perform a special musical ability, called the D'Avenant Anthem. An Archer with at least 17 ranks in Perform (sing) or Perform (oratory) can assist the aim of her allies (including herself) in combat. The D'Avenant Anthem has two parts the Verse, and the Chorus; when she begins her performance, the Archer chooses which part of the D'Avenant Anthem to sing. The D'Avenant Archer may switch between the Verse and the Chorus as a standard action.
Minor note: ditch the "ranks in Perform" thing. It's flavorful and whatever, but just make it so you need to make a Perform check to do either part of the Anthem and call it done.


The Verse of the D'Avenant Anthem aids the Archer and her allies in striking from afar for as long as the Archer continues her song, allies that can hear her song have their precision damage ranges extended out to 100 feet, instead of 30.
Nice, if you have a party that needs it. Still, a unique effect, and that's worth something.


The Chorus of the D'Avenant Anthem aids the Archer and her allies in hitting foes that would normally withstand such an assault. Allies that can hear her song may apply half of their precision damage dice against foes that are normally immune to it (such as undead, constructs or a creature with Heavy Fortification armor).
Also a nice effect... except that anyone who cares has been doing this for 5 levels already (weapon crystals, ACFs, etc).


Greater Hail of Arrows (Ex): At 8th level, the D'Avenant Archer's Hail of Arrows ability further enhances her reflexes and aim: during any Bardic Music song, she instead gains the effects of the Greater Manyshot feat. As with Hail of Arrows, this ability does not actually confer the feat, and cannot be used to qualify for classes, etc. that require the feat.
As with Hail of Arrows, this is a bad bonus feat (ie. it's one that goes away). Why not just GIVE them Greater Manyshot?


Strafe (Ex): At 10th level, the D'Avenant Archer can unleash a flurry of arrows in a single moment. Once per day, the D'Avenant Archer can make a Full Attack as a Standard action.
CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP. Give this 5 levels earlier. You're not hurting anything by doing so. The real capstone here is


How does it seem? Too good, not good enough, too specific, too bland?
It's crap, but it's not a specificity issue (though Scout/Bard is... uh... pretty specific), but just a basic power level issue. As this stands, it's basically Arcane Archer-levels of use, and by the huge amounts of verbal fecal material that Arcane Archer gets tossed on it, you should understand the point here.

Now, I've been pretty mean. I'm a grinchy guy. However, allow me to say that there is some really beautiful stuff hidden here. The idea of a Scout/Bard is something I personally would never consider, and that makes this worth tinkering with until it works. The Enchanted Arrow and D'Avenant Anthem abilities are clever and quite interesting. My suggestion would be to give this at minimum 8/10 casting, fill in the dead levels, and make Enchanted Arrow and D'Avenant Anthem the stars of the show. Give them at levels 2 and 3 respectively, and focus the class around them. They're the unique abilities here, they need to sit in the spot-light. Perhaps the capstone could be combining them somehow (ie. you learn a new anthem that lets you make a super-arrow or something, iunno).

I am critical, but don't let that get you down. There's real beauty and potential here. Just needs some refining to get you there. :smallwink:

begooler
2011-04-01, 04:29 PM
I really like the combination of bard/scout, partly because they are both skilled classes with wildly different skill sets.
As previously mentioned, the spellcasting should be much more generous. A Scout 3/Bard 4 is going to have the ability to cast only 3rd level spells by the time she finishes this prestige class. That's less than a ranger, and (off the top of my head) the ranger has more spells that are helpful with archery.
I don't think it would be wrong to give full casting progression, but then you might want to limit it to 'bard spellcasting'

Strafe should definitely be accessible at a lower level. Also, the ability to use it more times per day based on expending uses of bardic music, or maybe for a number of rounds based on perform ranks. (Like a dervish.)
Think about some of the other methods by which scouts can get a full attack with skirmish damage. A dip in cleric gives them at least 20 rounds (1 minute at a time) of full attack with skirmish.

Evasion would be a nice thing to fill one of those dead levels.

Derjuin
2011-04-01, 04:43 PM
Warning: I'm nicer at the end too :smalltongue:


WARNING: What follows is... critical, but keep through it. There's something at the end that should explain everything and make you feel a mite bit better. :smallwink:

I have no idea why I'm bothering, since PrCs are not really my thing, but here we go. Let's take a crack at this.

Hey, look, prerequisites. Woo.

Note: The fastest possible entry is Scout 3/Bard 4, in that order (to back fill on your perform ranks). That's... really underwhelming. Also, your BAB and Perform ranks will be higher than required by the time you meet MINIMUM entry requirements. Was this intentional?

You have skills and hit dice. Go you.


