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Psionic Dog
2011-04-01, 05:24 PM
Ok, so I was reading up on the 3.5e ride skill and realized that the rules as written appear to allow one to mount a creature, ride said creature at a run, and then dismount again at the end of the turn since move actions can be taken as normal while riding. Then I considered how using swift mount/dismounting (free actions) allowed this to be done multiple times, and realized the the rider is now as fast (or faster) than a commoner rail gun projectile. Then I did a cost comparison against using wizard teleportation services. Then I just had to share it. So without any further ado:

Quantum Pony Mule Express: DnD Style

Thank you for considering using the PsiDog transit chain between Generic_Metropolise and BigPort_City. As you may not know these communities are 150 miles apart, and Wizards Archane Taxi service charges 450 gp per teleport each way: A cost you will never again need to pay to transport yourself or your goods.

Using our extensive relay network of Magebred Swift Breed Mules the PsiDog Express is capable of sending cargo at speeds of Mach 134 to whisk passengers and cargo all 150 miles in 6 seconds flat! Not only that, but we make 25 trips each way twice daily. Using the standardized TypeII bags of holding and a Handy Harversack The PsiDog express can move 6.5 short tons of cargo in 15 minutes flat each way!

With nearly 50,000 lbs of cargo moved daily our service far outpaces the existing Ring Gate network, and at a mere 45 gp per Type II bag of holding our service is far cheaper than what those fancy PC's can bring themselves to accept. Travelers who are disinclined to spend the minimal 30 seconds as cargo within a bag for the trip (mostly loading and unloading time) may pay 200 gp to ride the network themselves, provided they can demonstrate their ability to swiftly mount and dismount a mule in even poor weather.

FAQs:
Q: How does the PsiDog Express work?
A: The PsiDog Express stations mounts every 160 ft. Our trained riders perform a swift mount, direct their steed to run to the next station, swiftly dismount, and repeat. The mounts are allowed to spend two rounds resting between sprints while packages are exchanged, and as everyone knows an alternating run and rest works out to a hustle, along the transit chain to operate for 30 minutes a day without harming the mules.

Q: How skilled are the riders?
A: Our riders are merely well trained ordinary people: there is no need to be a high level or have elite abilities. We employ two L2 human experts. Each expert has above average dexterity, animal affinity, top skill in both handle animal and riding, and wear spurs: Masterwork ride tools. This gives a ride modifier of +12 (+1 dex +5 ranks +2 synergy +2 animal affinity +2 circumstance.) By taking 10 our riders are capable of making the swift mount even in somewhat unfavorable conditions.

Q: Isn't that expensive?
A: We never said it was cheap. At 6,000 ft per mile in DnD land we need 375 mules every ten miles. The swift bred mules and saddles cost us 26 gp each, with a daily operating cost of 2sp per animal (5cp for feed, 1.5 sp for a semi-skilled animal handler hireling). The first 100 days of operation thus cost an average of 1,725 gp/mile. This gives 258,750 gp for the 150 mile transit chain, another 21,000 gp for the 3x bags of holding and 3x Handy Haversack. Wages for our two riders are nearly 630 gp over the 100 days, but only because we pay double what they could make if Ride was a recognized professional skill. Total 100 day operating cost: 280,380 gp.

Q: How can you afford to charge only 45 gp per bag?
A: Our mules are good for 100 trips each day, or 10,000 trips over 100 days. This means we need to earn only earn an average of 28 gp per trip to cover costs. 45 gp is somewhat less than the 100% profit standard of tradesmen, but given the quantity of business we don't mind. Plus, 1/10th the standard teleportation cost seemed like a good number, and we also make additional money each trip on small packages carried in the Harversack.

Q: Why a Type II bag of holding and not a Type III?
A: Medium and heavy loads have force a penalty on swift mounting/dismounting, so it's important for our riders to travel Light. Assuming an a Str of only 10 gives a 33 lb weight limit. 25 lbs for a Type II bag, 5 lbs for the Handy Harversack, and 1lb for the ride tool leaves our riders only 2 lbs for personal equipment. Granted, our riders all have a Str 11, but that's still not enough for a Type III bag.

