Druid spell that can blow up a city.

[Otherworld Odd]

I've heard of this spell that TECHNICALLY says you can blow up a city because you can explode (or something) a piece of rock with "at least" a certain amount of weight. However, I can't find nor remember this spell. x_x. Helps?

[Jarian]

Rockburst, I believe. Shining South.

[Cog]

You cause a stone object, with a volume of at least 8 cubic feet, to explode.
There's no upper limit in the body of the spell's text, and a city is generally bigger than 8 cubic feet. That reading ignores both the spell's Range (medium) and Area (20' radius), so this doesn't actually work.

[Ravens_cry]

If you want to go all Eco Terrorist, Earthquake (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm) is actually designed to do this, though its area is still fairly limited. I am sure the optimizers on the board can make it bigger.

[Otherworld Odd]

Oh, I wasn't planning on using it at all. I would assume that there would be reasonable limits and blowing up anything outside the range and such as the above person said would apply.


I just mentioned the spell to a friend and he wanted to see what it was but I couldn't remember the book or name for the life of me.


But now that you guys are talking about it, I suddenly got the urge to play a character like that in an evil campaign. :smalleek: :smallamused:

[hamishspence]

Erupt in Serpent Kingdoms has a large area of effect (scaling with level) and large damage- but it has Touch range. So you want heavy-duty fire resistance or immunity before you cast it.

I think it's a Druid/Cleric spell.

[Amnestic]

There's no upper limit in the body of the spell's text, and a city is generally bigger than 8 cubic feet. That reading ignores both the spell's Range (medium) and Area (20' radius), so this doesn't actually work.

You cause a stone object of at least 8 cubic feet in volume (eg. tectonic plate) to explode. Rock shards fly out from the detonation and all creatures within the (20') area take 1d4+1/CL (max 15) damage, Reflex halves.

You probably want to be flying, mind, but I do believe strictly RAW reading lets you blow up a tectonic plate with the spell - though the explosion itself will only do damage to anyone within 20' of the impact.

[Cog]

You cause a stone object of at least 8 cubic feet in volume (eg. tectonic plate)...
Rockburst is not a Target or an Effect spell; it is an Area spell. To determine what it can affect, you have to look at its Area entry; otherwise you're just making things up. On top of that:

A spell’s range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the Range entry of the spell description. A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur...
Even if you ignored the Area of the spell, the Range still limits you to less than a tectonic plate.

[Gullintanni]

Rockburst is not a Target or an Effect spell; it is an Area spell. To determine what it can affect, you have to look at its Area entry; otherwise you're just making things up. On top of that:

Even if you ignored the Area of the spell, the Range still limits you to less than a tectonic plate.

Even were this not the case, good luck getting line of effect to a tectonic plate.

[Keld Denar]

Control Winds is the generally perscribed druidic WMD. 2 castings in a row will allow you to turn a nice sunny day into a horrific malestorm of wind and death. The DMG's description of the damage caused by a tornado is pretty damning to any but the hardiest stone structures.

[FMArthur]

There is of course Apocalypse From the Sky, a 9th level spell from BoVD that sacrifices any artifact for 10d6 damage to everything in an incredibly large radius. You could use Uncanny Forethought or something to bring its 1-day cast time to a single full-round action, but you could also try to get it to cast without the component via Dweomerkeeper or something. It's not as fun as some others perhaps, because blowing up a country is already its intended usage.

It's Corrupt magic, so while it is not technically a Druid spell, Druids can certainly cast it without shenanigans. Indeed, Druids may be the best for it since they're likely to be Wildshaped into forms with 19 or more Constitution, thus being guaranteed to survive its 3d6 Constitution damage.

[Cog]

Even were this not the case, good luck getting line of effect to a tectonic plate.
I'd actually have to disagree on that one. If the clothing on a humanoid doesn't make them any more difficult to target, then neither should the layer of earth on a tectonic plate. Even barring that, a mountain or such will do the trick.