Gotta have the boring stuff too.



Dude, you're killing me. 4 dead levels and half casting on a BARD entry?! If those class features don't make me literally cry tears of joy, this is a disaster. Let's hope and see.


Dead levels were to account for spellcasting level boosts, since it is, y'know, a full BAB archer that gets bardic music, spellcasting and skirmishing, all progressed. Then again, with Bard spells, they cap out at 6, so I think I will bump it up. Make it SOOOO GOOD, no bard would ever think of not taking it.



Ok, fine. This is a nice gish-like set of abilities. Of course, you're still blending two things that don't play that well together, but ok, this is a nice incentive to take the class.


You can sing Inspire Courage as a free action. Doesn't take much to keep it up.



...this is a worse bonus feat. Why didn't you just give them Manyshot?


Because flat bonus feats are boring? :smallwink:



Ok, your wording here is... really bad. You "add" your Cha bonus to attacks if (and only if) it is better than your Dex bonus? That means that draining Dex screws you twice? Are you sure this isn't meant to be either:
-A flat addition of Cha to attacks.
-Or a flat replacement of Dex by Cha for attacks.

As-is, it's not a bad ability, though nothing stellar (just Cha to attacks, with restrictions).


It's meant to replace Dex, IF your Dex is lower. So getting your Dex drained will let your Cha replace it if your Cha suddenly becomes higher. That and I figured being able to use a 17-20/x3 bow was pretty nice, versus a plain x3 bow.

And adding your Cha and your Dex to your ranged attacks seems ridiculous, but that's just me.



This is basically the Duskblade's Arcane Channel, but with a Bardic Music restriction on use and with a bit more openness of spell options. Cool, I can work with it. A few minor issues though. First, this screws Exit Wounds and Splitting, two of the best archery enchantments, really REALLY badly, due to your "single creature" limitation. Given that Exit Wounds and Splitting are probably better than anything you're putting in that arrow, this is an issue, and brings me to the second concern, your spell selection. What exactly on the bard list did you see as useful with this? :smallconfused:

Now, if this ability was the core ability of an Arcane Archer replacement, ok, we're in business! The ability itself has promise and is good, a ranged arcane channel, ok, I'm liking it. However, the lack of spells that would be worth a damn, your general lack of spells anyways, and the screwing over of the best archery abilities in the ENTIRE GAME is not worth it.


It lets you cast spells while using Bardic Music, something you can't normally do.



Minor note: ditch the "ranks in Perform" thing. It's flavorful and whatever, but just make it so you need to make a Perform check to do either part of the Anthem and call it done.


'Kay



Nice, if you have a party that needs it. Still, a unique effect, and that's worth something.

Also a nice effect... except that anyone who cares has been doing this for 5 levels already (weapon crystals, ACFs, etc).


Remember, you count as your own ally, and this makes it so people who get their sneak attacks/skirmishes/sudden strikes through classes other than those that have ACFs etc. to allow it can do their bonus damage.



As with Hail of Arrows, this is a bad bonus feat (ie. it's one that goes away). Why not just GIVE them Greater Manyshot?


Same as above, bonus feats are boring, but they will be more efficient. I think I will change both Hail of Arrows and Greater Hail of Arrows to be different and grant bonus feats and boring static abilities instead of the dead levels.



CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP. Give this 5 levels earlier. You're not hurting anything by doing so. The real capstone here is


Woops, worded it wrong. It'll be fixed, don't worry.



It's crap, but it's not a specificity issue (though Scout/Bard is... uh... pretty specific), but just a basic power level issue. As this stands, it's basically Arcane Archer-levels of use, and by the huge amounts of verbal fecal material that Arcane Archer gets tossed on it, you should understand the point here.


Arcane Archer is far worse, if I may say so - it doesn't have any spellcasting progression at all.



Now, I've been pretty mean. I'm a grinchy guy. However, allow me to say that there is some really beautiful stuff hidden here. The idea of a Scout/Bard is something I personally would never consider, and that makes this worth tinkering with until it works. The Enchanted Arrow and D'Avenant Anthem abilities are clever and quite interesting. My suggestion would be to give this at minimum 8/10 casting, fill in the dead levels, and make Enchanted Arrow and D'Avenant Anthem the stars of the show. Give them at levels 2 and 3 respectively, and focus the class around them. They're the unique abilities here, they need to sit in the spot-light. Perhaps the capstone could be combining them somehow (ie. you learn a new anthem that lets you make a super-arrow or something, iunno).

