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TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 12:55 PM
So, amongst another homebrew I have in my head, I'm thinking of tackling the concept of a blood Mage or a magic user with blood-based effects, etc. However, I'd like to hear from you what exactly you would expect this kind of a class to have. Here's a list I've made myself of what came to my mind:

-blood missile
-blood pool
-transfusion
-blood curse
-blood thirst
-bloody needle (spikey blood)
-blood weapon
-diseased blood
-bloody miasma (fog of blood)
-blood mount
-blood bomb
-blood wings
-caustic blood
-burning blood
-cold blood
-tears of blood (vision bonus)
-bloodshot
-blood memory
-blood shift (teleportation via blood)
-bleeding heart
-thicker than blood
-blood curdle (scream fear/sickness effect)
-blood money (money bonus)
-young blood (immortality)
-blood on your hands
-bad blood (disease)
-bloodhound (scent)
-iron blood (ac bonus)

If anyone can think of anymore, please share!

Nanoblack
2011-04-03, 02:46 PM
-Bloodbound

I could see it almost like psionics but with hp instead of pp and class features instead of powers. Doesn't seem like it should have a spell list, so maybe similar to a warlock?

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 02:53 PM
-bloodhound (scent)

Beat ya to it ;P Swordsaaaaaaged

And as to your idea, I was thinking something along the likes of "x amount of hp sacrificed to fuel x spell for x amount of die" or something like that. I considered a point based system with the hp in question, and it is generally what I want to do. Alas though, I've never played a psion, or a warlock, so I understand their mechanics, in theory, but don't really know due to a lack of experience.

Nanoblack
2011-04-03, 03:38 PM
Was actually BloodBound with a "B". The problem with your proposed system is mainly it seems like a lot of math.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-03, 03:41 PM
Make it CON based instead of HP based. Take CON damage to do X effect, CON drain for more powerful ones.

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 03:42 PM
Was actually BloodBound with a "B". The problem with your proposed system is mainly it seems like a lot of math.

....oh. : / Derp.

And yes, math will be prevalent, more so with this class, but we won't get into nasty stuff like percentages or fractions.


Make it CON based instead of HP based. Take CON damage to do X effect, CON drain for more powerful ones.

I think this would limit the class too much. Their HP would basically be a bigger pool to draw power from, and its not nearly as crippling as pure constitution damage and drain. Besides, the clerics would get pissy about having to heal his stat damage constantly.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-03, 03:50 PM
It would crimp the class to make it very gimmicky, but if you made the spells/effects less "blasty wizard" like and more "insane blood ritual" type (in other words, not exactly heavy on the in-combat effects) it might fit.

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 04:02 PM
It would crimp the class to make it very gimmicky, but if you made the spells/effects less "blasty wizard" like and more "insane blood ritual" type (in other words, not exactly heavy on the in-combat effects) it might fit.

"If" is the key word here. Frankly, I want more of the first and not the latter, so if you want to make a con damaging crazy blood wizard, then by all means go ahead. I want to do it the other way.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-03, 04:07 PM
In that case, consider making it more... bloody? Perhaps a blood blaster would be able to really mix it up in melee thanks to bloody tendrils, which are essentially Evard's tentacles except... bloody.

The key here is assigning a base HP cost for each spell and then allowing the spells to "scale" depending on how much additional HP you spend.

What are you planning to have as the class's base Hit Die? A wizard's d4 might leave you with not enough HP to properly blast. A d8, maybe?

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 04:16 PM
In that case, consider making it more... bloody? Perhaps a blood blaster would be able to really mix it up in melee thanks to bloody tendrils, which are essentially Evard's tentacles except... bloody.

The key here is assigning a base HP cost for each spell and then allowing the spells to "scale" depending on how much additional HP you spend.

What are you planning to have as the class's base Hit Die? A wizard's d4 might leave you with not enough HP to properly blast. A d8, maybe?

I was thinking more like d12 actually. I know they're not an up-front fighter type, but they're completely dependent on the amount of health they have to fuel their magic and keep themselves alive at the same time. It's not like a wizard because they gain their power directly from magic, while this would focus more on sacrificing ones health for power. Also, its much more specialized than a wizard is in terms of what the class does and where its getting its power from.

I agree with what you said about the base hp cost + scaling, and I also agree with your thoughts of this being more of a "blaster" class than a full out re fluffed wizard with spells and tricks.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-03, 04:21 PM
Okay. So someone playing this class would do his level best to max out his Con bonus and other HP related je ne sais quoi.

Because it would be a class relying mainly on the blood magic, it would probably only have (at most) simple weapons and suchlike. You might require a weapon that does slashing or piercing damage in order to use the abilities properly.

What you might want to do is this: take a look at the feats list and see if there's anything this particular class would be able to benefit from.

In addition, coming up with some bonus feats that automatically apply at 1/4/8/12/16/20 or 1/5/10/15/20, for example, would be interesting.

More blood-based abilities, I assume, would become available based on level?

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 04:42 PM
More blood-based abilities, I assume, would become available based on level?

Yes, at least 1 per lvl, and more than one for a few of them.

EdroGrimshell
2011-04-03, 04:44 PM
Make it a feat chain that can only be taken by characters with a high Cha and Con score, i did it for a campaign and it worked fairly well, though if you're looking to create spells with blood that's another story entirely

Pigkappa
2011-04-03, 04:55 PM
Sacrificing HPs to cast spells = an extremely high amount of spells/day. Except at very low levels, healing HPs is really easy.

If you want to do this, I would make him very hard to be healed (e.g. any healing spell can cure him at most as the level of the spell) by common means.

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 05:05 PM
Sacrificing HPs to cast spells = an extremely high amount of spells/day. Except at very low levels, healing HPs is really easy.

If you want to do this, I would make him very hard to be healed (e.g. any healing spell can cure him at most as the level of the spell) by common means.

Perhaps he can't be healed at all, except by the bloody means that his class would grant him (for instance, an ability which sacrifices some of his health, deals damage to his enemies, and heals him back if the spell deals damage), though that too sounds too dangerous.

Also: I was thinking of granting a temporary HP pool which he could accumulate in battle. It would only appear in battle and could only be filled via his abilities, so no cheap fast healing/regeneration/heal spell his pool so he can be an op tank. It would also disappear after a few minutes if he has any leftover temporary hp left.

Nanoblack
2011-04-03, 06:08 PM
Maybe something like this:

Have however many tiers of abilities you like, but with the first level of abilities being free. Everything after those require higher and higher hp costs, eventually just costing fractions of max hp for the highest level of powers.

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 06:45 PM
Maybe something like this:

Have however many tiers of abilities you like, but with the first level of abilities being free. Everything after those require higher and higher hp costs, eventually just costing fractions of max hp for the highest level of powers.

That makes sense actually. If that were the case, then should the temporary hp pool not exist?

Nanoblack
2011-04-03, 07:27 PM
I don't see why not. I was thinking of putting in a restriction requiring the usage of a lower level ability in order to unlock the usage of higher tier abilities but that would require long combats and thats not what anyone wants. Of course that Ideas viability is based on how many tiers you include and what sort of action it takes to activate them. haste would effectively halve the time it takes to hit upper level powers, but maybe that's what you want.

Maybe it could gain momentum as combat drags on longer eventually turning into a bloody whirlwind of death once critical mass is achieved :smalltongue:

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 07:59 PM
Maybe it could gain momentum as combat drags on longer eventually turning into a bloody whirlwind of death once critical mass is achieved :smalltongue:

Greater damage output and greater hp drain just came to mind...

Nanoblack
2011-04-03, 08:43 PM
Greater damage output and greater hp drain just came to mind...

But that's not all hopefully.

TechnOkami
2011-04-03, 08:45 PM
But that's not all hopefully.

Of course not! :smallcool:

Seraphiel
2011-04-04, 05:45 PM
So, if the spelled are fueled by hp, perhaps you could limit healing done to the character to half. Also, you could make it so small amounts of healing (fast healing 1 and the like) wouldn't work unless over a certain value?

As for the costs, you could also say that if a spell is used more than once an encounter, the HP cost is half again as much. (10 HP -> 15 HP and so on).

I have no idea if this idea is even decent. :smallamused:

Nanoblack
2011-04-04, 07:02 PM
The class should contain enough personal healing to make halving outside sources or reducing fast healing kinda null. The way I see this classes role in combat is sort of like the tides. It loses health and damages enemies, but immediately afterwards heals back (not necessarily all of it). Each time a wave goes out and comes back, it strengthens the next one.

Hell you could even include a class feature called blood tide.

In short, I see the effects getting stronger with more consecutive use, but draining more health. The incremental hp discount would just encourage spamming and make it too easy to nova. (Think as if a psion's powers got cheaper after every manifest :smalleek:)

So while the powers this class gets shouldn't be quite as strong as a wizards spells at first, they should be capable of snowballing into something fearsome, though at great risk to the user.

TechnOkami
2011-04-04, 07:13 PM
The class should contain enough personal healing to make halving outside sources or reducing fast healing kinda null. The way I see this classes role in combat is sort of like the tides. It loses health and damages enemies, but immediately afterwards heals back (not necessarily all of it). Each time a wave goes out and comes back, it strengthens the next one.

Hell you could even include a class feature called blood tide.

In short, I see the effects getting stronger with more consecutive use, but draining more health. The incremental hp discount would just encourage spamming and make it too easy to nova. (Think as if a psion's powers got cheaper after every manifest :smalleek:)

So while the powers this class gets shouldn't be quite as strong as a wizards spells at first, they should be capable of snowballing into something fearsome, though at great risk to the user.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Though I'm not too sure how much damage it should be persay, though something of a necessity for the class is an ability which both damages the enemy and heals the blood mage @ the same time, albeit once every 1d4/1d6 rounds and the ability itself wouldn't be overly strong. Then he could have a more damaging ability akin to eldritch blast.

sscheib
2011-04-05, 01:27 AM
I kind of like the idea of an ability that if an enemy has taken so much damage and is bleeding out, the blood mage guy can use his enemy's blood to heal his own wounds. Using the blood around him as fuel in addition to his own. Eh? Eh?

By the way, I'm so glad you suggested this. I've been wanting a blood mage for so long and I just feel like the Blood Magus isn't enough. I have a feeling this is going to turn out awesome.

TechnOkami
2011-04-05, 09:34 AM
I kind of like the idea of an ability that if an enemy has taken so much damage and is bleeding out, the blood mage guy can use his enemy's blood to heal his own wounds. Using the blood around him as fuel in addition to his own. Eh? Eh?

By the way, I'm so glad you suggested this. I've been wanting a blood mage for so long and I just feel like the Blood Magus isn't enough. I have a feeling this is going to turn out awesome.

