Playing Final Fantasy Tactics for the first time, advice? [Archive]

T.G. Oskar

2011-04-03, 05:16 PM

Keep Chemists for the first chapter and part of the second. Items, at that point, work better than spells because they are instantaneous and have a nice range. If you believe it's necessary to cast spells, start with Protect and Shell for your eventual White Mage and Blizzard/Ice for your Black Mage (because Goblins are vulnerable to Ice spells)

Since you're already on Igros, you might need to grind a bit to get a Knight. Once you get one, decide whether you wish to keep the Knight as one or go even further. I believe you can also change into an Archer pretty easily.

For Knights, don't go for [equipment] Break abilities, but rather [stat] Break abilities, starting with Speed Break. Even if the chance of success is about 23%, -1 Speed adds up real quick (before you get Slow, which is slightly more effective in that regard).

With Archers, neglect the Charge abilities. They don't add that much damage. Go for Speed Save ASAP, esp. if you have high Brave, because that way you get a swifter Archer the more they attack you (and that's pretty awesome). Later on, you might want to change into Thief, because you need to prepare your stealer (though most of the time you'll be fighting people with your same equipment in any case).

Don't invest much on Delita or Algus. As you know, Delita isn't even on your team at the very beginning and Algus...leaves even earlier.

For Ramza, you should choose what'll be your focus. Monks are surprisingly good in FFT, being partly healers (Chakra and Stigma Magic), having ranged attacks (Wave Fist and Earth Fist), and even sudden death moves (Secret Fist), not to mention the ability to revive allies (Revive). If you're willing to travel the extra mile, Samurai (gained by leveling Monk up to level 4, Dragoon to level 5 and Geomancer to level 3 IIRC) gains some surprising "sword abilities" that will be comparable to latter level characters (like Agrias, for example).

Most importantly: try to be at level 5 before reaching Dorter Trade City. The battle there is surprisingly difficult, given that you have two archers pelting at you from above and one or two spellcasters blasting you with spells. Try to have all your characters learn several abilities, in order to survive this battle. Chemists in this battle are wonderful, since while they get poor MP, they survive a bit better AND they can use Items at a range, thus saving some MP for what really matters (Protect and Shell).

ryzouken

2011-04-03, 05:18 PM

White mages are... less than impressive. There's a chance for your rezzes to miss, which will make you tear your hair out when your beloved, hard worked on character crystalizes randomly because your rez didn't land for 3 consecutive turns. In contrast, chemist items always land (as long as there's a clear line of effect to your target) and are relatively cheap. Also, Chemists get guns.

You'll want to consult a FAQ or two. Gamefaqs.com still has the applicable guides in their PSx section.

JP grinding is hilariously easy in that game. Make sure everyone gets the squire's +Atk boost, then equip Fundaments to whatever Job you're grinding JP for. Run around the map pumping your Phys Atk attribute for JP until satisfied. Makes grinding out the necessary job levels for Dark Knight a lot easier.

T.G. Oskar

2011-04-03, 05:59 PM

JP grinding is hilariously easy in that game. Make sure everyone gets the squire's +Atk boost, then equip Fundaments to whatever Job you're grinding JP for. Run around the map pumping your Phys Atk attribute for JP until satisfied. Makes grinding out the necessary job levels for Dark Knight a lot easier.

Try using the old names, and recall that the PSX version has no Dark Knight as a generic class (Gafgarion was a Dark Knight in that version)

Accumulate + Gained JP Up are good for farming JP, but that's not as necessary. It's good for Squire-side characters, but not necessarily for Chemists since they get to cast spells (if White Magic or Black Magic is equipped) and use Items, so they're never out of JP options.

Still, it's best to keep it easy for the first Chapter, then go all out on the second and third chapters. You don't get Ninja Swords or Katanas until much late, and you can't use properly the Throw or Draw Out abilities until then; Sticks and Books aren't gained until Chapter 2 as well, so Mystics are out of better combat options; Guns and Chemists equally (quite far into Chapter 2, though as a piece of advice, don't move from Goug Machine City until you've finished equipping your Chemists with Romanda Guns).

Tengu_temp

2011-04-03, 06:18 PM

Don't overwrite your main save if you can't move on the world map. Later in the game, you will have to fight two battles one after another, without the possibility to leave and do something else in between them. And the second battle starts you with just Ramza against a strong enemy. If you're not prepared for it and have overwritten your save, you're humped.

ninja_penguin

2011-04-03, 07:03 PM

What Tengu said. Make a backup save. And always make sure to update it whenever you're asked to save between battles. There's one that is a potential game ender, due to Ramza being curb stomped before you even get a turn.

The other one is less game-endery but can be hair-tearing frustrating, and you might want to go back and re-arrange people.

Also, if you like the plot, don't use mathematicians/calculators; if optimized even halfway, you can wipe out dudes so fast they don't get to say their lines. This made the end of the game make little sense to me the first time I played through.

ninja_penguin

2011-04-03, 07:09 PM

Any Lost Forever stuff?
Any advice for me?
Is there a way to speed up the text in cutsceens? The actucal characters move at a decent speed, but oh god is the narration slow... White mage with black magic or black mage with white magic?

1. There's a few bits here and there, mostly stolen from people. The Genji equipment is the biggest offender here, showing up in a chapter 3 battle. And held by a boss who will reduce your steal % by his brave %.

2. I thought there was a menu option for that. The first chapter is a particularly terrible offender, and it's never that bad again.

3. Black mages. White mages aren't too impressive overall, although yin-yang priests/oracles/whatever they were called I adored. Of course, your milage may vary, I had a female with a zodiac sign that let me 99% 'No action!' a chapter 1 boss, so she was bro-tier for a long time. I didn't know about zodiac signs at the time. Also, black mages have very good magic stats, and thus can use other things like summon magic and the like as a secondary well.

4. Also, monks are tons of fun.

Vonriel

2011-04-03, 07:23 PM

Oracles get life drain (I can't remember the actual name of the spell) and this spell will singlehandedly annihilate all the bosses in the game. Oracles are acquired by getting a white mage to level 2, maybe 3.

Use this (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/24010) job tree as a guide to getting whatever jobs you want. Note that, as mentioned, calculators are disgustingly overpowered and probably should be avoided. On the other hand, Dancers and Bards are amazingly fun, don't break the game too hard, and allow you to get tons of jp for basically free on whoever becomes the class.

Everyone gets Gained JP Up. EVERYONE. If you don't have enough jp to get it right now, don't worry, just make a few people in your main party squires. Something like 1/4 or 1/8 of all jp gained by any given character in a game is given to anyone else participating in the battle, in that job's jp pool. So, if squire A earns 20 jp, everyone else will get 2.5-5 jp added to their squire jp pool, whether or not they're a squire. I'm pretty sure this applies even to jobs a given character hasn't unlocked yet, as well.

Um, other advice. I don't recall if it's ever mentioned, but brave affects physical damage done taken and dealt by a character, as well as certain reaction abilities. For instance, the Monk job skill Counter will activate <brave>% of the time. Faith affects both magic damage taken and dealt, as well as the chance to actually affect a target with a spell. Anyone with the "Innocent" buff/debuff is effectively immune to magic, and anyone with <11 faith has the "Innocent" buff/debuff permanently, until their faith is raised.

If you've taken the time to explore the full character screen with the help cursor, you'll have noticed the signs. Good/bad compatibility affect everything done by one person to another. Healing, resurrection chances, damage, chances to hit. Bad compat means lower on everything, while good means higher on everything.

I'm not sure how much of the last two paragraphs are actually explained in the game, but I do know that it wasn't until my third or fourth playthrough that I actually found out about them. That's pretty much everything I can think of right now. Good luck!

deuxhero

2011-04-03, 08:04 PM

Vauron

2011-04-03, 11:45 PM

Suggestion: Remove everything of value from Algus. If he has something that someone else can equip, than take it from him and give him the worse stuff. Also I'd suggest removing Item from him, but then again, I often try to kill him in battle.

The max number of units you can command at a time is 6, although one of those slots can only be used by guests. As such, I generally suggest that you have at least 4 trained up characters, in addition to Ramza.

Also Blade Grasp is practically cheating.

Edit: Males are better at martial classes, while females are superior at magic classes. Note that females, and a secret character, get access to special perfume accesories that are just great in general. As an example, if I recall right, Chantage gives the equipped unit Reraise and Regen.

Vonriel

2011-04-04, 01:09 AM

Also Blade Grasp is practically cheating.

Aww, it's not that bad. I mean, it's only brave% chance to block any non-magic attack/action used on you by anyone anywhere on the map. It's not like you can assign blade grasp, equip an aegis shield, and equip a feather mantle to everyone and have walking engines of 'no' on your side. :smalltongue:

Looks like you have a solid build going, just be aware of the fact that you won't get any lances, katanas, or ninja blades until chapter 2, meaning that samurai and lancers will be lacking a weapon, and ninjas will be lacking a good weapon, until later on.

Malek

2011-04-04, 03:53 AM

Well another "practically cheating" thing in game worth mentioning is Orlandu. by merit of being, well, Orlandu. Calculators you at least have to work to get (which isn't easy considering their speed). Orlandu you get in a nicley wrapped package complete with good stats, absurd skillset and a sword that hastes him. Have fun.

Oh and seconding the comment on calculators being able to break the game. The one time I finished the game so far I played endgame with Reis (who whas highest MA gain from what I remember) trained as one. Combats were composed of her Holy-ing half of the map and Orlandu with ninja Ramza finishing up the rest of the map, usually before anything else moved :smalltongue:

ninja_penguin

2011-04-04, 06:29 AM

Calculators you at least have to work to get (which isn't easy considering their speed)

I just swapped them back to their regular casting classes. I also sent them on expeditions only, so I didn't have to keep their slow butts alive in combat. And then it was flare and holy everywhere with no MP and casting time.

Tengu_temp

2011-04-04, 06:46 AM

To make calculators work, you have to grind ridiculous amouts of JP - so much that your other characters will breeze through most plot battles anyway at that point. If you ask me, not worth it.

Ramza as a squire is actually very good, because he can use heavy armor and has better stats than normal squires. You will probably want to get into other classes to get their abilities anyway (I usually give him the ninja's dual wielding), but that's still a viable option.

I suggest keeping 4 generics at most. Use more and between them and your unique characters your average level will be too low for most plot battles, and you will have to grind. Grinding is no fun.

Tono

2011-04-04, 08:51 AM

Vanilla FFT isn't so bad that you should worry about leveling and optimization too much, but learning all the fun stuff can be intresting. Things like Sticks being able to out damage lances by late game, or using the invisible Dancer trick just leads to lol-situations. I would keep in mind that there is one battle in chapter 3 that you will have problems with the first time. Then the one following will make you want to kill an NPC, so just making sure that ramza is kept along a path with decent growths will save you a lot of headaches. (Read: not an Archer/bard)

As far as actual advice though, in Vanilla the highest level story battle is in the 55~75 range (Don't actually remember to be honest.) so grinding solves everything and is extremely easy. not to mention that if you do the optional side-quest and the end dungeon, you'll not only have characters with the best stats and jobs, but plenty of levels to never have to worry about the ending.

Discussing what breaks the game though is like discussing ways to shatter a thin sheet of glass with a decent sized rock, it doesn't matter how you do it because by end game you can run ridiculous set ups, and still run over everything. Hell, the Solo Ramaza Class Challenges prove that you can beat the game with just Ramaza with about any class. (I think TrueCalc and mime are the only ones not possible.)

dgnslyr

2011-04-04, 09:55 AM

Hoo boy, you have asked the right person.

Whittle down your starting party, because you really don't need six generics. You really don't need more than three generics at the most. Pick the ones with good Brave and Faith stats. You definitely want two high-faith god-fearing ladies, because magic is pretty strong with the right spells. Ladies get better magic stats and guys get better attack stats. For me, I went with three ladies, because I didn't know this and having more ladies is better.

If you really want to power game, fire everybody and go to the recruiting office until you get people with the Zodiac you want, but that's usually not worth the trouble. If you don't know, a Good-relation means +25% on all numbers, Bad-relation is -25%, and Best/Worst is +/-50 % with the corresponding gender.

White magic doesn't kill things, and is therefore less useful than black magic. However, Summoner kills more things than Wizard, and is therefore better. Have a summoner with white magic. :smallcool:

Personally, I ended up using just three ladies, two with high Brave and two with high Faith. On of 'em had good brave and faith :smallbiggrin:. When I say "high" or "good" in regards to faith, I mean around 70. You can raise this stuff later, but it's a bit time consuming.

As for killing things, Summoners are super-special awesome, because at this point in the game, an Elemental rod-boosted summon is enough to instagib most enemies.

Later on, once summoning ice goddesses doesn't cut it anymore, giving your mage the Samurai command is also very powerful, especially on high Magic Attack Wizards. Just don't give it to a physical attacker, because all its abilities are magic (but not faith) based.

As for the physical department, knights are kinda lame, and archers are a trap. Just get the pre-reqs for Ninja, and get the Martial Arts ability from monk for the ultimate melee-range beatstick. While monks have good supporting abilities, having two fists to punch with is better than one, and you can always stick Punch Art into your secondary ability.

Later on, you'll have more named characters like Agrias and Beowulf at your disposal. Of all the named characters with special jobs, I found theirs the most powerful. I got Agrias into Geomancer for the raw stats, and Beowulf can stay where he is, because turning people into chicken statues without acting talent is funny. Samurai-Mages will still rock, but by then, you might even have Calculator unlocked, and if you get JP for it in dispatch missions (they're way to slow to train normally), you can win (or lose) the mission on the first turn.

Also, train a Time Mage to learn Teleport ASAP, the best movement ability in the game. It lets you move anywhere on the map, with a +10% failure rate every panel past your normal movement. Basically, if you have 3 Movement, you can move 3 spaces unfailingly, 4 with a 10% failure to move, and 5 with a 20% failure to move. Failing makes you waste your turn, which is annoying. Try to get everybody Teleport as soon as conveniently possible.

Animals can be "poached" if you have a character with the Thief S-Ability Secret Hunt. By killing something with a physical attack using a character with this as his chosen ability, the killed animal will leave no corpse, and you are told "poach successful." Once the battle's over, go to the nearest trade city and go to the fur shop, where you can buy one item corresponding to the butchered animal.

Right after you get a certain gun-toting mechanic, there's a swamp chapter. Keep reloading it until you see a Uribo, a rare pig enemy, among the enemy ranks. Have a Mediator invite it, because those pigs are rare. While it may not have particularly good butcherable parts, if you leave it alone long enough, it'll breed, and there's a chance it'll breed a higher tier pig, like a Porky.

Then, keep your Porky around and it'll eventually produce a Wildbow. Keep a Porky and a Wildbow in your party, and breed off any extras until you have all the Ribbons and Chantages you need. Chantages are extra awesome because the Re-raise condition they bestow doesn't expire when you die.

Eventually, you'll want to raise the perfect thief. Have a female Saggitarius learn all the Steal Equipment abilities, and then Attack Up from Geomancer on top of that. Stick her into Monk with Attack Up for maximum stealing percentage. You will need to whittle down Elmdor's brave before stealing, and you can do this by using Talk Skills like Threaten or spells like Foxbird, or the insanely awesome Beowulf's Chicken. With his brave gone, you'll have an 80% chance to steal, compared to 6% without the perfect zodiac/ability/job and his brave still up. This is important, because that little turd has a set of permanently missable gear, and you don't want to miss it, right?

T.G. Oskar

2011-04-04, 10:32 AM

The thing about FFT is that, unlike other games, Zodiac interaction is not that important except for specific occasions (the battle with Elmdor being one of those occasions, and I did the poaching with a Steal-equipped Agrias of all people).

While I didn't really wanted to push it forward until the OP reached Chapter 2, there's at least three or four hurdles he needs to pass: one being Dorter (which he apparently passed), one being Golgorand Execution Site, one in Lionel Castle (a two-parter, and you're kept separate in the first one), and definitely Riovanes Castle (a three parter, the second battle is pretty hard with the wrong skillset, and the third battle is a "save the suicidal" mission...with people who love doing instant kill moves). Preparing a bit for those battles is a must; after Chapter 4, once you reach Bethla Garrison, the game's difficulty plummets to none (whether you recruit Orlandu or not).

Knights are pretty good (the only way a generic can use Knight Swords), but their skill set makes for pretty nice debuffing. Equipped on a long-range weapon (bow at first, gun afterwards) or alongside Two Weapon definitely maximizes the debuffing potential. A well-prepared character with Battle Skill can debuff a Tiamat to tameness, and it's a potent choice for the last secret battle against Elidibs (if you wish to learn his secret summoning spell). While I only found out this on the PSP version (because of the unit restraints in the PSX version), a Monk with Battle Skill and Two Weapon is much more lethal than a Ninja (because while the Ninja has great speed and innate Two Weapon, it's kinda frail in the soaking category and Throw is much harder to optimize). Of course, a "kill 'em all" personality might prefer getting to the action ASAP.

Speaking of Ninjas (and other stuff): the Throw command is based on Speed, and so do Dagger (and IIRC, Ninja Sword) damage. Throw's maximum range is based on your movement (so if you have Move 6, the range of the ability is 6) and deals damage equal to your Speed times the damage ratio of the weapon (might be wrong, calling it from memory). Jump (from the Lancer) also requires high Speed, since the faster you are, the faster you'll land; don't use Jump unless it's with a spear, since those do twice the damage.

Oh, and Blade Grasp might be all the hotness, but the Calculator's Damage Split is even worse. When you're hit, if you survive, you return half the damage dealt (and heal that amount), so it makes hitting you a threat. Use it on just about everyone; while surviving a 999 damage attack might not seem as much, if you have enough HP and survive, say, a 800 damage attack, you return 400 and take only half damage; better than over 90% of the Reaction Abilities out there. Once again, a show that Calculators are broken.

dgnslyr

2011-04-04, 01:09 PM

Personally, while Knights are great for debuffing, I tend to try to spend my turns killing things. Speed break, in particular is absolutely brutal. They're great if you want to wait around and grind some JP or tame a monster, but for killing things, not so much.

As for Ninjas vs. Monks, Ninjas can wear hats and therefore have more HP and physical attack(PA) if you use a Twist Headband. Ramza as a Martial Arts Ninja decked out with Power Sleeve, Twist Headband, and Bracers was killing squishier things with just one punch, to speak nothing of two. The extra speed also helps get to enemies quicker, which means punching them sooner.

The throw command is kinda meh-ish in my experience, but there's a certain comedic value in throwing a book at clergy.

Lancers are great when you have a good spear. *cough*Javelin II*cough* You actually don't want to be quicker than your enemies as a Lancer, because it takes 50 CT to land a jump, so if your enemies go right before you, not only are they closer, but they won't have any time to get out of the way either.

Javelin II and Escutcheon II are super-dooper-secret items. Later, on a mission at Nelveska temple, there are two pillars, each with a Hyudra sitting on it. You'll need to let the Hyudras float off the pillars, have a bulky monster (Reis, Worker 8) positioned adjacent to the two pillars at deployment screen, and have your two Move-Find Item characters with low Brave hop up and grab the loot. Beowulf and Rafa both have low brave, so they're useful for this purpose. I had to kill Worker 7 fast, otherwise he'll blast your party apart with his lasers. A Martial-Arts Ninja Ramza was able to two-punch him out, giving your party just enough time to set up and grab the loot before Worker 7 gets another turn and kills himself with his Work command, ending the mission.

ninja_penguin

2011-04-04, 01:27 PM

The Lancer ignore height ability is also pretty hilarious. They're allowed to go up as high as they want, but not down. It made for a rather funny mission when the boss starts on top of a tower. I had my lancer jump up the entire building and push the guy off, and the falling damage killed him.