I am critical, but don't let that get you down. There's real beauty and potential here. Just needs some refining to get you there. :smallwink:

Why thank you :smallsmile: I will work on it, and its power level isn't quite what I would want it to be. I don't want it to be tier 1, or even 2. Tier 3 is what I am aiming for. As such, I was trying to make powerful abilities, but nothing that could end an entire encounter like a wizard can.


I really like the combination of bard/scout, partly because they are both skilled classes with wildly different skill sets.
As previously mentioned, the spellcasting should be much more generous. A Scout 3/Bard 4 is going to have the ability to cast only 3rd level spells by the time she finishes this prestige class. That's less than a ranger, and (off the top of my head) the ranger has more spells that are helpful with archery.
I don't think it would be wrong to give full casting progression, but then you might want to limit it to 'bard spellcasting'

Strafe should definitely be accessible at a lower level. Also, the ability to use it more times per day based on expending uses of bardic music, or maybe for a number of rounds based on perform ranks. (Like a dervish.)
Think about some of the other methods by which scouts can get a full attack with skirmish damage. A dip in cleric gives them at least 20 rounds (1 minute at a time) of full attack with skirmish.

Evasion would be a nice thing to fill one of those dead levels.

I'm thinking of placing bonus feats on the dead levels and making Strafe a lot more powerful. So far, the new Strafe is looking like it's going to take a use of Bardic Music to activate, last a number of rounds equal to your highest Perform rank, and let you make twice as many attacks as you normally would during a Full Attack, similar to what A Thousand Cuts does.

Edit: Updated. Feelings?

arguskos
2011-04-01, 05:05 PM
Dead levels were to account for spellcasting level boosts, since it is, y'know, a full BAB archer that gets bardic music, spellcasting and skirmishing, all progressed. Then again, with Bard spells, they cap out at 6, so I think I will bump it up. Make it SOOOO GOOD, no bard would ever think of not taking it.
Except that the casting is bad, skirmish is kinda meh, and bardic music is better if you just were a bard.

See, the issue with that logic is that your casting and bardic music would be better if you were a true bard, which is not somewhere you want to be.


Because flat bonus feats are boring? :smallwink:
And good. As it is, if you don't have a music use, you lose access to a feat that's part of a feat tax. I'd rather just take the damn feat and get it over with, so I always have it. Absolutely terrible. Please, just give them the feats.


It's meant to replace Dex, IF your Dex is lower. So getting your Dex drained will let your Cha replace it if your Cha suddenly becomes higher. That and I figured being able to use a 17-20/x3 bow was pretty nice, versus a plain x3 bow.
The crit range is a nice bonus, but the rest of the wording is ambiguous. Clarify it.


And adding your Cha and your Dex to your ranged attacks seems ridiculous, but that's just me.
It's really not. So you get a nice to-hit modifier. Ok, go you. Rapid Shot, Manyshot, etc will drain that nice to-hit modifier rapidly.


It lets you cast spells while using Bardic Music, something you can't normally do.
Subvocal Casting, a feat, lets you cast while singing.


Remember, you count as your own ally, and this makes it so people who get their sneak attacks/skirmishes/sudden strikes through classes other than those that have ACFs etc. to allow it can do their bonus damage.
Yes, you do. Also, weapon crystals continue to do this, but better, for cheaper, earlier. :smalltongue:


Same as above, bonus feats are boring, but they will be more efficient. I think I will change both Hail of Arrows and Greater Hail of Arrows to be different and grant bonus feats and boring static abilities instead of the dead levels.
That'd be amazing.


Woops, worded it wrong. It'll be fixed, don't worry.
Fixed to what? :smallconfused:


Arcane Archer is far worse, if I may say so - it doesn't have any spellcasting progression at all.
Yeah, I know. This is on the same level, as it stands.


Why thank you :smallsmile: I will work on it, and its power level isn't quite what I would want it to be. I don't want it to be tier 1, or even 2. Tier 3 is what I am aiming for. As such, I was trying to make powerful abilities, but nothing that could end an entire encounter like a wizard can.
You're not even close, for a few reasons.

1. JaronK's Tier System only applies to base classes. :smalltongue:

2. The PrC Tier System doesn't work that way. Instead, it ranks PrCs on a -2, -1, 0, +1, +2 scale. This is probably a -1 (it's weaker than a straight bard would be). If you want it to be a +1 (reasonable), you are going to need to make this strictly better than a bard of equal level.


I'm thinking of placing bonus feats on the dead levels and making Strafe a lot more powerful. So far, the new Strafe is looking like it's going to take a use of Bardic Music to activate, last a number of rounds equal to your highest Perform rank, and let you make twice as many attacks as you normally would during a Full Attack, similar to what A Thousand Cuts does.
Giving new abilities is far better than bonus feats.