[adecoy95]

is locate city a druid spell?

The principle of the thing is to start with a spell that has an extremely large area of effect (such as locate city), give it the cold descriptor with the snowcasting feat, make it deal damage with the flash frost spell feat, make it offer a reflex save with the born of three thunders feat, then make it blow everything to kingdom come with the explosive spell feat.

The build challenge to this combo is that snowcasting is not a metamagic feat, and is therefore applied only when the spell is cast, so even by fairly dodgy RAI, the only class that could pull this is off is a spontaneous caster with four fairly sub-optimal feats and a suboptimal level 1 spell slot.

The practical obstacle to executing this combo cleanly is that explosive spell requires a spell that allows a reflex save and affects an area, and to deal truly devastating damage, the area must be very very large...hundreds of yards at a minimum, and tens of miles would be better. No spells fit that description, so it's generally necessary to start with a really big spell and use metamagic to shoehorn the spell into meeting the requirements for the explosive spell feat.

this was posted by jiriku

there are other ways to do it too, there is a fell drain metamagic feat in the libris mortis that would go nicely with the frost damage. be creative :smallsmile:

[Cog]

is locate city a druid spell?

The principle of the thing is to start with a spell that has an extremely large area of effect (such as locate city), give it the cold descriptor with the snowcasting feat, make it deal damage with the flash frost spell feat, make it offer a reflex save with the born of three thunders feat, then make it blow everything to kingdom come with the explosive spell feat.

The build challenge to this combo is that snowcasting is not a metamagic feat, and is therefore applied only when the spell is cast, so even by fairly dodgy RAI, the only class that could pull this is off is a spontaneous caster with four fairly sub-optimal feats and a suboptimal level 1 spell slot.

The practical obstacle to executing this combo cleanly is that explosive spell requires a spell that allows a reflex save and affects an area, and to deal truly devastating damage, the area must be very very large...hundreds of yards at a minimum, and tens of miles would be better. No spells fit that description, so it's generally necessary to start with a really big spell and use metamagic to shoehorn the spell into meeting the requirements for the explosive spell feat.

this was posted by jiriku

there are other ways to do it too, there is a fell drain metamagic feat in the libris mortis that would go nicely with the frost damage. be creative :smallsmile:

Irrelevant, as the Locate City bomb doesn't work. Flash Frost requires a spell that affects an area, and a snowcast Locate City does nothing to affect its area (outside of bringing in Quantum Mechanics, and even then it's not clear if divinations actually directly observe their targets in the sense required for that reading).

[Newt]

Erupt in Serpent Kingdoms has a large area of effect (scaling with level) and large damage- but it has Touch range. So you want heavy-duty fire resistance or immunity before you cast it.

I think it's a Druid/Cleric spell.

You could also phase out to the Astral Plane. Ethereal means not dying to a bomb. And there's a feat or skill trick somewhere allowing touch to become 5ft range.

Edited to say, couldn't you just go epic?

Not epic levels, but epic spells. Circle magic can be done by Hathrans(?), Red Wizards and a few others. Leadership should give you a few acolytes, now capture yourself a mage and geas them into casting the spell using your acolytes. If you really wanted to be evil, then geas them all. Nothing like mesmerized villagers casting a spell to destroy their homes. ^ ^

There was a trick to bring casting time down to a round, making geas/quest usable on someone. Uncanny Forethought in Exemplars of Evil. "Alternatively, as a full round action, you can use a reserved slot to cast any spell you know." CL is reduced by two, but you can up that again easily enough. Find a Mindbender class and away you go.

In case my knowledge of circle magic is wrong (insomniac, memory ain't what it used to be), each acolyte gives you a bonus on the Spellcraft DC to cast the spell. So 100 level 5 acolytes giving you each a level three spell would reduce the DC by.. Some mathematical equation. Reasonable though. Hogwarts wasn't using it's students effectively anyway, time to show them what real magic is.