Q: Can't wizards do it cheaper?
A: Depends, how many L17+ wizards do you know? Crafting two permanent deportation circles offical costs about 50,230 gp making it cheaper for any transit system lasting longer than 18 days, but spell worth 3,000 gp+ generally aren't available, and good luck finding a wizard willing to burn the 9,000 XP needed.

Middling wizards looking for cash, such as those working for the Wizards Archane Taxi service are capable of taking three passengers per casting and generaly charge 450 gp per trip. If we allow two passengers to be bag-boy goons carrying 15x as much as our light rider then to match our 10,000 trips in 100 days you would need to pay for 'only' 667 castings. Actually, since there is a 3% failure rate on teleports you would need 687 castings. At standard market pricing that comes out to 309,150 gp.

Q: Wouldn't commoners be cheaper?
A: Only in the short run. Commoners need a half-action to transfer a package between themselves, meaning they can only move 30 ft a round. The most efficient method is to Move(pick up object), Move Speed, Free (drop object), repeat. This requires a commoner every 40 ft, or 4x as many commoners as commoner/mule teams. Since the mule teams require 2sp/day, and 4 commoners require 4sp/day in the long run commoners will be more expensive. 'Long Run' = (cost of mule)/(extra daily price for commoners) = 130 days. Plus, our chain already requires 5,000+ commoners. If we used 20,000 commoners then our chain has a greater populations than the BigPort_City destination!

Q: Light Horses?
A: Mules are cheaper in the short run. For the 100 days considered light horses would have cost 2,100 gp/mile. Once again, 'Long Run' = (Light horse-mule)/(feed difference) = 460 days. A villan could trash the Mule Transit system every 6 months and leave us profitable, that's not possible with horses.

Q: Dogs?
A: I wish, goblin wolf-rider messengers sounds a lot better, but there are no prices for wolves, and riding dogs are slower and more expensive than light horses.


Excluding 9th level magics I believe the PsiDog transit chain is the fastest way to move goods (rapidly) between two points of moderate distance. As posted the chain is only running at 66% efficiency, since alternating running and resting for a hustle average should be as low as 1:1. The conservative 1:2 was partially just to give more time for loading/unloading of packages. At 1:1 running/resting 150 daily trips are possible, so the break even point against Teleporting Wizards occurs at about 250 miles. My system, however, uses only mundane animal mounts and L1/L2 NPCs no legendary PC's required.

So. 6.5+ short tons of cargo. 15 minutes. Each way. :smallcool:

Keld Denar
2011-04-01, 05:44 PM
I loled.

Amusing rule use. Kudos!

Moriato
2011-04-01, 06:06 PM
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that moving on your mount takes up your move action, and you can only fast mount/dismount while you have a move action remaining.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-04-01, 06:14 PM
I prefer skeletons passing items down the line. Much more expensive than yours but they can work all day and night every day and night. They need no upkeep, no wages, no food or drink or shelter. They just work.

At least semi-original, the FAQ format is nice and you did the maths so we don't have to. Good work.

The Glyphstone
2011-04-01, 06:34 PM
I prefer skeletons passing items down the line. Much more expensive than yours but they can work all day and night every day and night. They need no upkeep, no wages, no food or drink or shelter. They just work.

At least semi-original, the FAQ format is nice and you did the maths so we don't have to. Good work.

Skeletons only work for point-to-point transfer though - the PsiDog Express could easily be adapted to deliver between three or more cities with the addition of centralized dispatch points, whereas you would need n*2 additional lines of skeletons for each city you added to SkelEx's network, n = number of cities already serviced. SkelEx also breaks down entirely if a single skeleton is disabled or destroyed, whereas having to physically walk the 320ft. between non-adjacent mount stations will take the delivery person 3 rounds of flat-out run, only adding 24 seconds to the delivery time.