My second playthrough, he had lines to say! what a shock!

dgnslyr

2011-04-04, 04:41 PM

Yes, it's hilarious, but Teleport is probably more useful, and Time Mage is probably easier to qualify for. I had my Draw-Out Time Mage hop up and Draw a Muramasa on him. That shut him up.

deuxhero

2011-04-05, 01:39 PM

Doesn't teleport ignore height as well?

Anyways, chapter 2!

Hunter Noventa

2011-04-05, 09:10 PM

Doesn't teleport ignore height as well?

Anyways, chapter 2!

And obstacles. But the chance of success is reduced by 10% for every square past your basic move. i.e. if your move is 3 and you try to Teleport 4 squares, you have a 90% chance of success.

KillianHawkeye

2011-04-05, 09:38 PM

Man, this thread brings back the memories! :smallamused:

T.G. Oskar

2011-04-06, 12:17 AM

Oh yeah, recommendation (hope it's not too late, and I know someone mentioned it but this one is crucial):

Before you reach Zirekile Falls, nerf Gafgarion. Basically: take his weapons and armor, remove his skills entirely. That should make Mr. Gaff pretty weak, unless you really wanna try stealing his stuff once he betrays you (though I heard that you still get his stuff even if you nab him, meaning you get stuff twice if you decide to steal from him). His equipment is quite good.

Also: again, make sure you've already set Ramza on what he's gonna be. Make sure you get the new abilities from the Squire class; they'll be useful for a while, before you get Shout which is just awesome.

Cespenar

2011-04-06, 01:42 AM

Also:

Damn you Wiegraaaaaaaaf! :smallfurious:

*ahem* Please continue.

Triaxx

2011-04-06, 06:36 AM

Grinding? To Knight? No. Unless he's been using nothing but chemists. Knight arrives at Squire level 2.

Me, I like to push for Ninja for Two Swords, and then slap it on a Monk. Double the Damage, double the fun.

Lancer is great even without spears. I use it with Knights in chapter one, and even on occasion on Chemists. Sound insane? Since Chemists are often the only ones able to heal/revive, keeping one in the air and invincible is often a good strategy.

Chakra and Revive are great martial arts, but both only work on precisely the same level.

And don't forget to pick up the BMG from GameFAQ's. It's got no spoilers, but is exactly what it says on the tin.

dgnslyr

2011-04-06, 05:31 PM

Wiegraf's not so bad when you have an unarmed Ninja with Concentrate. With enough PA from Twist Headband, Power Sleeve, and Bracers, you can knock him out without even using Martial Arts.

I prefer unarmed Ninja over Two-Swords Monk, because even without Martial Arts, a Ninja with PA-boosting gear can deal more than enough damage, while the Monk needs Two-Swords for two punches. Also, wearing hats means more HP, and more speed means killing things sooner.

Cespenar

2011-04-06, 05:56 PM

Yeah, but he's not "not so bad" when you're unspoiled, playing the game for the first time, and at the top of it all, not save often and in different slots. :smallbiggrin:

Tono

2011-04-06, 06:21 PM

At the point that a ninja can one-hit Wiegraf barehanded without the 3/2 multiplier from Martial Arts, you've already grinded enough to break the game to the point where optimization for story battles(Gogo Red Choco!) is mute anyway. And making your Zodiac that just for that point of the game seems, well, lame.

As far as the mage advice goes from earlier, keep in mind end-game that a physical attacker/special character is going to out-perform pretty much all magic based people. (With the possible exception of a super-MA Reis build, but w.e)

ninja_penguin

2011-04-06, 06:24 PM

Yeah, there are a few teleporting bosses who will go and gank any mages they see chanting. It's annoying, but can be used as bait, too.

Zen Monkey

2011-04-06, 07:27 PM

I personally like to have a party of a male and female warrior type, and a male and female spellcaster type. It lets you try out everything, while still having room for guests.

Calculators are very handy. Some people say they take a lot of grinding. I say those people must have made female calculators, because male spellcasters rack up experience like it's Monopoly money. How? Bards. Bards are leveling machines, with their quicker songs going off several times per round and generating JP at a ridiculous rate. Any male character (bards are only male) with the Sing skill as their secondary will speed through whatever primary skill they are grinding at the moment. When you're done collecting spells, switch Math to the secondary skill and you get all the broken glory with none of the speed drawbacks.

Oh, and while it's not ridiculously overpowered, monks can be very strong. On my last play I made the main character a monk with thieving skills, so that I could run up to someone, steal their sword, and then embarrass them in the ensuing slap-fight.

T.G. Oskar

2011-04-06, 07:46 PM

Actually, going solo Calculator isn't a bad idea either. They're slow as an old turtle wading through mud while having Slow cast on them TWICE, but their main benefit is having other ways to increase both XP and JP.

For starters, Accrue JP/Move - JP Up. They move slow, so it won't be a noticeable thing, and it doesn't stack with JP Boost/Gained JP UP. It may seem kinda weak, adding 2 JP per movement; still, you have ways to increase that movement rate without any movement ability, so that's a good starter.

Second: there are ways to increase SPD, even though they're few and far between. Thief's Cap, which should be gained very late but not that much, adds a strong +2 to speed, something that should allow them to act a bit more than usual.

Third: Adrenaline Boost/Speed Save. You don't want a Calculator getting damaged, but something like Throw Stone and high Brave can definitely rack up the points. AB/SS at 90+ Brave has a much, much, much better rate of return than the Bardic speed song, because the latter has about a 20-30% chance of success.

Fourth: level up two Calculators instead of one. That helps just about everybody, because they can remain on the back pelting themselves to raise their Speed while the rest of the people deal with the enemies. With the percentage of JP they gain, everybody in the group gains JP at a much smaller rate, so eventually they will be capable of investing on Damage Split, Gained EXP Up or Move - EXP Up to level even faster (though the latter two are not as necessary).

With all of that combined, you should master Calculator pretty quick, and end up with tools to level other classes just as quick (though you might want to switch Speed Save to Damage Split eventually).

Hyudra

2011-04-06, 07:57 PM

Missable Items/Events in FFT:

Chapter 1:
Mandalia Plains:
You're given two options. "Save Him" or "We must do our duty". Picking Duty gives Ramza and all his buddies bonus Brave. If you're doing a self-imposed challenge where you won't have access to mediators, this is one of the few situations where you'll be able to raise your Brave (2 points are permanent). Choosing to save him gives you added dialogue in the final battle of the chapter, but doesn't impact gained items or anything.
Chapter 2:
Araguay Woods:
You're given the option of helping Boco (incidentally, the same chocobo as in Fovoham Windmill). Different dialogue depending on whether you do or not, and changes the win condition. If you choose to save her, she joins your party after the battle. She's just a regular yellow chocobo, but she does have a special dialogue if you hit select and click on her name. I can't recall if it adjusts your brave as with the Mandalia Plains battle, but I believe it does.
IIRC, agreeing to save Mustadio gives you brave as with the Mandalia Plains battle.
Goug Machine City: You get the option of adding Mustadio to your team. Not adding him (or removing him from your party at a later date) prevents you from accessing a variety of special events in chapter 4.
Golgorand Execution Site: Using Agrias will show some extra dialogue. Doesn't impact items or events.
Also @ Golgorand & Outside Lionel: Gafgarion uses Blood Swords, IIRC, and I don't know that they're readily available after this (maybe poachable?) - They're fairly mediocre though, aside from the special feature, but just pointing this out.
Chapter 3:
Alma joins your party, she has some items that otherwise require poaching. It's worth taking them off her before entering Orbonne Monastery, as they're otherwise something of a hassle to get.
Malak asks you if you've read the Germonik Scriptures. This doesn't impact anything, but there's differing dialogue. IIRC, if you say no, he gives you a synopsis. I may be wrong there.
Save before entering Riovanes. This is the single most frustrating moment in the game for most new players, where people don't save outside, save after the first battle, and realize they don't have what it takes to beat the second (or second-adjunct) or third battles. Such people (of which I was one, once upon a time) are then forced to start over from the beginning.
Third battle at Riovanes, where you fight Elmdor, Celia and Lede. First chance, IIRC, to learn Ultima - have them use it and have Ramza get hit & survive it. It'll become a squire skill for him. Getting them to use it is kind of a pain though, since the AI generally uses what works and they tend to prefer the 100% chance to stop/instakill you over Ultima. May be better to wait for 'Outside Limberry' when you've got armlets protecting against said status conditions.
Rafa and Malak aren't necessary characters (they join at the final battle of the chapter) for events or items, but it should be apparent they have unique (if... unreliable) skillsets and are worth for that.
Chapter 4:
If you're a completionist, you'll want to note that the game has just enough room for your 6 generics you started the game with and the story characters. If you want to breed monsters to poach, I'll stress you should do that before inviting all of the story characters, or you won't have room for eggs.
Limberry Castle: First battle, another chance to learn Ultima, see second to last note of Chapter 3.
Limberry Castle: Second battle, Elmdor has Genji gear and sword you probably want to steal, as it never shows up again.
Subquest: Anytime in this chapter, go to Goug to see the 'steel ball' cutscene. Necessary for several events.
Subquest: See rumor in bar at Goland Coal City.
After that, go to Lesalia Castle bar to meet Beowulf. Agree to team up. This opens up a series of subquest battles at Goland Coal City.
After beating the series of battles, you're given the option to add Beowulf and Reis to your team. Do so, because they're required for events. You'll also get the Aquarius Stone...
With the Aquarius Stone in hand, go back to Goug.
Once you've got Reis and you've met Worker 8, there's a new rumor at the bar of Zeltennia Castle. It'll open up a new map. Despite the red dot, there's not necessarily a battle here.
Bervenia Free City: Meliadoul carries Defender and Chantage. These are poachable, but stealing them is a much easier way to acquire them.
Bed Desert: Balk has an ice gun. This is obtainable from random battles later, but is really rather difficult to get, so it might be worth your while.
Orlando carries some hard to get items (Excalibur included, IIRC). Have him join, if only to get them.
Zarghidas Trade City: IIRC, this is where the flower girl offers to sell you a flower for 1 gil. Do so, as its' required for a special event later.
Return to Goug.
You can now do the battle above Zeltennia. Note that the battle has two hidden items you can only acquire with move find item and some good movement (probably Lancer). The tops of the pillars hold special items, and I believe there's another in one of the corners of the map. Of these, one is a one-time-only, and others are rare (some only catchable from high level enemy ninjas when you have Catch equipped). Since this is a one time battle, it is your only real chance to grab 'em, and there's no guarantee you'll get the rare item (It's a choice between Escutcheon II and a regular crummy old Escutcheon), but low brave makes for better odds. Save and reload if necessary.
Note that the battle above Zeltennia removes the Holy Dragon Reis from the party. You do get someone else/better/arguably more interesting though.
Once you've got the Cancer stone, go back to Goug. Cutscene.
Only after you've done enough of the main story to have been to Igros (again) and defeated the Lucavi there can you go to Zarghidas, complete the battle and rescue the character there.
Once you've defeated Vampiric Z at Murond Holy Place, you can go to Zarghidas for a rumor to open up a secret dungeon. Many secret items within findable with Move Find Item (be sure to get the rare ones). High level Ninjas can also throw rare swords at you, which are collectable with Catch.
The enemy boss at the end of the secret dungeon has a special summon. Get hit with it and survive to learn the summon. Try to do this with as many people as possible since it's inconvenient (as summons don't damage allies, you'd need to be confused/berserk to hit your teammates and have them survive it to learn it).
The very top of Bervenia Volcano has a Move-Find-Item findable sword, needed for a special character to use his skills.
Second battle of Murond: Meliadoul has dialogue if you bring her into it. Nothing essential.
Note that Ramza can learn Ultima from Celia, Lede or Ultima Demons, if hit by it and survives. The third battle at Murond is the last chance to do so.
After Murond, Orbonne Monastery is the last set of battles. Once entered, you can't leave or go to the main story again.

That's mostly everything I can think of. It's a little disordered though. Reaching back years here, because as of the past while, I've only been doing SCCs, and haven't had to worry about most of it (or it's essentially automatic).

Tono

2011-04-06, 08:20 PM

IIRC you cannot get Ultima on Ramza in chapter 3. Its a different squire class. Whats his name from WotL can, but not Ramza. That may be wrong though. (And if you can, its kinda difficult. I think you would need a Naked Archer near Ramza just to have a chance that the two assasins would use it on you instead of suicide girl) WotL, 1.3 and Vanilla have mingled my mind a bit.

And I think Elmdor's sword can be found in other places. Its the 'ultimate'
Katana right? (Chirijimori? IDK) I beleive that can be found in other places like DD. I think catch is required though? I don't quite remember. I hate Katanas and its been a while since I've done it.

dgnslyr

2011-04-06, 09:21 PM

Nope, Elmdor's weapon of choice is the Masumane, and it only shows up in his hands. The only other way to get it is by having a level 95+ enemy Ninja throw it at you, then catching it. I take it that's out of the question.

The other unique katana is the Chirijiraiden, or whatever it's called. That's the one you get with Move-Find Item in the Deep Dungeon.

For the Elmdor fight, you'll need the perfect thief if you want the best chance at stealing his gear.
Namely, a thief with:
Female gender + Sagittarius Zodiac for Best Compatibility (+50%)
Attack Up support ability (boosts Steal %... somehow)
and Monk, for innate Martial Arts (also mysteriously boosts Steal %)

You'll want the Monk class, because it gets Martial Arts innately, and you can only assign one support ability. Also, you'll want somebody else be ready to lower Elmdor's brave, because he has Blade Grasp, which reduces the accuracy of physical attacks by a percent equal to his Brave score. Drop it to zero, and he'll be (slightly) defenseless. Naturally, all the Steal: Equipment abilities are mandatory if you want all five pieces of gear.

Gear-wise, you definitely want a Chantage, a perfume you get by butchering a Wildbow. It revives you a turn after you die, which is just in time to get another turn in. It doesn't expire after one use per battle, too, unlike the Angel Ring.

To get a Wildbow, you'll need to raise an Uribo, have it breed a Porky, and then eventually your Porky will breed a Wildbow.

All monsters will leave an egg after being left in the party for a while, and there is a chance any egg will be a higher or lower tier monster of the same type. So, a Chocobo may leave a Chocobo egg or a Black Chocobo egg, which may in turn leave either a Chocobo or Red Chocobo egg, in addition to Black Chocobo eggs. Naturally, the odds of going up a tier are smaller than staying on the current one.

An Uribo can be found in the swamp mission right after recruiting a certain gun-slinging mechanic. You can recruit it by having a Mediator invite it. You might have to knock your esteemed guest unconscious, because if you don't, his loose trigger finger may shoot your mark.

Also, it's a good habit to keep two separate save files. Use one (or both) regularly, but designate a save file for the serial missions, where you don't get a break between missions.

Hyudra

2011-04-06, 09:34 PM

[geeking out]

Attack Up support ability (boosts Steal %... somehow)
and Monk, for innate Martial Arts (also mysteriously boosts Steal %)

The reason Steal is modified by those is because it uses the same formula as an attack:

success% = (Caster's Speed + K) * (evasion factor)
Where K is respective to the ability (90 for gil, 70 for exp, 40 for helmet/accessory, 35 for armor/shield, 30 for weapon) and 'evasion factor' is the dodge % the target gets from evade, mantles, shields, weapon guard, blade grasp and so on.

Attack Up basically takes attack-like abilities and buffs the attack to [Attack Stat * 4/3]. Speed for daggers, PA for most, MA for sticks, and so on. So the formula becomes % = [(Caster's Speed * 4/3) + K] * (Evasion Factor).

Martial Arts does the same thing to all non-MA stats, buffing them to [Attack Stat * 3/2] for the purposes of abilities. Attacks that are weapon-elemental (Attack, charge, battle skill, snipe and sword skills) will not grant this bonus unless you're barehanded. Given the gap (Steal is stat derived but isn't weapon elemental), it grants the bonus.

[/geeking out]

Oh wait...

[minor geekout]

Also, it's 'a uribo' rather than 'an uribo', presuming that it's pronounced you-reebo, as we only use 'an' for vowel ~sounds~ rather than words that start with vowels (which is why honor is 'an honor'), and we don't count the 'y' sound there (which is why we don't say, "I bought an yellow car.").

[/geekout]

Seerow

2011-04-06, 09:37 PM

Lots of FFT fans here. Does Supertact mean anything to anybody here?

dgnslyr

2011-04-06, 11:28 PM

Well, I can't exactly use "uribo" grammatically if I've never seen the word outside of a text medium.

How many of you guys have seen Orange Fluffy Sheep's FFT LP over at Something Awful? I used to keep up with it, but their forums seem to be intermittently blocked to lurkers without an account.

Triaxx

2011-04-07, 10:44 AM

Seerow

2011-04-07, 10:48 AM

The difference between unarmed Ninja's and Two Swords Monks is the secondaries. An unarmed Ninja can do more damage from longer range than a Monk can, plus have Punch Arts, but a Two Swords Monk has the opportunity to lay out the Geomancy smack down.

The other difference is base stats. From a pure skillset perspective, the monk skillset >>>> Throw, but Ninjas stats are awesome. Having an extra couple points of speed really makes a huge difference.

ninja_penguin

2011-04-07, 11:35 AM

I personally like to have a party of a male and female warrior type, and a male and female spellcaster type. It lets you try out everything, while still having room for guests.

I'll also admit that I would blatently favor certain class/gender combinations based on how much I preferred the sprites.

Toofey

2011-04-07, 02:19 PM

Hey, an essential piece of information is that both FFT and FFTA are inherently sexist. Girls are always better at magic and boys are always better at fighting (it's an adjustment to their base attack and magic scores so it outweighs the brave and faith stats) therefore make sure you get high faith girls and high brave boys and play girls as mages and boys as fighters.

The only exception is the player's character who's starting scores both for attack and magic attack are 4.

Hyudra

2011-04-07, 02:25 PM

Not sure where I heard it, but I desperately wish it were true - that Rad and Lavian were cross dressers (had stats of the opposite gender). I read a fancomic that said such too, reinforcing the notion. It would be so nice to do some SCCs and have some diversity among my team members (rather than, say, a team of Ramza + 4 identical male squires)... even if I were technically breaking the rules of the SCC by getting them the appropriate job.

Even in the SCCs I've gotten around to finishing (Thief, geomancer, chemist, samurai), it's been of classes that benefited from a mixed composition:
Thief SCCs benefit from male thieves due to better dagger stats, while female thieves can charm the more common male enemies & benefit from chantage/perfume.
Geomancer males have better raw attack stats. Geomancer females have better geomancy.
Ditto for Samurai.
Worth having a female chemist along for the elemental gun(s) if you intend to try and get such.

Wonder if I could hack such into the game (male sprite for female character, or vice versa) without screwing stuff up.

Hey, an essential piece of information is that both FFT and FFTA are inherently sexist. Girls are always better at magic and boys are always better at fighting (it's an adjustment to their base attack and magic scores so it outweighs the brave and faith stats) therefore make sure you get high faith girls and high brave boys and play girls as mages and boys as fighters.

The only exception is the player's character who's starting scores both for attack and magic attack are 4.

You generally want high brave on everyone, unless you're looking to use Move Find Item, which is the only thing in the game that benefits from Low Brave (well, there's the Rafa/Malak dynamic, but nobody uses them).

Also, it's worth stressing that Ramza's stat growth for PA is as though he were male and his growth for MA is that of a female. It works out to being much larger than a one point difference by the time you're level 50ish.

Tono

2011-04-07, 02:30 PM

You can. I did it once to make my gay thief. And to make Ramza set as female so that I could get Dancer for an All Dancer SCC, which I sadly never finished. It was a little weird though as using a GS as the sprite in and out of battle looks different. You may also be able to do something with the stuff they have over at Hackticks, but I have very limited knowledge of that, so I am not sure.

