Much MUCH help needed! [4e]

[Flail_master]

Hey guys, its been a while,
so basically, i'm starting a 4th edition campaign, first ever one at that, and there are some things i need help with.

- First off, I'm going to try and use the Forgotten Realms setting since I've been told it's rather good, and as such, i have got a map of it and all of that, i just wanna know if there are any major things i should DEFINITELY know about FR and the such that would be pivotal or needed in running a game in this setting? i have the forgotten realms book, but there is a lot of stuff there, and most of it seems to be details on towns, which i can read as i go. Or can i just run this campaign with just the map and not give a damn?

- Secondly! one of my players is a Drow, and as such, I am now interested in the underdark and the such, and have the book "underdark". what i need to know is WHERE THE HELL IS THE UNDERDARK ON THE MAP OF FAERUN!? i cant find it anywhere, or i keep missing it, can you get to it from any cave?
and also, what is the composition of the underdark in terms of levels? Because I've looked at one or two sources which say there is the 'upperdark' 'middledark' and 'lowerdark', but the sourcebook of the underdark seems to have more, and completely different areas, does the sourcebook refer to the underdark in general throughout all settings? or specifically Forgotten realms?

- Thirdly, making encounters and the such for 4th edition seems easy enough, i've been reading the core books like a maniac, and pretty much have the hang of it, but I am not completely confident in my skills in writing yet, or rather, I'm yet to come up with anything and i wanna start running this soon because I am sooooo up for running it! Does anybody know where i can find a free source of one-shot/one session pre-written games? for level 1-2 players, like even just something like "kobolds there! loose reason for a quest! GO DO!!!!" would be good (well not those exact words of course :smalltongue:) I'd like to run one or two preset sessions first to get the feel of 4th edition before I start creating my own story (when I have the idea of course)

- Lastly, maybe some help with some plots which would be engaging would be nice :smallsmile:, I'm not too concerned about originality, i just want it to be fun and interesting! :smallbiggrin:

much thanks in advance playground :smallbiggrin:

[tcrudisi]

#1 No real tips from me. You can run it without the book just fine, but it might be easier to avoid some of the "new DM" traps if you went by the book, at least to start off with.
#2 The Underdark is below Faerun. There are no maps of it that I know of. You would not be able to get to it from any cave, but there are entrances to it and many of them would be found in caves.
#3 Free source of one-shot adventures? That sounds like LFR, which happens to take place in Forgotten Realms. They are a bit railroady (completely railroady) due to its nature, but if you are a new DM, it's a great place to start off until you are comfortable enough to branch out on your own. Also, Dungeon magazine has some pre-made modules, but Dungeon isn't free. Here's where you can find some of the modules (and this is nowhere near exhaustive, just a free place to get some): http://www.livingforgottenrealms.com/ You'll want the ones that say "Heroic Tier" and "Levels 1-4". The heroic tier encompasses a short adventure for characters level 1-10. The story remains the same but the monsters and skill dc's change, so if your players are level 1 they can do just fine in it, and if they are level 10 they can play it too. Obviously, they can't play it twice because the story remains the same. The levels 1-4 modules are pretty much the same way, except there's a low and high version. The low is for levels 1-2 and the high is for levels 3-4.
#4 Once again, I'd say run a couple of the LFR modules and get a feel for the game and the players, figure out what they like, then go from there.

[Flail_master]

Wonderful! i couldn't have asked for a better reply! :smallbiggrin:
thank you so much tcrudisi! :smallbiggrin:

[Flail_master]

lol one problem though, when i try to download one of the files, the PDF comes up blank, is there a way around that?

[tcrudisi]

lol one problem though, when i try to download one of the files, the PDF comes up blank, is there a way around that?

I'm a bit confused by this. Did you try downloading a couple of them to see if it was just one that was messed up or all of them? I just downloaded one a couple of days ago and it worked fine.

[Flail_master]

I'm a bit confused by this. Did you try downloading a couple of them to see if it was just one that was messed up or all of them? I just downloaded one a couple of days ago and it worked fine.

Yeah i tried downloading a few, all of em just turn out blank...i even tried stuff like right clicking the links and doing 'save as' nothin works :smallfrown:

know any other sites? :smalltongue:

[rayne_dragon]

I've seen some "maps" of the underdark in various supplements across the editions, but they tend to be rather poor in their depiction (as in really hard to read). In 4e the underdark is supposed to shift so much and so often that maps are rarely consistant for any length of time. Plus the whole thing with the King that Crawls hammering on the very walls of reality and actually distorting and contorting it means that the underdark has some wacky transdimensional topography and that's before you even start considering the incursions of the Far Realm and what kind of craziness that causes.

