(3.5) New feat

[Goonthegoof]

Feat Tax [General]

Benefit: Pick any three feats. You are now considered to possess these feats when determining if you qualify for prestige classes and other feats.

Balanced?

[Darth Stabber]

Love it, put it on some bonus feat lists and it's even better. Spring attack becomes more viable. It would also be the 3rd feat I know of that you should always take over dodge if you need dodge for something. The only downside is it renders fighter moot.

Now if you could brew a skill trick that counts as skill prerequisites, prestigeclass math gets really easy.

[Veklim]

Unless you put it on the fighter bonus list too...?
Dodge, Mobility & Spring Attack for an early and affordable whirlwind anyone?

[The Dark Fiddler]

You should probably mention that you have to meet the prerequisites for the feats you choose to be able to be treated as having (wow, could that phrase be any more awkward?).

[Goonthegoof]

No, I deliberately left that part out.

[Welknair]

Now if you could brew a skill trick that counts as skill prerequisites, prestigeclass math gets really easy.


I'd advise against that, as the skill reqs are one of the primary things limiting many PrCs to Level 6+.


As for this feat itself, I agree with the previous suggestion of needing the requirements for the previous feats. You need to do something such that fighters don't lose one of their only selling points.

[Thugorp]

actually I agree with dark fiddler, putting the, pre-req clause in allows this to be EXTREMELY useful as a tree builder(be cause it can be used to get its own feat's pre-requs. or just to allow you to take toughness, dodge and imp. unarmed. without trouble either way it's still useful for the original task but puts a effeminate limit to disallow breakage.(imagine what the PUN PUN craftsmen could do with three unrestricted feet qualifications).

[Noxsis]

long live PUN PUN

[Thugorp]

lol ya I wrote a short story about his assention for a class once. :-)

[Noxsis]

now only if they could develop a method for making a pun pun of any race

[Realms of Chaos]

No, I deliberately left that part out.

I can understand with having this substitute for feats that are only ever useful for meeting prerequisites, you're talking about letting players qualify for feats and PrCs earlier than designers judged players should have access to them.

The designers weren't always right about this type of thing but there can still be some problems.

[Goonthegoof]

The designers always use skill ranks, BAB or spellcasting for prestige entry. Typically having a feat early won't let you get in early.

[DracoDei]

I am going to add my voice to those saying that you should have to meet the requirements for the three feats. You should, of course, be able to use the first one to qualify for the second two, and both the first and second for the third.

[Das Beeg Kabooa]

"Did you pass the physical examination?"

"No, but here's a note saying I probably could have."

"Huh. Ok, psyche eval?"

"The other me says I'm good to go."

"Check. Last one, but this is important. Are you able to wield that weapon with precision, have spent years developing a keen sense essentially extending yourself through it?"

"No, but I did watch some Kung Fu movies that used this weapon in it."

"Well damn, son, that's better than the bloke who walked in here knowing NOTHING. Here's your prestige class, your bonus feat, and a hot tavern wench."

[Elfstone]

Yes^

Feat is a pretty good idea.

[Thugorp]

I am going to add my voice to those saying that you should have to meet the requirements for the three feats. You should, of course, be able to use the first one to qualify for the second two, and both the first and second for the third.

:thumbsup:


"Did you pass the physical examination?"

"No, but here's a note saying I probably could have."

"Huh. Ok, psyche eval?"

"The other me says I'm good to go."

"Check. Last one, but this is important. Are you able to wield that weapon with precision, have spent years developing a keen sense essentially extending yourself through it?"

"No, but I did watch some Kung Fu movies that used this weapon in it."

"Well damn, son, that's better than the bloke who walked in here knowing NOTHING. Here's your prestige class, your bonus feat, and a hot tavern wench."

you deserve a cookie, this is hilarious.

[Nero24200]

How would this feat work with feats which don't work as intended without their requisite feats (such as Greater Two Weapon Fighting)?

[Benly]

The problem with skipping prereqs for these purposes is that some feats and PrCs explicitly state their "nested" prerequisites and some don't, which will cause this feat to apply inconsistently.

My recommendation would be for this feat to allow you to select feats you don't presently qualify for but you aren't considered to have them as virtual feats until you meet their prerequisites (either genuinely or with other virtual feats).

[Sacrieur]

Prerequisites exist to help balance and to show a natural progression. It's not like you can pick up a clarinet for the first time ever in your life and play flight of the bumblebee, you have to work up to it.

"Wait, so let me get this straight, so you've never heard of this weapon before, but it's your specialty?"