[gomipile]

There is of course Apocalypse From the Sky, a 9th level spell from BoVD that sacrifices any artifact for 10d6 damage to everything in an incredibly large radius. You could use Uncanny Forethought or something to bring its 1-day cast time to a single full-round action, but you could also try to get it to cast without the component via Dweomerkeeper or something. It's not as fun as some others perhaps, because blowing up a country is already its intended usage.

It's Corrupt magic, so while it is not technically a Druid spell, Druids can certainly cast it without shenanigans. Indeed, Druids may be the best for it since they're likely to be Wildshaped into forms with 19 or more Constitution, thus being guaranteed to survive its 3d6 Constitution damage.


I was under the impression that druids use their own constitution score in wild shape form now?

Edit: nevermind. Their own Con grants them HP, but they get the animal form's Con for purposes of ability damage and whatnot. You are correct.

[Ernir]

Not as absolute as the options already mentioned, but the Blizzard spell (Frostburn) can certainly bury a small town...

The Volcano spell from Sandstorm is pretty stylish too, but that's epic.

[Warlawk]

Not as absolute as the options already mentioned, but the Blizzard spell (Frostburn) can certainly bury a small town...


Beat me to it.
100 foot radius per caster level, 1 foot of snow each round with a duration of 1 round/caster level. Since it's level 5 that's a bare minimum of 9 feet of snow. Any town that is in a temperate area is pretty much going to get flattened by 9 feet of snow in under a minute. Higher level caster, and the widen and extend metamagics just get ridiculous fast. Whoever wrote the spell has no idea how snow works in real life.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Isn't there also a cleric or durid spell that essentially brings down a comet to deal damage?

And I am sure I saw a spell that drops a freaking ICEBERG on the target.

Is it me, or the divine caster's get the best WMD spells?:smallconfused: (barrig shenanigans such as Locate city bomb)

[Veyr]

Isn't there also a cleric or durid spell that essentially brings down a comet to deal damage?
Well, there is Meteor Swarm which effectively does that, no? There was a cold version, Comet Swarm or something.

[druid91]

Beat me to it.
100 foot radius per caster level, 1 foot of snow each round with a duration of 1 round/caster level. Since it's level 5 that's a bare minimum of 9 feet of snow. Any town that is in a temperate area is pretty much going to get flattened by 9 feet of snow in under a minute. Higher level caster, and the widen and extend metamagics just get ridiculous fast. Whoever wrote the spell has no idea how snow works in real life.

And if you really want to be mean... Tack Flashfrost on there.

Then follow it up with fimbulwinter.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well, there is Meteor Swarm which effectively does that, no? There was a cold version, Comet Swarm or something.

Yeah maybe I am confused..meh

[NineThePuma]

Isn't there also a cleric or durid spell that essentially brings down a comet to deal damage?

So Sephiroth was a Cleric?


That... actually explains a lot :smalleek:

[Cog]

Isn't there also a cleric or durid spell that essentially brings down a comet to deal damage?
Cometfall, from the Spell Compendium, is on both lists.

[faceroll]

I'd actually have to disagree on that one. If the clothing on a humanoid doesn't make them any more difficult to target, then neither should the layer of earth on a tectonic plate. Even barring that, a mountain or such will do the trick.

Isn't attended gear on a creature is specifically called out in the rules as to be part of the creature for the purpose of targeting spells?

[Cog]

Isn't attended gear on a creature is specifically called out in the rules as to be part of the creature for the purpose of targeting spells?
It's possible it's listed elsewhere, but a search for "line of effect" on the SRD didn't turn up anything like that. You might be thinking of the exception listed for tower shields used as total cover?

[mabriss lethe]

shadowcraft mage cheese can let a character spam Apocalypse from the Sky....

[faceroll]

It's possible it's listed elsewhere, but a search for "line of effect" on the SRD didn't turn up anything like that. You might be thinking of the exception listed for tower shields used as total cover?

That might be it.