[Flail_master]

I've seen some "maps" of the underdark in various supplements across the editions, but they tend to be rather poor in their depiction (as in really hard to read). In 4e the underdark is supposed to shift so much and so often that maps are rarely consistant for any length of time. Plus the whole thing with the King that Crawls hammering on the very walls of reality and actually distorting and contorting it means that the underdark has some wacky transdimensional topography and that's before you even start considering the incursions of the Far Realm and what kind of craziness that causes.

aaah that is pretty damn cool! and explains a lot!
that will be very interesting to even incorporate into dungeons in the underdark, like if they spend a particularly large amount of time there, the way back has changed! :smallbiggrin:

[hoff]

#4: The PCs are all enlisted in "The Guild" which is a mercenary-like guns-for-hire adventures. You need something out of a cave full of kobolds? You hire The Guild.

All members of the guild signed contracts, in these it's specified that X% (50%?) of their profits (including magic items) goes to the guild and in exchange the members get jobs and support from the guild. Support comes in the form of equipment, food, shelter, magic item crafting, clerical services, funeral services (The Hobbit reference).

The contract is magic, the players can not disobey it or else face the consequences (if they hide something they found/disobey the rules the contract the PCs will be cursed or something). The PCs are in the guild for various reasons, the rogue was caught by the militia and was bailed out of prison by the guild in exchange of his services. The wizard dad went bankrupt during this formative years and the guild payed for his education. All the PCs are in debt with the guild and can't remove the contract until they pay off the debt.


Good points about this plot:

#1 All PCs (evil and good alike) are bound to a set of rules magically
#2 All PCs have reason to stay on track.
#3 Good source of NPCs (guildmates).
#4 Endless source of missions.
#5 Easy excuse for someone missing the session (they stayed at the guild doing something)
#6 You can throw more rewards to the PCs because part of it goes to the guild, the players can then choose which magic items they want and which they are going to give away.
#7 Since magic items price will be part of the "spoils" of a mission all players will receive equal rewards (and this is enforced by the guild). If someone got a magic item the rest of the party gets more gold. IE you can force your own loot rules to the PCs instead of making them decide for themselves.
#8 Once the PCs get close to the paragon levels you can throw a special adventure in which they find out that the guild has evil motivations and they need to destroy it from the inside. Once they finish it they enter the paragon tier and start doing more end of the world quests no longer bound to the guild.
#9 You can force the PCs to stay close to a single city (the guild headquarters).
#10 No "so you guys meet in the tarvern..." plot.

[RTGoodman]

If you want an introductory adventure, there's always "Kobold Hall" in the back of the DMG. It's pretty much exactly what you talked about.

After that, there are several low-level adventures in Dungeon, including (IIRC) in the free issues that you can still find online. (They're the ones from Summer '08 until early '09, I think.)

[gurban]

HS1 The Slaying Stone is a great LVL1 module, it is not FR, but changing a few names and you're there. There are many notable openings to the underdark, off the top of my head is the one neat Tymanther, the new Dragonborn city. As far as stuff to know about FR for 4e, it is all about the Spellplague.

[Flail_master]

#4: The PCs are all enlisted in "The Guild" which is a mercenary-like guns-for-hire adventures. You need something out of a cave full of kobolds? You hire The Guild.

All members of the guild signed contracts, in these it's specified that X% (50%?) of their profits (including magic items) goes to the guild and in exchange the members get jobs and support from the guild. Support comes in the form of equipment, food, shelter, magic item crafting, clerical services, funeral services (The Hobbit reference).

The contract is magic, the players can not disobey it or else face the consequences (if they hide something they found/disobey the rules the contract the PCs will be cursed or something). The PCs are in the guild for various reasons, the rogue was caught by the militia and was bailed out of prison by the guild in exchange of his services. The wizard dad went bankrupt during this formative years and the guild payed for his education. All the PCs are in debt with the guild and can't remove the contract until they pay off the debt.


Good points about this plot:

#1 All PCs (evil and good alike) are bound to a set of rules magically
#2 All PCs have reason to stay on track.
#3 Good source of NPCs (guildmates).
#4 Endless source of missions.
#5 Easy excuse for someone missing the session (they stayed at the guild doing something)
#6 You can throw more rewards to the PCs because part of it goes to the guild, the players can then choose which magic items they want and which they are going to give away.
#7 Since magic items price will be part of the "spoils" of a mission all players will receive equal rewards (and this is enforced by the guild). If someone got a magic item the rest of the party gets more gold. IE you can force your own loot rules to the PCs instead of making them decide for themselves.
#8 Once the PCs get close to the paragon levels you can throw a special adventure in which they find out that the guild has evil motivations and they need to destroy it from the inside. Once they finish it they enter the paragon tier and start doing more end of the world quests no longer bound to the guild.
#9 You can force the PCs to stay close to a single city (the guild headquarters).
#10 No "so you guys meet in the tarvern..." plot.