---

Yes there are lots of just horrible feats, like toughness. But allowing you to skip feats like weapon specialization to get to the good stuff doesn't fix anything.

[Thugorp]

This feat could possibly represent the rare natural prodigy. That said, I am not sure I would allow my players to use this. I DO think it is ballanced(as long as they must meet prereques...) and it COULD be fit in flavor wise... I would probably only allow it on a case by case basis though and then only if they could give an in game reason for having it.

On the other hand if there was a good in game explanation and the feats they wanted weren't unresonable I would be willing to let it in so... it sounds like a resonable feat I guess.

[Das Beeg Kabooa]

I think the main opposition is that even for a prodigy or another RP-fit for this feat, it's still essentially a 3 in 1, especially if the 3 are considered weak enough that completely overshooting actually taking them for the prize feat / desired combo.

Not having the actual benefit of the feat is only a balancing act if you actually want the feat in the first place.

If anything, you could make it so it was only selectable at Character Level 1, along with other such "Power comes at a price" options. If you're that hurting for feats, you're clearly not hurting elsewhere, and that should be where the drawback for the free power comes from.

Maybe a caster loses spell slots. They're so prodigal, they see far less reason for them to study. Sure they can maximize any spell by also quickening it in some wierd loophole of arcane rules, but they aren't going to cram for an exam they're going to pass anyways.

A fighter that only takes pride in her capability with a warhammer loses out on her already pitiful skill point count? Or maybe her first couple bonus feats?

It's a tough call. In some ways, some feats do feel like they're just stepping stones to that one prize, but the answer to that probably isn't circumventing the system so much as adding some homebrewed alterations to the feats no one but the obscure, double bladed sword, Fighter/Rogue/Ninja Owlbear Halfling Darth Hooter would ever think about slotting.

[Thugorp]

I sort of disagree here, feast are suposed to be as good as class abilities. We know this because there is a class based SOULY around them. Now class abilities very in strength, no doubt; but, here is the thing, there is such a thing as alternate abilities and even replacement levels. So, what is wrong with a replacement feat?

I will grant you that normally replacement abilities are about one to one... fine. But here's the diff. This replacement feat is a non-replacement feat, that is to say, you give up a feat and in return you don't get anything. It isn't that you are giving up the abilityies that come with dodge, improved unarmed, and toughness(no one cares about that), it's that you are giving up what ever GOOD feat you would betaking instead(plus you wont gain the benifits of those three feats) so, yes, you louse one feat slot, 4 feat abilities, AND have to go 6 hole levels with out a new feat ability(unless your a fighter) your benifit? One feat 3 level's earlyer than normal and 2 spare slots.

That seems fair to me(if the flavor works... I love role playing though).

[Das Beeg Kabooa]

You're giving up 1 feat slot to skip other feat slots. So far the feat still doesn't have any other penalty than not actually having the bonuses of those feats.

(Which again, is a minimal balance check if you don't want those feats anyways, but want the feat/class it could lead to.)

The class based solely around feats is, to my understanding, a complete joke 95% of the time barring the few, obscure feat builds that serve a unique niche, like the chain whip spring attack fighter or something.

Which again, doesn't stop him from failing a will save and then being coup de grace'd by an Elf Wizard for insult. (Can they do that? I think so.)

So take Human Anything. 1 feat for first level, 1 feat for being human.

You spend that first feat on something good.
You spend the next feat on this replacement feat and get 3 really awful feats that are all pre-reqs to something you want.

Lost: 1 feat.
Gained: 3 really bad but necessary feats.
Net gain: 2 feats.

It might as well be called "Feat: Lighten Pre-Requisites."

This feat is actually at its worse when you ~choose good feats~. When you choose good feats you would have gotten anyways on the way to the feat / class you want, you don't get anything for them. This feat is like the charisma of your Fighter's stats.

It's the dump feat. You use this feat to get two net extra feats that you use on terrible feats so you can get another good feat or a prestige class.

[Thugorp]

o.k. you don't get three feets, in fact you DON'T get three feats, you litterally have a feat that allows you to go without feats for 6 levels. and in exchange you don't have to wait as long, to get a good feat. Thats really all it is. The thing is, Dodge and improved unarmed, they don't actually suck. They are not bad. WHAT THEY ARE, is not as good as most other feats(the same can be said for the Comp. Arcane feats that give you sp.s). The fact is that this feats allows you to eventually get better stuff later for giveing up moderat now, AND complietly giving up your current feat slot. It also(and the reason to take it) lets you gain something about 3 levels early.