Hyudra

2011-04-07, 02:59 PM

Yeah, I was over there at one point, but got lost in all the technobabble.

Triaxx

2011-04-07, 05:40 PM

Well, remember that Throw is calculated as 'damage = (Caster_Speed * ThrownWeaponPower)'

Thus a Ninja with Throw works better than a Monk with Throw.

Seerow

2011-04-07, 08:40 PM

Meh, SCCs are easy. SSCCs are way more fun. It's not a challenge until you're spending more time outside of a fight planning how to get through it than you are actually in the battle.

Speaking of, did anyone ever complete the True Calc SSCC? I know that someone got into chapter 3 around the time I stopped posting on GameFAQs.

dgnslyr

2011-04-07, 09:31 PM

I believe there's a Time Mage in the Deep Dungeon sometimes known as the "Drag Queen." Basically, it's a "female" unit that uses male sprites.

As for Throw, I find it rather meh-ish, though throwing Books at people has enough comedic value to make Ninja that much better than Monk. It relies on Speed, though, which is trickier to pump up than Physical Attack, so I find running Teleporting in and punching people more effective.

I've heard good things about Geomancy, but while the stats on Geomancer are pretty awesome, I've never found Geomancy to hit very hard. Maybe it's because I haven't tried very hard to optimize it, but it just seems a bit... lackluster. Agrias makes a good Geomancer, because her Holy Swords benefit from Geomancer stats and equipment, but her Lightning Stab and Holy Explosion are just too powerful to not use.

Hyudra

2011-04-07, 10:54 PM

Speaking of, did anyone ever complete the True Calc SSCC? I know that someone got into chapter 3 around the time I stopped posting on GameFAQs.

I read somewhere that at least three people had attested to beating it, but that there was some sketchy bending of the rules in the process (getting to level 99 by training via. an endless loop vs. an enemy with self healing in the final series of battles, playing with a full roster of calcs in one's party and rotating through them in random battles to keep them up to date, so you could afford to have some crystallize in the hardest battles).

Oh, Truecalc SSCC? Yeah, that's ridiculous.

As for Throw, I find it rather meh-ish, though throwing Books at people has enough comedic value to make Ninja that much better than Monk. It relies on Speed, though, which is trickier to pump up than Physical Attack, so I find running Teleporting in and punching people more effective.

I got fairly far in a ninja SCC before getting bored (see above comment about boring team of Ramza + 4 identical males). Let it be known that throwing flails and axes can deal pretty impressive damage (since you're not getting the randomly low damage).

I've heard good things about Geomancy, but while the stats on Geomancer are pretty awesome, I've never found Geomancy to hit very hard. Maybe it's because I haven't tried very hard to optimize it, but it just seems a bit... lackluster.

And again, speaking from SCC experience, Geomancy is deceptively good. Not only are there some mean status conditions you can apply (with a not horrific chance at it), but while the damage isn't huge, it's far reaching (vertically and horizontally), AoE and can't miss.

Seerow

2011-04-07, 11:24 PM

I read somewhere that at least three people had attested to beating it, but that there was some sketchy bending of the rules in the process (getting to level 99 by training via. an endless loop vs. an enemy with self healing in the final series of battles, playing with a full roster of calcs in one's party and rotating through them in random battles to keep them up to date, so you could afford to have some crystallize in the hardest battles).

Oh, Truecalc SSCC? Yeah, that's ridiculous.

Yeah, I knew SCC had been done. I think the first person to do it was a frequenter of an IRC channel I hung out in for several years. But the SSCC got stuck somewhere in chapter 3, I'm guessing probably a Velius, but could be earlier.

I personally never went that hardcore. I did a Geomancer SSCC, and then a Holy Swordsman/Assassin one for ****s and giggles (worth noting: Assassin is much faster until you get to enemies immune to petrification, then it suddenly becomes really hard. Like Wiegraf/Velius I stalled out on for a good while as assassin, and had similar problems again in the fight against Samurai guy + 2 assassins. Meanwhile Holy Swordsman just gets better as you go on. I think I cleared the Holy Swordsman in about 10 hours with no preplanning)

And again, speaking from SCC experience, Geomancy is deceptively good. Not only are there some mean status conditions you can apply (with a not horrific chance at it), but while the damage isn't huge, it's far reaching (vertically and horizontally), AoE and can't miss.

Yeah, Geomancy is just awesome. It's also helps however to optimize your stats for Geomancy (since the formula uses both PA and MA, if you're relying on the Geomancy a lot as opposed to hitting stuff with swords, you want to balance out the MA and PA via gear and you can see really decent numbers (like 200+ hits).

Triaxx

2011-04-08, 09:33 AM

Yes, UltimaterializerX, a friend of mine, did succeed at Truecalc. And he even posted a guide detailing his efforts on GameFAQ's if you want to read it.

Hyudra

2011-04-08, 09:57 AM

Yes, UltimaterializerX, a friend of mine, did succeed at Truecalc. And he even posted a guide detailing his efforts on GameFAQ's if you want to read it.

I read that myself in my own personal stab at doing TrueCalc. I got fed up with it partway through chapter 2 though (Lionel was where I got stalled, I think). The guide is worth reading for it's in depth detail and information on the game alone, even if you're not planning on the masochistic Truecalc SCC yourself.

Seerow

2011-04-08, 10:24 AM

Yes, UltimaterializerX, a friend of mine, did succeed at Truecalc. And he even posted a guide detailing his efforts on GameFAQ's if you want to read it.

That was the SCC. I know several people had finished that. I'm talking about an SSCC (ie same restrictions, plus no party members, only ramza). I believe it was sqpat working on it (he had a tendency to focus on what hadn't been done yet. He nabbed first on at least 3 different SSCCs). I just checked the SSCC guide, and the only thing I see is CirclMastr's FullCalc SSCC, which is a joke.

Tengu_temp

2011-04-08, 02:21 PM

I'll also admit that I would blatently favor certain class/gender combinations based on how much I preferred the sprites.

I do that too. Some Most of the female classes are just too cute. I always get a dancer for this reason, even though it's far from the strongest classes out there.

dgnslyr

2011-04-08, 02:32 PM

Heh, I just have all my generics female, just because more ladies is better. That, and magic is awesome. Like Wizard with Draw Out, with MA boosting gear? Insane! And Calculators are the most crazy powerful class that ever existed, but only when you stick Math Skill on a mage that doesn't suck, because Calculators have garbage stats.

Hyudra

2011-04-08, 02:59 PM

I think, after figuring out how to hack my game to have a female sprite for a male squire, I'll be doing a Squire SCC. I've been meaning to for a while. Not 100% decided on whether I'll do it with Ramza as Ubersquire or standard restrictions. Tending towards the latter, though having to constantly wrangle the 'best fit' and whatnot and restart if Ramza starts with Wish and uses it while confused is just a pain in the arse.

I wonder if doing a squire SCC sans accumulate would be more interesting/challenging. I don't want it to boil down to running away while accumulating for a few turns and then charging blindly in.

Seerow

2011-04-08, 03:22 PM

Klorox

2011-10-11, 11:32 AM

Seerow

2011-10-11, 12:02 PM

I'm really glad I found this thread, as I've recently started a game of FFT on my PSP.

I have read many times over that Females are better casters, and Males make better warriors.

Right now, my party is Ramza (squire), Delita (squire), another male squire (68/59 Brave/Faith), and two female chemists (66/74 and 63/70). Most characters are still first level. Some of my initial characters had pretty low Brave/Faiths (like, in the 40's), so I dismissed them and hired one female squire, and changed her into a chemist right away.

I plan on keeping the males squires and females chemists for now. I've read over and over on how these classes are better than trying to be low level casters and knights early on (although I really am tempted to switch somebody into a knight).

I don't see any need for any more generic characters, but if there is one, please advise me NOW and I'll hire one more character (1400 gil is a lot at this point, but I'd rather make the investment now).

Yeah, you don't need more than 4 generics, and you can honestly get by with only 1 or 2 and getting the special characters as you go.

Also it's worth noting that low faith CAN be useful for physically based characters. Or for a Samurai (who uses MA for all of their abilities but not Faith). Because while low faith reduces your magic, it also reduces the effects of magic on you. A character with 3 faith is basically immune to any magic, while a character at 97 faith is going to get raped by even the weakest spells. While you want higher faith on your casters to up their damage, unless you plan on using a lot of buff spells, you're better off with lower faith on non-casters.

Klorox

2011-10-11, 01:49 PM

Yeah, you don't need more than 4 generics, and you can honestly get by with only 1 or 2 and getting the special characters as you go.

Also it's worth noting that low faith CAN be useful for physically based characters. Or for a Samurai (who uses MA for all of their abilities but not Faith). Because while low faith reduces your magic, it also reduces the effects of magic on you. A character with 3 faith is basically immune to any magic, while a character at 97 faith is going to get raped by even the weakest spells. While you want higher faith on your casters to up their damage, unless you plan on using a lot of buff spells, you're better off with lower faith on non-casters.

Interesting about the low Faith. Is a 59 too high on my generic male squire (who I plan on making into some kind of combatant)?

EDIT: Are there any drawbacks to a high Brave stat?

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-11, 02:56 PM

Interesting about the low Faith. Is a 59 too high on my generic male squire (who I plan on making into some kind of combatant)?

EDIT: Are there any drawbacks to a high Brave stat?

What you want your faith to be is entirely subjective. A character with 03 faith is damn near immune to magic (which includes helpful magic like Protect and Cure- but there are ways to buff and heal without magic, though), but is going to suck at using magic himself. 59 being too high or too low depends entirely on the preferences of the player. Personally I don't futz around with Faith much because the game is easy enough to break without cheesing stuff to hell and back, but I like it to be around 60.

The ONLY drawback to having a high Brave is if you're trying to find stuff via the Chemist's Move-Find Item ability; Normally certain tiles always have a trap, like Steel Needle, Degenerator, Sleep, etc. But a character with Move-Find Item as his move ability will automatically avoid the trap and get an item when standing on that tile.

Each trapped tile has two items, a good one and a crappy one. The chance of finding a crappy item is equal to your Brave score, while the chance of finding the good item is 100 minus your Brave score (so a Brave 87 character has an 87% chance of getting the crap item and a 13% chance of getting the good one.)

Brave affects most reaction abilities (it doesn't affect Abandon and Weapon Guard, which are always active) and the attack power of fists, Knight swords, and katanas.

Barring the Move-Find Item situation, there are zero downsides to having a high Brave (besides making the game too easy, anyway.)

ALSO: deuxhero! If the game asks you if you want to save, and you just finished a storyline battle, SAVE IN A DIFFERENT SLOT! There's one storyline fight that trips up almost everyone the first time they play, and you won't be able to leave the area and go fight random battles to grind up abilities. MANY players have had to start over after getting stuck at this fight.

Klorox

2011-10-12, 09:16 AM

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

How did you guys go about the jobs? Did you stick with a single job for a long time, or just keep dabbling back and forth between jobs?

Klorox

2011-10-12, 10:31 AM

One more question: I know that men are generally better fighters, and women are generally better magic users, but is it really a big difference?

I ask because I read this hint:

Bags, hair adornments, lip rouge, perfume, and the Minerva Bustier can only generally be equipped only by female characters. (Male Onion Knights can also use all of these items, and Cloud can equip hair adornments.) There are no male-exclusive items. These female-only items include some of the best items in the game, such as the Ribbon, Tynar Rouge, and Chantage -- which means that in the long run, female characters tend to end up more powerful than males.

This is making me reconsider starting over and building an all female generic team. I already messed up because I ran into a "random encounter" and it allowed for 5 characters. I had dismissed the characters I never thought I'd use, and only had 4 to fight with. While I passed this encounter, I am worried that there might be more in the future that are more difficult and I don't want to screw myself by playing short-handed.

Toastkart

2011-10-12, 10:54 AM

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

How did you guys go about the jobs? Did you stick with a single job for a long time, or just keep dabbling back and forth between jobs?

For me, it depends on the team setup that I'm going for. I'm playing through the game right now, and just got to chapter 4, but I've had the same basic team since ch. 1. I use ramza and four generics, partly because grinding the special characters to an equal footing with the rest of the team is time consuming, and partly to make the game more challenging, as some of those skills are just too damn powerful for the story missions of the game.

Right now I'm running Ramza as squire/optional, lancer/basic skill, priest/summon, ninja/steal, and geomancer/item.

Actually, what I dislike most about the game is how grindy it is. By the time you have all the skills in the job classes you want, you're horribly overleveled to have any real challenge in the game. I use a jp glitch/trick to reduce the grind time, but it only works for certain job classes.

To answer your question in general, though. I tend to stick with a job class only long enough to learn the abilities I need from it. In particular, movement and support skills. If I'm actually trying to use the class, then I spend a lot more time in it.

It also depends on what kind of composition your team is going to be.
Because the later job classes require you to level up earlier job classes, I tend to have specific goals for each character in mind.

Ramza as squire and the ninja are my heavy hitters, able to go toe to toe with just about anything. The priest is my support, both offensive and defensive (I usually use equip gun on her). The lancer is powerful and manueverable, but a little slow so she tends to be the mid fielder, using jump to hit anybody that needs it. The geomancer is cleanup. He has pretty powerful attacks and some ranged offense, giving him item allows him to play backup support should I lose the priest.

-edit-

One more question: I know that men are generally better fighters, and women are generally better magic users, but is it really a big difference?
There is a difference, but I don't think it's a significant enough one to warrant starting over.

This is making me reconsider starting over and building an all female generic team. I already messed up because I ran into a "random encounter" and it allowed for 5 characters. I had dismissed the characters I never thought I'd use, and only had 4 to fight with. While I passed this encounter, I am worried that there might be more in the future that are more difficult and I don't want to screw myself by playing short-handed.
Honestly, many of these female only items, while powerful, don't replace ordinary equipment. While they may prevent status effects, many of them give only minimal hp and no mp. The only one that's really worth it is the chantage and you won't find it until 2/3rds or more of the way through the game.

Also, keep in mind that some people in your party are 'guest' characters, meaning they'll join you in battle for story missions, but only permanent party members can engage in random encounters. Always keep five permanent party members, even if you have to use generics. Also be wary that some guest characters will remain with your party for quite a while before becoming permanent.

-edit- again

Random encounters are scaled to your highest level party member, usually Ramza. Story encounters are fixed. Keep this in mind when building your team.

Seerow

2011-10-12, 11:11 AM

The grind really isn't too terrible. Just learn accumulate and spam it for a half hour, and you max out the job for yourself plus get a bunch of JP for everyone else in the group as well. It's way less time consuming than most jrpg grinds.

I do agree with having a specific goal in mind and going from there. Ninja with Martial Arts is typically going to be the strongest hitter you can get (Ninja has good PA, best speed, can wear all the decent gear, unlike monks, and unarmed damage scales quadratically as long as you have good brave, meaning it's pretty easy to get a ninja hitting twice per turn for 800-999 damage).

Lancer/Jump is good, but requires watching the CT make sure you can hit the enemy. It's so worth it though, Lancer SCC is probably one of the easiest SCCs out there.

Geomancy is one of my favorite skill sets, but has a funky damage formula. I think it's like PA/2*MA, so you want to have both PA and MA balanced, and I believe Magic Attack Up boosts it. The long range, small aoe, and random status effects plus no faith reliance makes it one of the cooler skillsets that typically gets overlooked because it doesn't do massive damage like some other classes/skill sets. (Worth noting: Ramza is best as a Geomancer, since he has Male PA and Female MA, giving him the best of both worlds. I think his USquire class is a bit better statwise than Geomancer as well)

Time Mages are also pretty awesome. Haste is a huge ****ing deal in this game, and slow is really painful. Quick is another great CT manipulation ability that is amazing if you can take good advantage of it, and Meteor is devastating.

Wizards are pretty much good for a base class, because it has the highest MA. Its skill set isn't -bad- for direct damage, but Summoning does everything Black Magic does, but better, stronger, and with a bigger AoE.

Oh and if you like pure cheese, get a Calculator, train all of its skills, then swap to a Wizard with Math Skill and get a speed of 10. Put on Chameleon Robes, and spam CT5 Holy. Will always hit every enemy on the map and will always heal every ally on the map (Chameleon Robe). Fire3/Ice3/Bolt3 etc are also options, but aren't as strong and aren't so easy to absorb.

Klorox

2011-10-12, 12:17 PM

For me, it depends on the team setup that I'm going for. I'm playing through the game right now, and just got to chapter 4, but I've had the same basic team since ch. 1. I use ramza and four generics, partly because grinding the special characters to an equal footing with the rest of the team is time consuming, and partly to make the game more challenging, as some of those skills are just too damn powerful for the story missions of the game.
I guess I just don't even know what setup I'm "going for" because (other than the names of some of these classes,) I don't even know what classes there are or what they really do.

Right now I'm running Ramza as squire/optional, lancer/basic skill, priest/summon, ninja/steal, and geomancer/item. Did I screw myself with only having 3 generics?

Actually, what I dislike most about the game is how grindy it is. By the time you have all the skills in the job classes you want, you're horribly overleveled to have any real challenge in the game. I use a jp glitch/trick to reduce the grind time, but it only works for certain job classes.

To answer your question in general, though. I tend to stick with a job class only long enough to learn the abilities I need from it. In particular, movement and support skills. If I'm actually trying to use the class, then I spend a lot more time in it.

It also depends on what kind of composition your team is going to be.
Because the later job classes require you to level up earlier job classes, I tend to have specific goals for each character in mind.

Ramza as squire and the ninja are my heavy hitters, able to go toe to toe with just about anything. The priest is my support, both offensive and defensive (I usually use equip gun on her). The lancer is powerful and manueverable, but a little slow so she tends to be the mid fielder, using jump to hit anybody that needs it. The geomancer is cleanup. He has pretty powerful attacks and some ranged offense, giving him item allows him to play backup support should I lose the priest.Why keep Ramza as a Squire? Again, I don't know much about this game, but I just assumed a Knight is everything a Squire is, but stronger. And then I read about how Dark Knight is a really great class, ect.. But I really don't know which is "best" or which classes really fit my style.

There is a difference, but I don't think it's a significant enough one to warrant starting over.

Honestly, many of these female only items, while powerful, don't replace ordinary equipment. While they may prevent status effects, many of them give only minimal hp and no mp. The only one that's really worth it is the chantage and you won't find it until 2/3rds or more of the way through the game. After I typed my above post, I got to thinking about what I posted. And while there may be more powerful female only items in this game, I doubt there are that many more female only items to justify me not having any male generics. There was a post earlier in this thread (by Zen Monkey, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10720463&postcount=31)), talking about how he likes to have one magic user and one warrior of each sex, just to see the different sprites in the game. If I do restart, I'll definitely consider this idea. I know once I switch from having my two Chemists becoming magic users I'll be able to tell the difference, but them having the exact same appearance just bothers me a little right now.

Also, keep in mind that some people in your party are 'guest' characters, meaning they'll join you in battle for story missions, but only permanent party members can engage in random encounters. Always keep five permanent party members, even if you have to use generics. Also be wary that some guest characters will remain with your party for quite a while before becoming permanent.
When will my party gain it's first permanent, non-generic character (aside from Ramza, of course)? I'd hate to go half the game with being short-handed in all my random encounters.

Random encounters are scaled to your highest level party member, usually Ramza. Story encounters are fixed. Keep this in mind when building your team.
What does this mean, exactly? Can you please elaborate?

The grind really isn't too terrible. Just learn accumulate and spam it for a half hour, and you max out the job for yourself plus get a bunch of JP for everyone else in the group as well. It's way less time consuming than most jrpg grinds.
What is this "grind" you speak of? Is it basically the same thing as fighting a bunch of random encounters to build up your level in other RPGs? If it is, I don't find that task that bad, it can be kind of fun!

