Building w/ Dragonwrought

[Tokuhara]

Hey y'all. I have to build an ECL 5 character, and I came across the Dragonwrought Kobold and fell in love. My question is what class combo should I do?

[Fearan]

Pun-Pun.
Or, failing that, Sorc/Incantantrix/Force Missle Mage

[Lateral]

ANYTHING.

Okay, really now. Are you planning to go Ancient for the cheese, or not?

[Cog]

Cloistered Cleric perhaps makes the most use of it. Kobold dexterity and size helps with the armor restriction, and you use Int for skillmonkeying, Wis for spells, and Cha for turning uses.

Dragonwrought can either be really cheesy or just give a little boost, depending on the class you use it with. For something still potent but a little more group-friendly, I like swordsage.

[gomipile]

I recommend bard, with Dragonfire Inspiration. Extra points if you change the damage type from fire to sonic.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) doesn't get a Con penalty.

The Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) gives you +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting ability.

Dragonwrought makes your type Dragon and you use age categories, thus you meet all the criteria to be considered a true dragon. You don't take physical ability score penalties for aging, so you can start out venerable and get +3 Int, Wis, and Cha for no drawback.

The Loredrake archtype detailed in Dragons of Eberron gives you another +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability. It has drawbacks, such as reducing your racial hit die size which you have none of anyway, and you lose any ability to learn cleric spells as sorcerer spells which you never had to begin with. These drawbacks will typically be a cost to most creatures which qualify for it, but for a dragonwrought kobold it happens to have no cost at all.

The Spellhoarding disorder and accompanying template in Dragon issue 313 trades any Sorcerer spellcasting ability for Wizard spellcasting of equal level. It gives Int +2, Wis -4, and +5 Spellcraft, with Scribe Scroll and Eschew Materials as bonus feats for no level adjustment. Instead of writing your spells in a book they're written on your scales, referred to as a spellhoard, so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You can expend spells from your spellhoard to substitute the costly material components or xp costs of your spells. You can also expend spells from your spellhoard to cast them as though from a scroll. Any spell you counterspell can be placed directly into your spellhoard. You can scribe the same spells onto your scales multiple times to fuel these abilities, so time is the only limit to these resources.

If you're going to use Spellhoarding, use the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) variant along with the Stalwart Sorcerer variant in Complete Mage. These reduce your Sorcerer spells known and spells/day, but that gets traded out for Wizard spellcasting of equal level so there's no drawback.

That's a Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. It gets Wizard spellcasting equal to its Sorcerer level +3, Str -4, Dex +2, Int +5, Wis -3, Cha +3, +1 natural armor, and no level adjustment. Be sure to include one level of Wizard if you want to specialize, and use the Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) variant to get something like Improved Initiative or Improved Toughness, or one of the Specialist ACFs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) that replaces Scribe Scroll, since Spellhoarding already grants it as a bonus feat. With two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) you can go Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 9/ Abjurant Champion 5, then maybe finish Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1, and have 20th level spellcasting and +19 BAB at level 20.

[Lateral]

...If you want to be hit on the head with the DMG.

Okay, in all seriousness, that's perfectly valid and you're welcome to do that if you like, but run it past your DM first. He might object. Dragonwrought Kobold can be done less ridiculously optimizedly, though, by... pretty much not being an Ancient Loredrake with Draconic Rite of Passage. They can get a bunch of natural weapons with a couple feats, which is good for classes with extra damage dice or something.

[TroubleBrewing]

I've heard tales of the shenanigans before, but I've never seen them spelled out so clearly before. Well done.

[RaginChangeling]

...If you want to be hit on the head with the DMG.

Okay, in all seriousness, that's perfectly valid and you're welcome to do that if you like, but run it past your DM first. He might object. Dragonwrought Kobold can be done less ridiculously optimizedly, though, by... pretty much not being an Ancient Loredrake with Draconic Rite of Passage. They can get a bunch of natural weapons with a couple feats, which is good for classes with extra damage dice or something.

