Razors as Kukris?

[sengmeng]

My campaign world has cultists who prefer to use weapons with a basis in tools, such as sickles, scythes, possibly cleavers, and definitely razors. I am thinking of having razors have the stats of a kukri, but I'm wondering if I should have regular kukris in the game at all? How would you treat razors as weapons, without just calling them improvised? And if large numbers of people are using razors as weapons, and I make them statistically identical to kukris, should I just get rid of kukris?

[Ashtagon]

Well, a kukri actually is a tool. But it's not used as a razoe, never was. In fact, due to the design of the blade, it'd be rather foolhardy to use it as a razor (traditional "cut-throat" razors had back-curved blades, to allow space for the user's hand; kukri have forward-curved blades).

As a tool, it s most commonly used as a machete. Maybe that's a base from which to work?

Any blade small enough to be useful as a razor would have the stats of a knife at best.

[Spiryt]

Any blade small enough to be useful as a razor would have the stats of a knife at best.

Pretty much this,


How would you treat razors as weapons, without just calling them improvised?

Calling them improvised is the best way to do it, as fighting anything relatively dangerous to you with a razor would a female dog to say at least.

If you want to give them kukri stats, that could work quite well, some penalty to attack, such as improvised quality would work just OK.

[Sarco_Phage]

You might want to reflect the Razor's relative delicacy and sharpness. Because of its length and the means of attack, I'd say giving them a baseline -1 to hit, but increasing their crit.

Basically they'd be restatted 3.5 daggers. They'd still have the +2 to Sleight of Hand checks for concealment.



Weapon Cost DMG(S) DMG(M) Crit Weight Type

Razor 1gp 1d3 1d4 18-20/x2 1/2 lb Slashing

[sengmeng]

LOL, I'm not suggesting anyone ever shaved with a kukri, just that I was wondering if you ignore its status as an improvised weapon, what should I do with razors to make my cultists effective if that's all they have? should it be 1d3 18-20/x2, or equivalent to a kukri, or equivalent to a dagger, or what? What is the stats on a knife? is it a d3? I was thinking of having both kukris and razors, and giving my cultists the special ability to use a razor as if it was a kukri, while anyone else would be stuck with treating it as an improvised weapon. I want a lunatic with a razor who's actually dangerous.

[Sarco_Phage]

Oh, if you want that, then take the above stats for the Razor and increase the crit to x3. Things are sharp, just pretend it reflects severing an artery in the armpit, thigh, or neck or something.

[sengmeng]

I think if I made it have all the stats of a kukri, plus the +2 to sleight of hand of a dagger, made it 1 gp and 1/2 a pound as suggested, it could be worthwhile to make it an exotic weapon to reflect the difficulty in using such a short weapon in combat. So, if some random shlub picks it up, he'll have the -4 to hit from non-proficiency, which is equivalent to using an improvised weapon, and it takes a feat to use it right, which only my crazy cultists would do. I think that wraps it up... any suggestions for cleaver stats? I think the sica weapon is about the same.

Hmm, so an exotic weapon with +2 to sleight of hand checks to conceal it and:
{table]dmg (S)|dmg (M)|crit
1d3|1d4| 18-20/x3 [/table]

[Sarco_Phage]

In terms of size, a cleaver is basically a hand axe with more blade than haft and less weight behind it.

[sengmeng]

Here's some of the lunatics in question:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193602

[Ashtagon]

LOL, I'm not suggesting anyone ever shaved with a kukri, just that I was wondering if you ignore its status as an improvised weapon, what should I do with razors to make my cultists effective if that's all they have? should it be 1d3 18-20/x2, or equivalent to a kukri, or equivalent to a dagger, or what? What is the stats on a knife? is it a d3? I was thinking of having both kukris and razors, and giving my cultists the special ability to use a razor as if it was a kukri, while anyone else would be stuck with treating it as an improvised weapon. I want a lunatic with a razor who's actually dangerous.

D&D stats for knives are in various 3pp books. It's basically a dagger that does 1d3 slashing damage and has no thrown range. That's about as good as you'll get for a razor. A razor built purely as a razor would be an improvised knife. I can imagine razors built to combat standards, which would have the same basic stats, but not suffer any penalties for being improvised.

Note that even a razor can be used to commit a coup de grace. Also, realistically (although not in the rules) a knife to the throat against a helpless foe is fatal, regardless of hit points remaining.

[sengmeng]

D&D stats for knives are in various 3pp books. It's basically a dagger that does 1d3 slashing damage and has no thrown range. That's about as good as you'll get for a razor. A razor built purely as a razor would be an improvised knife. I can imagine razors built to combat standards, which would have the same basic stats, but not suffer any penalties for being improvised.

Note that even a razor can be used to commit a coup de grace. Also, realistically (although not in the rules) a knife to the throat against a helpless foe is fatal, regardless of hit points remaining.

Thanks, but I think I'm going to just make it an exotic weapon; essentially you spend a feat to overcome all the problems you've laid out: it's not balanced right, it's small, etc. It would take special training to be as dangerous with a razor as a typical weapon. I don't like the idea that it's just an improvised weapon; so is a broken beer bottle, and it should obviously be superior to that. Making it an exotic weapon means that most people will still be ineffective with it, but not my crazy cultists who train to overcome its deficiencies as a weapon.

[Thugorp]

I actually think that a razor should probably do more like 1d3 Med and 1d2 small. Consider that the wounds dealt by a razor would not be very painful when compared to any sort of duller knife, would bleed less, heal quicker, and be easier to tend. Plus from what I have seen in various equipment books is that knifes smaller than daggers usually do 1d3 anyway. :-)

To be clear this has no effect on how well you could attack with the thing, just how much damage you could deal with even the most well aimed attack(except a coupe de grase which I usually just allow to be fatal)