I do agree with having a specific goal in mind and going from there. Ninja with Martial Arts is typically going to be the strongest hitter you can get (Ninja has good PA, best speed, can wear all the decent gear, unlike monks, and unarmed damage scales quadratically as long as you have good brave, meaning it's pretty easy to get a ninja hitting twice per turn for 800-999 damage).Hmmm, thanks for this. I'll keep that build idea in mind.

Lancer/Jump is good, but requires watching the CT make sure you can hit the enemy. It's so worth it though, Lancer SCC is probably one of the easiest SCCs out there. What is an SCC? Is a Lancer the same thing as an old-FF Dragoon?

Geomancy is one of my favorite skill sets, but has a funky damage formula. I think it's like PA/2*MA, so you want to have both PA and MA balanced, and I believe Magic Attack Up boosts it. The long range, small aoe, and random status effects plus no faith reliance makes it one of the cooler skillsets that typically gets overlooked because it doesn't do massive damage like some other classes/skill sets. (Worth noting: Ramza is best as a Geomancer, since he has Male PA and Female MA, giving him the best of both worlds. I think his USquire class is a bit better statwise than Geomancer as well)
I have no idea what you're saying here, but it sounds cool. :cool: What's a USquire?

Time Mages are also pretty awesome. Haste is a huge ****ing deal in this game, and slow is really painful. Quick is another great CT manipulation ability that is amazing if you can take good advantage of it, and Meteor is devastating.

Wizards are pretty much good for a base class, because it has the highest MA. Its skill set isn't -bad- for direct damage, but Summoning does everything Black Magic does, but better, stronger, and with a bigger AoE.
Wizard = Black Mage?

Oh and if you like pure cheese, get a Calculator, train all of its skills, then swap to a Wizard with Math Skill and get a speed of 10. Put on Chameleon Robes, and spam CT5 Holy. Will always hit every enemy on the map and will always heal every ally on the map (Chameleon Robe). Fire3/Ice3/Bolt3 etc are also options, but aren't as strong and aren't so easy to absorb.
Again, I have no idea what you're saying man, but it sounds cool. :cool:

Klorox

2011-10-12, 01:47 PM

What does it mean to "master" a job?

Are there any jobs that I should really shoot for? Any jobs I should try to avoid?

I'm thinking of my (eventual) end party being along the lines of 3 fighters and 2 magic users, but I don't know which roles will be filled by me and my generics, and which will be by other characters I'll be able to control. I also don't know if this is even viable (are most battles 5 characters or more? Or less?).

I was thinking of guaging one female with high faith to being a Arithmetician (the class Seerow outlined above), and making Ramza a Dark Knight (are these really that good?).

BTW, it looks like you'd only need one spellcaster if you could get the build Seerow outlines up there. I mean, if you can dish out mass damage, and heal, what else do you need, right?

Ach! I just know I'm overthinking things now.

deuxhero

2011-10-12, 03:03 PM

Master=learn every ability of everyt type.

Outside of the PSP port, it's pointless (though outside of the PSP port, you can glitch your way to easy mastery).

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-12, 03:28 PM

I only have the PSX version. There are some small differences but most everything remains the same.

You don't need to have a final setup in mind, but it's helpful so you don't spend a lot of time in classes you don't know how to use effectively. Discovering what each class is capable of is a large part of the game.

Again, what party setup you want to go with is entirely subjective, but I'd recommend at least two characters who can revive. This has probably been said already, but if you have to put Item and Throw Item as everybody's secondary and support abilities, don't worry about it- the game has a pretty steep learning curve and they can definitely help you get over it. It's better than having everybody dying left and right.

Besides Throw Item (if you're using Item as a secondary ability), the abilities you want to learn first are Potion and Phoenix Down. After that would be Antidote and High Potion, and all the stuff beyond that is pretty much "whatever order you want," as they won't start become really relevant until the latter half of chapter 2 at least.

ALSO, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is sympathy JP. Obviously, when you take an action you get JP, but everybody else on the field, both ally and enemy, gets 1/4th the amount of JP you got for the same job (this works the same way for enemy humans. An enemy knight hitting you and getting 20 JP will cause everybody on the field, including all the members of your team, to gain 5 JP for the knight job.) Normally this is too small to be noteworthy, but if you're trying to get a specific high-cost ability for someone, or if you want to learn a lot of abilities, this can be helpful as each additional member of that job on the field essentially increases JP gain for that job by 25%. Five knights will gain knight JP twice as fast as a team with one knight and the other four members being different classes.

Toastkart

2011-10-12, 03:35 PM

Ok, long post incoming.

I guess I just don't even know what setup I'm "going for" because (other than the names of some of these classes,) I don't even know what classes there are or what they really do.

Squire and chemist are the basic job classes that will take you down the martial and magic path respectively. Ramza has a special version of the squire class, he gets extra skills and a different stat growth than generic squires. Although you can, and at times should, have Ramza learn different classes, he'll almost always be strongest as a squire. If you want to learn about the classes, I suggest finding a class guide on gamefaqs that won't spoil story for you.

Did I screw myself with only having 3 generics?
I wouldn't say you screwed yourself over, but it is a good idea to have a full team. You won't get any of the special characters added to your party until the end of chapter 2, which is quite a while from where you are. Grab yourself another generic.

What does this mean, exactly? Can you please elaborate?
What I mean is that in the story battles, the enemies have a fixed level. In random encounters, the enemies' level is close to your highest level character. Meaning they get stronger as you do.

Also, an SCC is a Single Character Challenge, it's what some people do to make the game more difficult. I've never done one myself, but I hear people have fun doing them.

What does it mean to "master" a job?
Mastering a job means you've learned all of its skills.

Are there any jobs that I should really shoot for? Any jobs I should try to avoid?
All jobs are pretty viable, if you keep their limitations in mind. Archers, for instance, are good ranged damage dealers in the first chapter. By about halfway through the second chapter, their damage output is pretty low in comparison to other classes and it isn't really worth using them. The jobs we've been mentioning--lancer, ninja, summoner, wizard, priest, geomancer, calculator, etc.--are all solid classes. For my experience, status based classes like oracle, time mage, and mediator aren't very useful generally because their success rate is underwhelming, and usually killing a foe is quicker and more useful than disabling him.

I'm thinking of my (eventual) end party being along the lines of 3 fighters and 2 magic users, but I don't know which roles will be filled by me and my generics, and which will be by other characters I'll be able to control. I also don't know if this is even viable (are most battles 5 characters or more? Or less?).
That's a pretty good idea to shoot for, especially for your first playthrough. Yes, almost all battles allow a party of five. Some only allow 4, especially those in the first chapter.

As for the special characters, the only one I ever liked using was Agrias, and I tend not to use her anymore. I also keep Mustadio since you have to have him in your party to access the sidequests in ch.4. The others aren't strictly necessary to have, and I usually take their equipment and give them the boot once any related quests are finished.

T.G. Oskar

2011-10-12, 03:40 PM

Why keep Ramza as a Squire? Again, I don't know much about this game, but I just assumed a Knight is everything a Squire is, but stronger. And then I read about how Dark Knight is a really great class, ect.. But I really don't know which is "best" or which classes really fit my style.

Ramza's version of the Squire is far better than what a Knight could ever be, since it allows him to equip all armor a Knight could, but with better stats all around.

Dark Knight is not really a bad class, but you'll still want Ramza to be Squire for three things: first, the equipment benefits, second for the chapter 4 acquired abilities (namely Scream and Ultima if you manage to learn it; it's a complex procedure involving getting hit with Ultima between the end of Chapter 3 and halfway through Chapter 4), and third because of the overall stats and stat growth. You can level up in Dark Knight and get all special skills and pump up your damage potential via Scream, making you a powerhouse.

When will my party gain it's first permanent, non-generic character (aside from Ramza, of course)? I'd hate to go half the game with being short-handed in all my random encounters.

Halfway through Chapter 2? One of the guests also joins later on (and you better let that guest join!).

What does this mean, exactly? Can you please elaborate?

What means is that the level of the enemies in random encounters will be based on your highest-level character (i.e., if Ramza is level 40 and all others are level 24, you'll be facing enemies between level 37 and level 43, so as long as Ramza is in that party). Story encounters have a "fixed" level range, which progresses as the story does; thus, even if Ramza is level 40, the enemies will remain on the same level.

What is an SCC? Is a Lancer the same thing as an old-FF Dragoon?

What's a USquire?

Wizard = Black Mage?

Again, I have no idea what you're saying man, but it sounds cool. :cool:

What does it mean to "master" a job?

Are there any jobs that I should really shoot for? Any jobs I should try to avoid?

SCC = Single Class Challenge. Basically, that you'll only use a single class to finish the game; while you can temporarily access other classes, in the end you'll only use a single class for all your characters. For example, you can make all your characters Archers, and at the end everyone has to be an Archer. SSCC refers to "solo single class challenges", which essentially means the same except you blaze through the game with a single character. USquire = Ramza's version of the Squire class. By Chapter 2, you'll notice Ramza can equip better weapons (instead of axes), and use unique abilities (such as Chant and Tailwind). This is to separate Ramza's version of Squire from the typical Squire. Yes, Wizard = Black Mage. It just happens that there are a few changes to class names between the PlayStation version and the PSP version: Priest to White Mage, Wizard to Black Mage, Mystic to Oracle, Mediator to Orator, Calculator to Arithmetician, and so on. That also includes Lancer -> Dragoon, so yes, the Lancer is essentially the old FF Dragoon. What Seerow means is as follows: Calculators, or Arithmeticians, have the ability to cast spells based on certain parameters, but they make them global spells (or spells that basically cover the entire map). The Chameleon Robe allows you to absorb Holy spells, so if you cast the Holy spell, you'll be healed. Do it for everyone, and you can deal some serious damage without getting hurt, and actually getting healed by it. Your party is essentially unbeatable, hence cheese (aka, too abusive). Already explained, but mastering a job is basically learning all the required skills. It doesn't matter on the original PSX version, but in the PSP, it is necessary to access the Dark Knight job class and to draw the power of the Onion Knight job class. Jobs to shoot for include Ninja, Samurai, Arithmetician, probably Dark Knight for one or two characters, and Monk. Archers lose their glee at latter levels (when Chemists, Orators and others gain access to guns), and most spellcasters become pointless when Arithmetician enters play because you can cast spells through that class. Summoners are the only exception, so they're still worthwhile. The rest is left to taste.

I'm thinking of my (eventual) end party being along the lines of 3 fighters and 2 magic users, but I don't know which roles will be filled by me and my generics, and which will be by other characters I'll be able to control. I also don't know if this is even viable (are most battles 5 characters or more? Or less?).

Most battles will end up with 5 characters, so no need to build that many. That said, it can be satisfying to mix and match classes, especially on the PSP version which allows a larger amount of characters, and hence more generics.

In most cases, generics will work as "knights with magic powers". Nearly half of all special NPCs will play as Agrias, with the other being a bit diverse. Few will play the role of spellcasters (only two, and they're universally reviled because of their odd attacks), so you might want a few generics following that. Of the rest, you'll have a gunner with aiming skills, a woman with dragon-taming and dragon-buffing skills, Cloud, two monsters, a clone of Ramza (Luso) and a combination between the gunner guy and a thief (Balthier).

In any case, it's a question of which skills you favor the most. Most people usually go for Arithmeticks, Martial Arts, Iaido and the generics to pave the way through the game. However, if you like using, say, the Bardsongs or the Dances or the Dragoon's Jump, go for it; nothing stops you. By the time you reach the final battles, your party will be overpowered (especially if you claim God's power ;)), so it's less skill and more "getting nice loot and crushing the opposition". You might want a Thief (and a skilled one at that, preferably female) to get the best loot, but otherwise it's mostly following your preferences in combat.

Seerow

2011-10-12, 03:43 PM

Did I screw myself with only having 3 generics?

No, 3 is plenty.

Why keep Ramza as a Squire? Again, I don't know much about this game, but I just assumed a Knight is everything a Squire is, but stronger. And then I read about how Dark Knight is a really great class, ect.. But I really don't know which is "best" or which classes really fit my style.

Ramza's Squire is special, he has a slightly different squire class from everyone else. It has higher stats, and gets some better abilities at high level (most noteably the awesome Scream Ability, which gives you +1 Speed, PA, and MA for the rest of the battle with every use)

After I typed my above post, I got to thinking about what I posted. And while there may be more powerful female only items in this game, I doubt there are that many more female only items to justify me not having any male generics. There was a post earlier in this thread (by Zen Monkey, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10720463&postcount=31)), talking about how he likes to have one magic user and one warrior of each sex, just to see the different sprites in the game. If I do restart, I'll definitely consider this idea. I know once I switch from having my two Chemists becoming magic users I'll be able to tell the difference, but them having the exact same appearance just bothers me a little right now.

Well really your characters should have different classes so will appear different. At the start it's unavoidable that they look similar. Like I mentioned before 2-3 generics is plenty to get you through the game.

When will my party gain it's first permanent, non-generic character (aside from Ramza, of course)? I'd hate to go half the game with being short-handed in all my random encounters.

You'll start getting permanent special characters in the middle of chapter 2. I won't say more for spoilers. But most of your chapter 1 battles only have slots for 4 characters anyway.

What does this mean, exactly? Can you please elaborate?
What is this "grind" you speak of? Is it basically the same thing as fighting a bunch of random encounters to build up your level in other RPGs? If it is, I don't find that task that bad, it can be kind of fun!

Yeah, grinding is fighting random battles to get abilities and exp to move on.

Hmmm, thanks for this. I'll keep that build idea in mind.
What is an SCC? Is a Lancer the same thing as an old-FF Dragoon?

Sorry, SCC is a challenge for FFT, where you go through the game with everyone using that class. It's not particularly relevant to your first play through. Sorry for the confusion there.

I have no idea what you're saying here, but it sounds cool. :cool: What's a USquire?

Usquire/Ubersquire is what Ramza's special squire class I mentioned above is referred to as. Basically I'm saying don't overlook Geomancers because their damage doesn't look too good, because their skillset is pretty nice.

Wizard = Black Mage?

Yes.

Ninja'd by oscar.

Tono

2011-10-12, 04:59 PM

It all comes down to personal preference, but I don't think outside of 1.3 that I've ever had everyone use Items. One maybe two early game. And as far as classes go, I wouldn't spend much time leveling as an archer/chemist/bard/dancer, just because of the stat growths. But like I said, its all personal preference. I would recommended a trip down to Gamefaqs to learn about stat growth and multipliers though, then just build according to preference. Keep in mind though, a Two characters of the same gender will have varying stats based on how you leveled them, and given equal jobs growths, assuming no major level/deleveling, and same faith score, the extra couple MA a female gets will push her over damage wise. Same goes to male aswell.(Concerning PA)
Do remember though, optimized is not always funiest. I tend to generally always have a geomancer/whitemage(THis is my favorite. Two swords for +4 MA and some of the female only acc, just to laugh at everyone else.) and an Oracle to beat people with sticks. I just consider it fun.

tyckspoon

2011-10-12, 06:23 PM

It all comes down to personal preference, but I don't think outside of 1.3 that I've ever had everyone use Items. One maybe two early game.

It's a very useful way to keep everybody alive during the early going, before your team becomes the well-oiled death machine they will later be.. which coincidentally is also the section of the game where you probably don't have secondary skillsets worth using, so you may as well spend the.. what, 30? JP to learn Potion and set Item as the second skill on everybody. (Also if you some spare cash before you learn Accumulate you can train JP by getting your guys to trade off hitting each other and Potioning themselves.)

Tono

2011-10-12, 06:45 PM

It's a very useful way to keep everybody alive during the early going, before your team becomes the well-oiled death machine they will later be.. which coincidentally is also the section of the game where you probably don't have secondary skillsets worth using, so you may as well spend the.. what, 30? JP to learn Potion and set Item as the second skill on everybody. (Also if you some spare cash before you learn Accumulate you can train JP by getting your guys to trade off hitting each other and Potioning themselves.)

Meh. Like I said, I've just never needed it. I find its easier to win without it(Throw stone kiting is actually fun in lower levels). Maybe a pheonix down in the second story battle, but if you're grinding anyway a monk+chakra does it so much better, and is easily obtained either threw a white mage+crystal or just beating on monsters until I get it. Hell, unless I want the levels for something I tend to move outta squire after Gained JP up (unless for some reason I am -really- close to accumulate) Picking it up later when Ramza gets outta chapter one Squire. I tend to go overboard with it when I get it.

I just want to clarify though, I am not saying its bad strategy, its just not one I prefer, or would recommend, but having played for a long time I forget exactly what I used to do at lower levels, and tend not to use it even when I do a 'okay, I won't break the game this time' playtrough. FFT just gets boring when I sandbag my way through it. Plus items tend to get expensive when you have 7-10 characters you like to keep around the same item/character level, not including specials, and I just don't like wasting the money. I will say though that if I sounded like I was saying its bad advice, I apologize, it isn't to a new person, and I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I just don't like building off a reliance to that, because there are better things end game, and the way I play games if I start with one strategy, I tend to build on that rather then changing mid-game, unless I really have too. 5 people with items secondary just feels like that.

Klorox

2011-10-13, 10:08 AM

nhbdy

2011-10-13, 10:44 AM

T.G. Oskar

2011-10-13, 10:50 AM

Wow guys, I guess I'm just having a hard time grasping the idea that Ramza as a Squire is his best build (yes, I understand dipping into other classes for addtional abilities). How much more can you really do with Squire as your main class and other support abilities (it must be a lot, and I'm just not getting it being a newb to this game)??

Well, for starters, you can end up equipping heavy armor and Knight's Swords, so you can essentially go for a Dual Wield build using Knight's Swords. Scream, which you gain at Chapter 4, gives a huge boost to many stats (Physical Attack, Magic Attack, Speed and Brave) which means you can self-buff into oblivion. Steel, which is gained at Chapter 2 IIRC, allows you to boost the Brave(ry) of your allies both temporarily and permanently (just so you know: every four points of temporary Bravery or Faith on a character translate into a permanent point, and viceversa). With Tailwind, you can basically buff your allies into going faster, hit harder and have better Brave(ry) by end levels.

The rest is defining what you want to add. The secondary Action Ability will define how Ramza will behave in combat, which is why stuff like Martial Arts or Iaido work so well for him (the former because of the PA boost, the essentially innate high Bravery and the overall effectiveness, the latter because of the MA boost). For Reaction Abilities, few things can beat Shirahadori/Blade Grasp, Damage Split/Soulbind (or whatever it's called on the PSP version) or Hamedo(ru), which can be gained by entering into Monk, Arithmetician or Samurai (in reverse order); you can take advantage of Adrenaline Boost for an Archer to be blazingly fast alongside Tailwind AND Scream, if you want to. The definite Support Ability will be Two Swords/Dual Wield, because of what I mentioned of dual-wielding weapons (either swords or Knight's Swords once you have 97 Bravery); little else can compare. Movement Abilities include Move +3, Teleport and Move-HP UP/Lifefont.

I'm really interested in a Dark Knight, partly because the requirements are just so rediculous! If that's not going to be Ramzas class, should I designate my generic male for that role? Since it requires mastering Black Mage, I thought it'd be a little tough for a guy with a Faith of only 59. If not Ramza, then who should go for it?

Actually, Darkness (the Action Ability for the Dark Knight) is great on Ramza, especially with Chant; you can heal an ally for a lot, then recover the lost HP and deal damage with Sanguine Sword afterwards. You won't deal as much damage as some of the latter characters with their sword skills, but Scream helps quite a lot on that one. You could make a secondary Dark Knight if you want (in my game, I plan to have Alicia, IIRC, turn into one since she already has mastered Knight and Black Mage), but you could do quite well with a Monk-primary or Ninja-primary generic, so...