[Volos]

If you want to go all Eco Terrorist, Earthquake (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/earthquake.htm) is actually designed to do this, though its area is still fairly limited. I am sure the optimizers on the board can make it bigger.

Divine Metamagic Persist Earthquake Anyone?

[Ravens_cry]

From what I understand, Persist would not work on Earthquake. Someone with books should make sure though.

[Volos]

From what I understand, Persist would not work on Earthquake. Someone with books should make sure though.

You are correct, it needs a range of personal. Can't believe I missed that.

[LordBlades]

You are correct, it needs a range of personal. Can't believe I missed that.

Does Occular Spell work to turn it in a fixed range spell and therefore persistable?

[faceroll]

Does Occular Spell work to turn it in a fixed range spell and therefore persistable?

Spellwarp Sniper may also do the same.

[Gullintanni]

I'd actually have to disagree on that one. If the clothing on a humanoid doesn't make them any more difficult to target, then neither should the layer of earth on a tectonic plate. Even barring that, a mountain or such will do the trick.

Clothing doesn't deny line of effect because it doesn't obscure visibility of the subject. You're clearly aware, when looking at a clothed creature, that there is in fact a distinct, identifiable creature in front of you. Clothing also doesn't generally obscure the entirety of the subject. There are usually (but not always) exposed bits of flesh to render the actual subject visible.

In order to target a tectonic plate, you would have to see through hundreds or thousands of miles of earth and dirt. If your definition of "Line of Effect" allows for targeting of an object obscured by such distances and through such obstacles as the ground itself, then I suspect your games of DnD degenerate fairly quickly.

Targeting an entire mountain is equally difficult. Mountains are generally not composed of a single contiguous body of stone, but rather, are layered over with dirt and other sediment. Certainly some mountains in more arid parts of the world are exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking, mountains themselves are not entirely uniform. You could make a case for a mountain being targetable, but as a sensible DM, you could easily rule that the composition of the mountains in your world was such that Rockburst abuse was impossible.

Given that Rockburst is a 2nd level spell, and that there is no RAW for determining the consistency and makeup of the planet and its elements, it makes sense to limit Rockburst according to the general makeup of the world.

...YMMV. DM as you will.

[Cog]

Ocular Spell modifies a spell into a ray that may only affect a single creature. Nothing prevents you from applying it, but the result would be entirely useless.


Clothing doesn't deny line of effect because it doesn't obscure visibility of the subject. You're clearly aware, when looking at a clothed creature, that there is in fact a distinct, identifiable creature in front of you. Clothing also doesn't generally obscure the entirety of the subject. There are usually (but not always) exposed bits of flesh to render the actual subject visible.
If targeting somebody depends on them having a little skin exposed, you'd think that would be mentioned. Desert-style garb would seem to become rather more common, as well. No, gear is simply irrelevant.

In order to target a tectonic plate, you would have to see through hundreds or thousands of miles of earth and dirt.
By all the information I'm finding, it's often not even a hundred miles to the bottom of a tectonic plate. The depth to bedrock seems to be within hundreds of feet in many cases. I see little reason to just make up numbers in defense of your argument.

If your definition of "Line of Effect" allows for targeting of an object obscured by such distances and through such obstacles as the ground itself, then I suspect your games of DnD degenerate fairly quickly.
I'm not saying it's through the ground at all; I'm saying the ground counts as part of it. Perhaps a closer analogy would be the layer of dead skin cells on a person - no longer alive, poorly integrated, but still effectively part of the creature. As for how I'd run an actual game, I already pointed out why this doesn't let Rockburst work, and most object-targeting spells have size limits of their own built in. If I came across one that didn't, I would quite happily houserule otherwise, but the ease with which I would do so has no bearing on the RAW, and the RAW is what's being discussed here.

Targeting an entire mountain is equally difficult. Mountains are generally not composed of a single contiguous body of stone, but rather, are layered over with dirt and other sediment. Certainly some mountains in more arid parts of the world are exceptions to this rule, but generally speaking, mountains themselves are not entirely uniform.
Ah, but by your own logic, if there's even a little bit of inner rock showing between that sediment, you're free to target it.