I made one of his abilities similar to what you just described, minus the fact they have to be bleeding. It's more like he forcefully rips out said blood. >:)

sscheib
2011-04-05, 11:45 AM
I made one of his abilities similar to what you just described, minus the fact they have to be bleeding. It's more like he forcefully rips out said blood. >:)

Oh, that's cool. What about...an ability that, as a battle rages on, the blood spilled is naturally drawn to the Blood Mage? So like, during a battle he regenerates health at some rate? Would that be too difficult to implement?

Or maybe, whenever someone is attacked and hit, the Blood Mage can regenerate a portion of the damage dealt. This would be a class ability that he gets later on, perhaps. It's sort of a horrendous thing that he might gain health based on his allies misfortune ^^

TechnOkami
2011-04-05, 01:41 PM
Oh, that's cool. What about...an ability that, as a battle rages on, the blood spilled is naturally drawn to the Blood Mage? So like, during a battle he regenerates health at some rate? Would that be too difficult to implement?

Or maybe, whenever someone is attacked and hit, the Blood Mage can regenerate a portion of the damage dealt. This would be a class ability that he gets later on, perhaps. It's sort of a horrendous thing that he might gain health based on his allies misfortune ^^

...actually, the first doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. In fact, it could work like a conditional form of fast healing or regeneration.

As per the second ability... that I think could get overpowered very quickly.

sscheib
2011-04-05, 04:59 PM
...actually, the first doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. In fact, it could work like a conditional form of fast healing or regeneration.

As per the second ability... that I think could get overpowered very quickly.

I'm glad you like the first idea.

As for the second one, I thought it'd be like a per encounter thing. You can only use it so many times per encounter, or even per day. And at the most I could see it regenerating something like half the damage. If that. Or maybe it only works when someone is hit critically. I dunno. It might just not work.

TechnOkami
2011-04-05, 05:44 PM
I'm glad you like the first idea.

As for the second one, I thought it'd be like a per encounter thing. You can only use it so many times per encounter, or even per day. And at the most I could see it regenerating something like half the damage. If that. Or maybe it only works when someone is hit critically. I dunno. It might just not work.

Eh, I'm still tentative on it as an ability.

Nanoblack
2011-04-05, 05:56 PM
Maybe every time someone takes piercing or slashing damage within a certain distance of the blood mage, they get fast healing 1 for X amount of time. If someone within range takes more slashing or piercing damage while the fast healing is still in effect, it increases by 1 (to a maximum based on level).

TechnOkami
2011-04-05, 06:04 PM
Maybe every time someone takes piercing or slashing damage within a certain distance of the blood mage, they get fast healing 1 for X amount of time. If someone within range takes more slashing or piercing damage while the fast healing is still in effect, it increases by 1 (to a maximum based on level).

...now THAT sounds interesting. What could make it better is if it also effected the blood mage, but yeah that sounds like a good passive support ability.

Question: Should I call this just the Blood Mage? Because my other name for it is the Blood Lord... I'm just curious what your opinion on this is.

Nanoblack
2011-04-05, 06:14 PM
Just did some quick thesaurus work... how about the Hemophile?

TechnOkami
2011-04-05, 06:35 PM
Just did some quick thesaurus work... how about the Hemophile?

Eh... no. Blood Mage or Blood Lord sounds better.

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-05, 06:36 PM
Hemophile sounds oddly sexual.

That might also refer to Vampirism.

Nanoblack
2011-04-05, 06:39 PM
Could go the way of LoL and call it a Crimson Reaper.

EDIT:



Hemophile sounds oddly sexual.

That might also refer to Vampirism.
O_o

sscheib
2011-04-05, 06:55 PM
I like Blood Mage over Blood Lord. And Crimson Reaper actually sounds kinda neat...>.>

Does this Blood Mage use regular spells or only his blood-related abilities?

TechnOkami
2011-04-05, 06:58 PM
I like Blood Mage over Blood Lord. And Crimson Reaper actually sounds kinda neat...>.>

Does this Blood Mage use regular spells or only his blood-related abilities?

Abilities only.

Also:
Could go the way of LoL and call it a Crimson Reaper.

I might use this for the name of the Blood Mage's/Lord's ultimate in the works.

Seraphiel
2011-04-05, 11:12 PM
[QUOTE=Nanoblack;10712014]Could go the way of LoL and call it a Crimson Reaper.

How about we just call him The Vlad. :l

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-05, 11:18 PM
I like Blood Mage over Blood Lord. And Crimson Reaper actually sounds kinda neat...>.>


No, Crimson Reaper is way too ostentatious. I mean, imagine running around as a 1st level Crimson Reaper, busy trying to bleed oversized sewer rats to death.

As a name it's just incompatible with all phases of the class, which is undesirable. You can certainly see a 20th level character whipping up storms of blood and tearing the blood out of opponents' bodies being called "Crimson Reaper", but not the aforementioned rat-bleeder.

Class names should at the very least be indicative of what the class does at all levels and be generic enough not to sound like Supervillain names.

For example, "Fighter" is a good class name. "Sword of the Seven Storms" is... not.

TechnOkami
2011-04-06, 12:30 AM
No, Crimson Reaper is way too ostentatious. I mean, imagine running around as a 1st level Crimson Reaper, busy trying to bleed oversized sewer rats to death.

As a name it's just incompatible with all phases of the class, which is undesirable. You can certainly see a 20th level character whipping up storms of blood and tearing the blood out of opponents' bodies being called "Crimson Reaper", but not the aforementioned rat-bleeder.

Class names should at the very least be indicative of what the class does at all levels and be generic enough not to sound like Supervillain names.

For example, "Fighter" is a good class name. "Sword of the Seven Storms" is... not.

In other words: Simple names for the Base class, fancy names for the PrC's.

TechnOkami
2011-04-08, 10:58 PM
...alright, I've been toying with this thought throughout the weeks and I can't decide anymore. For the Blood Mage, should I:
1.) make it a class with pure abilities, or
2.) should I make it more like Psionics, except points expended are your hp?

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-08, 11:26 PM
...alright, I've been toying with this thought throughout the weeks and I can't decide anymore. For the Blood Mage, should I:
1.) make it a class with pure abilities, or
2.) should I make it more like Psionics, except points expended are your hp?

I'd say both. Well a mixture really. Make abilities that are "paid" for with your HP and some self-healing abilities so your not killing yourself. I personally like the piercing/slashing damage=Fast Healing idea. Like a ratio. 5:1 at like second level and increasing. to like 1:1 at 10th or something. That way you can never have more than damage dealt fast healing.

TechnOkami
2011-04-10, 03:30 AM
I'd say both. Well a mixture really. Make abilities that are "paid" for with your HP and some self-healing abilities so your not killing yourself. I personally like the piercing/slashing damage=Fast Healing idea. Like a ratio. 5:1 at like second level and increasing. to like 1:1 at 10th or something. That way you can never have more than damage dealt fast healing.

...I can't believe I didn't think of that... > < Both it is.

Now, new question: Alignment.

There are two ways I can see this going. Either it can be available to everyone, or it can be available to the non-good only. Making it solely for the evil people I think would limit the class in a bad way.

Thoughts?

sscheib
2011-04-10, 03:44 AM
I always liked the idea of a good character seeking redemption through his own suffering. So, I'd vote this class to be available to all alignments. I would understand non-good decision, but I don't see why it CAN'T be available to anyone.

Nopraptor
2011-04-10, 03:45 AM
how about Hemomancer?
oh and LoL FTW and so forth!

picture for when you make the thread for the class
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=86638&d=1291778763

TechnOkami
2011-04-10, 03:56 AM
I tend to agree with that you're saying about alignment, so unless something more convincing comes along, it will be available to everyone.

As for the class name: Blood Mage. I finally settled on the simple name.

As for something random about the class, I'm going to make all healing effects besides those caused by the Blood Mage's powers be rendered ineffective. Basically, he can't be healed via spells or potions (except those made by himself as per one of the abilities I'm thinking of).

Yora
2011-04-10, 12:32 PM
2.) should I make it more like Psionics, except points expended are your hp?
I did something like this. It's basically a psion with a special power list. He also gains an ability that works like a wilders Wild Surge but instead of having a chance to be stunned and lose extra PP, you suffer the effects from the Body Fuel feat. You can manifest powers normally, but when you need the boost, you can use your own blood as additional magical fuel.
There are actually quite a number of powers that work very well for a blood theme, like biofeedback, mind thrust, inflict pain, and crisis of breath.

TechnOkami
2011-04-10, 12:48 PM
I did something like this. It's basically a psion with a special power list. He also gains an ability that works like a wilders Wild Surge but instead of having a chance to be stunned and lose extra PP, you suffer the effects from the Body Fuel feat. You can manifest powers normally, but when you need the boost, you can use your own blood as additional magical fuel.
There are actually quite a number of powers that work very well for a blood theme, like biofeedback, mind thrust, inflict pain, and crisis of breath.



Yeah, I noticed that when I ventured through the psionic powers. But with this class, I want the abilities to directly affect the Blood Mage's hp as it's sole source of power. Though you could use the blood of enemies and allies too... :smallamused:

Yora
2011-04-10, 01:47 PM
I don't think making spells powered by hit points would work well. You either would need to be able to heal yourself, which would end in throwing in a healing spell every few rounds, or you have a really huge amount of hit points. If not, you become useless after casting a couple of spells since you don't want to be killed by a single stray arrow.

TechnOkami
2011-04-10, 03:01 PM
I don't think making spells powered by hit points would work well. You either would need to be able to heal yourself, which would end in throwing in a healing spell every few rounds, or you have a really huge amount of hit points. If not, you become useless after casting a couple of spells since you don't want to be killed by a single stray arrow.

Basically I'm trying to do just this. As per the healing, the only healing which could affect the Blood Mage would be any healing he does to himself through his own abilities specifically. This is more for the sake of keeping the class balanced and not overly broken (because hp spell slingers with infinite heals on their hands will get very broken very quickly). I'm debating as to whether I should allow potions or not...

Sarco_Phage
2011-04-10, 03:02 PM
You might end up breaking it in the wrong direction, but after all that's what play-testing is for.:smallbiggrin:

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-10, 06:08 PM
I'd say for alignment, any non-lawful. I don't see how stealing the blood of your allies and enemies indiscrimantly is very lawful. I understand and agree with both account towards non-good. It would limit the class too much.

As far as self healing, I'd say one passive, relativly weak ability that scales well that adds up overtime. See my Fast Healing idea above. And another one that is massive but has limited use. Like a full round action that heals 50% of Max Hp (so it will automatically scale) but useable like 1/encounter or like 3/day and increasing the number of usages as you level. I like the second one better as it prevents multiclassers from abusing it.