BTW, I had some free time yesterday, and decided to restart. I only just picked up Argath as a Guest, so I'm really early in the game.

My party looks like this so far:

- Ramza (Squire)

- Argath (Guest Squire)

- Delita (Guest Squire... considering making him a Knight so I can use some armor that can be bought at this castle)

- Wilfred (Male Generic... started as a Chemist and I switched him into Squire. Br 74/ Fa 59)

- Somerhild (Female Generic... started as a Squire and I switched her into a Chemist. Br 65/ Fa 74)

- Justyna (Female Generic... I hired her as a Squire and switched her into a Chemist before ever fighting anything. Br 70/ Fa 69)

I also have two other generics I don't really plan on using, but I'll wait to dismiss them:

- Orwen (Male Squire Br 61/ Fa 62)

- Gethrude (Female Chemist Br 52/ Fa 54. I'll use this one for an extra hand in random encounters... I plan on having her stay out of the way and tossing potions on her turn if needed.)

I plan on Somerhild and Justyna becoming my main spellcasters. I figured Somerhild, with her higher Faith, is better suited for direct damage spells, and Justyna is better for healing and summoning. Am I right here?

Well...if you notice a little thing I mentioned above (the idea that Faith can be raised), whomever ends up as a spellcaster really matters little. You do want to raise your eventual spellcasters as Black Mages so that they can take advantage of their higher MA growth, which is what truly matters in the end. Plan any stay into another class to be as brief as possible, specifically Arithmetician, so that you can maximize your MA growth; changing classes and sending your people into tavern quests (accessible from Chapter 2) helps a lot with that.

Looking at the class charts, it looks like, for spellcasting, Arithmeticians are the cream of the crop. Am I best off trying to build my two spellcasters towards this class, with one concentrating on White Magic and the other Black Magic? I ask because those seem like the traditional choices for Mages (I started with Final Fantasy on the NES).

Arithmeticians are the cream because they can essentially cast all spells in their own way. There are a few spells that aren't cast by Arithmeticians (the -ja level magick of White and Black Mages, the HP/MP draining spells of the Oracle, the Time Mage's Meteor spell and Hasteja/Slowja, amongst others), but they cover anything else. If you're planning for Arithmeticians, the idea is to master all four basic magician classes (White Mage, Black Mage, Oracle, Time Mage) and then choose another primary base class; Summoner with Arithmeticks as its secondary skill is extremely potent. Going White Mage, Black Mage, Oracle or Time Mage with Arithmeticks as a secondary skill will end on some redundancy, but Black Mage/Arithmetician helps with the MA, which can make the class a bit stronger offensively.

On a side note... I'd really like to thank y'all for putting up with my salvo of questions. I know it can border on annoying. :p

When you've played both the PSX and the PSP version and finished the PSX version about three times in different playthroughs...that's no problem. Of course, it's not like those whom have made Solo Single Class Challenges which are really the hardcore guys, but that's mostly dropping wisdom by the bucketload.

tyckspoon

2011-10-13, 11:00 AM

Mages: If you're making them into Arithmeticians eventually you'll want them to dip into every kind of magic, because it can all be cast with Calc even if it's not the current skillset. So grab Haste/Slow from the time mage even if you aren't mastering the job, Cure and Raise from white magic. I don't think it's necessary to learn *all* the spells; most of them aren't that useful and they just clutter up the menu when all you want to do is Haste your party/Cure everybody/Raise the ninja who died all the way across the map and has his crystal timer ticking down at double speed/Holy-nuke EVERYTHING.

Brave/Faith scores: I don't think anybody mentioned it directly yet- the Mediator (name probably changed in War of the Lions- Word skill class) gets abilities to raise/lower Brave and Faith, so with some patience you can manually adjust those to whatever you want. Mostly used for lowering Brave for an item-finder and raising Faith because Ramza is much more reliable for raising Brave. Also, a cautionary note on raising Faith: If you make a character too Faithful, they'll leave your group to go be a religious hermit or join the church or something. 70-80 is high enough.

Seerow

2011-10-13, 11:05 AM

AAARRRGGG!!! your discussion has now made the cravings for this amazing game come back... It has also been enlightening, I never knew about the stat growths based on class (ramza should stay squire?!?!?!? who knew?) and I wanted to thank you for bringing this classic back to me, and curse you for destroying my free time...

Well there's two things playing into stats for characters: Growth and Multipliers. I don't remember all of the details on what is best for what, if you want details you can check out the Battle Mechanics Guide on GameFAQs. It's really comprehensive and has everything you could ever want to know about it and anything else in the game.

Ramza as a Squire has really decent well rounded stats. Good MA, good PA, slightly above average speed, good HP, and the ability to equip just about anything. Add on top of that Yell and Scream and you have a couple of really powerful buffing abilities (raising speed is a pretty rare thing, and higher speed is really good.)

On a side note, I always seemed to find spellcasters underpowered compared to the high tiered melee classes, am I just missing something or what is it that makes them powerful (besides calculator, I know that bit of nonsense). Furthermore you guys seem to show a lot of favor for a class I was underwhelmed by... geomancer, is it only for the (apparently large) stat growths? or is there yet another aspect I am missing out on?

It depends on what you mean by spellcasters.

Wizards can be powerful, but they're mostly used for their higher MA multiplier, as a rider for something like Summoning or Draw Out. Their magic is decent, but nothing special, and any melee character probably destroys it in terms of raw damage.

Geomancers have above average stat growths, but I personally like them for their skill set. Geomancy is nice in that it's totally unavoidable and ranged. Drawout is unavoidable, but close only. Most spells can be dodged, and are reduced by faith. Geomancy is really consistent, ranged, aoe damage, and if you take advantage of terrain types you can get some nasty status effects in there for free too. It may not be worth it in a normal playthrough because there are options that are so much more overpowering that that sort of consistency isn't needed, but I like it all the same.

Samurai as mentioned have their attacks based off MA, so could technically be considered casters, but do not need faith for their attacks. This is a useful secondary to put on Ramza if you want him at low faith since he has Female level MA to pack more punch in his magic attacks.

Summoner is pretty awesome. The attacks have huge AoE, great damage. There's also a few utility summons like Golem, or that healing summon, that makes it a more versatile skillset than Black Magic.

White Magic is great in that it saves you money on potions and stuff, plus Holy is a beast of an attack. Also Raise/Raise2 revive the target with more health than a Phoenix Down... but it does have a success rate based on faith, so your low faith melee may have trouble getting rezzed, while a phoenix down always works. It's a tradeoff, but white magic is typically worth using unless you're sitting your whole team at 3 faith.

Time Magic is as mentioned in a previous post pretty amazing. Haste and Slow are both great status effects you want to be using as often as possible. Comet is iirc the strongest offensive spell in the game. Time Mages focus on the principle of anything that lets me take more actions than my enemy is good, and it delivers. I'd recommend using a time mage until you get to a point where you have enough Excaliburs/perfumes to give everyone auto haste, and even then it's good.

Mediators aren't really magic, and only get used a couple times per game to adjust brave/faith levels to where you want them.

Bards/Dancers are pretty bad for a normal playthrough, but using them won't hurt the team too much. What's really awesome is a whole team of bards and dancers, and watch the whole enemy team die or your whole team buffed to high heavens while there's nothing they can do about it.

I THINK that covers all of the magic classes. I feel like I'm forgetting one or two though...

Tono

2011-10-13, 11:10 AM

Well...if you notice a little thing I mentioned above (the idea that Faith can be raised), whomever ends up as a spellcaster really matters little. You do want to raise your eventual spellcasters as Black Mages so that they can take advantage of their higher MA growth, which is what truly matters in the end. Plan any stay into another class to be as brief as possible, specifically Arithmetician, so that you can maximize your MA growth; changing classes and sending your people into tavern quests (accessible from Chapter 2) helps a lot with that.
Emphasis mine.
Uhh, there are a couple things which I would have to double check again to make sure, as they looked wrong, but I have classes in 10 and its been a while since I've looked through the BMG so ill just correct this, but all generic classes with the exception of Mimic and Onion Knight(8) have the exact same MA growth (MAC) of 50. It doesn't matter whether he levels as a BM or a knight, the difference you see is the inharient random(IIRC, this part may be wrong) starting value for the characters themselves, which you have no control over. The difference between the magic classes comes in the growth of other stats. (Summoner best SP, but less HP then BM, for example) It is true though, that BM have the highest MA multiplier, but outside of special jobs and mime/OK, MA growth is no better leveling then any other class. Thats why people put the samurai skill set on BMs, the amazing 150 multiplier.

you don't stay much in Calculator because of the horrible HPC, SPC, and SpdC, IIRC.

Seerow

2011-10-13, 11:13 AM

you don't stay much in Calculator because of the horrible HPC, SPC, and SpdC, IIRC.

Well you spend plenty of time there if your goal is to get max stats. Gotta have something to level down in.

Tono

2011-10-13, 01:12 PM

I always used Bard/Dancer for that. The skills are fun but leveling as them sucks. And looking for a link to throw at the questioner, I realized I made a mistake about the calculator growth, I don't know why I though there was a class with a >100 speed growth.
And here you are man, The FFT bible (http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/3876), and if you don't feel like digging through that monstrousity, aquick look at growths and multipliers(PSP) (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/937312-final-fantasy-tactics-the-war-of-the-lions/43048881), I think the only -major- difference between that and the PSX version is clouds stats, + extra characters. Good luck.

Seerow

2011-10-13, 01:25 PM

Can Cloud still crossdress in the PSP version?

Tono

2011-10-13, 01:34 PM

He can equip ribbon, but none of the perfumes or lipstick, I believe.

nhbdy

2011-10-13, 02:16 PM

It's funny how valuable of an asset it is to be able to dress in women's accessories in that game... kinda sends a weird message...

EDIT: on a side note... I did some searching for stat growths, and found this page

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Stat_Growth_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics%29

which if it is to be believed, states that there is no way to effectively raise magic attack (barring special classes like Usquire), as all of the generic classes have poor growth on it, is this true (and the rest of the page in general, as it is a wiki page)?

Tono

2011-10-13, 04:37 PM

EDIT: on a side note... I did some searching for stat growths, and found this page

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Stat_Growth_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics%29

which if it is to be believed, states that there is no way to effectively raise magic attack (barring special classes like Usquire), as all of the generic classes have poor growth on it, is this true (and the rest of the page in general, as it is a wiki page)?

Its misleading. It rates OK MAC as higher then Mime, but they are the same(Looking at the stars chart, as I think that one is talking about stat growth, the Letter seems to be multipliers), but Mime is significantly easier to level up in then OK. (OK requires you to sacrifice a specific unit, and is harder to acquire.) Also, the actual numbers given don't give any of the new classes to compare too.
Easiest way to level MAC is either be Reis, or be a Mime. Everyone can be a mime, you only have one Reis. To be fair though, Reis is pretty much good at everything.
When in doubt, for FFT, check the Battle Mechanics Guide, or other areas on Gamefaqs. The people there tend to do a decent job at things, even after all these years, and I know that some of the people that do all the FFT modding tend to post there sometimes as well, and those people are arguable the most knowledgeable on the subject. Or used to be, tbh I haven't looked at either in a while.

T.G. Oskar

2011-10-13, 05:58 PM

It's funny how valuable of an asset it is to be able to dress in women's accessories in that game... kinda sends a weird message...

Well, for starters, the Barette and Cachusha are excellent at blocking nearly all status effects coming, in between the two. Ribbon takes that out of the water with immunity to essentially all negative status effects.

Then the perfumes, which provide up to two beneficial status effects on a single target: Chantage, Cherche, Salty Rage/Sortilege are particularly decent buffs. Then the PSP came and delivered Tynar Rouge, which is just adding a layer of cake to the already delicious pie (more than just adding cream). THEN they add the Minerva Bustier...let's just say that women have the best equipment in FFT.

It's a shame, tho, that men don't have equivalent equipment to counteract.

Seerow

2011-10-13, 06:01 PM

Well, for starters, the Barette and Cachusha are excellent at blocking nearly all status effects coming, in between the two. Ribbon takes that out of the water with immunity to essentially all negative status effects.

Then the perfumes, which provide up to two beneficial status effects on a single target: Chantage, Cherche, Salty Rage/Sortilege are particularly decent buffs. Then the PSP came and delivered Tynar Rouge, which is just adding a layer of cake to the already delicious pie (more than just adding cream). THEN they add the Minerva Bustier...let's just say that women have the best equipment in FFT.

It's a shame, tho, that men don't have equivalent equipment to counteract.

It's a double standard of society: There's things that are socially acceptable only for women to wear. There is nothing that is not acceptable for women to wear. FFT is surprisingly accurate in that regard :p

Klorox

2011-10-14, 09:32 AM

Well, for starters, you can end up equipping heavy armor and Knight's Swords, so you can essentially go for a Dual Wield build using Knight's Swords. Scream, which you gain at Chapter 4, gives a huge boost to many stats (Physical Attack, Magic Attack, Speed and Brave) which means you can self-buff into oblivion. Steel, which is gained at Chapter 2 IIRC, allows you to boost the Brave(ry) of your allies both temporarily and permanently (just so you know: every four points of temporary Bravery or Faith on a character translate into a permanent point, and viceversa). With Tailwind, you can basically buff your allies into going faster, hit harder and have better Brave(ry) by end levels.

Do you only gain scream if Ramza's job is Squire, or can I have him be a different job and gain scream as a secondary?

Seerow

2011-10-14, 10:09 AM

Do you only gain scream if Ramza's job is Squire, or can I have him be a different job and gain scream as a secondary?

You can use it as a secondary. But really, Ramza's Squire is the only class he can use other than Knight that has access to Knight Swords.... so why would you want to use anything else? With Squire you get access to clothes (which as counter-intuitive as it is beat the **** out of armor because Armor only gives you +HP while clothes can give you awesome boosts like +2 PA and +2 speed), a better skillset (seriously whoever thought that the Knight's skill set of breaking stuff was good needs to be shot. The stat breaks would be good if they didn't have like a 40% success rate. As it is by the time you can break someone's stats down far enough to matter, you could have killed them 3 times over).

Of course if you want all your Knight Swords going on special characters, that's understandable, but really, all you need to do is use catch item and find some high level ninjas to get an unlimited supply of the swords... and Excalibur is amazing.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-14, 10:11 AM

Do you only gain scream if Ramza's job is Squire, or can I have him be a different job and gain scream as a secondary?

Scream is part of his Squire skillset (Guts.) He automatically gains the ability to learn it when you start chapter 4. If you want him as a non-Squire job but still have the ability to use Scream (and Cheer Up and Wish) you just have to set Guts as his secondary ability.

T.G. Oskar

2011-10-14, 11:46 AM

You can use it as a secondary. But really, Ramza's Squire is the only class he can use other than Knight that has access to Knight Swords.... so why would you want to use anything else? With Squire you get access to clothes (which as counter-intuitive as it is beat the **** out of armor because Armor only gives you +HP while clothes can give you awesome boosts like +2 PA and +2 speed),[...]

I find that wearing Robes can be better at times. The end-game clothes are pretty buff, while the Robe of Lords grants Auto-Protect and Auto-Shell, and is one of the components of the semi-MBarrier/semi-Aegis equipment set (alongside Excalibur and Chaos Blade, as well as an Angel Ring; females get to replace the Chaos Blade and Angel Ring for a Chantage IIRC). Plus, Chameleon Robe for Holy absorption. And the extra MP, in case you want to be a spellcasting class or...well, constantly use up the final Squire move (if you care for it somehow). But yeah; you don't need heavy armor that much, since by the end having both Grand Helmet and Maximilian essentially overflows Ramza's maximum HP.

a better skillset (seriously whoever thought that the Knight's skill set of breaking stuff was good needs to be shot. The stat breaks would be good if they didn't have like a 40% success rate. As it is by the time you can break someone's stats down far enough to matter, you could have killed them 3 times over).

A good thing about the Battle Skill/Arts of War is that they count as physical attacks, so they're modified by some Support Skills. Most notably, Two Weapon/Dual Wield allows for a doubled stat reduction (or two chances of breaking the weapon, with a possible normal attack if you succeed at the first), and using a ranged weapon with them allows you to reduce enemy stats from a distance. It's one of the few ways to reduce enemy MP, and lowering their Speed can make a battle from...well, a joke to a hilarious joke (when you get far too many turns at once because you've murdered the enemy's speed). Plus, it's great when you want to get more XP and JP from battle. It also works best on monsters, and it can be a lifesaver at some specific battles (Grog Hill special and Bariaus Hill special might be examples).

I'd say it's far too specific to be a good idea, rather than obviously bad. Remember, this is the game that has Dragoons with various forms of Jump, but purchasing the last ones make the earlier ones utterly irrelevant, and Charge/Aim. Charge/Aim is the single biggest loss of time around, and it's far worse than Battle Skill/Arts of War. Coincidentally, I find how they organized the moves in FFTA/A2 to be a superior point.

Of course if you want all your Knight Swords going on special characters, that's understandable, but really, all you need to do is use catch item and find some high level ninjas to get an unlimited supply of the swords... and Excalibur is amazing.

Klorox

2011-10-14, 12:43 PM

tyckspoon

2011-10-14, 01:16 PM

Ramza tends to turn out pretty awesome no matter what you do with him; you aren't doing anything wrong by making him something other than his base Squire if that's what you want to do (mine usually end up in Ninja with the Squire skills as secondary and the Samurai support skill. Speed > everything.) His special squire class just has no real weaknesses and some really good options you wouldn't normally have, so it makes a good default.

Silverraptor

2011-10-16, 01:24 AM

What does Brave and Faith do exactly? I never understood that. Also, is there any difference between male and female soldiers? Or is the female cheaper to recruit because they have a dagger instead of a broadsword?

tyckspoon

2011-10-16, 02:10 AM

Brave governs how often most support abilities (Counter, Speed Save, Blade Grasp, basically anything that goes off when you get hit) activate as well as figuring into the damage formula for some weapon classes (Knight Swords and unarmed attacks, at least). Generally you want it as high as you can get it; the only downside I know of to high Brave is with Find Item, where your chance of getting a better item is 100-Brave.

Faith controls spellcasting; High Faith both makes the spells you cast more powerful and the spells cast on you more effective. That means a high-Faith soldier can get healed much more rapidly and usually will have buff spells succeed, but he can also get nuked down by enemy magic a lot faster as well. You usually want your casters to have highish Faith and the rest of the party can have it wherever you like. If you burn it down low they'll be nigh-immune to spells, but you'll have to rely on non-magic means of recovery.

Male soldiers start with higher Physical Attack and usually gain that stat faster. Female soldiers start with higher Magical Attack and usually grow magic faster. I don't know why the females are cheaper, really, but the cost difference is entirely negligible after not very far into the game.

Calemyr

2011-10-16, 02:21 AM

Females are 100 cheaper because they have a dagger rather than a sword, and the sword is 100 cheaper. It's not a question of unit worth, only the value of their gear.

Also, if you're playing the PSP, Dark Knights can really profit from minimum faith. They cannot be touched by most magic that way, but they can still heal themselves with one of their sword attacks. Give them max brave, shirahidori, and min faith and about the only thing that can threaten them is another sword-art user. Then make the rest of your party female (Agrias, Meliadohl, Reis, and Rafa if only for comedic value) and give them the chantage (perfume that gives you permanent re-raise) and it's practically impossible to lose.

dgnslyr

2011-10-16, 02:21 AM

Female soldiers are cheaper because they come packaged with a dagger instead of a broadsword. The 100 gil disparity is the difference in cost between the two weapons.

Triaxx

2011-10-16, 06:13 AM

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-16, 10:09 AM

Knight Skills aren't meant for Knights. They're meant for Lancers, or Archers. Break stuff in your face? Or do it from a square away with a pointy stick? Or from a long distance with a pointy square. Contratulations, you've been shot where your pants don't cover any you're now so slow you'll never catch me.