You could make a case for a mountain being targetable, but as a sensible DM, you could easily rule that the composition of the mountains in your world was such that Rockburst abuse was impossible.
Rockburst abuse is already impossible. I myself pointed out why. Yes, a DM can easily rule otherwise, but if that's the answer to every question, then this forum would become very boring very quickly.

[Crow]

Control Weather and Control Wind are pretty much all you need.

[Gullintanni]

1. By all the information I'm finding, it's often not even a hundred miles to the bottom of a tectonic plate. The depth to bedrock seems to be within hundreds of feet in many cases. I see little reason to just make up numbers in defense of your argument.

2. I'm not saying it's through the ground at all; I'm saying the ground counts as part of it. Perhaps a closer analogy would be the layer of dead skin cells on a person - no longer alive, poorly integrated, but still effectively part of the creature. As for how I'd run an actual game, I already pointed out why this doesn't let Rockburst work, and most object-targeting spells have size limits of their own built in. If I came across one that didn't, I would quite happily houserule otherwise, but the ease with which I would do so has no bearing on the RAW, and the RAW is what's being discussed here.

3. Ah, but by your own logic, if there's even a little bit of inner rock showing between that sediment, you're free to target it.


1. From Wikipedia: "The continental crust is the layer of igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks which form the continents and the areas of shallow seabed close to their shores...Consisting mostly of granitic rock, continental crust has a density of about 2.7g/cm3 and is less dense than the material of the Earth's mantle, which consists of mafic rock. Continental crust is also less dense than oceanic crust, though it is considerably thicker; mostly 25 to 70 km versus the average oceanic thickness of around 7–10 km. About 40% of the Earth's surface is now underlain by continental crust. [1] Continental crust makes up about 70% of the volume of Earth's crust. [2]"

The continental crust is a layer of sediment that lies at the top of the lithosphere. Tectonic plates exist beneath this layer which most research points out is between 20 and 100kms thick depending on your source. The tectonic plates nearest to the surface reside at the upper mantle, beneath the continental crust...so you can't just dig a hole or target a rock facing showing on the earth's surface and expect the tectonic plate to blow.

2. The problem with this is that ground =/= tectonic plate. In fact, the ground is most commonly DIRT. Dirt =/= rock, and therefore, in most places, Rockburst doesn't even work on the ground you're standing on. Per my reference above, unless any rock you find in your travels stretches 20KM+ into the ground, the rock in question won't even have contact with the plate, much less form a part of it.

3. Again, that inner rock showing through would have to be minimum 20KM deep in the ground.

[Cog]

1. You are making a false distinction between the crust and the tectonic plates.
The tectonic plates are composed of two types of lithosphere: thicker continental and thin oceanic. The upper part is called the crust...

2. I've not suggested there isn't earth atop the tectonic plates, so that's irrelevant to my point. Rockburst itself is as well; I'm merely discussing targeting a tectonic plate in the general sense. Most spells capable of targeting objects have area, range, weight, or volume limitations that prevent this; I'm not aware of any that don't, though my knowledge there is admittedly lacking. If anybody is aware of a spell without such limits, I'd like to know, though solely for curiosity's sake.

3. Mountains are generally formed by the uplift of plates at their collisions or by the deposit of volcanic rock upon other rock. From what I can tell, they are usually continuous with the rock below, yes. Mountains don't simply sit on top of the dirt layer.

[NineThePuma]

This has gotten a little off topic...

[Cog]

How is discussing what it takes to blow big things up not on the topic of blowing big things up?

[NineThePuma]

You're arguing Tectonic Plate dynamics?

[Cog]

As applied to the ending of civilizations and the cities thereof, yes. Rockburst is the spell that started this entire thread, after all. A city surely doesn't count as a single object, so you have to find the nearest one of a suitable size. Given basic real-world geology (which of course may or may not apply), that means discussing tectonic plates.