I would also add fluff about wearing red clothing/robes so enemies have difficulty determining how badly injured he is. Like the joke about the captain, the red shirt, and the brown pants.

Nanoblack
2011-04-10, 06:51 PM
I don't really agree on giving it an ability that exclusively heals except for something similar to the fast healing I mentioned earlier. Just my opinion, but I think all of its healing should require some sort of damage exchange. Perhaps healing after drinking blood? Can we get a skeleton of this up? Looking for BAB and save at least for now.

TechnOkami
2011-04-10, 08:03 PM
I'd say for alignment, any non-lawful. I don't see how stealing the blood of your allies and enemies indiscriminately is very lawful. I understand and agree with both account towards non-good. It would limit the class too much.

Actually, I think a lawful alignment would be good for someone whose LE. Lawful Evil Blood Mage sounds like a good "manipulator" archetype to me.


Can we get a skeleton of this up? Looking for BAB and save at least for now.

Yes, yes you can have a skeleton. :xykon:

The Blood Mage

Prerequisites
To become a Blood Mage, the following things must be obtained.
-the PC must have a constitution score.
-the PC must have blood of some form.

Alignment
Any.

Hit Die
d12.

Class Skills
The Blood Mage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (con), Craft (int), Diplomacy (cha), Disguise (cha), Gather Information (cha), Heal (wis), Intimidate (cha), Knowledge (arcana) (int), Knowledge (local) (int), Knowledge (history) (int), Knowledge (nobility) (int), and Profession (wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(4 + Int modifier) ×4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier.


{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special (In Progress)|Transfusion|Blood Missile
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Sanguine Pact, Transfusion|+1d4|-
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|Blood Missile|+1d4|+1d6
3|+2|+3|+1|+3|Bloodline|+2d4|+1d6
4|+3|+4|+1|+4|Thicker Than Water|+2d4|+2d6
5|+3|+4|+1|+4|Blood Mount|+3d4|+2d6
6|+4|+5|+2|+5|Blood Crystal|+3d4|+3d6
7|+5|+5|+2|+5|Hemogyration|+4d4|+3d6
8|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Arcane Vampirism|+4d4|+4d6
9|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6||+5d4|+4d6
10|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7||+5d4|+5d6
11|+8/+3/+1|+7|+3|+7|Blood Drain|+6d4|+5d6
12|+9/+4/+1|+8|+4|+8|Blood Memory|+6d4|+6d6
13|+9/+4/+2|+8|+4|+8||+7d4|+6d6
14|+10/+5/+2|+9|+4|+9||+7d4|+7d6
15|+11/+6/+3|+9|+5|+9||+8d4|+7d6
16|+12/+7/+3|+10|+5|+10||+8d4|+8d6
17|+12/+7/+4|+10|+5|+10||+9d4|+8d6
18|+13/+8/+4|+11|+6|+11||+9d4|+9d6
19|+14/+9/+5|+11|+6|+11||+10d4|+9d6
20|+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Blood Lord|+10d4|+10d6[/table]

Sanguine Pact:
The Blood Mage has undergone a pact with an outsider, granting him magical prowess through the sacrificing and regenerating of his life. However, such power does not come without a price. From now on, all healing effects not caused by the Blood Mage's class abilities (with the exception of potions) do not heal him. As well as having ficdifulties with healing, the Blood Mage will now have drastic consequences for dying. If the Blood Mage dies, depending on the alignment of the Outsider in question, either the Blood Mage's soul will forever belong to that entity (evil) or eternal servitude will be forever given (good). Neutral Outsiders can go in either direction. The Blood Mage will become an NPC controlled by the GM. However, as the Blood Lord gains more power, the Blood Lord will slowly rely less and less on the Outsider until he reaches the peak of his power. For every two class levels, if the Blood Mage happens to die, an avatar of the Outsider he serves will come to bring him back. All hit points he lost will be restored, any ailments he might be suffering will be removed, and any ability damage/drain/negative levels gained will be restored. If the Blood Mage dies more times than he is willingly revived, he becomes an NPC.

Transfusion:
The Blood Mage can forcefully rip the life from their enemies, damaging them and replenishing his own vitality. This can be used at will, and causes 1d4 damage + constitution modifier to the recipient. He gains a hit point for every point of damage dealt through this ability. For every 2 class levels, add another d4 to the total roll, capping at 10d4. The constitution modifier can only be added once.

Blood Missile:
The Blood Mage can sacrifice his own life energy for arcane prowess, concentrating it in a crimson blast of blood. The Blood Mage sacrifices 1 hit point per class level to cast a Blood Missile. It initially deals 1d6 damage, and increases by a d6 per two class levels, capping at 10d6 worth of damage. Furthermore, the Blood Mage can sacrifice more hit points to increase the damage of his Blood Missile. The Blood Mage can sacrifice 5 hit points, adding his constitution modifier to a single damage die. This can only be done once per available damage die, maxing out at 50 hit points sacrificed for your constitution modifier added to the total of your damage roll times ten.

Bloodline:
The Blood Mage has learned of the bonds that bind creatures together, as well as the properties that they are composed of. By succeeding on a DC of 10 + the total hit die of the source of blood, the Blood Mage can discern the strengths and weaknesses of the creature, gaining knowledge of any immunities, resistances, weaknesses, vulnerabilities, and physical stats of the creature at the time the blood was drawn. He is also able to discern whether two creatures are related by blood or not. By making the same roll for two creatures and succeeding on them, he gains knowledge of any common lineage the two may share, whether they share a common ancestor or are more closely related.

Thicker than Water:
The blood of a Blood Mage begins to change from extended use of its potential, becoming stronger in composition and reducing the likeliness of death. From now on, the Blood Mage is immune to any bleeding effects and gains the diehard feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Blood Mount:
The Blood Mage can take the recently killed flesh of a creature and reanimate it into a living creature of flesh and blood, completely subservient to the Blood Mage's will. The Blood Mount must consume at least 1/4th of its total hit points daily to remain functional. Failure to keep the Blood Mount fed will result in it dying again. The corpse created in such a manner cannot be re-raised as his Blood Mount, and he must use another corpse. He may only have one blood mount at a time, and can bring back a creature whose hit die count is less than or equal to his class level. For every three class levels after the ability is obtained, he can add one point of his constitution modifier to the hit die cap, adding it's full worth at level 20. Refer to the template below for the abilities it gains per levels.

Blood Crystal:
The Blood Mage has learned that having blood on hand is a useful, albeit messy process. To compensate for the messiness, the Blood Mage can now sacrifice as many hit points as he desires (or from a willing/unwilling target) and compress them into a crystal of concentrated blood. It takes twice as many hit points to create a blood crystal from an external source than from the Blood Mage's own body. Treat the crystal as if a potion were being consumed. The Blood Mage can only ever have one Blood Crystal per 3 class levels (capping at 5) created by him at any given time, though he can have as many Blood Crystals from other Blood Mages as he wants.

Hemogyration:
The Blood Mage's power is a costly one, urging him to utilize excess blood gained in battle and utilizing every last drop. During combat, the Blood Mage gains a temporary hit point pool gained solely from his class abilities, swirling around him like a maelstrom. The pool starts at 5 and increases by 5 for every class level after, capping at 70. The constitution modifier is added to the entire pool once. Sources of healing that do not come from the Blood Mage's class abilities cannot increase the pool. If any remaining hit points remain in the pool after the battle, the blood mage can either transfer them into a wounded party member (divided amongst as many people the Blood Mage chooses) or compress it into a Blood Crystal for later use.

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp):
The Blood Mage's power over blood has extended from his own to any blood available. The Blood Mage can use the hit points of another, willing or unwilling, to fuel his abilities. However, it costs twice as much to use an external source in such a manner.

Blood Wings:

Lifesense:

Blood Drain:
The Blood Mage has learned how to utilize the damage of others, slowly draining them of hit points to replenish his own. If the Blood Mage is at least 25% damaged, and bleeding enemies (or enemies with exposed wounds) are within 10ft of him, their blood begins to forcibly move through the air to the Blood Mage. Enemies affected in this way take 1 point of damage, and the Blood Mage gains fast healing/1 per enemy. Both the rate of drain and the range of his drain increase the more he is damaged. At 50% damage, damage to enemies increases to 3 and fast healing by 3, the range goes up to 20ft. At 75% damage, 5 and 5 respectively, range up to 40. If the Blood Mage becomes fully healed this way and has leftover hit points, they are added to his Hemogyration.

Blood Memory:
The Blood Mage's understanding of blood's potential has undergone a significant change, seeing it not only as an extension of his life, but an extension of his mind. By tapping into the latent memory held by his blood, the Blood Mage can use his constitution modifier in place of his intelligence modifier when determining the amount of skill points he gains per level. The previous skill points remain unchanged. He can also see another person's life through their blood. (details on this specific mechanic to come)

Blood Pool:

Toxic Blood:

Blood Money:

Blood Curdle:

Blood Mist:
As a standard action, a Blood Mage can assume gaseous form at will as the spell (caster level 6th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet plus his constitution modifier with perfect maneuverability.

Hemoplague:

Bloodthirsty:

Blood Lord:
The Blood Mage has reached the pinnacle of his power. At level 20, the Sanguine Pact is fulfilled, granting the Blood Mage the freedom to do as he wills without fearing his soul being shackled to eternal servitude or torture. He gains the Native Outsider subtype, allowing him to create Sanguine Pacts of his own. His power over blood, life itself, has concentrated immense power inside of him, granting him immortality. He also gains the following: Immunity from Death Effects, Ablility Damage, Ability Drain

The Blood Mage's Blood Mount
{table=head]Blood Mage Level|Bonus HD|Natural Armor Adj.|Con Adj.|Special
5th-7th|+2|+2|+1|
8th-10th|+4|+4|+2|
11th-13th|+6|+6|+3|
14th-16th|+8|+8|+4|
17th-20th|+10|+10|+5|[/table]

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-11, 02:55 PM
Any save DC's should definatly be Con based and if not, Cha based. Obviously, Con should be the most important ability, followed possibly by Cha. I'm not sure why I think Cha is important, it just seems right. Possibly because most Arcane casters use Cha. Note I said MOST!

TechnOkami
2011-04-11, 03:18 PM
Any save DC's should definatly be Con based and if not, Cha based. Obviously, Con should be the most important ability, followed possibly by Cha. I'm not sure why I think Cha is important, it just seems right. Possibly because most Arcane casters use Cha. Note I said MOST!

Those are actually the stats I put the most prevalence on for this class.

sscheib
2011-04-11, 03:43 PM
So, you have a lot of ability names listed in your original post, but are these just ideas? Do you have any abilities actually thought out and written up? I might try to come up with some abilities if I have time.