On the other hand, Ninja's can do it twice.

And Wizards are the Magic Attack Growth class.

Unless it's been changed in WotL, no, they're not. Mimes are the MA growth class, Wizards have the best MA multiplier. Two characters, identical in every other way, raised from level 1 to 99 as a wizard and a knight (or any other two jobs barring mime,) respectively, will both have the exact same MA in the same job with the same equipment.

I'm talking about the PSX version here, I'm not familiar with the PSP version.

As for the knight's skillset... yes, it sucks on a knight. Archers, ninjas, hell, even chemists and mediators (guns) make much better use of it. Mustadio as an engineer makes pretty decent use of it too, especially once you get him a spell gun (although I personally prefer giving him Item.)

Tono

2011-10-16, 11:30 AM

No its the same as in the PSX version concerning that, its what the whole half of the last page was about.

And as far as reaction abilities go, Reflexes can be far more effective then Shiradori, especially since if the person is using two swords, Shiradori will only block the first attack, and Reflexes can be used to make magic uneffective. If you don;t want to run a 0 faith character, and you didn't bother to zodiac align all your characters, reflexes can be so much more attractive.

Hyudra

2011-10-16, 12:06 PM

So I finally convinced myself to knuckle down and make headway on some SCCs.

What's Hyudra talking about?

In case you missed earlier discussion, an SCC is a self imposed challenge where you go through virtually the entire game as one class (barring starting battles, mandalia and sweegy, so you have a chance to grind job levels and get access to the classes in the first place.) Just to keep things balanced, there's other rules as well. Like, limits on levels (no grinding to 99 so you can trivialize story battles) or using special characters like Agrias or T.G. Cid (who have better stats/stat growth). But chances are you won't run into these.

So essentially, you're playing with 5 people all as the same class, using only that class' skills, from Dorter Trade City to the final boss.

Samurai

Got my Samurais (Ramza, 2 male, 2 female) to Igros. Dycedarg/Adramelk the Ghost of Fury. Weigraf/Velius gets a lot of flak as one of the most annoying battles in the game, but one of the ones you learn to dread as you do the self imposed challenges is Adramelk. Balk II is the other, more on that later.

The problem: The battle's really badly laid out for most non-casters. Samurais are no exception. You've got to take this drawn out route to reach him, and while you're doing that, he's dropping Stasis Stabs and other sword skills on 2-4 members of your team at a time, doing 150 to 280 damage a shot (Significant considering the gang is only packing 300 hp). You can't really spread out, because it's cramped, and even if you did manage to approach him with one individual at a time, he shifts gears from area of effect to 'I destroy your gear so you can't even heal through what I'm inflicting on you'.

See the route?

http://i54.tinypic.com/2m2cck3.jpg

It's easily possible, common even, to have someone die before you've acted, because Dycedarg's in a position to drop a Knight Sword on 4 members of your team before the battle's started (avoidable by setting them as far away from him as possible, letting Ramza take the hit, but you're delaying reaching Dyce by another turn as a consequence). Someone inevitably drops before you reach the guy, at which point it's a race to kill not one but two durable key enemies before a teammate crystallizes.

Let's not forget, either, that there's 4 knights in the room as well, any of which might have geomancy (tack on casts of carve model for 60-80 damage & 15% chance of petrify) or item (healing Dycedarg/other knights) or just getting in the way. They've got shields and usually capes, so even if my Samurais can take 90% of their health in one shot, they've only got a 50% chance to hit. (On the plus side, samurais have Blade Grasp, reducing chance to be hit by 70%)

That's without even getting into Adramelk's abilities. When you ~do~ down Dycedarg, he turns into a guy who's job seems to be screwing you over and/or using delaying tactics. Scenario: Samurai Millicent died, and you've only two rounds of actions to put the big bad down. What does Adramelk do? Confuse your entire team.

So I'm looking at grinding levels to get the next speed point.

Geomancer

Balk II! Damn you!

Only thing worse than facing a level grind is getting past 3-4 difficult fights and then realizing you'll have to go back to a save before you entered the dungeon, grind, and then do the difficult fights again.

My Geomancer team consists of Ramza, 2 females (Minerva and Isolde) and 2 males (Gryffen and Orrick). Guys naturally pack more PA, for stronger attacks, and have marginally more hitpoints. Girls have better MA, which makes for stronger geomancy (about 20% stronger, by my observations). Depending on the nature of the fight, I swap my gear between raw PA/MA with counterflood equipped, or go with anti-status accessories, ice brands and ice shields with no counterflood (So I can whack my own guys with swords to heal them).

Which worked fairly well up until Adramelk. I could heal through the knight sword damage with ice brands, and take potshots at Dyce with geomancy. Most times, I'd lose someone to a combination of knight attack and sword magic.
All well and good until he transformed, at which point he repeatedly trounced me. I did finally beat him with sheer luck. Carve model petrified knights 90% of the time, and then Adramelk used Loss, confusing my entire team three times in a row. Sounds like a bad thing, except AI doesn't attack confused people, and I was lucky (so lucky) enough to have my confused people attack him more than they geomancied each other.

After that, fairly slow progress through the final series of levels... with an abrupt and painful stop at Balk II. Capable of one-shotting Ramza, hydras/tiamats can one-shot two people at a time with their flame. By which I mean that if my people have 490 hitpoints, the hydras are dealing 500+ damage to two in a single action. Balk has a chemist buddy to heal him, so you can't even wear him down with steady geomancy use.

So it's looking more and more like another instance where I'll have to back down and just grind up to the next speed point (the level where my speed increases by 1, so I effectively get more turns).

*Shakes fist* Baaaaaaaalk!

Note: Bosses I'm talking about go by Barich and Adrammelech in the PSP version.

Squire

For the record, doing 'True Squire', so that means I hacked the game so Ramza doesn't get his traditional Ubersquire stuff. No knight swords, no special skills.

I always liked squires, and the idea of an SCC where using dash/throw stone to knock people off stuff might be useful from time to time is interesting. I think squires are generally underrated. That said, they won't necessarily be easy.

One of the reasons I hadn't started Squire yet is that it's visually boring to have teams of 5 men or 5 women. Which is why I loved Thief (a mix of genders for Steal Heart ability is essential), Geomancer and Samurai (PA/MA dependencies). So while I was hacking Ramza to be a regular Squire, I made one of my males into a crossdresser. Male stats and stat growth, female looks.

Anticipating that this SCC would be hard in the early stages, I set up an infinite loop in the first battle of chapter 1. Kill the squires, corner the chemist, and then have your chemists whack the chemist, but not kill him. Get his life low enough on each turn, and he uses potion, of which he has an infinite supply. Rinse, repeat. Since a fraction of the JP you gain in a class gets 'spilled over' to other party members, Delita gains chemist JP as a result. You can do the same with squires too. Just have to be careful that a critical hit won't off the chemist.

Once you've done enough, Finish the fight, unequip and dismiss everyone except Ramza (they've got too many levels anyways, and screwy brave/faith), then buy a proper party from the soldier office. The benefit of this approach is that you get Delita who has auto potion, potion, hi-potion and phoenix down right off the bat. If you involved squires in the infinite loop, then he'd have move+1 and the ability to enter the Knight class the moment you get to Igros (no use doing it earlier, as there's no gear for him). With Delita as a knight with top notch gear, item, auto-potion, move+1 and gained JP up, he's a friggin' juggernaut. A great escort through chapter one.

The first half of chapter 2 isn't so bad, either. You've got Gafgarion/Agrias/Mustadio for much of it. Then everything goes screwy as you get to Golgorand Execution Site (Golgollada Gallows), where you suddenly don't have any guests, and the fights are actually hard. Haven't beat that yet. Immediately after, I know you've got Ramza going alone against Gaf, which I'm not looking forward to.

Tricky tricky.

Klorox

2011-10-18, 11:52 AM

tyckspoon

2011-10-18, 12:07 PM

Very true, but it's got to be a MAJOR pain in the butt to get a character to Master the Black Mage job with minimum Faith.

Nah. Set Squire skill as secondary. Stand in back. Accumulate forever. Or give him a weak weapon and hit one of your heavy-armor classes in the back. Efficient job training involves very little use of the actual job skills except for Bards/Dancers and a few others that have decent repeatable skills.

Calemyr

2011-10-18, 01:05 PM

I found it actually easier than that. First off, train a second mage to learn the major final elemental spells (the -ja series, I think). Then put him in a fight with an orator (with brave down and both faith skills, if possible), a monk (with Chakra), and a knight (with speed and power breaks). These roles can be put on the same person, but the knight/orator and mage/monk have to be split up. The prospective dark knight has to be a wizard, but can have monk as a secondary (it's a handy combo in any event).

1) Kill everyone but one enemy in some random battle.
2) Use the orator and knight to destroy the enemy's power, speed, and brave.
3) Once he's a useless fowl, have the orator lower future dark knight's faith to single digits.
4) Have the mage cast a -ja spell on the future DK.
5) Have the monk use chakra to recharge the mage.
6) If Ramza learned the spell last time, cast the next one on him.
7) Repeat steps 4-7 until the DK has learned all -ja spells.
8) If the DK is Ramza, use the orator to raise Ramza's faith to 100.
9) Kill the chicken.

This is also an effective way to train, but training causes as much troubles as benefits in this game.

Why this is good is that not only does Ramza learn the spell, meaning you don't have to spend the huge number of job points to do so, he also gets a substantial sum (100-300) of JP on top of it. You can effectively copy several thousand job points of skills over to him from another character.

Having a minimal faith is only really useful once you become a dark knight. Ramza in particular can be a very handy mage until he achieves the requirements for the DK class, as he doesn't go pacifistic at high faith.

Non-Ramza DKs can really profit from Monk as well, as the the skillset includes a lethal mix of HP/MP recovery, status recovery, resurrection, and attacks, all of which derive their power from Physical Attack, which is sickeningly augmented (+50%, I think) as a dark knight. Ramza's probably better off as a squire with DK as secondary, but won't get much profit from Ultima with minimum faith.

nhbdy

2011-10-19, 06:34 AM

So I found (what I believe to be) a fairly mainstream mod that says it balances the game and adds significant challenge. I started playing with it and while I've barely started a save file, I already feel that the game is completely different, the classes act and behave in a completely different manner and the AI is much more challenging, and I was wondering, have any of you good folks here at the playground given it a go? If not I highly recommend it (though not unless you have already given some thought on character optimization and are passingly familiar with the battle mechanics and the like).

the mod is Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3 patch, and is found here:
http://www.insanedifficulty.com/index.php/Final%20Fantasy%20Tactics%201.3/home

Hyudra

2011-10-19, 08:16 AM

tyckspoon

2011-10-19, 10:13 AM

While 1.3 says it 'balances the game', it also gives the enemies a lot more JP, appropriate to their level, and it's almost a different game entirely, with changes to some job (calculator).

I wouldn't say it 'balances the game', personally. I'd say it's more of a hard mode.

Well.. FFT is drastically weighted toward the player; except for a few notorious storyline battles and one or two really annoying random setups, you can stomp through the game doing pretty much anything, and if you're willing to abuse certain mechanics nothing at all gives a challenge (97 Brave Ramza + Auto-potion, for example. Yell/Scream at yourself until your speed is giving you two turns to every enemy action, then Accumulate to nigh-infinite physical attack if you need to, then kill everything.) So balancing the game is basically going to mean making it harder, whether by removing or altering the most abusable skills and mechanics (1.3 does not let you permanently alter Brave/Faith, for example, and Yell casts Haste on the target instead of increasing Speed) or giving enemies more skills and more appropriate skills to play with.

Alaris

2011-10-19, 01:47 PM

While 1.3 says it 'balances the game', it also gives the enemies a lot more JP, appropriate to their level, and it's almost a different game entirely, with changes to some job (calculator).

I wouldn't say it 'balances the game', personally. I'd say it's more of a hard mode.

Yeah, it's sort of a Hard Mode patch in a sense, but FFT Vanilla is definitely geared towards player victory using most strategies, even bad ones. 1.3 makes the battles tipped more into a balanced favor, even sometimes in the enemy's favor, where you have to think up more clever strategies to win.

I'm currently doing a Let's Play on this series, so if you want to see all the changes in action, you can take a look, no charge. ^_^

My Final Fantasy Tactics 1.3 Let's Play (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB0444A353C565F9D&feature=viewall)

Cespenar

2011-10-19, 03:30 PM

Yeah, it's sort of a Hard Mode patch in a sense, but FFT Vanilla is definitely geared towards player victory using most strategies, even bad ones. 1.3 makes the battles tipped more into a balanced favor, even sometimes in the enemy's favor, where you have to think up more clever strategies to win.

I've been meaning to give 1.3 a try, but I hate grinding or other silly stuff like using 50x Accumulate and Yell in a battle to have a chance of winning. Do you have to rely on "tactics" like those to move forward, or does the mod give both you and AI equal opportunities, resulting in a more evenly matched scenarios?

nhbdy

2011-10-19, 03:55 PM

I've been meaning to give 1.3 a try, but I hate grinding or other silly stuff like using 50x Accumulate and Yell in a battle to have a chance of winning. Do you have to rely on "tactics" like those to move forward, or does the mod give both you and AI equal opportunities, resulting in a more evenly matched scenarios?

you do really have to think to win fights, the AI has an annoying tendancy to bounce back from certain defeat with super defensive tactics, so you have to know how to counter them, plus with the different moves and rebalanced classes, the AI will push a fairly decent offense when it can, and thus you need to do the defensive tactics well too. Of course I have limited experience with it, and just started playing with it myself, but it is a completely different game and is significantly more challenging, watch some videos to get a better feel.

Alaris

2011-10-19, 04:30 PM

I've been meaning to give 1.3 a try, but I hate grinding or other silly stuff like using 50x Accumulate and Yell in a battle to have a chance of winning. Do you have to rely on "tactics" like those to move forward, or does the mod give both you and AI equal opportunities, resulting in a more evenly matched scenarios?

*Nod* I hate those strategies too... which is exactly why I play FFT 1.3.

Grinding is actually something you DON'T want to do in 1.3. All enemies level with you, even story enemies. So grinding to be higher level than them will just make the game harder on you.

Accumulate has a charge time now, so... it's not exactly going to be too effective. It can help occasionally, but not often.

Yell doesn't boost speed anymore. It Gives the target Haste for like... an action, maybe 2.

You actually have to rely on tactics, to more of a degree than Vanilla Tactics, at least in my opinion, but you'd have to try it out for yourself. I recommend taking a look at the videos, see how some things have changed, or looking at the changelog at InsaneDifficulty.

If you're looking for a fun challenge, I recommend FFT 1.3.

Klorox

2011-10-21, 08:11 AM

one thing I've noticed, as I move into chapter 2, is how much I miss the chemist. I had two with me for the first half of chapter 1, and even for the second half, the former chemists (one a black mage, the other a white mage) had item as a secondary skill. Sure, I missed being able to throw potions, but at least I still had the ability.

As my builds get more complicated, healing becomes much more difficult!

I'm thinking about changing the character who was going down the white mage path (eventually aiming to learn all types of magick and then become an arithmetician) to go back to chemist for a while.

What skillset compliments the chemist best? I'm also thinking (I'm a chronic restarter) that a character who goes into Black Mage would make a great Chemist too. If s/he's not needed for throwing potions, s/he can be casting destructive spells.

What do y'all think?

EDIT: another reason I'm considering a reboot is because I don't like what I've done: I decided to fight a lot of random battles to really build my characters up, and now I find the main fights way too easy. My party is level 15-17, and my guests are level 9/10.

EDIT #2: When y'all build Ramza as a Squire (or Uber Squire), what's the best/most fun secondary skillset to build on him? I was thinking maybe going for Ninja so he can dual weild swords, but I really don't know much about the game.

TIA!

Hyudra

2011-10-21, 08:49 AM

I'm thinking about changing the character who was going down the white mage path (eventually aiming to learn all types of magick and then become an arithmetician) to go back to chemist for a while.

What skillset compliments the chemist best? I'm also thinking (I'm a chronic restarter) that a character who goes into Black Mage would make a great Chemist too. If s/he's not needed for throwing potions, s/he can be casting destructive spells.

Chemist stat growth doesn't really lend itself to being a mage. It's not as bad as some of the physical classes, but it's not top notch either. You'd suffer in the long run. I'd say consider Mediator for the utility, but that's fairly deep into the white mage branch of things. Depends on how much effort you want to put into it. Benefit is that as you got through white mage and oracle on the way to mediator, you'd still have some healing/support options.

All that said, I don't prioritize healing that high, personally. I've done some plays through the game with zero healing.

EDIT #2: When y'all build Ramza as a Squire (or Uber Squire), what's the best/most fun secondary skillset to build on him? I was thinking maybe going for Ninja so he can dual weild swords, but I really don't know much about the game.

TIA!

Ninja is a popular one, but again, it's fairly hard to reach, and I doubt you'd reach it before some of the more crucial battles with Ramza (like Weigraf/Velius). Monk is also popular, as it's got a lot of utility and raw offensive potential.

Cespenar

2011-10-21, 08:55 AM

EDIT #2: When y'all build Ramza as a Squire (or Uber Squire), what's the best/most fun secondary skillset to build on him? I was thinking maybe going for Ninja so he can dual weild swords, but I really don't know much about the game.

TIA!

Get Ninja's dual wielding, but use Monk as the second skillset. Monk is a rather fun class, with lots of options.

Klorox

2011-10-21, 11:04 AM

Thanks guys. I like the idea/feel of Squire/Monk/Ninja type for Ramza.

What is a common set up for the other three characters?

I'm not asking for specific builds here (but if you feel like giving them, feel free), I'm just interested in how y'all build your parties.

Do you get a super-wizard type who knows lots of different kinds of magery? Do you build tank types?

I guess I'm really looking for a good, balanced party going forward.

BTW, I was thinking of going with this as an early, chapter 1 strategy:

Ramza, Delita, one generic are Squires. Two generics are Chemists. I'll wait until the three Squires get the skill JP Boost. Once that happens, Ramza and the generic Squire unit will become Chemists. The two generic Chemists will become Squires at the same time and build towards the JP Boost skill. The next goals are going for Auto Potion and Move +1. After these goals are achieved, I'll start looking into other jobs. There is a part of me that is considering just having one of my early Chemists switching to Black Mage ASAP (meaning, right after Chemist level 2 is reached). Building into that class quickly would probably really help right away as well as in the long run.

As for Argath, well, he's a jerk. :smallmad: I'll keep him as a Squire or Chemist, depending on what skills I want others in my party building towards (extra skills for everybody, ect.).

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-21, 04:17 PM

I go with something like the following setups.

Ramza, Squire
Draw Out
Auto-potion/Abandon
Magic AttackUP
Move+2/Teleport

He's equipped with whatever raises his MA (Rune Sword, Flash Hat, etc.) and moves into the largest concentration of enemies he can reach before using a Draw Out skill. I've heard Summon as a secondary can be good too, but I like this better because it doesn't rely on faith and there's no chance of him running out of MP.

Agrias, Holy Knight
Punch Art
Auto-Potion
Martial Arts
Move+2

I know some people prefer making her a geomancer and giving her Holy Sword secondary, but I prefer this. Chakra, Stigma Magic, and Revive are all handy in a pinch and Earth Slash gives her some extra range.

Mustadio, Chemist
Snipe
Auto-potion
Equip Shield
Move +2

Doesn't do a lot of damage, but he's a great support character.

Those three can do pretty much everything by themselves, so other characters aren't all that necessary (but they are helpful.) Last time I had a priest with Punch Art and Martial Arts (the Robe of Lords and Mace of Zeus give a total of +4 PA, which isn't bad.) She wasn't doing much damage but she at least had something to do besides cast Regen when nobody was in desperate need of healing.