TheFallenOne
2011-04-02, 09:32 AM
nicely worked out

though I really should sue for copyright Psidog :smalltongue:

also, your math is slightly wrong. You can get away with 170 ft. between the mules. Run 160, dismount places you adjacent(+5 feet), close enough to mount the next mule. Add to that the 10 feet effective travel for the large size of each mount and you get 180 ft travel out of each one

Psionic Dog
2011-04-02, 09:51 AM
Maybe, but I believe I was the first in that thread to mention allowing a move action before and after a mounted run had broken potential. :smalltongue:

Would you settle for contributing member? :smallwink:


Good point on the distance. I was allowing some extra space to loosen tollerence requirments, but since this is a thought exercise moving it up to a mule ever 180 ft gives a 100 day cost of... 1533.4 gp/mile (11% cost reduction). If we neglect the magic bag/rider pay cost (since wizard taxi would probably need bags or additional spells too) then that pushes the break even point out to 294 miles.

TheFallenOne
2011-04-02, 10:11 AM
Maybe, but I believe I was the first in that thread to mention allowing a move action before and after a mounted run had broken potential. :smalltongue:

Would you settle for contributing member? :smallwink:

Ah, but it's still quite a leap from "move action after a mounted run" to my Instant Messenger System :smalltongue:

I'd settle for me being the clever, but market-skills lacking inventor, whose theoretic concepts got realized and expanded by the PsiCorp. I die a poor and bitter man, my dreams for a Nobel crushed by my failure to claim patents and copyright before offhand mentioning my ideas. The only thing to remember me is a small, honorary plaque in PsiCorp headquarters, lauding my progressive spirit without ever acknowledging my research laid the groundwork for Psicorp Enterprises. My heirs fight a decade-long legal battle for admission of my contributions, then settle out of court to avoid bankruptcy.

ScionoftheVoid
2011-04-02, 10:36 AM
Skeletons only work for point-to-point transfer though - the PsiDog Express could easily be adapted to deliver between three or more cities with the addition of centralized dispatch points, whereas you would need n*2 additional lines of skeletons for each city you added to SkelEx's network, n = number of cities already serviced. SkelEx also breaks down entirely if a single skeleton is disabled or destroyed, whereas having to physically walk the 320ft. between non-adjacent mount stations will take the delivery person 3 rounds of flat-out run, only adding 24 seconds to the delivery time.

True, skeletons are less effective. The saved costs can go toward keeping the line safe (for example, underground in narrow tunnels), but the horses are much better for anything but connecting two points. I just like undead.

Honestly, skeleton semaphore works better than skeleton delivery 'cause you can have them spaced wider and on towers to keep them safe and the lines clear. Not sure if it would be too complicated to have commands to have them turn to face different lines, allowing for a network rather than point-to-point lines, but it might be possible (zombies or large skeletons twisting the tower base on certain commands, perhaps?).

The Glyphstone
2011-04-02, 10:56 AM
Ah, but it's still quite a leap from "move action after a mounted run" to my Instant Messenger System :smalltongue:

I'd settle for me being the clever, but market-skills lacking inventor, whose theoretic concepts got realized and expanded by the PsiCorp. I die a poor and bitter man, my dreams for a Nobel crushed by my failure to claim patents and copyright before offhand mentioning my ideas. The only thing to remember me is a small, honorary plaque in PsiCorp headquarters, lauding my progressive spirit without ever acknowledging my research laid the groundwork for Psicorp Enterprises. My heirs fight a decade-long legal battle for admission of my contributions, then get Mindraped into forgetting about everything by the hired wizards on staff with PsiCorp. The plaque is removed, and no one, not even my descendants, so much as knows I existed.

Hopefully, not fixed for you.:smallbiggrin:

Glimbur
2011-04-02, 11:00 AM
What defines a mount? If we can use a wooden horse type thing, then we could instead make a line of wooden horses which are swift mounted and swift dismounted to transit messages and riders at arbitrary speeds. This also has the advantage of actually being RAW legal if you use real mounts:
Fast Mount or Dismount

You can attempt to mount or dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check, mounting or dismounting is a move action. You can’t use fast mount or dismount on a mount more than one size category larger than yourself.

From the Rules of the Game article and others, it appears that your mount taking a move action does not cost you a move action. You are unable to full attack due to a separate rule. Therefore the mule train works. Learn something new every day.