TechnOkami
2011-04-11, 06:49 PM
So, you have a lot of ability names listed in your original post, but are these just ideas? Do you have any abilities actually thought out and written up? I might try to come up with some abilities if I have time.

Yeah, there are some abilities I have down in detail. Should I just post them in new posts or just edit the table as needed?

sscheib
2011-04-11, 07:26 PM
Yeah, there are some abilities I have down in detail. Should I just post them in new posts or just edit the table as needed?

I'd post it in the table. Make it look all pretty n'stuff.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 01:54 PM
You have a different ablity every level. You need to be careful you aren't over saturating the class. I'd cut some of the abilities and make the others become more powerful. Too many class features means something won't be remembered. Or if they all progress thats a lot to keep track of. If there are going to spells, make some of the non-progressing class features into spells.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 01:58 PM
You have a different ablity every level. You need to be careful you aren't over saturating the class. I'd cut some of the abilities and make the others become more powerful. Too many class features means something won't be remembered. Or if they all progress thats a lot to keep track of. If there are going to spells, make some of the non-progressing class features into spells.

I thought people didn't like ability gaps in classes though... then again, I am doing a caster base class... alright, I'll see what I can merge.

Yora
2011-04-12, 01:59 PM
Now it seems very owerpowered. Full caster with High Fort, 3/4 BAB, d12 HD, 4 Skill Points per level, AND a special ability on every level.

When you're class is much better than a wizard or cleric, you know somethings wrong. :smallamused:

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 02:00 PM
Now it seems very owerpowered. Full caster with High Fort, 3/4 BAB, d12 HD, 4 Skill Points per level, AND a special ability on every level.

When you're class is much better than a wizard or cleric, you know somethings wrong. :smallamused:

In my defense! : I've never homebrewed before. :smalleek:

But alright, I'm taking out the nerfbat.

Yora
2011-04-12, 02:03 PM
But you should first consider what you're really going to do:
A variant wizard who uses a different magic system and has a different list of spells, or a very tough guy who relies on attacking his enemies with a bunch of unique special abilities.
I'd go for one of those two, and not try to make each weaker so at the end you get something balanced. That approach usually doesn't end up with good results.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 02:58 PM
But you should first consider what you're really going to do:
A variant wizard who uses a different magic system and has a different list of spells, or a very tough guy who relies on attacking his enemies with a bunch of unique special abilities.
I'd go for one of those two, and not try to make each weaker so at the end you get something balanced. That approach usually doesn't end up with good results.

Alright, then when I return to edit the class, I'll make it a spellcasting class primarily.

Question: Is making new spells too much of a hassle?

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 03:52 PM
I thought people didn't like ability gaps in classes though... then again, I am doing a caster base class... alright, I'll see what I can merge.

Thats why I suggested progressing abilities that become stronger, more useful, more usages, etc. as you level up. Its ok if you introduce nothing new at level 12, as long as the ability you introduced at level 6 becomes more powerful.


Alright, then when I return to edit the class, I'll make it a spellcasting class primarily.

Question: Is making new spells too much of a hassle?

That depends. I personally don't want this class to be a "primarily spellcasting" class like wizard or sorcerer. Just because he doesn't have a spell list like a wizard doesn't mean he isn't a spellcaster. With enough fluff, you can pass off any ability as "spellcasting". Unlike other casters, the Blood Mage's source of power is not spell slots, but his own blood. Which can be replenished. So giving him spell slots, even if they are filled with thematically accurate spells, doesn't fit with the concept, in my opinion. I'd say the narrow focus of the class kinda prevents it from having a varried enough spells to realistically have a spell list to speak of. I could be wrong if you can get creative enough but your putting a large workload on yourself.

Overall, reduce the class abilities, make them become stronger, more usages etc. and don't make it a typical caster.

drack
2011-04-12, 05:24 PM
*slowly reads through everything* OK, so I was thinking that though you're doing HP used maybe in order to spread out the stat load you made the save DCs Cha brassed, make temp HP con brassed, allow con damage for either short term healing mid battle (temp con damage such that you don't need to fuss over it), but make that con damage lower you're overall HP pool, that way you are using the next step up from massive self inflict damage, and not instantly killing yourself if you pull out a few spells. You also might want another mental stat to lower HP cost of spells if you intend to take this more like a monk in the sense of spread out skills and more abilities which somewhat balance that out.

I saw a melee brassed thing like this that I'll link in shortly that you can harvest ideas off of.

Also perhaps have bleeding attacks (1 damage per turn and so on) from which your ability to draw blood to you allows you to heal.

Also I haven't seen any mention of messing with their blood before you spill it, for example some of those touch type spells that mess with limbs, or just debuff.

Also perhaps allowing that extra healing that you may need by being able to take health from willing subjects (think post combat healing once the blood stops flowing)

By the way I vote plane old 'blood mage' as the name :smallbiggrin:

I think you have some nice abilities lain out there, and that this thing could turn into one deadly masochistic, but remember to keep tweaking, because the other one like this I saw ended up abandoned.

Edit: progressing abilities are commonly a good thing too, but you could just make some of the others spells...

OK, salvage all you want, and drop most this thing :smallbiggrin:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167125

Edit 2: If it feels like I'm hijacking feel free to boot me :smallbiggrin:

sscheib
2011-04-12, 05:56 PM
To be honest, I didn't even think this was going to be a full caster. I assumed most of his abilities would comprise his magical talent, with a few spells here and there.

I'd give him less skills at every level, too.

And to re-iterate, see what you can do about reducing the sheer number of abilities he has, whether that means cutting the fat or combining a couple abilities into one, and scale them.

I also liked the idea of a bleeding attack that saps HP from foes over time. That sounds very cool.

And "Blood Mount" is sort of high on that list. Is it just a mount made from blood? If so, I'd bring it down to around 5th level, where the Paladin receives her special mount. Maybe.

drack
2011-04-12, 05:59 PM
I had assumed more of a half caster with some of the abilities transfered to spells, and whatever spells may fit as well.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 06:00 PM
...Alright, I've got a new idea. I'll post two forms of the same class on this thread, one full of pure abilities and one a full spellcaster variant. The first one I've posted so far will be the ability one and the latter will be the spellcasting. The point: When both are posted, the one preferred or overall seems better will be the one to keep.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 06:03 PM
To be honest, I didn't even think this was going to be a full caster. I assumed most of his abilities would comprise his magical talent, with a few spells here and there.

Thats what I was thinking.


I'd give him less skills at every level, too.

I honestly have no opinion on this matter. I'm not a good judge on skills.


And to re-iterate, see what you can do about reducing the sheer number of abilities he has, whether that means cutting the fat or combining a couple abilities into one, and scale them.

Completly, utterly, agree.


I also liked the idea of a bleeding attack that saps HP from foes over time. That sounds very cool.

And "Blood Mount" is sort of high on that list. Is it just a mount made from blood? If so, I'd bring it down to around 5th level, where the Paladin receives her special mount. Maybe.

Also agree. I think between TechnOkami, sscheib, and my self we can make an impressive class with a very cool theme.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 06:07 PM
...Alright, I've got a new idea. I'll post two forms of the same class on this thread, one full of pure abilities and one a full spellcaster variant. The first one I've posted so far will be the ability one and the latter will be the spellcasting. The point: When both are posted, the one preferred or overall seems better will be the one to keep.

Or you can keep both and call each a variant of the other. Even make some fluff about the antagonism between the two schools of thought. Could make a cool plot hook and most likely at least 1 PC will be a Blood Mage and thus will already have a preference to one side. Or if no PC is a Blood Mage, the players collectivly choose a side and gain a contact with that faction of Blood Magi.

Edit: I'm starting to really like this class a lot.

drack
2011-04-12, 06:14 PM
Hmm, I think it's best to make one, than maybe go back and make the other. Though it couldn't hurt to compare them half done. :smallbiggrin:


let me see if I can guess what the abilities do:
Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood?

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist :smallbiggrin: (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP?

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting?

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes)

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood?

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them?

Blood Memory OK, you got me :smallbiggrin:

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know...

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good :smallbiggrin: (my half formed thought that is)

Blood Curdle what is this?

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant.

Bloodthirsty ... no comment

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing.

This is just my guesses and input, not the word of god :smallbiggrin: (nor that word of the silly voice in the back of your head)

Nanoblack
2011-04-12, 06:21 PM
Hmmm maybe hemoplague could drastically lower the amount of healing enemies receive after being damaged by your abilities? Like by half or something...

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 06:30 PM
Well, on the note of the blood mount, this is basically what it is:

The blood mage can take the corpse of a slain creature and bring it back as a bloody and fleshy representation of what it was in life. He can do this to creatures with a hit die equal to his class level + his con modifier. The blood mount has to consume blood every day, else he will take some from the blood mage in the form of con damage. The creature has to be mountable to be considered a mount. The creature retains all physical and mental stats it had in life, but is fully under the control of the blood mage.

Things I can't explain fancily: If the creature had spells or can use spells of any kind in life, it can no longer do so in this new form. Depending on the number of hit die the creature originally had in life, it gets new abilities granted by its new existence (haven't put this to pen yet, but basically more hp, physical stat bonuses, other things which might seem good, etc.).

drack
2011-04-12, 06:33 PM
... so a juiced animal companion which can exceed it's owner's HD... lower the HD a bit :smallbiggrin: (HD=con or something if you don't want this to be one of the major abilities of the class) (by major abilities I mean top 3-5 depending on how balanced they are, though this would be #1 or 2 out of them.)

Nanoblack
2011-04-12, 06:37 PM
Eh... I don't really see this class as needing a companion. If it does wind up getting one, it should be less for combat and more for utility. I actually really liked the blood elemental companion from the Sanguimancer. I even posted a thread previously trying to figure out a way to hide the darn thing.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 06:40 PM
Well, on the note of the blood mount, this is basically what it is:

The blood mage can take the corpse of a slain creature and bring it back as a bloody and fleshy representation of what it was in life. He can do this to creatures with a hit die equal to his class level + his con modifier. The blood mount has to consume blood every day, else he will take some from the blood mage in the form of con damage. The creature has to be mountable to be considered a mount. The creature retains all physical and mental stats it had in life, but is fully under the control of the blood mage.

Things I can't explain fancily: If the creature had spells or can use spells of any kind in life, it can no longer do so in this new form. Depending on the number of hit die the creature originally had in life, it gets new abilities granted by its new existence (haven't put this to pen yet, but basically more hp, physical stat bonuses, other things which might seem good, etc.).