The other character I had kind of rotated, but once I got Meliadoul I gave her Throw and Concentrate and had her throwing duplicates of whatever knight sword she was using. Yes, it's technically cheating, but I think her swordskills should work against monsters anyway, so I used this to work around it.

Cespenar

2011-10-21, 05:14 PM

Hmm. If I recall my group correctly...

There was Ramza the Monk/Squire, who double-punches people into submission,
Some gal with Black Magic, Draw Out and Teleport, who teleports up to people's business and obliterate them,
Some guy who is a Geomancer/Ninja, dual wielding some heavy stuff,
Another guy with Summoning/Time Magic, overall handyman,
Agrias, Holy Knight/Monk, who is Agrias, and does Agrias-like stuff,
And Mustadio, Sniper/Knight, breaking Speed from half a mile away.

druid91

2011-10-21, 06:06 PM

I have a couple questions, If I give Mustadio Double sword, will he be able to wield two guns and thus shoot people more?

And two what are these fast JP gaining methods?

Cespenar

2011-10-22, 01:52 AM

When you push some button while viewing the weapons, it lists its properties. There it says whether or not a weapon can be dual wielded, two handed, etc.

Same window where it shows which weapon can be used by which class, IIRC.

tl;dr: Guns can't be dual wielded.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-22, 04:56 AM

There are five fast JP gain methods. Gained JP Up is mandatory for all of them but the first one.

1: Propositions. Unfortunately, only generic characters can do these.

2: Give the character Basic Skill secondary and have him Accumulate whenever his turn comes up. Obviously this doesn't work for special characters like Agrias since they don't have the Accumulate skill.

3: Remove the character's weapon, give them item secondary, and have them punch or use a potion a party member whenever their turn comes up.

4: Give the character Dance or Sing secondary and have them use that. The first two dances and songs (restore or damage MP or HP) are very fast, even if the only one that's really worth using in general is Angel Song (restores caster's MA + 20 MP to all party members.) These skills are great for JP grinding, though.

5: Sympathy JP. When you perform an action, every other living human unit on the field gets JP equal to 1/4th the amount the acting character gained for the job that character currently is, ally or enemy. Make all five characters the same job and you're basically doubling your JP growth. This works even for jobs the other characters haven't unlocked yet, which is why you sometimes have a job at level 2 or higher when you first unlock it.

Gained JP Up raises all JP earned (except sympathy JP) by 50%, but instead of the normal 1/4th the gained amount for everyone else, they only get 1/6th (lower relative number, same absolute number.)

Spatzist

2011-10-22, 11:00 PM

A humble suggestion: if you're going to be a monk for any decent length of time, try getting the Knight's passive 'equip armour' first. It opens up the headgear slot (normally restricted for the monk class), and gives them access to heavy armour, which does wonders for their durability earlier on in the game.

As was stated in previous posts, brave score is pretty important for monks, and can be raised through things like cheer (every 10 points you temporarily increase brave by gives the character one permanent point after the battle ends). It's also worth keeping in mind that Physical Attack score has a huge effect on the damage output of unarmed, so items that give a bonus to it are at the very least worth toying around with.

As for abilities, I'd go for Wave Fist first, followed by Counter, then (much later) Earth Slash. The rest is pretty much up to you.

When you push some button while viewing the weapons, it lists its properties. There it says whether or not a weapon can be dual wielded, two handed, etc.

Same window where it shows which weapon can be used by which class, IIRC.

tl;dr: Guns can't be dual wielded.

In my very first playthrough, I attempted to make a Neo-esque version of Mustadio, with speed+ items, a black robe (boosts elemental damage), and the two elemental guns. My 13-year-old self was crushed when he realized it couldn't be done. :smallfrown:

tyckspoon

2011-10-22, 11:08 PM

Spatzist

2011-10-22, 11:40 PM

I prefer Chakra and Revive as the first Monk abilities; Chakra is one of the few reliable ways to restore SP (and it doesn't require having Item on somebody past the point most of the rest of the items have lost usefulness) and combining it with Revive greatly reduces your dependence on having Chemists/White Mages/other dedicated healers on the field. Just have to keep an eye on terrain height so people don't die/need healing where you can't touch them, because the Monk abilities have no height range at all.

Chakra is often the second ability I get. It is awesome (especially the SP restoration), but I'd still get Wave Fist first. Avoiding monster counter-attacks by hitting them at range, still being able to deal damage if you fall just a few squares short of adjacent, and (sometimes) doing more damage than your regular standard attacks is really nice for just 300 JP.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-22, 11:53 PM

Wave Fist is pretty good, but I prefer to learn Earth Slash first. Haha! In the time it takes you to get close enough to use Wave Fist I can hit you with Earth Slash twice!

Anyway, I've been thinking about something lately: Is there ANY situation where Fly is superior to Teleport? They both basically give you Ignore Height for free in addition to being able to ignore obstacles, but Teleport lets you go through them, whereas with Fly you have to go around... which isn't a big deal MOST of the time, but it does come up on occasion (stuff like trees and bridges you have to go around, which uses up Move points.)

Silverraptor

2011-10-23, 12:34 AM

Does the Mediator's raise brave and faith abilities raise them permanently, or only for that fight? And is there any way to raise brave and faith?

Spatzist

2011-10-23, 12:42 AM

I prefer Chakra and Revive as the first Monk abilities ... Chakra is often the second ability I get. It is awesome (especially the SP restoration), but I'd still get Wave Fist first.Wave Fist is pretty good, but I prefer to learn Earth Slash first. Haha! In the time it takes you to get close enough to use Wave Fist I can hit you with Earth Slash twice!

All we need now is for someone to come in, and start espousing the virtues of an early Hamedo. :smallamused:
That said, I've never actually tried getting Earth Slash first- all those useful little abilities that cost half as much are just too tempting to splurge on.

Anyway, I've been thinking about something lately: Is there ANY situation where Fly is superior to Teleport? They both basically give you Ignore Height for free in addition to being able to ignore obstacles, but Teleport lets you go through them, whereas with Fly you have to go around... which isn't a big deal MOST of the time, but it does come up on occasion (stuff like trees and bridges you have to go around, which uses up Move points.)

Teleport > Fly pretty much universally, so far as I know. I only ever learned Fly once, just for the sake of having the Dancer class mastered, and it didn't impress me all that much. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a nice perk for Black Chocobo's.

Does the Mediator's raise brave and faith abilities raise them permanently, or only for that fight? And is there any way to raise brave and faith?
Every ten temporary points gained during a fight should get you one permanent point after the battle is over. Since brave maxes out at 100 (and attempts to raise it past that don't affect the permanent increase), it'll usually take a number of battles to get your permanent score to a decent number.
EDIT: Looking around, the ratio I listed might be off. It does still take a while to raise, though.

tyckspoon

2011-10-23, 12:45 AM

Does the Mediator's raise brave and faith abilities raise them permanently, or only for that fight? And is there any way to raise brave and faith?

I think it's 1 point out of every 5 remains as a permanent change. Brave can very easily be raised with Ramza's Cheer Up ability and dropped rapidly with an Oracle's Foxbird spell(or Beowulf's swordskill of the same effect.) Faith pretty much only can be changed with a Mediator, which makes changing Faith a much more annoying process.

All we need now is for someone to come in, and start espousing the virtues of an early Hamedo.

Well.. it *is* a really awesome counter ability. It's just really hard to justify saving that many JP when Punch Arts has so many other good abilities.

Silverraptor

2011-10-23, 12:53 AM

I think it's 1 point out of every 5 remains as a permanent change. Brave can very easily be raised with Ramza's Cheer Up ability and dropped rapidly with an Oracle's Foxbird spell(or Beowulf's swordskill of the same effect.) Faith pretty much only can be changed with a Mediator, which makes changing Faith a much more annoying process.

Well.. it *is* a really awesome counter ability. It's just really hard to justify saving that many JP when Punch Arts has so many other good abilities.

YES!!! THANK YOU!!!

Uh, I mean... Yay. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE&feature=related)

dgnslyr

2011-10-23, 01:23 AM

On the other hand, raising Faith is less of an issue when you can just math-skill Faith on everybody! :smallbiggrin:

Hyudra

2011-10-23, 08:58 AM

YES!!! THANK YOU!!!

Uh, I mean... Yay. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLTZctTG6cE&feature=related)

Just be aware that a unit with more than, I think, 97 brave/faith, or less than 3, may leave your party. Going on a holy pilgrimage, leaving to save the world themselves, or finding they're too scared to be adventurers.

dgnslyr

2011-10-23, 10:33 AM

This even applies to the secret character
Worker 8, who despite having perma-innocence and 0 Faith, still has an internally calculated Faith, so even he can go on a robo-pilgrimage to find God.

Spatzist

2011-10-23, 12:22 PM

Just be aware that a unit with more than, I think, 97 brave/faith, or less than 3, may leave your party. Going on a holy pilgrimage, leaving to save the world themselves, or finding they're too scared to be adventurers.

I'm pretty sure it's only high faith and/or low brave that cause them to leave the party (pacifism and cowardice, respectively). In general though, you don't want either stat to be in those areas- there's only two cases I can think of where you'd want your brave to be low, and a high faith can get you one-shotted by enemy mages, which isn't really worth the bonus to your spells.

Seerow

2011-10-23, 12:58 PM

dgnslyr

2011-10-23, 02:23 PM

Spatzist

2011-10-23, 02:41 PM

Low brave is good for a Move-Find Item monkey, though, because the chance of finding a rare item is equal to your brave as a percent, and you will want to get most of the rare items in the Deep Dungeon. Rafa does this well, because she naturally comes with a low brave score and is just about useless in combat anyways.

I would just bring in one of the generic party members whom I had at some point replaced with a unique. Cast chicken on them twice, cheer up twice, then go find your items.

dgnslyr

2011-10-23, 02:55 PM

tyckspoon

2011-10-23, 02:59 PM

But Rafa has low brave to start with, so she already has an advantage over your generics, who won't start with a brave lower than 40. Besides, she's even less useful in combat than a generic, because her special skill is worse than a Squire's ability set.

It's a modestly useful thing to do with her if you can't stand to dismiss the unique characters, but Brave is so easy to drop that the starting value doesn't really matter. Foxbird/Insult once and they'll be at about 30; do it again and they'll be at or very close to Chicken. Not a big deal.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-24, 01:16 AM

I'd like to point out it's 1 permanent for every 4, not every 5 or 10 as previously stated. This can be seen by the fact that the permanent max/min is 03/97 (since at that point you can't lose/gain another 4 in battle).

This is correct.

But yeah, high faith and low brave characters may randomly leave after a battle. I believe 94 faith is the highest safe point. And low brave you should just be avoiding regardless.

Partially correct. Leaving due to low Brave/high Faith is NOT random. If a character's permanent Brave goes below 5 or his permanent Faith goes above 95, THEN he will leave. You'll start getting warnings at 85 Faith and 15 Brave, which is annoying, but doesn't have any actual effect.

Although low Brave IS largely useless, unless you're using Move-Find Item, in which case you want it to be low.

On another note, I finished playing for maybe the tenth time the other day and I'm kind of looking for a challenge, but not anything ridiculous like a True Calculator SSCC (Solo Single Class Challenge.)

I'm thinking... probably going to go with GeoMonk females and "Red Mage" (priests with Black Magic secondary and limited spells learned) males, with Ramza as a Bard (for the whole "he's a great commander even though he's abandoned the aristocracy" thing.)

Hyudra

2011-10-24, 01:48 AM

What challenges have you done before, Shpadoinkle?

Triaxx

2011-10-25, 08:01 AM

I can think of a couple useful spots for Fly. In particular over Teleport. One is having it on Ramza at the Castle Gate. Suddenly Gaf is all by his lonesome, and we can proceed to apply an asskicking at our leisure.

The other is at the execution grounds, because a flying Archer can then hit all but a couple of squares on the map, by standing on the top of the Guillotine.

druid91

2011-10-25, 10:04 AM

krunchyfrogg

2011-10-25, 12:28 PM

Seerow

2011-10-25, 12:44 PM

I'm new to this game too.

Just to clarify, there is no drawback (other than treasure hunting) to a high brave, right?

And guys won't leave because of a high brave score, right?

I just want to make sure before I boost everybodies brave up real hig

Right. You want all your characters with high brave (move find-item really really isn't worth it).

Sir Swindle89

2011-10-25, 12:49 PM

I'm new to this game too.

Just to clarify, there is no drawback (other than treasure hunting) to a high brave, right?

And guys won't leave because of a high brave score, right?

I just want to make sure before I boost everybodies brave up real hig

People leave at 100faith or(/and very unlikely) <5brave.

I have done a lot of research and brave does not appear to increase damage taken so no there is no downside.

Alaris

2011-10-25, 11:03 PM

People leave at 100faith or(/and very unlikely) <5brave.

I have done a lot of research and brave does not appear to increase damage taken so no there is no downside.

Maximum Brave: 97
Minimum Brave: 6

Maximum Faith: 94
Minimum Faith: 3

If you have less than 6 Brave, your unit will leave the group, in fear of his life.
If you have more than 94 Faith, your unit will leave the group, in search of religion.

krunchyfrogg

2011-10-26, 08:35 AM

thanks alaris.

is there any way to permanently raise and lower all of these stats?

please spoil me. :D

Hyudra

2011-10-26, 10:01 AM

thanks alaris.

is there any way to permanently raise and lower all of these stats?

please spoil me. :D

Most basic way: When you start the game, strip your starting party (Ramza and delita excepted) of gear, sell the potions you'll never use (echo grass), and buy a complement of men/women with the brave/faith values you want. Depending on how specific you want to b, this could mean a lot of checking soldier stats, cancel, look for new soldier, etc. Base soldier stats range from 40 to 70. Physical classes tend to want high brave and low faith. Mages tend to want High brave and high faith.

Mediators: The mediator class is locked by getting sufficient job levels in Oracle, which in turn is unlocked with job levels in White Mage. Mediators have skills that increase/lower Brave and Faith.

Beowulf: Has Chicken, a sword skill that lowers the target's brave by a huge margin. More useful against enemies, as sufficiently low brave turns 90% of enemies into a chicken.

Story: Some of the story decisions you're asked to make will adjust your brave some. Example: Mandalia Plains battle, where you're asked if you want to save Algus or fight the Death Corps. Odd as it sounds, choosing the latter will give everyone in your party a brave boost, 1 or 2 points of which is permanent. Ditto for choosing to save Boco in chapter 2.

Every 4 points of temporary change to either stat will make for 1 point of permanent change. (ie. If you had faith lowered by 8 during the battle, it'll be 2 lower outside the battle).

krunchyfrogg

2011-10-26, 02:44 PM

Alaris

2011-10-26, 03:02 PM

thanx.
as long as i have faith scores about where i want them (<55 for my tank type, >66 for my spellchuckers), I'm happy. You get the ability to easily raise brave so early, i'm ok with lowish braves in chapter 1.

Yeah, the only problem with using Mediator to artificially raise brave/faith is that... well, the % is not 100. Depending on compatibility, you could have a really hard time getting their abilities to go off properly.

It's good to have a BALLPARK for each guy around what you want, and do some minor modifications throughout the game, to get them to be perfect.

tyckspoon

2011-10-26, 09:14 PM

Yeah, the only problem with using Mediator to artificially raise brave/faith is that... well, the % is not 100. Depending on compatibility, you could have a really hard time getting their abilities to go off properly.

Ramza can do Brave 100%. Faith is annoying, but you don't need it to work absolutely; your own team isn't going to kill you if you miss your ability. Just spam it until it works and lock down the last random enemy with Don't Act or Chicken him into a corner or something.

Klorox

2011-10-27, 08:59 AM

Does a high Brave really benefit magic users? I mean, I know it does on the rare occasion they smack somebody with a weapon, but that shouldn't happen often.

When I make characters, if they have a 70+ Faith starting, I don't even look at the Brave to determine if I'm going to use her.

When do you get to use the Guests as controllable characters? Earlier, it's suggested by someone to use Mustadio and Agrias, which I take it to mean they'll no longer be Guests.

Besides, Guests really piss me off when I'm trying to earn extra JP and wait for cool crystals and treasure chests, and they off the last bad guy before I can collect. :smallmad:

Seerow

2011-10-27, 09:51 AM

Does a high Brave really benefit magic users? I mean, I know it does on the rare occasion they smack somebody with a weapon, but that shouldn't happen often.

Brave only affects weapon damage for Knight Swords or unarmed. Any weapon that a magic user should be using doesn't include brave as a component.

But all reaction abilities have a brave% chance of activating, which means that yes Brave is 100% worth it for them despite this. Blade Grasp makes 97% of physical attacks simply not work against you with maxed brave, and that is nothing to scoff at.

As an aside, if you think mages should never use weapons, I'd recommend looking into trying a Rod sometime. The Rods have a 2 panel range and deal damage based off of MA, and typically making for a pretty solid hit. For Oracles this is pretty much their main offense since their skillset lacks a lot of damage options.

When do you get to use the Guests as controllable characters? Earlier, it's suggested by someone to use Mustadio and Agrias, which I take it to mean they'll no longer be Guests.

It happens automatically towards the end of chapter 2.

Klorox

2011-10-27, 10:57 AM

Dsurion

2011-10-27, 11:37 AM

I equip my mages with rods because it increases their elemental damage. I've never noticed an increase with Range though.

I am early in the game though:Gaffgarion (sp?) just switched sides on me and I met Delita and the Princess was just added to my party.I think Seerow is talking about what was called Sticks in the PS1 version. It's an Oracle weapon (Cypress Rod, Battle Bamboo, etc.), but I'm not sure if they changed the name for the PSP version.

As to the Princess, grab all of her equipment off of her right away; she isn't going to be in any battles. If nothing else, you can sell it.

Seerow

2011-10-27, 12:06 PM

I think Seerow is talking about what was called Sticks in the PS1 version. It's an Oracle weapon (Cypress Rod, Battle Bamboo, etc.), but I'm not sure if they changed the name for the PSP version.

As to the Princess, grab all of her equipment off of her right away; she isn't going to be in any battles. If nothing else, you can sell it.

Yeah you're right, I meant sticks. I was thinking of Cypress Rod, and I think one or two others were named rod as well, when I said it.

Hyudra

2011-10-27, 12:16 PM

My stab at a TrueCalc SCC gave me a great appreciation for sticks. Beautiful, beautiful sticks.

Seerow

2011-10-27, 12:20 PM

My stab at a TrueCalc SCC gave me a great appreciation for sticks. Beautiful, beautiful sticks.

What debilitating injury did the truecalc curse deliver to you before you quit?

Hyudra

2011-10-27, 12:24 PM

What debilitating injury did the truecalc curse deliver to you before you quit?

Gate of Lionel Castle, Ramza the slowpoke math nerd against Gafgarion.

Head -> Wall.

Alaris

2011-10-27, 03:44 PM

Gate of Lionel Castle, Ramza the slowpoke math nerd against Gafgarion.

Head -> Wall.

I salute you and your stubornness to even ATTEMPT a TrueCalec SCC. I could not brave such a challenge, it is beyond me.

Klorox

2011-10-28, 10:21 AM

What's a TrueCalc SCC?

When Agrias makes a sword technique attack, since she's not hitting the enemy with her own sword, does the actual sword she's wielding matter?

Seerow

2011-10-28, 10:22 AM

What's a TrueCalc SCC?

When Agrias makes a sword technique attack, since she's not hitting the enemy with her own sword, does the actual sword she's wielding matter?

Yes, the damage formula is PA*(WP+X) where X varies with the attack. WP is the weapon power.

Hyudra

2011-10-28, 10:27 AM

What's a TrueCalc SCC?