I like this a lot! I am now seriously considering including this in the game as their tie together! I think i even found a one-shot adventure that would actually work really well with this! thanks! :smallbiggrin:

and also, thanks to the others too, i shall keep those things in mind! :smallbiggrin:

[hoff]

I like this a lot! I am now seriously considering including this in the game as their tie together! I think i even found a one-shot adventure that would actually work really well with this! thanks! :smallbiggrin:

and also, thanks to the others too, i shall keep those things in mind! :smallbiggrin:

Glad I could help, I was planing on using this on my games if I ever came to DM one.

[BobTheDog]

I like this a lot! I am now seriously considering including this in the game as their tie together! I think i even found a one-shot adventure that would actually work really well with this! thanks! :smallbiggrin:

and also, thanks to the others too, i shall keep those things in mind! :smallbiggrin:

If you decide to place all PCs in a guild which magically controls and taxes their earnings, you should expect them to want out sooner or later. With that knowledge, you can either:

make it easy to quit, where they can simply say "we're out" and start questing on their own; or
make it hard/impossible to quit, where they'll have to fight/flee guild members in the future if they go AWOL.

Personally, I would use the first option if they're already involved in a bigger plot (say they have awoken something nasty and need to McGuffin around Faerun for a few months). Otherwise, if they just decide that they "don't need your stinkin' guild no more", feel free to make them sweat for it. Maybe the guild leaders will release them IF they are able to imprison something nasty or recover a fabled treasure, or maybe they decide to vanish and never come back, thusly giving you complete justification for assassin attacks when they least expect it. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Banzai]

lol one problem though, when i try to download one of the files, the PDF comes up blank, is there a way around that?

I'm able to download and view them without issue, may I suggest updating your Acrobat/Reader software to the newest version?

[Flail_master]

If you decide to place all PCs in a guild which magically controls and taxes their earnings, you should expect them to want out sooner or later. With that knowledge, you can either:

make it easy to quit, where they can simply say "we're out" and start questing on their own; or
make it hard/impossible to quit, where they'll have to fight/flee guild members in the future if they go AWOL.

Personally, I would use the first option if they're already involved in a bigger plot (say they have awoken something nasty and need to McGuffin around Faerun for a few months). Otherwise, if they just decide that they "don't need your stinkin' guild no more", feel free to make them sweat for it. Maybe the guild leaders will release them IF they are able to imprison something nasty or recover a fabled treasure, or maybe they decide to vanish and never come back, thusly giving you complete justification for assassin attacks when they least expect it. :smallbiggrin:

Hmm indeed those are good points, again, thanks for the help, it will make the campaign all the more interesting! :smallsmile:

also, @jack_banzai: i actually managed to sort it out recently, but thanks for the advice none the less :smallbiggrin:

[valadil]

I'm a little disappointed with FR as a setting for 4e. They rolled the history forward and released a few books, but there's a ton of info that's now out of date. I have no problems with the spell plague or any of the other new changes. There just isn't enough depth on what it's done.

I use the FR wikia page (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faerun) for info that's not in the books. It's a little annoying because I can't always tell what info applies to 3e and what's been updated for 4, but it's not bad. It's also really convenient if you use Firefox's keyword search, which basically lets you bookmark a search bar. I have mine set up so that typing "fr umberlee" in my address bar brings me to an FR wiki search on umberlee. Very convenient.

Here is a map of the Underdark (http://veldrin.kiev.ua/biblio/maps/Underdark.jpg) I found. It all lines up to stuff that's above ground. Saying that your PC is from the Underdark is not really descriptive. I don't think this map is up to date for 4e though, so you might have to adjust it to account for the spell plague.

[Flail_master]

I'm a little disappointed with FR as a setting for 4e. They rolled the history forward and released a few books, but there's a ton of info that's now out of date. I have no problems with the spell plague or any of the other new changes. There just isn't enough depth on what it's done.

I use the FR wikia page (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Faerun) for info that's not in the books. It's a little annoying because I can't always tell what info applies to 3e and what's been updated for 4, but it's not bad. It's also really convenient if you use Firefox's keyword search, which basically lets you bookmark a search bar. I have mine set up so that typing "fr umberlee" in my address bar brings me to an FR wiki search on umberlee. Very convenient.

Here is a map of the Underdark (http://veldrin.kiev.ua/biblio/maps/Underdark.jpg) I found. It all lines up to stuff that's above ground. Saying that your PC is from the Underdark is not really descriptive. I don't think this map is up to date for 4e though, so you might have to adjust it to account for the spell plague.

oooh both very useful! thanks!
i shall keep the 3rd and 4th edition changes in mind, ill try and find a list of 4th edition changes or something :smallsmile:

[mobdrazhar]

i definately have to second the FRwiki as it's been invaluable in my campaign.