I would add a clause about intentionally letting this companion go. I haven't been in any campaign where we killed something every single in-game day. Maybe putting it in hibranation? That way you can keep a really awesome companion during a down time in a city or someplace where you aren't killing things.

drack
2011-04-12, 06:45 PM
Eh... I don't really see this class as needing a companion. If it does wind up getting one, it should be less for combat and more for utility. I actually really liked the blood elemental companion from the Sanguimancer. I even posted a thread previously trying to figure out a way to hide the darn thing.

Yes, it had it's perks, but the xp loss afterwards would hurt, also for this one the daily feedings are a tad... well inconvenient to say the least.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 06:46 PM
also: Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood? Actually its forcefully ripping blood from enemies to fuel yourself and keep you up.

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell Think the eldritch blast or dragonfire adept's breath attack in blood missile form. Same idea.

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one Bloodhound gives you scent specified by blood, and blood mount I already explained.

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell You don't bleed, bleeding effects don't work on you.

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist :smallbiggrin: (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class You pump blood vicariously through yourself to boost some physical skills temporarily (so running, climbing, swimming, etc.)

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP? Bingo. Temporary hp pool generated through abilities. Only lasts per combat and if any is leftover, they can be shoved into someone else to heal them.

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting? An idea a friend of mine said. Basically think of it as efficient spellcasting. Wizards use gratuitous amounts of magical energy to cast their spells, and do nothing to gain that lost arcane power back. Blood Mages make use of it all with their spells. Basically they gain 1/2 of their hp back whenever they cast spells.

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes) Because they're cool, and technically shouldn't exist, but by awesome they do. :P

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood? Sense life in general. It's an actual ability you can find in Libris Mortis.

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them? When enemies have taken damage which causes them to bleed, it's naturally drawn to the blood mage. Each round they take one damage and the blood mage gets 1/fast healing. The more people damaged, the more fast healing. The more damage the blood mage has taken, the stronger the sap becomes (so like 2/fast heal at 50% hp, 3/fast heal at 25% hp).

Blood Memory OK, you got me :smallbiggrin: Blood acts as an extension of the brain. You get more skill points basically.

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know... Poison immunity AND the ability to contain poisons in your blood. Affects blood missile/if you get damaged/other.

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good :smallbiggrin: (my half formed thought that is) You make money from blood, which dissipates in X amount of hours, it being a concentration check result.

Blood Curdle what is this? Scream effect. causes fear and sickness.

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it Think of when vampires get nearly killed and poof into mist. Now think of it not only in those situations, but also per a certain amount of times per day.

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Disease immunity and your blood itself being a specialized disease.

Bloodthirsty ... no comment Aura of fear/illness.

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing. Ridiculously awesomesauce buffs, inspiration taken from the bone knight prc I believe?

This should clear up a lot of things... I hope. :smalleek:

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 06:50 PM
also: Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood? Actually its forcefully ripping blood from enemies to fuel yourself and keep you up.

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell Think the eldritch blast or dragonfire adept's breath attack in blood missile form. Same idea.

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one Bloodhound gives you scent specified by blood, and blood mount I already explained.

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell You don't bleed, bleeding effects don't work on you.

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist :smallbiggrin: (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class You pump blood vicariously through yourself to boost some physical skills temporarily (so running, climbing, swimming, etc.)

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP? Bingo. Temporary hp pool generated through abilities. Only lasts per combat and if any is leftover, they can be shoved into someone else to heal them.

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting? An idea a friend of mine said. Basically think of it as efficient spellcasting. Wizards use gratuitous amounts of magical energy to cast their spells, and do nothing to gain that lost arcane power back. Blood Mages make use of it all with their spells. Basically they gain 1/2 of their hp back whenever they cast spells.

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes) Because they're cool, and technically shouldn't exist, but by awesome they do. :P

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood? Sense life in general. It's an actual ability you can find in Libris Mortis.

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them? When enemies have taken damage which causes them to bleed, it's naturally drawn to the blood mage. Each round they take one damage and the blood mage gets 1/fast healing. The more people damaged, the more fast healing. The more damage the blood mage has taken, the stronger the sap becomes (so like 2/fast heal at 50% hp, 3/fast heal at 25% hp).

Blood Memory OK, you got me :smallbiggrin: Blood acts as an extension of the brain. You get more skill points basically.

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know... Poison immunity AND the ability to contain poisons in your blood. Affects blood missile/if you get damaged/other.

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good :smallbiggrin: (my half formed thought that is) You make money from blood, which dissipates in X amount of hours, it being a concentration check result.

Blood Curdle what is this? Scream effect. causes fear and sickness.

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it Think of when vampires get nearly killed and poof into mist. Now think of it not only in those situations, but also per a certain amount of times per day.

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Disease immunity and your blood itself being a specialized disease.

Bloodthirsty ... no comment Aura of fear/illness.

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing. Ridiculously awesomesauce buffs, inspiration taken from the bone knight prc I believe?

This should clear up a lot of things... I hope. :smalleek:

Correction: I'm really loving this class. I would love to see this class fully spelled out. I will gladly look through it and help in anyway possible.

Edit: I can't wait for this class!

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 06:58 PM
Wait wait nono I made a mistake.

Revised version: Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood? Actually its forcefully ripping blood from enemies to fuel yourself and keep you up.

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell Think the eldritch blast or dragonfire adept's breath attack in blood missile form. Same idea.

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one Bloodhound gives you scent specified by blood, and blood mount I already explained.

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell You don't bleed, bleeding effects don't work on you.

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist :smallbiggrin: (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class You pump blood vicariously through yourself to boost some physical skills temporarily (so running, climbing, swimming, etc.)

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP? The Edit: 1/2 right. Blood coffer is a temporary hp pool generated through abilities. Only lasts per combat and if any is leftover, they can be shoved into someone else to heal them. Blood Pool is literally collapsing yourself into a pool of blood, making you untouchable for a certain amount of time. In that time, if enemies are in range or touching the blood, they would make a reflex save. if they fail, they become trapped in the blood and take damage which heals you.

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting? An idea a friend of mine said. Basically think of it as efficient spellcasting. Wizards use gratuitous amounts of magical energy to cast their spells, and do nothing to gain that lost arcane power back. Blood Mages make use of it all with their spells. Basically they gain 1/2 of their hp back whenever they cast spells.

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes) Because they're cool, and technically shouldn't exist, but by awesome they do. :P

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood? Sense life in general. It's an actual ability you can find in Libris Mortis.

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them? When enemies have taken damage which causes them to bleed, it's naturally drawn to the blood mage. Each round they take one damage and the blood mage gets 1/fast healing. The more people damaged, the more fast healing. The more damage the blood mage has taken, the stronger the sap becomes (so like 2/fast heal at 50% hp, 3/fast heal at 25% hp).

Blood Memory OK, you got me :smallbiggrin: Blood acts as an extension of the brain. You get more skill points basically.

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know... Poison immunity AND the ability to contain poisons in your blood. Affects blood missile/if you get damaged/other.

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good :smallbiggrin: (my half formed thought that is) You make money from blood, which dissipates in X amount of hours, it being a concentration check result.

Blood Curdle what is this? Scream effect. causes fear and sickness.

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it Think of when vampires get nearly killed and poof into mist. Now think of it not only in those situations, but also per a certain amount of times per day.

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Disease immunity and your blood itself being a specialized disease.

Bloodthirsty ... no comment Aura of fear/illness.

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing. Ridiculously awesomesauce buffs, inspiration taken from the bone knight prc I believe?

drack
2011-04-12, 07:07 PM
If you don't mind me being blunt...


also: Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood? Actually its forcefully ripping blood from enemies to fuel yourself and keep you up. OK

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell Think the eldritch blast or dragonfire adept's breath attack in blood missile form. Same idea. ... I still think you're better off making this a spell...

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one Bloodhound gives you scent specified by blood, and blood mount I already explained.... as I said bloodmount is a bit too strong , and has a bit much in terms of feeding it (not to mention including quantity consumed 'hay I killed a fly today, it's cool', and bloodhound should just combine with lifesense

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell You don't bleed, bleeding effects don't work on you.how is this useful, after all who cares that much about a bit of bleeding damage, and second how than do you build up blood pressure, and contain so much extra?

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist :smallbiggrin: (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class You pump blood vicariously through yourself to boost some physical skills temporarily (so running, climbing, swimming, etc.)Fairly useless, and I'd say is one of those disposable skills that will just function as more for the reader to struggle with.

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP? Bingo. Temporary hp pool generated through abilities. Only lasts per combat and if any is leftover, they can be shoved into someone else to heal them.OK, than how about we drop one of the names?

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting? An idea a friend of mine said. Basically think of it as efficient spellcasting. Wizards use gratuitous amounts of magical energy to cast their spells, and do nothing to gain that lost arcane power back. Blood Mages make use of it all with their spells. Basically they gain 1/2 of their hp back whenever they cast spells.kinda weird, but than I'm gonna assume this isn't the one that can't cast spells? Plus if you get half hp back than you're getting cheaper spells, it's slightly unbalanced to suddenly double spells per day in one level...

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes) Because they're cool, and technically shouldn't exist, but by awesome they do. :Pwell than they can be cut?

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood? Sense life in general. It's an actual ability you can find in Libris Mortis.I knew what you meant, I was just trying to give it bloody fluff

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them? When enemies have taken damage which causes them to bleed, it's naturally drawn to the blood mage. Each round they take one damage and the blood mage gets 1/fast healing. The more people damaged, the more fast healing. The more damage the blood mage has taken, the stronger the sap becomes (so like 2/fast heal at 50% hp, 3/fast heal at 25% hp).well 1 for one is a bit... sounds good I guess, but remember bleeding stacks and I think is temporary

Blood Memory OK, you got me :smallbiggrin: Blood acts as an extension of the brain. You get more skill points basically.Another of those ones that mainly takes up space

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know... Poison immunity AND the ability to contain poisons in your blood. Affects blood missile/if you get damaged/other.combine with himoplague for just better Immunol response

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good :smallbiggrin: (my half formed thought that is) You make money from blood, which dissipates in X amount of hours, it being a concentration check result. ... I don't really see how this works, but there is a reason the spell this does this was removed after second edition... or at least I think there is

Blood Curdle what is this? Scream effect. causes fear and sickness.OK

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it Think of when vampires get nearly killed and poof into mist. Now think of it not only in those situations, but also per a certain amount of times per day.you turn gaseous... I'm not seeing it, but if that's how you want it...