[NineThePuma]

And who says that 'real world' geology applies to the campaign setting? For all we know, the world is only 50 ft deep and everything over that is a single giant flat plane. :P

[Cog]

And who says that 'real world' geology applies to the campaign setting? For all we know, the world is only 50 ft deep and everything over that is a single giant flat plane. :P
Given basic real-world geology (which of course may or may not apply)...
Gee, I hadn't thought of that. But, okay. From now now, my posts will instead assume the planet is made of green cheese. After all, for all we know, DnD worlds are!

You have to start somewhere. Just as the RAW is the only shared starting position we have for interpreting the rules, the real world is the only shared starting point we have for the game world.

[NineThePuma]

But you're operating under the assumption of "Real World Logic" to enable cheese. Cheese that will likely destroy half the planet.

[Cog]

Please go back and read what I've actually posted in this thread. I've said that I think there are other limits in place stopping spells from being used in this manner, I've pointed out why Rockburst itself certainly doesn't work, I've stated that my interest is out of curiosity, and I've said if there was an example of a spell that got around those limits I'd happily houserule otherwise.

Also, keep in mind that if there aren't tectonic plates, it's quite likely that what's left is a singular object instead. The plate assumption reduces the resulting damage of this hypothetical spell.

[Otherworld Odd]

Either way, I think that if you could blow up a tectonic plate or even a city with Rockburst, there are a whole lot more unwritten rules that go with it. The damage from the spell probably won't kill much but the environmental effects surely will. >.>. This all calls for the DM to say "You can't do that" or "Pelor smites you in the face. You die. Reroll a fighter." o__o;


Anyways, what are some really cool ideas for say a Druid (or ex-druid more likely) that is against the environment? Destroying land, causing environmental havoc, etc. Would a cleric be better for it? Of course there's Blighter, but that gives you five dead levels.

[sreservoir]

Either way, I think that if you could blow up a tectonic plate or even a city with Rockburst, there are a whole lot more unwritten rules that go with it. The damage from the spell probably won't kill much but the environmental effects surely will. >.>. This all calls for the DM to say "You can't do that" or "Pelor smites you in the face. You die. Reroll a fighter." o__o;


Anyways, what are some really cool ideas for say a Druid (or ex-druid more likely) that is against the environment? Destroying land, causing environmental havoc, etc. Would a cleric be better for it? Of course there's Blighter, but that gives you five dead levels.

with versatile spellcaster and either earth spell or sanctum spell, you can get into blighter with only one actual druid level. but keep in mind that rockburst isn't on the blighter spell list.

[Otherworld Odd]

with versatile spellcaster and either earth spell or sanctum spell, you can get into blighter with only one actual druid level. but keep in mind that rockburst isn't on the blighter spell list.

I'm perfectly okay with no rockburst. I think environmental effects like control wind, earthquake, etc would function well.

[Newt]

I'm perfectly okay with no rockburst. I think environmental effects like control wind, earthquake, etc would function well.

Planar Druid? No, it isn't called that.. Planar Shepard? <> Prestige class anyway.
Can be used for such cheese as a Timestop equivalent but it's 10 rounds per everyone else's 1, and you can effect them. Try something like opening a portal to the plane of fire. Continuously. Within a 10ft radius. Tele into the middle of an Elven forest and Blighter's got nothing on you. :P

Actually fire's boring, maybe acid, negative energy or the far realm.

[Telok]

Control Weather (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/controlWeather.htm) will do just fine. Druids get it with a 3 mile radius and an 8d12 hour duration. Metamagic Extend, Empower, and Maximize will all increase the duration. Using all three should get you ten days of your favourite weather.

A week of torrential rains, hurricane winds, heavy snow, thunder storms, or tornadoes, will pretty well trash a city.

A tornado (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/weather.htm#tornadoWind) at 250' a round for over a week in a 3 mile radius area will destroy a small city very nicely.