EDIT:

Hail of Arrows (Ex): During a performance, the Archer's reflexes and aim are enhanced, allowing her to fire several arrows at once. Beginning at 2nd level, during any Bardic Music song, the D'Avenant Archer is considered to be under the effects of a Haste spell for the duration of the song.
Better. Makes far more sense.


Manyshot (Ex): At 3rd level, the D'Avenant Archer gains the Manyshot feat as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites for it.
Fine. Also, not on the table. May wish to correct that.


Strafe (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, the D'Avenant Archer learns techniques for attacking while running, catching some or all of her victims off-guard. For a number of rounds per day equal to the number of ranks invested in a Perform skill, the Archer may move and make a full attack at the same time. She must move at least 5 feet in between each attack. She still provokes attacks of opportunities from this movement, but can tumble during it to attempt to avoid such attacks.
The idea is solid, but the wording is... clumsy. Allow me to offer a different wording.



Strafe (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, the D'Avenant archer can move while attacking, giving them unparalleled mobility and firepower. As a full-round action, the archer may move up to their speed and make a single ranged attack every 5 ft during that movement. Each of these attacks is made at the archer's highest attack bonus -2, and each gains skirmish damage (regardless of distance moved).

The archer may make use Strafe a number of times a day equal to 1/2 their ranks in the Perform skill used to qualify for D'Avenant archer.


The idea here is to give them a unique and powerful attack form, with plentiful uses, but not too many that they do it constantly (since this can be really pretty good).


Greater Manyshot: At 7th level, the D'Avenant Archer gains the Greater Manyshot feat as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the prerequisites for it.
Good man.


Greater Hail of Arrows (Ex): At 8th level, the D'Avenant Archer's Hail of Arrows ability further enhances her reflexes and aim: during any Bardic Music song, she still gains the effects of a Haste spell, but may also move up to her speed as a swift action instead of a move action for the duration of the song.
Clean, elegant. I approve.


Enchanted Strafe (Ex): At 10th level, the D'Avenant Archer can unleash a flurry of enchanted arrows in a single moment. By expending an extra use of Bardic Music during a song, the Archer may split her Enchanted Arrow into several, allowing her to make a full attack with them. Each creature struck during a full attack made with Enchanted Strafe is subject to the same spell.
I really hate this, mostly because it has NOTHING to do with Strafe. If I might, allow me to offer an alternative (keyed off of the Strafe alternative presented above).


Enchanted Strafe (Ex): At 10th level, the D'Avenant archer can finally combine her twin arts, those of the Strafe and the Enchanted Arrow. Once/day, when making a Strafe, the D'Avenant archer may declare it to be an Enchanted Strafe. To do this requires the archer have an enchanted arrow on hand and use it in the attack. Every creature attacked in the Enchanted Strafe is affected by the enchanted arrow, as normal for being hit by an enchanted arrow. This consumes the arrow, as normal.

Derjuin
2011-04-01, 05:21 PM
stuff

also

Subvocal Casting, a feat, lets you cast while singing.

I'll use your wording of Strafe/Enchanted Strafe, they're much cleaner than mine.

I added a new ability to the table as well, for 9th level: Bowrhythm. Thoughts?

Regarding Subvocal Casting, I didn't even know that existed. Which book is it from? Yay google.

arguskos
2011-04-01, 05:30 PM
I'll use your wording of Strafe/Enchanted Strafe, they're much cleaner than mine.
Experience, my friend. I write a lot of stuff, though not as much as the great masters.


I added a new ability to the table as well, for 9th level: Bowrhythm. Thoughts?
Fine, if boring. I don't know how useful it'd be, but it's a nice benefit that I'm not entirely certain how to duplicate.


Regarding Subvocal Casting, I didn't even know that existed. Which book is it from? Yay google.
Apologies, I actually meant Melodic Casting (which lets you cast while singing at no penalty). Subvocal Casting is not a feat, Subsonics is, and it's not really relevant here (though it's nice, I guess).

begooler
2011-04-01, 07:38 PM
Bowrythm is a little bit underwhelming since the bard spell Harmonize let's you do basically that, but for a whole minute at a time. (The level 2 version lets you start bardic music as a move action, and the level 4 version lets you maintain bardic music as a move action.)
Also, if the bard has Lingering Song, this ability is pretty much useless, unless the bard is using it for an ability that is not affected by Lingering Song such as Spellbreaker Song or Countersong.

Edit: Ok, actually Bowrythm is better than Harmonize because you get to make a FULL attack while you concentrate instead of just a standard, but still, not very impressive since a bard can just take Lingering Song at first level.

Gray-Wolf666
2011-04-03, 06:56 PM
Nice, i think this works well.