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Disease immunity and your blood itself being a specialized disease.see above

Bloodthirsty ... no comment Aura of fear/illness.have it replace the scream at a slightly higher level

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing. Ridiculously awesomesauce buffs, inspiration taken from the bone knight prc I believe?do as you will

Edit: make blood pool a spell like tree shape

sscheib
2011-04-12, 09:19 PM
Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood? Actually its forcefully ripping blood from enemies to fuel yourself and keep you up. Ok this sounds awesome. Probably the primary way to keep yourself up.

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell Think the eldritch blast or dragonfire adept's breath attack in blood missile form. Same idea. Ok, cool. This should scale as you level up. Start with 1D6, maybe? Then it continues to get stronger as you level up.

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one Bloodhound gives you scent specified by blood, and blood mount I already explained. Not sure of the usefulness of Bloodhound. Can you elaborate more on that? Also, Blood Mount. Um. Well, yeah. Companion doesn't seem like a great idea. Also, it's super late when it comes to leveling. If you really want the mount, I'd stick to something that's like a Mount made from the blood of a fallen creature, or even your own blood, that you get at 5th level that resembles a Paladin's mount in terms of stats.

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell You don't bleed, bleeding effects don't work on you. I know someone said this isn't useful, but there are abilities that don't necessarily need to be super useful. It fits the fluff. But rather than having super thick blood, I'd maybe say that the Blood Mage has such control over his own blood that he wills himself not to bleed.

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class You pump blood vicariously through yourself to boost some physical skills temporarily (so running, climbing, swimming, etc.) At first I didn't think this made any sense for a mage-ish class, but if it's usable so often per day, like your Con modifier, then I guess it makes sense. I'd work it so you can give yourself your +Con modifier to Swim, Climb, etc. skill checks.

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP? The Edit: 1/2 right. Blood coffer is a temporary hp pool generated through abilities. Only lasts per combat and if any is leftover, they can be shoved into someone else to heal them. Blood Pool is literally collapsing yourself into a pool of blood, making you untouchable for a certain amount of time. In that time, if enemies are in range or touching the blood, they would make a reflex save. if they fail, they become trapped in the blood and take damage which heals you. Is Blood Coffer something that's like...activated by abilities? I don't think I know enough about it to say anything. Blood Pool is okay. So long as the damage/healing is ridiculous.

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting? An idea a friend of mine said. Basically think of it as efficient spellcasting. Wizards use gratuitous amounts of magical energy to cast their spells, and do nothing to gain that lost arcane power back. Blood Mages make use of it all with their spells. Basically they gain 1/2 of their hp back whenever they cast spells. If they gain back 50% of their HP every time they cast a spell, they should have waaaaaaaaaaay small amount of spells per day. I kind of like this.

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes) Because they're cool, and technically shouldn't exist, but by awesome they do. :P Ehhhh...this seems sort of ridiculous >.>

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood? Sense life in general. It's an actual ability you can find in Libris Mortis. Alright. Cool. Though, I'd say sense life through sensing the flow of blood. Even the warmth of blood. They should revel in this ****. I like the fluff.

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them? When enemies have taken damage which causes them to bleed, it's naturally drawn to the blood mage. Each round they take one damage and the blood mage gets 1/fast healing. The more people damaged, the more fast healing. The more damage the blood mage has taken, the stronger the sap becomes (so like 2/fast heal at 50% hp, 3/fast heal at 25% hp). I would make this an area effect. People within like a 15 or 20ft. radius of the Blood Mage who have taken damage cause the Blood Mage to gain fast healing.

Blood Memory OK, you got me Blood acts as an extension of the brain. You get more skill points basically. Meh, I'd cut this. I've not seen an ability that gives you more skill points and I don't think it works with this particular class.

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know... Poison immunity AND the ability to contain poisons in your blood. Affects blood missile/if you get damaged/other. I actually thought this would be more like attacking an opponent's blood. You change the acidity of your opponents blood to make them take damage over time until they can make a Fortitude save. But, hey. It's your ability. Your's is cool, too.

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good (my half formed thought that is) You make money from blood, which dissipates in X amount of hours, it being a concentration check result. This makes no sense. I'd cut it.

Blood Curdle what is this? Scream effect. causes fear and sickness. What if rather than a scream, you just actually curdle your enemy's blood? Causes sickness and Con damage?

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it Think of when vampires get nearly killed and poof into mist. Now think of it not only in those situations, but also per a certain amount of times per day. Soo...you are about to die and you poof into a bloody mist? What happens after you become mist?

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Disease immunity and your blood itself being a specialized disease. Disease immunity? Do all disease affect your blood? I don't know if this makes sense. What is cool is the idea that your blood can spread some sort of plague. Maybe you can create a vial of your own blood Con modifier times per day. Your blood then deals Con damage to whomever it touches. Eh?

Bloodthirsty ... no comment Aura of fear/illness. Guy covered in his own and others' blood? Yeah, I can see how people would fear that guy.

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing. Ridiculously awesomesauce buffs, inspiration taken from the bone knight prc I believe? Um, ok I got nothin.

Here's some ...well not revisions since it's not my place to revise, but rather some friendly suggestions.

Also, ability ideas. These could scale.

Blood Armor - +5 AC for 1 round/level. Basically, your blood flows to where you are about to be struck and blocks the blow.
Vicious Veins - After being cast, whenever an opponent strikes you with a melee weapon, your blood fights back and stabs them dealing Con Modifier + your Blood Mage level in damage. Reflex save. Lasts for 1 round/level.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 09:30 PM
Transfusion... might that be my idea of transferring over friendly HP, or is it gaining from stray blood? Actually its forcefully ripping blood from enemies to fuel yourself and keep you up. Ok this sounds awesome. Probably the primary way to keep yourself up.

Blood Missile sounds more like a minor spell Think the eldritch blast or dragonfire adept's breath attack in blood missile form. Same idea. Ok, cool. This should scale as you level up. Start with 1D6, maybe? Then it continues to get stronger as you level up.

Bloodhound/Blood Mount animal companion type? mount type? I'd pick one Bloodhound gives you scent specified by blood, and blood mount I already explained. Not sure of the usefulness of Bloodhound. Can you elaborate more on that? Also, Blood Mount. Um. Well, yeah. Companion doesn't seem like a great idea. Also, it's super late when it comes to leveling. If you really want the mount, I'd stick to something that's like a Mount made from the blood of a fallen creature, or even your own blood, that you get at 5th level that resembles a Paladin's mount in terms of stats.

Thicker than Water If this is a water walk type thing just go with the spell You don't bleed, bleeding effects don't work on you. I know someone said this isn't useful, but there are abilities that don't necessarily need to be super useful. It fits the fluff. But rather than having super thick blood, I'd maybe say that the Blood Mage has such control over his own blood that he wills himself not to bleed.

Blood Rush my best guess would be rage, but we can't really go through these in earnest before they exist (If it is rage I'd drop it with a mage-ish class You pump blood vicariously through yourself to boost some physical skills temporarily (so running, climbing, swimming, etc.) At first I didn't think this made any sense for a mage-ish class, but if it's usable so often per day, like your Con modifier, then I guess it makes sense. I'd work it so you can give yourself your +Con modifier to Swim, Climb, etc. skill checks.

Blood Coffer/Blood Pool bonus HP? The Edit: 1/2 right. Blood coffer is a temporary hp pool generated through abilities. Only lasts per combat and if any is leftover, they can be shoved into someone else to heal them. Blood Pool is literally collapsing yourself into a pool of blood, making you untouchable for a certain amount of time. In that time, if enemies are in range or touching the blood, they would make a reflex save. if they fail, they become trapped in the blood and take damage which heals you. Is Blood Coffer something that's like...activated by abilities? I don't think I know enough about it to say anything. Blood Pool is okay. So long as the damage/healing is ridiculous.

Arcane Vampirism (Spellvamp): Gains spellcasting? An idea a friend of mine said. Basically think of it as efficient spellcasting. Wizards use gratuitous amounts of magical energy to cast their spells, and do nothing to gain that lost arcane power back. Blood Mages make use of it all with their spells. Basically they gain 1/2 of their hp back whenever they cast spells. If they gain back 50% of their HP every time they cast a spell, they should have waaaaaaaaaaay small amount of spells per day. I kind of like this.

Blood Wings why does everyone need bloody wings? (no honestly, someone pleas explain why I always see this on these types of classes) Because they're cool, and technically shouldn't exist, but by awesome they do. :P Ehhhh...this seems sort of ridiculous >.>

Lifesense Sensing the flow of blood? Sense life in general. It's an actual ability you can find in Libris Mortis. Alright. Cool. Though, I'd say sense life through sensing the flow of blood. Even the warmth of blood. They should revel in this ****. I like the fluff.

Blood Sap the attack that heals you damaging them? When enemies have taken damage which causes them to bleed, it's naturally drawn to the blood mage. Each round they take one damage and the blood mage gets 1/fast healing. The more people damaged, the more fast healing. The more damage the blood mage has taken, the stronger the sap becomes (so like 2/fast heal at 50% hp, 3/fast heal at 25% hp). I would make this an area effect. People within like a 15 or 20ft. radius of the Blood Mage who have taken damage cause the Blood Mage to gain fast healing.

Blood Memory OK, you got me Blood acts as an extension of the brain. You get more skill points basically. Meh, I'd cut this. I've not seen an ability that gives you more skill points and I don't think it works with this particular class.

Toxic Blood Acid damage when you're cut? If so I don't know... Poison immunity AND the ability to contain poisons in your blood. Affects blood missile/if you get damaged/other. I actually thought this would be more like attacking an opponent's blood. You change the acidity of your opponents blood to make them take damage over time until they can make a Fortitude save. But, hey. It's your ability. Your's is cool, too.

Blood Money ... I don't know what to make of this, but whatever half formed thought my mind is conjuring up, it isn't good (my half formed thought that is) You make money from blood, which dissipates in X amount of hours, it being a concentration check result. This makes no sense. I'd cut it.

Blood Curdle what is this? Scream effect. causes fear and sickness. What if rather than a scream, you just actually curdle your enemy's blood? Causes sickness and Con damage?

Blood Mist could be interesting, quite a few ways to take it Think of when vampires get nearly killed and poof into mist. Now think of it not only in those situations, but also per a certain amount of times per day. Soo...you are about to die and you poof into a bloody mist? What happens after you become mist?

Hemoplague plague spreading is something best left to monsters, but I'm not sure that's what you meant. Disease immunity and your blood itself being a specialized disease. Disease immunity? Do all disease affect your blood? I don't know if this makes sense. What is cool is the idea that your blood can spread some sort of plague. Maybe you can create a vial of your own blood Con modifier times per day. Your blood then deals Con damage to whomever it touches. Eh?

Bloodthirsty ... no comment Aura of fear/illness. Guy covered in his own and others' blood? Yeah, I can see how people would fear that guy.