With the races of the Dragon Web Enhancement, Kobolds get 2 claws and a bite. You can pick up a tail for a feat, and wings as well but you'd have to find some way to make yourself large before that really becomes useful.

Kobold as a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian/Scout charge skirmisher can do decently, especially if you can also add that Barbarian Rage variant that adds to dex instead of strength and get Shadow Blade with martial study+stance or dipping into swordsage. As a Dragon you also qualify for Rapidstrike, so your four natural attacks can all hit multiple times. You could also pull off some Totemist shenanigens as well.

[LOTRfan]

Where can Rapidstrike be found?

[RaginChangeling]

Where can Rapidstrike be found?

Draconomicon.

[Cog]

With the races of the Dragon Web Enhancement, Kobolds get 2 claws and a bite. You can pick up a tail for a feat, and wings as well but you'd have to find some way to make yourself large before that really becomes useful.
Note that given the first-level only restriction on some of these feats, you'll need at least one flaw to pull this off.

[RaginChangeling]

Note that given the first-level only restriction on some of these feats, you'll need at least one flaw to pull this off.

They have an explicit clause that a Dragonwrought can take them at level 3, but yeah. That build requires about five extra feats to actually do everything I was talking about, and wouldn't even really come online until about level 9 or 12.

[Cog]

They have an explicit clause that a Dragonwrought can take them at level 3, but yeah. That build requires about five extra feats to actually do everything I was talking about, and wouldn't even really come online until about level 9 or 12.
Only the wings feat has that clause; the tail feat doesn't. Even if it did, though, you still only get one feat at third level, so you'd need the flaw anyway.

[Aspenor]

Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) doesn't get a Con penalty.

The Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) gives you +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting ability.

Dragonwrought makes your type Dragon and you use age categories, thus you meet all the criteria to be considered a true dragon. You don't take physical ability score penalties for aging, so you can start out venerable and get +3 Int, Wis, and Cha for no drawback.

The Loredrake archtype detailed in Dragons of Eberron gives you another +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability. It has drawbacks, such as reducing your racial hit die size which you have none of anyway, and you lose any ability to learn cleric spells as sorcerer spells which you never had to begin with. These drawbacks will typically be a cost to most creatures which qualify for it, but for a dragonwrought kobold it happens to have no cost at all.

The Spellhoarding disorder and accompanying template in Dragon issue 313 trades any Sorcerer spellcasting ability for Wizard spellcasting of equal level. It gives Int +2, Wis -4, and +5 Spellcraft, with Scribe Scroll and Eschew Materials as bonus feats for no level adjustment. Instead of writing your spells in a book they're written on your scales, referred to as a spellhoard, so there's no risk of losing a spellbook. You can expend spells from your spellhoard to substitute the costly material components or xp costs of your spells. You can also expend spells from your spellhoard to cast them as though from a scroll. Any spell you counterspell can be placed directly into your spellhoard. You can scribe the same spells onto your scales multiple times to fuel these abilities, so time is the only limit to these resources.

If you're going to use Spellhoarding, use the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) variant along with the Stalwart Sorcerer variant in Complete Mage. These reduce your Sorcerer spells known and spells/day, but that gets traded out for Wizard spellcasting of equal level so there's no drawback.

That's a Venerable Spellhoarding Dragonwrought Desert Kobold Loredrake, Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. It gets Wizard spellcasting equal to its Sorcerer level +3, Str -4, Dex +2, Int +5, Wis -3, Cha +3, +1 natural armor, and no level adjustment. Be sure to include one level of Wizard if you want to specialize, and use the Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) variant to get something like Improved Initiative or Improved Toughness, or one of the Specialist ACFs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) that replaces Scribe Scroll, since Spellhoarding already grants it as a bonus feat. With two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) you can go Stalwart Battle Sorcerer 4/ Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) 9/ Abjurant Champion 5, then maybe finish Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1, and have 20th level spellcasting and +19 BAB at level 20.