Well, you probably heard us mention SCCs earlier in the thread. That's where you've got 5 people as members of that class, using only that class' skills.

Thing is, when you get to calculator, the active abilities involve using other class' magic and applying it with Math Skill... which goes against the idea of the SCC, since you're not using only Calculator skills.

So to do a 'true' Calculator SCC, you can't use math skill. Which leaves you with a party of 5 mages with no magic and no sticks for most of chapters 1 and 2, meaning you're dealing single digit damage (ie. 2 damage at Dorter) for a good third of the game. Worst is your abysmal speed (Calculator is the slowest class in the game, with the worst speed growth); pretty much every enemy will get 2 turns of actions before you get one.

Widely considered to be one of the hardest challenges you can do in FFT, while still having a party of 5. It is technically doable. It's just... ridiculously hard. It requires knowing the game inside and out and often using some borderline exploits as far as making the enemy AI do what you need it to.

By contrast, a 'Crystal Calculator' SCC is where you can only use magic you learn from crystallized enemies (so you kill a wizard, he crystallizes, you grab crystal and learn the skills he knew). Naturally, you can't learn magic via. job points prior to entering the Calculator class.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-28, 12:18 PM

Yes, the damage formula is PA*(WP+X) where X varies with the attack. WP is the weapon power.

There's also the fact that swordskills are weapon-elemental, despite what the in-game descriptions say. Agrias using an Ice Brand will do ice-elemental damage with all of her swordskills, yes, even Lightning Stab. This can be beneficial if you're using 108 gems or a Black Robe or something, as it'll make her swordskills stronger. You can even get fire or air elemental swordskills by making her a ninja and giving her Equip Sword as her support ability and putting an Air Knife or Flame Whip in her top hand and a regular sword in the other- the sword lets her use her swordskills but the game will use the stats for the weapon in her top hand when if resolves the attack.

Silverraptor

2011-10-28, 12:25 PM

Hey, how do I increase the elemental damage from geomancers?

tyckspoon

2011-10-28, 12:51 PM

Hey, how do I increase the elemental damage from geomancers?

It's based on both mag and phys attack, so.. put PA+ stuff on females and MA+ stuff on males to even out the gender disparity. Otherwise, try to level your geomancers in high-physical-growth classes (Geomancer itself is not terrible for this, so you don't have to feel too bad about getting levels while farming the JP for abilities.) Not too much you can do about magic growth; use the Magic Attack Up support ability if you don't desperately need/prefer something else.

I don't know if Geomancer abilities actually are considered elemental attacks, and the most common ones that you'll use (Local Quake/Hell Ivy/Water Ball cover a large majority of fields, and then there's like 1 map that uses each of the other ones) don't have easily accessible boosting items. So it's mostly optimizing your attack values.

T.G. Oskar

2011-10-28, 12:58 PM

Hey, how do I increase the elemental damage from geomancers?

You have to raise both your Physical Attack and your Magic Attack. Their damage ratio is intentionally low (Physical Attack plus 2 times Magic Attack, multiplied by 0.5), so you'll need equally high modifiers.

The Bard's Magick Boost and the Dancer's Fury abilities both serve to slowly increase the damage dealt, as well as Accumulate (from a Squire), and having a Bard sing Battle Chant or Magickal Refrain also aids. Equipping a Headband (PA +2), Power Garb (PA +2), Bracers (PA +3) or Diamond Armlets (PA & MA +1) or Genji Gauntlets (PA & MA +2) and Dual-Wielding Runeblades (MA +2) also adds some decent damage. Then there's the elemental damage enhancers, but not sure which ones the Geomancers can use (Gaia Gear enhances Earth, which will increase the damage of most Geomancy powers; WotL has the Sage's Ring which works with all elements).

It'll still deal little damage (to do something decent you need to have PA and MA close to 20/25, in which case you deal 200-312 damage), but it's as most as you can go.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-28, 01:01 PM

Seerow

2011-10-28, 01:48 PM

The formula for Elemental's damage is [(PA + 2) / 2] * MA, so raising both has an effect, but raising MA has a bigger impact. Elemental will never do great damage, though. I've managed to get it up around 130 with end-game equipment, but by that time I could also use Draw Out to do around 600-700 damage. So... Elemental is nice when you're out of range to do something better or for picking off weak enemies, but that's about it.

The trick is to balance out your stats. The best option for a Geomancer is Ramza who has both male PA and female MA, and USquire for pretty solid well rounded stats. Unfortunately I can't find the chart I used to use for checking stats and dont have my PS hooked up to check stats, but iirc at max level he's got like 18PA and 16 MA as Usquire, or something like that.

You then use:
Mace of Zeus for +1 MA +2 PA (I think Usquire can wear this, if not Rune Blade +2 MA)
Aegis Shield for +1 MA
Headband for +2 PA (other option is only +1 MA)
Lordly Robe for +2 PA +1 MA
The Genji Gauntlet for +2 PA and +2 MA

Ends you with 21 MA and 26 PA. Add in MA Up gets you effective 28 MA and 26 PA, for 392 base damage with Elemental.

This is of course an optimal set using a special character and unique gear, so may not be optimal. Using less optimal gear probably drops that down as far as 300 base. But the real advantage of Geomancy is that it's unblockable, has good range, good AoE, and IIRC doesn't cost any mana. Not to mention the 25% chance of inflicting a status effect that will likely disable the target.

Triaxx

2011-10-28, 04:14 PM

Seerow

2011-10-28, 04:17 PM

I can only think of one person who's completed it, though I'm almost certain there are more. UltimaterializerX, who did an FAQ for it over on GameFAQ's.

Anyone else been insane enough to actually complete it?

I know that sqpat also completed it, and I'm 99% sure that Falc did as well.

All 3 of them incurred some injury while completing the SCC, which has lead to the ongoing joke of the truecalc curse.

edit:

As proof, from the Calculator Challenge Guide:

(From UltimaterializerX)
Q: Is it really true that you broke your foot because of this challenge?
A: Yep. The cast is still on my foot, in fact. I was rather happy over Balk
finally biting the dust, so I semi-jumped into the air, and it broke upon
landing. Funny as hell, personally, though it hurt like you wouldn`t believe
when it first happened.

(From Falc)
Q: Is it really true that you broke your foot because of this challenge?
A: Yes, I had a kidney stone and sprained left knee in separate incidents
while in the middle of Chapter 4.

sqpat never got his stuff updated into the guide, but he still hangs out in an IRC channel I know of, so I'll see if I can get info on the injury he got out of it.

Silverraptor

2011-10-30, 12:35 PM

So I made Ramza a samurai. Unfortunately, every ability is greyed out and says "Out of Stock". What does this mean and how can I use the abilities?

Also, what are the job requirements for dancers?

tyckspoon

2011-10-30, 12:48 PM

So I made Ramza a samurai. Unfortunately, every ability is greyed out and says "Out of Stock". What does this mean and how can I use the abilities?

Also, what are the job requirements for dancers?

Draw Out abilities require having at least one of the particular katana in your inventory. If you don't have any, you can't use it. IIRC the first time you can buy katanas is.. forgot the name of the place.. after the Machine City Goug sequence in Chapter 2, right before the Golgorand Execution Site/Lionel Castle sequence.

Cespenar

2011-10-30, 01:02 PM

Also, the Draw Out skills have a chance of breaking said katana on use, so take a bunch of them if you're planning to use Draw Out consistently.

Silverraptor

2011-10-30, 02:49 PM

Ah, okay. Thank you.

Gnoman

2011-10-30, 07:14 PM

I believe that many of the lower-level katanas are poachable as well.

Shpadoinkle

2011-10-30, 11:17 PM

I'm doing the "two female geomancer/monks and two male priests with black magic secondary" thing and I'm up to Barius Hill at the moment. Ramza's still a Summoner (I haven't unlocked bard yet.)

It's going alright. The generics on my team are at the moment learning the stuff I want from Wizard (Fire/Ice/Bolt 1, 2, and 3) and Monk (Wave Fist, Earth Slash, Stigma Magic, Chakra, Revive, Counter, and Martial Arts) before switching to their final classes of Geomancer and Priest.

It's really going to suck losing Ramza's summons in place of Sing, though, especially since my monks are only doing like 30 damage with Earth Slash....

krunchyfrogg

2011-10-31, 09:23 AM

Hyudra

2011-10-31, 10:45 AM

I read that the most powerful Black Mage spells can be learned by other BM's if the spell is cast on him.
Is this true? How does it work? Does the recipient need to avoid being KO'ed? Is learning the spell automatic?

The following spells can be learned via. 'Blue magic':
Ultima, on Ubersquire Ramza or Alma. Typically via. ultima demons or Celia/Lede.
-ja level black magic spells (Firaja/Thundaja) - On a black mage.
Zodiac - On a summoner

To learn it, you have to be in the requisite class, you need to get hit by it, and you need to survive it. I thought there was maybe a time magic spell as well, but could be wrong.

krunchyfrogg

2011-10-31, 04:00 PM

awesome!

So, as long as my black gages survive thunderaja, they'll automatically learn it?

dgnslyr

2011-10-31, 04:09 PM

Well, that assumes you find an enemy wizard who'll cast it. I don't ever remember seeing an enemy wizard cast it...

On the other hand, I guess you could cast it on an enemy wizard, and hope he'll cast it back at your, so you can save yourself some JP and only have to spend it once, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth, because high-level black magic is a bit underwhelming compared to, say, Draw Out for efficient magic-based damage, or Summons for massive AoE splatterage, or even Holy for a strong, fast, single-target nuke.

Draw-out and Math-skilled statuses or Holies are the only magic I use. The funniest thing about samurai is that wizards use the Draw-out command far better at using it because of higher MA.

Gnoman

2011-10-31, 04:39 PM

I've successfully learned a Fire 4 spell by casting it on my own mage once. The learn chance seems to be pretty low, and the target has to take damage (so no Fire Shield) and not die.

dgnslyr

2011-10-31, 04:43 PM

Well, if you're having trouble surviving, you could put on a White Robe for the elemental resistance, and cast it from a low-MA job like knight or dragoon.

I never knew you could learn it from your own wizards because I've never used the -aja spells, and the only spell I did learn through blue magic was Zodiac, which I've never actually cast myself. I think you can teach it to other, enemy summoners by hitting them with it, and then hope they'll cast it and teach your own guys or that it'll be left over when they crystalize. Even then, you'd need to do some serious set up with faith-lowering on both sides, and probably casting from a low-MA job.

Cespenar

2011-11-01, 02:18 PM

Pfeh. Did a little incursion on the fabled 1.3 version, and quickly understood that it's not made for people like me. Oh well. I can always watch the Let's Plays, I guess.

Alaris

2011-11-01, 10:21 PM

Pfeh. Did a little incursion on the fabled 1.3 version, and quickly understood that it's not made for people like me. Oh well. I can always watch the Let's Plays, I guess.

I take it that it destroyed your face then?

Cespenar

2011-11-02, 04:29 AM

I take it that it destroyed your face then?

Thoroughly.

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-02, 10:33 PM

dgnslyr

2011-11-02, 10:36 PM

Give your wizard the draw-out command. It's got hilariously good multipliers, and has no MP costs or charge time to boot. Normally, it's balanced by physical jobs having crap MA stats, but stick it on a wizard and watch the magic happen. Sure, high-tier spells may hit harder, but those are finicky and dependent on faith and have a delay and there's all sorts of things that could go wrong, but a storm of damned spirits to the face cares about none of those. Also, Teleport is probably the best movement command, because it's like Fly and Movement +3 in one neat, convenient package. Teleporting wizard-samurai go go go!

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-02, 10:37 PM

(sorry, phone has a limited # of characters)

Generic #2 is going for Dark Knight. Stats are in the high 60's, and since Brave is easier to raise than Faith, I decided to make this one more muscle than magic.
Generic # is a chemist, and will remain so

Hyudra

2011-11-02, 10:38 PM

I've decided to really concentrate on ERamza and 2 generics. Ramza is going the Monk/Ninja/Squire w/ Teleportation route.

Generic #1 is a female with brave & faith over 70 at the start (wow!)She's going to be my main spellchucker.

(crappy phone)

Brave and Faith don't go over 70 at the time of character creation. Simply not possible to go above 70 or below 40.

What probably happened was that you got a generic with ~70 brave and 70 faith, then you took the "I must defeat the death corps" option at Mandalia, which gives you a boost to Brave (some of which is permanent).

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-02, 10:39 PM

#3 will be crystallized when she's no longer needed (chap 2), and one of Argrias' Knights will be getting a lot of skills (hopefully). I'm not sure how to build generic #3, or if I'll even use her when I get good Uniques.

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-08, 10:33 AM

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-08, 10:35 AM

Also, if you could have your druthers in building a "perfect" Dark Knight, would it be male or female, and have a high or low Faith (I"know this was covered slightly earlier by somebody else)?

tyckspoon

2011-11-08, 10:49 AM

How many of the starting generics do you guys use long term?

I'm wondering if I should really be building them up, or if I'll just end up replacing them all later anyway (in which case I won't worry too much)

(sorry, phone limits characters)

Unique characters can't go on Propositions. You also don't get a lot of uniques until like halfway through chapter 4 (PSX standard, anyway; I think you get a few more a bit sooner in War of the Lions?) so you'll need some good generics to get you through most of the game. Between those two factors it's worthwhile to hold on to a decent number of generic units; I've got.. I think 8 in my current playthrough.

That said, the *starting* generics have nothing special about them. Usually you'll want to fire any that are too unsuitable for their jobs and use the soldier office to recruit some with better brave/faith/gender (and Zodiac sign compatibility if you're going full optimization) matches for their intended jobs.

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-08, 03:55 PM

Thanks. Which Zodiac signs are best for which jobs?

Seerow

2011-11-08, 03:57 PM

Thanks. Which Zodiac signs are best for which jobs?

Zodiac signs have nothing to do with jobs. They matter more for inter-party compatibility, and when doing challenges can matter for matching up in a certain way with specific bosses.

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-18, 05:34 PM

Gnoman

2011-11-18, 06:44 PM

I usually have a (nearly) full party, using the members with lower levels in battles to keep an even power level. Relying on insanely overpowered uniques is just lazy.

Alaris

2011-11-18, 06:49 PM

When y'all get deep into the game, how many generica do you typically stick with, amd how many guests?

I like to stick with 3 characters I start with:
Ramza (Monk/Ninja/Squire)
F Gen: Arithmetician
F Gen: Dark Knight

In 1.3, I use a full party of Generics, since Specials were brought more in-line with them, both with abilities and growths. Sword Skills being evadable/etc.

In Standard:

Ramza - Ubersquire/Varies OR Calculator (Lolwin)
Agrias - Holy Knight/Chemist
Meliadoul - Divine Knight/Dancer
Orlandu - Holy Swordsman/Monk
Worker 8 - Steel Giant/NOTHING!

In War of the Lions (PSP), exchange any and all classes with DARK KNIGHT for insta-win.

Terry576

2011-11-21, 08:36 AM

My Chapter 2-3 party is usually:

Ramza: ArmorMonk>NinjaMonk

FGeneric1: Chemist>Wizard>Time Mage>Teleport Draw Out Wizard

FGeneric2: Chemist>Priest>Time Mage Summoner>Priest Calculator

Agrias: Holy Knight>Knight>Monk>Geomancer>Attack Up Holy Knight

MGeneric: Chemist>Knight>Gun Breaking Chemist

And Chapter 4 turns into:

Ramza: Ubersquire Javelin2
FGen1 (Lily de Floure): Wizard/Draw Out
FGen2 (Madoka Meguca): Priest (Or Oracle, Or Wizard)/Calculate
Agrias: Holy Knight Attack Up.
Beowulf: Being Beowulf.

WOTG of course throws all this out the window, what with the 2x enemy levels and such. So one character (usually 2 or 3) has item to heal the silly ones who die. :smalltongue:

I dislike DK in WoTL because it takes so long to unlock. :smallannoyed: It has like fourty bajillion requirements. Also because Agrias does the DK job better than the DK could ever hope to do.

I prefer a full party of generics because I go for Zodiac optimal settings. Capricorn Ramza with a Taurus and a Virgo, and Ramza can suddenly own half the bosses in the game with no effort.

krunchyfrogg

2011-11-23, 06:33 PM

Thanks for all the help guys!

Hyudra: I have no reason to lie: 4 of my generics have a stat over 70!!

krunchyfrogg

2011-12-16, 01:07 PM

Hey guys, sorry to bump this up, but I'm really trying to put together a very effective party of Ramza + females (for their awesome items!!). Any and all help is welcome, as well as any comments from y’all.

Please let me know how this party looks:

Ramza
Brave: 97 - Faith: 97
Class: Squire
Secondary: Arithmeticks
Reaction: Shirahadori
Support: Arcane Defense
Move: Teleport

Basic butt-kicking Ramza build. I'd consider White Mage instead of Arithmeticks just so I could target units more easily, but it isn't really a problem. I think you can make so many offensive machine builds, but nobody pulls off super-support (to keep them alive) like Ramza.

Treasure Hunter - Generic Female
Brave 11 - Faith 3
Class: Ninja
Secondary: Dance
Reaction: Vanish
Support: unsure
Movement: Treasure Hunter

Treasure hunting Dancer, turns invisible after first hit and her dance will still hit all the enemies (as long as she doesn't take any other actions). Ninja has great speed and move/jump rates, since I can't use Teleport. She'll spend the first chapter initially as a Chemist, after gaining Throw Item and High Potions, she'll go towards Archer then Thief, and I won't lower her stats until the second chapter. I also need her to spend time as an Orator, to alter everybody's stats and to Entice a pig for breeding and poaching.

Agrias
Brave 97 - Faith 3
Class: Holy Knight
Secondary: Darkness
Reaction: Shirahadori or Reflexes
Support: Vehemence or Safeguard
Movement: Teleport

You just can't kill this tank!! Building her towards Dark Knight sounds like so much fun, even if I never actually get there. :D Many of the other characters will wait to take levels in certain classes so Agrias will benefit from spillover JP while minimizing the annoying (but needed) grinding for this build.

Spellchucker - Generic Female
Brave 97 - Faith 84
Class: Summoner
Secondary: Arithmeticks
Reaction: Shirahadori
Support: Swiftness
Movement: Teleport

She'll get every spell that can be cast using Arithmeticks before settling into the Summoner class. Summoner just provides this character with an additional type of magick.

Stealer - Generic Female
Brave 97 - Faith 3
Class: Ninja (Monk)
Secondary: Steal
Reaction: Shirahadori
Support: Brawler (Dual Wield)
Movement: Teleport

Speed, Steal & Fight. There’s a few different ways to build this one. Although a stealer needs speed, and Ninjas are the fastest, I want to avoid using the same sprite as my Treasure Hunter. On a similar note, I know that a Ninja with Brawler will out-damage a Monk with Dual Wield (at least, that’s what I’ve read, I never actually tested this out). The parenthesis offer a different variation of the same character. Going with the Monk gives this character some variation in her abilities, which is really nice. Another option is to use the original build idea, and just make this one a Male for a different sprite.

I really like this party. Each character has both a ranged and a melee attack. It’s pretty powerful, as well as pretty balanced.

Considerations:
I could use that 5th Generic Character spot (who is used in the first battle and the second to last in Chapter 1 IIRC) to build towards the Orator, instead of having my Treasure Hunter build towards that (it’s really “out of her way” build-wise if you look at it). I’ll just use him/her when able to in Chapter 1, and for the short time I’m able in Chapter 2 after getting the ability to use 5 characters but not having Agrias yet.

Alternatively, is there a different character that should build towards Orator above? Any of them (other than Agrias, who’s grinding will ONLY build towards Dark Knight) could do it, but I’m trying to find the character who’s stats will be least affected. I’m kind of thinking it should be Ramza.