Blood Lord assuming an end of class big thing. Ridiculously awesomesauce buffs, inspiration taken from the bone knight prc I believe? Um, ok I got nothin.

Here's some ...well not revisions since it's not my place to revise, but rather some friendly suggestions.

Also, ability ideas. These could scale.

Blood Armor - +5 AC for 1 round/level. Basically, your blood flows to where you are about to be struck and blocks the blow.
Vicious Veins - After being cast, whenever an opponent strikes you with a melee weapon, your blood fights back and stabs them dealing Con Modifier + your Blood Mage level in damage. Reflex save. Lasts for 1 round/level.

A better way to explain blood armor is to have the iron in the bloodstream rapidly concentrate in those about-to-be-struck areas, because mass concentration of blood there makes me think of the skin acting like a water balloon...

sscheib
2011-04-12, 09:44 PM
A better way to explain blood armor is to have the iron in the bloodstream rapidly concentrate in those about-to-be-struck areas, because mass concentration of blood there makes me think of the skin acting like a water balloon...

Sure, that works. I hadn't really thought too much about the fluff on that one. I was just trying to think of new stuff. Those are potentially Blood Mage spells.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 09:47 PM
A better way to explain blood armor is to have the iron in the bloodstream rapidly concentrate in those about-to-be-struck areas, because mass concentration of blood there makes me think of the skin acting like a water balloon...

I would say this causes certain health issues, considering the body has very little ways to control iron. Basically it can intake it. Thats about it. It can't remove excess. It can't intake solid iron, so you can't just eat a steel girder. But then again, you are a spellcaster focusing on blood, so ya... throw logic out the window and say your blood magic allows proper reabsorption of the suddenly high concentrations of pure, solid iron and prevents any kind of poisoning of that much iron in a small area. I am not familiar with large amounts of iron being toxic, but most things in high concentrations are toxic to the human body.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 09:50 PM
I would say this causes certain health issues, considering the body has very little ways to control iron. Basically it can intake it. Thats about it. It can't remove excess. It can't intake solid iron, so you can't just eat a steel girder. But then again, you are a spellcaster focusing on blood, so ya... throw logic out the window and say your blood magic allows proper reabsorption of the suddenly high concentrations of pure, solid iron and prevents any kind of poisoning of that much iron in a small area. I am not familiar with large amounts of iron being toxic, but most things in high concentrations are toxic to the human body.

No no, it's not increasing the iron levels in him, it's taking what's already in his entire bloodstream and focusing it all on a single area to defend.

sscheib
2011-04-12, 09:56 PM
Or perhaps, you can just control the density of your blood. Allowing it to become like diamond for an instant. I really like the idea of the Blood Mage controlling his own blood.

And logic shouldn't be thrown out in all aspects. But this IS magic we're talking about...

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 10:04 PM
No no, it's not increasing the iron levels in him, it's taking what's already in his entire bloodstream and focusing it all on a single area to defend.

It's increasing the local concentration. Yes the total amount of iron isn't any different. The difference is, instead of blood having a uniform concentration of iron, a particular area has SO much that it becomes solid and thus increases your AC. That, could be toxic.

A thought just occured to me. You definatly need to make a point of adding fluff about eating a diet rich in iron. Lots and lots of red meats. Vegetarians are strictly prohibited from becoming Blood Magi. They are even scoffed at by Blood Magi, sometimes even refusing to fight vegetarians for they have "weak blood" and are "unworthy of our mighty practice."

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 10:06 PM
A note about any spells this class gets: One of the themes I wanted to have with this class is that they get it from a high lever outsider of sorts. Since there's such a wide range that the alignment can fit, it would span from CE Demon Lords to CG Archangels. But I'm digressing.

I thought that having lots of spells, specifically ones involved in teleportation or moving between dimensions would be cool, which is also the reason why I put the powers known on the table all the way up. In recollection, I agree with Yora: It's simply too powerful. Also I don't believe Warlocks have any teleportation boons, unless I'm mistaken (I bring them up because to be a warlock, you have to have demon blood in you).

So 2 things really.

1: Perhaps there should be a sort of "Blood Pact" that he's forced to make with a demon/outsider, where depending on who controls the pact, if he dies, his soul/servitude goes to that entity indefinitely until level 20 where the pact is completed. Also, for GM purposes the entity might send avatars of himself to visit the Blood Mage for either checking in or "go here and do this" purposes.

2: If we choose to do what I suggested above and completely remove any spells which would allow him to do all the fun transportation shticks a Wizard can do, a.) what spells should he have since it is now lesser and much more limited and b.) should he have a blood-teleportation ability?

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 10:30 PM
A note about any spells this class gets: One of the themes I wanted to have with this class is that they get it from a high lever outsider of sorts. Since there's such a wide range that the alignment can fit, it would span from CE Demon Lords to CG Archangels. But I'm digressing.

I thought that having lots of spells, specifically ones involved in teleportation or moving between dimensions would be cool, which is also the reason why I put the powers known on the table all the way up. In recollection, I agree with Yora: It's simply too powerful. Also I don't believe Warlocks have any teleportation boons, unless I'm mistaken (I bring them up because to be a warlock, you have to have demon blood in you).

So 2 things really.

1: Perhaps there should be a sort of "Blood Pact" that he's forced to make with a demon/outsider, where depending on who controls the pact, if he dies, his soul/servitude goes to that entity indefinitely until level 20 where the pact is completed. Also, for GM purposes the entity might send avatars of himself to visit the Blood Mage for either checking in or "go here and do this" purposes.

2: If we choose to do what I suggested above and completely remove any spells which would allow him to do all the fun transportation shticks a Wizard can do, a.) what spells should he have since it is now lesser and much more limited and b.) should he have a blood-teleportation ability?

I agree with the blood pact. You need to be careful though. It could be seen as too similiar to Warlock. Not to mention a blood pact wiht a CE outsider is decidely NOT a good act. So a Blood Pacts with XE outsiders vs. Blood Oaths wiht XG outsiders. Obviously, a GM has more to work with with XE outsiders as far as messages and controling the PC, but that doesn't mean the GM can't do it with XG outsiders, just not in a sinister way.

Blood Magus has an admittedly awesome blood-themed teleportation ability. I'd say take that and change it to fit your needs (and avoid copyright issues). What about a similiar ability with scrying?

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 10:41 PM
I agree with the blood pact. You need to be careful though. It could be seen as too similiar to Warlock. Not to mention a blood pact wiht a CE outsider is decidely NOT a good act. So a Blood Pacts with XE outsiders vs. Blood Oaths wiht XG outsiders. Obviously, a GM has more to work with with XE outsiders as far as messages and controling the PC, but that doesn't mean the GM can't do it with XG outsiders, just not in a sinister way.

Blood Magus has an admittedly awesome blood-themed teleportation ability. I'd say take that and change it to fit your needs (and avoid copyright issues). What about a similiar ability with scrying?

I was just using the CE/CG Outsider as an example... by all technicalities, the outsider could be a LG Archangel who happens to have blood powers.

With teleHemoportation, well, I frankly don't know where to go with it. I could scale it so it increases in scope and range, possibly even extending to moving across planes... ..actually that doesn't sound half bad :smallamused:
There would be an initial cost which scales as you level, and then additional costs whenever you want to take more people with you.

With scrying... I think that's stretching it a little. To me, scrying is more of a psion/wizard thing rather than a blood mage thing. I mean, yes you could have a blood mage ability which allows you to look through someone else as long as you're concentrating really hard, but I feel as if we would have to justify it too much to be there...

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 10:53 PM
I was just using the CE/CG Outsider as an example... by all technicalities, the outsider could be a LG Archangel who happens to have blood powers.

With teleHemoportation, well, I frankly don't know where to go with it. I could scale it so it increases in scope and range, possibly even extending to moving across planes... ..actually that doesn't sound half bad :smallamused:
There would be an initial cost which scales as you level, and then additional costs whenever you want to take more people with you.

With scrying... I think that's stretching it a little. To me, scrying is more of a psion/wizard thing rather than a blood mage thing. I mean, yes you could have a blood mage ability which allows you to look through someone else as long as you're concentrating really hard, but I feel as if we would have to justify it too much to be there...

I understand completely. It was just an idea I had off the top of my head.

As for TeleHemoportation, definatly scaling the number of people you can carry. Maybe have only the limit being your HP. Like when its first unlocked, each person including the Blood Mage costs 33% max HP. It slowly decreases to like 5% for each person. That way it can't be abused early on and require some restoration afterwards so you can't realistically just hop around. Maybe put a limitation based on blood. Like you can't teleport unless there is a significant enough blood (can fluff as meshing with the life-sensing, not enough blood, you can't locate it.) You can teleport to somebody specific as long as you have a vial of the targets blood. Adding extraplanar, maybe limiting it to the outsider your associated with's realm? Maybe make it so that when you "exit" and "enter" you come with a spray of blood. Does nothing except freak out the populous. I can see Blood Magi being frowned upon by general society so mostly Evil characters are Blood Magi but like stated before, Good characters can do it for attoning for past sins. Meshes even better with the whole outsider-Blood Oath. Pleading for a Solar to help you attone for a murder, he agrees and but says you must pay pentenance, thus become a Blood Mage. I'm on a fluff roll here.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 11:09 PM
I understand completely. It was just an idea I had off the top of my head.

As for TeleHemoportation, definatly scaling the number of people you can carry. Maybe have only the limit being your HP. Like when its first unlocked, each person including the Blood Mage costs 33% max HP. It slowly decreases to like 5% for each person. That way it can't be abused early on and require some restoration afterwards so you can't realistically just hop around. Maybe put a limitation based on blood. Like you can't teleport unless there is a significant enough blood (can fluff as meshing with the life-sensing, not enough blood, you can't locate it.) You can teleport to somebody specific as long as you have a vial of the targets blood. Adding extraplanar, maybe limiting it to the outsider your associated with's realm? Maybe make it so that when you "exit" and "enter" you come with a spray of blood. Does nothing except freak out the populous. I can see Blood Magi being frowned upon by general society so mostly Evil characters are Blood Magi but like stated before, Good characters can do it for attoning for past sins. Meshes even better with the whole outsider-Blood Oath. Pleading for a Solar to help you attone for a murder, he agrees and but says you must pay pentenance, thus become a Blood Mage. I'm on a fluff roll here.

*mental images of people suddenly having an entire party gushing out of their chest amuses me*

On the note of percentages/fractions: I and almost everyone else on GitP (with the exception of one homebrewer in particular) don't like them. Frankly, it makes the math easier, and doesn't lead to having say 2.74597979 hp lost.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-12, 11:18 PM
*mental images of people suddenly having an entire party gushing out of their chest amuses me*

On the note of percentages/fractions: I and almost everyone else on GitP (with the exception of one homebrewer in particular) don't like them. Frankly, it makes the math easier, and doesn't lead to having say 2.74597979 hp lost.