I've heard tales of the shenanigans before, but I've never seen them spelled out so clearly before. Well done.

It's too bad that pretty much all of it is highly debatable as RAW, and no remotely intelligent DM would ever allow any of it. Dragonwroguht Kobolds do not qualify as true dragons. Dragonwrought Kobolds do not qualify for Loredrake. Loredrake does not advance wizard spellcasting from Spellhoarding.

I'm not getting into a debate about it, because people hold on desperately to things like this, and it gets ugly. Saying that it is absolutely RAW that any of this is true is false.

[Tyndmyr]

It's too bad that pretty much all of it is highly debatable as RAW, and no remotely intelligent DM would ever allow any of it. Dragonwroguht Kobolds do not qualify as true dragons. Dragonwrought Kobolds do not qualify for Loredrake. Loredrake does not advance wizard spellcasting from Spellhoarding.

I'm not getting into a debate about it, because people hold on desperately to things like this, and it gets ugly. Saying that it is absolutely RAW that any of this is true is false.

Oh, not this old chestnut again. No, it's RAW that kobolds are true dragons. It's probably even RAI. Never assume that just because it's a bad idea, it can't possibly be legal.

The requirements for loredrake are only "spellcasting ability" and being a true dragon(actually, might just be dragon. Don't have DoE with me atm. Regardless, DW Kobold qualifies). The only real objection I can see here is possibly the exact order of things. I'd have to doublecheck that. Regardless, a DW kobold is a true dragon from birth. I don't see anything inherently problematic with using it for templates.

Loredrake advances Sorc casting. You would presumably take Spellhoarding afterward to get the stacking right, if spellhoarding is desired. So far as I am aware, there is no rule that prohibits adding templates in this order. Given that spellhoarding is an acquired template, I don't really see how you could even object to it being picked up due to order. However, it's not actually necessary for a Dragonwrought kobold to be filled with juicy goodness.

[Aspenor]

Oh, not this old chestnut again. No, it's RAW that kobolds are true dragons. It's probably even RAI. Never assume that just because it's a bad idea, it can't possibly be legal.

It is also RAW that they are not. Also, the logic that is utilized to have them be true dragons results in numerous contradictions with existing rules, whereas the interpretations that result in them not being true dragons have none.

Like I said, people are set in their ways. Whether it's a bad idea or not is irrelevant to my point: RAW, Dragonwrought Kobolds are not true dragons. RAW, they also ARE true dragons, but the logic required to get them to be results in many problematic contradictions.

Which interpretation of the rules is better? One that results in contradictions with other rules, or the one that does not? If you say "the one that results in numerous contradictions with existing rules," I have to question your motivation for such a statement.

[Tokuhara]

I just want to be a powerful spellcaster, not an uber-gish, though my DM insists on me tanking... He allows anything from the books and belives that Kobolds are all weaklings. I intend to prove him wrong.

I like the Stalwart Sorcerer and was planning on taking up Loredrake and being Venerable (thus "great wyrm") (he approved it), but the spellhoarder is out, since its Dragon Magazine. He however allows Dragon Magazine Compendium

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Don't go Stalwart or Battle Sorcerer if you're not going Spellhoarding. Use some combination of Mirror Image and Wings of Cover (Races of the Dragon) to "tank" if you must... that is, if you don't want to be a gish. Just the fact that you can spam Slow at level 4 and Black Tentacles at level 6 should be enough to make you vastly overpowered.

If you want additional cheese, pump your will save, get Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness), and learn Celerity (Player's Handbook II). Double your action economy by casting celerity before your turn, or utilize the immediate action like normal when needed. In this case you don't need Wings of Cover. Also, the runestaff (Magic Item Compendium) is your friend. Heart of Air, Water, Earth and Fire (all in Complete Mage) make for a very thematic custom runestaff. Read MiC's blip about custom runestaves, then ask your GM.