:smallamused: it amuses me as well.

I understand why people don't like them. Thats why calculators are so common and that even core rules incorporates fractions and always rounds them down. In the above example, you'd only lose 2 HP. And considering a d12 and Con as the major skill, 33% is a very large number to heal back, which is a limiting factor. Though you may want to start with 25%, that way you can transport a standard 4 person part, but knock yourself out in the process. If you use static numbers, you will have to make them scale with levels to keep the cost relevant and thus a limiting factor. % automatically scale, which is why I suggested them. You scale down the percentages to increase the number of companions you can transport.

TechnOkami
2011-04-12, 11:24 PM
:smallamused: it amuses me as well.

I understand why people don't like them. Thats why calculators are so common and that even core rules incorporates fractions and always rounds them down. In the above example, you'd only lose 2 HP. And considering a d12 and Con as the major skill, 33% is a very large number to heal back, which is a limiting factor. Though you may want to start with 25%, that way you can transport a standard 4 person part, but knock yourself out in the process. If you use static numbers, you will have to make them scale with levels to keep the cost relevant and thus a limiting factor. % automatically scale, which is why I suggested them. You scale down the percentages to increase the number of companions you can transport.

As much as I hate to say it, I can hear the flaming of the Playground already...

Your logic makes sense though, which is the frustrating part. Oh well.

Agh, I need to start writing things down and consolidating abilities on page 2.

drack
2011-04-13, 04:59 AM
make sure to include the rounding part than :smallbiggrin:

Zakaroth
2011-04-13, 05:16 AM
Awesome. For some time now I was planning to make a PrC based on a similar concept; blood magic. But I never got to finish it, heck never even got a real start. But you seems to have something going here, so, I'll throw in some of the ability idea's I had written down. Maybe you will find some use or inspiration from them.

Power abilities:
• Blood Funnel: Sacrifice Constitution points to empower a spell (or decrease general metamagic level increase).
• Blood is Power: Sacrifice hit points to increase spell DC (+1 DC cost = HP equal to spells level?, cap at a max increase).
• Blood Leech: Ability to consume the life force of another being to use as fuel for the Blood Funnel ability: Ranged touch; Deal 1d4 points of constitution damage. Next turn you may use the amount of points dealt in the cost of Blood Funnel
• Seize the Lifeblood: Paralyze/Control target with blood.

Recovery Abilities:
• Blood Ritual: Sacrifice X Constitution to heal yourself for Y amount.
• Blood Surge: A number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier, you may burn a spell slot in order to heal yourself. You gain fast healing 5 for a number of rounds equal to the spell level burned.
• Lifeleech: Something like the profane lifeleech feat (Lib Mortis).

Misc Abilities:
• Sanguinomorphea (say what?): Become a blood ooze and enter corpses.
• Sanguine Pact: Buff; Add charisma modifier as an enhancement bonus to your constitution score.

I think that the best way to make this class not go overboard is to grant it its own spell list, much like the dread necromancer. Maybe create some custom spells to compliment it.

Yora
2011-04-13, 05:29 AM
Those look good, except Blood is Power. That seems way to powerful. +6 to a single spell DC is extremely good when compared to other effects that increase spell DCs, and it would cost no more than one good hit with a dagger.

TechnOkami
2011-04-13, 09:07 AM
Well, I'll reiterate my previous statement: two separate versions of the same class will be made, one ability based and one more dread necro/spellslinger based.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-13, 09:24 AM
Awesome. For some time now I was planning to make a PrC based on a similar concept; blood magic. But I never got to finish it, heck never even got a real start. But you seems to have something going here, so, I'll throw in some of the ability idea's I had written down. Maybe you will find some use or inspiration from them.

Power abilities:
• Blood Funnel: Sacrifice Constitution points to empower a spell (or decrease general metamagic level increase).
• Blood is Power: Sacrifice hit points to increase spell DC (+1 DC cost = HP equal to spells level?, cap at a max increase).
• Blood Leech: Ability to consume the life force of another being to use as fuel for the Blood Funnel ability: Ranged touch; Deal 1d4 points of constitution damage. Next turn you may use the amount of points dealt in the cost of Blood Funnel
• Seize the Lifeblood: Paralyze/Control target with blood.

Recovery Abilities:
• Blood Ritual: Sacrifice X Constitution to heal yourself for Y amount.
• Blood Surge: A number of times per day equal to your Constitution modifier, you may burn a spell slot in order to heal yourself. You gain fast healing 5 for a number of rounds equal to the spell level burned.
• Lifeleech: Something like the profane lifeleech feat (Lib Mortis).

Misc Abilities:
• Sanguinomorphea (say what?): Become a blood ooze and enter corpses.
• Sanguine Pact: Buff; Add charisma modifier as an enhancement bonus to your constitution score.

I think that the best way to make this class not go overboard is to grant it its own spell list, much like the dread necromancer. Maybe create some custom spells to compliment it.

Personally, I would stay away from damaging stats. It can be too hasslesome and will have adverse affects on other abilities based on Con.


Sanguinomorphea (say what?):

The awesome part is, I understand what it means AND how to pronounce it! :smallcool:

Zakaroth
2011-04-13, 10:08 AM
Personally, I would stay away from damaging stats. It can be too hasslesome and will have adverse affects on other abilities based on Con.

I forgot to post one ability that allowed the Class to regenerate Con damage a lot faster than normal. So that it becomes less troublesome to deal with.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-13, 03:44 PM
I forgot to post one ability that allowed the Class to regenerate Con damage a lot faster than normal. So that it becomes less troublesome to deal with.

Unless that ability functions on a round by round or minute by minute rate, it will still be hasselsome. I'm guessing you recover Con Damage every hour like you rested for 8 hrs right? Thats great but I know of many situations where an entire adventure is within an hours time. So after a use or two of the Con Damaging ability, you can't really use it any more without severly crippling yourself.

drack
2011-04-13, 04:02 PM
well than you're clerics are likely getting a run for their money already, what's a little more :smallbiggrin:

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-13, 05:08 PM
well than you're clerics are likely getting a run for their money already, what's a little more :smallbiggrin:

Short of having your Cleric just up and ignoring the Blood Mage which he is likely to do if he has to prepare tons of Lesser/Restoration on top of healing the constantly draining HP bar. I'm sticking with avoiding Con damage/drain/etc. This is my opinion, TechnOkami can do as he wishes with the class.

TechnOkami
2011-04-13, 07:02 PM
Short of having your Cleric just up and ignoring the Blood Mage which he is likely to do if he has to prepare tons of Lesser/Restoration on top of healing the constantly draining HP bar. I'm sticking with avoiding Con damage/drain/etc. This is my opinion, TechnOkami can do as he wishes with the class.

Well, 2 things.

1. I never really enjoyed con damage either, unless I am the one giving and not receiving/self inflicting. So that probably won't make it into the class.

2. I was thinking that the only way he can heal himself is through his abilities. I thought this would act as a sort of balance to the class if he can't be healed by external means.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-13, 07:27 PM
Well, 2 things.

1. I never really enjoyed con damage either, unless I am the one giving and not receiving/self inflicting. So that probably won't make it into the class.

2. I was thinking that the only way he can heal himself is through his abilities. I thought this would act as a sort of balance to the class if he can't be healed by external means.

The main issue with 2 is that damage from outside sources will then be competing with the Blood Magi's own self-inflicted damage for his self-applied healing.

I'd either give him an ability that halves outside healing or prevents healing self-inflicted damage only. Thus a big bad monster can kick the Blood Magi around, Cleric heals, and Blood Mage starts slinging blood around or whatever. The main issue with preventing healing of self-inflicted damage is you will basically have to have 2 HP pools to keep track of, self-inflicted and not.

TechnOkami
2011-04-13, 07:47 PM
The main issue with 2 is that damage from outside sources will then be competing with the Blood Magi's own self-inflicted damage for his self-applied healing.

I'd either give him an ability that halves outside healing or prevents healing self-inflicted damage only. Thus a big bad monster can kick the Blood Magi around, Cleric heals, and Blood Mage starts slinging blood around or whatever. The main issue with preventing healing of self-inflicted damage is you will basically have to have 2 HP pools to keep track of, self-inflicted and not.

Ok. 1/2 as effective heal spells sounds more feasible to me. We can include it with his Blood Oath idea.

MesiDoomstalker
2011-04-13, 08:05 PM
Ok. 1/2 as effective heal spells sounds more feasible to me. We can include it with his Blood Oath idea.

Your blood is magically enchanted by the Outsider you make a Pact/Oath with and thus normal Healing spells don't completely restore them, just the non-magical parts. Like your blood, and blood only, is Celestial/Devilish/etc. energy that only your own abilities powered by the same energy can restore.

TechnOkami
2011-04-13, 09:10 PM
Your blood is magically enchanted by the Outsider you make a Pact/Oath with and thus normal Healing spells don't completely restore them, just the non-magical parts. Like your blood, and blood only, is Celestial/Devilish/etc. energy that only your own abilities powered by the same energy can restore.

I'd restrain from giving the blood a subtype and just say something like, "The blood oath has magically augmented your very blood. In place of the magical prowess you now hold in your hands, all outside healing effects are only half as potent when cast on you."

Element Zero
2011-04-14, 03:57 PM
Or you can keep both and call each a variant of the other. Even make some fluff about the antagonism between the two schools of thought. Could make a cool plot hook and most likely at least 1 PC will be a Blood Mage and thus will already have a preference to one side. Or if no PC is a Blood Mage, the players collectivly choose a side and gain a contact with that faction of Blood Magi.

Edit: I'm starting to really like this class a lot.

I've been lurking this thread for a while, and so far this is my favorite idea...I'm in favor of a pure caster, but that's just me. I'm extremely excited to see what you guys come up with...especially considering I've been waiting to see a Blood Mage class in DnD since I first picked up Dragon Age. :smallwink:
Don't know if that was the inspiration for this or not, but it's what it evokes in my mind.

TechnOkami
2011-04-14, 05:15 PM
I've been lurking this thread for a while, and so far this is my favorite idea...I'm in favor of a pure caster, but that's just me. I'm extremely excited to see what you guys come up with...especially considering I've been waiting to see a Blood Mage class in DnD since I first picked up Dragon Age. :smallwink:
Don't know if that was the inspiration for this or not, but it's what it evokes in my mind.

No no, my appeal to blood mages began far before dragon age was even a concept... though that doesn't mean I'm not taking inspiration from it. :smallbiggrin: